Duncan sounds off on the dress code

Dressed down: Although Duncan didn't play Tuesday, he didn't have to worry about borrowing a sport coat before the game because the NBA's new dress code doesn't go into effect until the start of the regular season.

Players will be allowed to wear "dress jeans" and a collared shirt or sweater to and from the arena, but they must put on a sport coat if they are sitting near the bench and not in uniform.

Duncan wore his typical injured-list wardrobe: jeans and a dress shirt, though an NBA spokesman at Tuesday's game said he would have to tuck in his shirt during the regular season.

What does Duncan think about the dress code?

"I think it's a load of crap," Duncan said. "I understand what they're trying to do with the hats and do-rags and jerseys and stuff. That's fine. But I don't understand why they would take it to this level. I think it's basically retarded.

"I don't like the direction they're going, but who am I?"

Duncan said he might choose to stay in the locker room on nights he isn't playing.

Players also will not be allowed to wear "large chains, pendants or medallions" over their clothes when they enter an arena.

"I have no problem dressing up (business) casual because I know I'm a nice-looking guy," Indiana guard Stephen Jackson said. "But as far as chains, I definitely feel that's a racial statement. Almost 100 percent of the guys in the league who are young and black wear big chains. So I definitely don't agree with that at all."

Asked what he thought about the dress code, Popovich, who attended the Air Force Academy, said: "I don't think about dress codes much now. I did that when I was a cadet."

Said Ginobili: "I can understand the point of why they did it. The thing is there's always a gray area. Are these dress shoes? Are these jeans nice?

"I know many of the players won't like it because it's not what they do. But at least it's not what they thought it was going to be, like jackets all the time and suits.

http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/b....130a449f.html

I guess all those people who thought Duncan was going to be quiet about it are wrong.
:)

Wait, wait, wait.

Stay in the lockerroom???!!!

Now Duncan is overreacting to this. It's not like you have to wear it for 8 hours. I'm very disappointed in Duncan's reaction on this, especially taking into account his stature in the League.

I'd expect that from Iverson, but not from Duncan.

We're talking about clothes. Suck it up already.

Tim Duncan posses a level of Confidence and Power that can only be dreamt of.

Quote:

---

What does Duncan think about the dress code?

"I think it's a load of crap," Duncan said. "I understand what they're trying to do with the hats and do-rags and jerseys and stuff. That's fine. But I don't understand why they would take it to this level. I think it's basically retarded.

"I don't like the direction they're going, but who am I?"

Duncan said he might choose to stay in the locker room on nights he isn't playing.

---

i'm speechless

I am very disappointed that Duncan isn't cooperating.

gee it must be a tough life getting paid millions to play ball and then being told to wear a suit.......im still ticked off about Camby's comments, its crazy that some of these stars just won't accept it.

Its good the NBA is getting more professional, Rugby Union players wear suits alot and its a good refelction on the game. Nothing wrong with wanting the players to look professional off the court/field..........

Rugby League players on the other hand, they look dodgy and casual all the time and it also refelcts on them. Alot of them have no respect for rules etc, they just think they are God's gift to fans and it couldnt be further from the truth

I agree. As long as the dress code is reasonable, just do it. I got to a public high school in TN, and they just recently adopted a new stringent dress code. Here are some details:
-shirts must be tucked in
-no logos bigger than a quater
-no stripes on pants
-no jackets can be worn inside

Remember now, this is a high school. Instead of complaining, I just follow the rules. Its really not bad a all after awhile. Its not like NBA player can't afford new clothes

everyone who's ever had to comply with a dress code knows it's bullshit. it just get's tiresome. and then you realize it's fucking pointless. how in the fuck does the sport of basketball benefit from the players' attire? f stern. he's just trying to de-gorrillafy the nba. it won't work. i don't care how you're dressed, when you get arrested for weed possesion/fighting/violating gun laws/whatever, you're still a piece of shit animal. your attire makes no difference.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by pkulonghorn

everyone who's ever had to compy with a dress code knows it's bullshit. it just get's tiesome. and then you realize it's fucking pointless. how in the fuck does the sport of basketball benefit from the players' attire? f stern.

---

They just want a better image.

It's not like professional dress in the US is limited to suit and tie for men nowadays.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Marcus Bryant

It's not like professional dress in the US is limited to suit and tie for men nowadays.

---

Yeah, and that's why the NBA isn't forcing players to wear them. Just something nice.

Well, the NBA is forcing players to 'dress up' while most of professional America is dressing down. I mean, if you can wear shorts and sandals to a white collar job, who cares what some athletes wear to a game? I know I don't.

Go Timmy.

I am a bit suprised Timmy actually spoke out but then when a crap BS rule like this is made , you've got to speak up.

IMO, i don't think there is any survey associated with this rule. It's a bunch of crap cocked up by NBA to target a particular section and saying "dressing like them is evil" and "dressing like us is sane".

I am sorry but NBA seems to be communicating the message "Dressing determines professionalism" which is totally wrong. It's just happened that a bunch of corporates started it that way and it's wrong to think that it should be the baseline for other professionals.

There will be customer visits in my company as well and they seem to okay with me dressing jeans and t-shirt.
NBA officials job is to take NBA to the corporate world to generate money - let them go with the dress code which is appealing to the business people.
Players job is to show up good performance on the court and relate to fans off of it with their attitude. Kids will be more happy to see Duncan dressing like a guy who is out on shopping rather than dress up like a guy going to an office.

We need a Battle Blog on this.

A ban on players speaking publicly would go much further than a dress code in helping the league's image.

Just to be clear, I meant speaking about anything at all. This certainly includes shitty rap albums and commercials.

Basically, the NBA just don't want the hip-hop look.

Basically they're trying to cover up the "thugness" factor brought onto the League by the Incident in Detroit.

We all know that jeans = hip hop music

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HB22inSA

Basically they're trying to cover up the "thugness" factor brought onto the League by the Incident in Detroit.

---

"thugness" comes from dressing baggy or do-rag? That's 100% BS.

Howb't well dressed Enron mgmt being thugs?

Duncan is being a baby. If you want the title of professional then act professionaly. Almost all of us have an aspect of our job we don't like very much.

Quote:

---

If you want the title of professional then act professionaly.

---

He does act professionally. He just doesn't want to dress "professionally" for the business world when he's a basketball player.

He's not just a basketball player. Being a member of a team in the NBA goes much farther than that. A lot of the NBA is marketing, and marketing is all about image. Most professional workplaces have a simple dress code that you must ahere to.

I could really go either way on the dress code. I'm not a big fan but I don't think it is a bad idea either. I do, however, think Duncan's threat to stay in the locker room is bullshit. He cashes an NBA check why can't he adhere to NBA policy?

But I really don't want to see him in street clothes at all this year - dressed up or not. :lol

I have one question. It says that when players are leaving the arena that the players can wear neat warmup suits issued by the team but they can't wear athletic shoes. So they need to wear dress shoes with them? :lmao

Some details need ironing out.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MannyIsGod

Duncan is being a baby. If you want the title of professional then act professionaly. Almost all of us have an aspect of our job we don't like very much.

---

First, he's a basketball player. Professionalism is defined by how he plays basketball. Nobody gives a fuck what he wears. And as for "Almost all of us have an aspect of our job we don't like very much," well, almost all of us aren't the best basketball player in the world. So you're comparison eats this guy's choad: :elephant

Quote:

---

A lot of the NBA is marketing, and marketing is all about image.

---

I get that.

But I don't see how Iverson in a suit will fool anyone into think that he's never broken the law or been involved in any thuggish activities.

And I don't see how Duncan in jeans, a button down shirt and Timberlands tarnishes his image.

Is the corporate America that they are marketing to so easily fooled by clothing?

And I believe that some players have in their endorsement contracts with shoe companies that they must wear their shoes/apparel at media, publicity events. So now the players will be breaching their endorsement contracts by wearing dress shoes, etc.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MannyIsGod

He's not just a basketball player. Being a member of a team in the NBA goes much farther than that. A lot of the NBA is marketing, and marketing is all about image. Most professional workplaces have a simple dress code that you must ahere to.

I could really go either way on the dress code. I'm not a big fan but I don't think it is a bad idea either. I do, however, think Duncan's threat to stay in the locker room is bullshit. He cashes an NBA check why can't he adhere to NBA policy?

But I really don't want to see him in street clothes at all this year - dressed up or not. :lol

---

Okay, now that I've seen this. Marketing is not in fact all about image. It's all about fulfilling the existing need or desire of a consumer in the most effiecient way, which in this case is the desire to watch an oustanding b-ball player ruin the competition's shit. Also most workplaces do in fact have a dress code. in the NBA it's a FUCKING UNIFORM. If I remove my suit jacket on the way to my car, and my boss says some shit to me, I staple his weiner to his throat. That NBA players should just deal with it is boiled varmit.

Your last point actually makes a little bit of sense. The NBA is a company that pays its employees, so TD has to comply, or else he faces a fine. He's simply stating that, between these two choices he'll (maybe--we don't know yet) take the fine. His money, his choice.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kori Ellis

I have one question. It says that when players are leaving the arena that the players can wear neat warmup suits issued by the team but they can't wear athletic shoes. So they need to wear dress shoes with them? :lmao

Some details need ironing out.

---

:lol Wingtips and warmups. Nice. It'll be like that old Jordan commercial.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by pkulonghorn

Okay, now that I've seen this. Marketing is not in fact all about image. It's all about fulfilling the existing need or desire of a consumer in the most effiecient way, which in this case is the desire to watch an oustanding b-ball player ruin the competition's shit. Also most workplaces do in fact have a dress code. in the NBA it's a FUCKING UNIFORM. If I remove my suit jacket on the way to my car, and my boss says some shit to me, I staple his weiner to his throat. That NBA players should just deal with it is boiled varmit.

Your last point actually makes a little bit of sense. The NBA is a company that pays its employees, so TD has to comply, or else he faces a fine. He's simply stating that, between these two choices he'll (maybe--we don't know yet) take the fine. His money, his choice.

---

How many marketing positions have you held? I've held one for a fortune 500 company and there are many things that go into the image of a business you are not taking into consideration.

But, go ahead and staple your weiner to your throat. If my boss is signing over checks worth 8 million a year I take a small portion of that and buy a jacket, tuck in my shirt, and check my medalion in my locker.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kori Ellis

I get that.

But I don't see how Iverson in a suit will fool anyone into think that he's never broken the law or been involved in any thuggish activities.

And I don't see how Duncan in jeans, a button down shirt and Timberlands tarnishes his image.

Is the corporate America that they are marketing to so easily fooled by clothing?

---

Absolutely. If the general public weren't mindless drones who fall for subliminal marketing tricks I'd see no value in this. But the fact is they do.

America - and maybe the rest of the world too - forms perception off of the most shallow of things. I can definetly see players dressing in this manner making a difference.

Quote:

---

check my medalion in my locker.

---

Not in your locker. In your CAR. No medallions, t-shirts, sneakers, or anything else to and from your car. :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kori Ellis

And I believe that some players have in their endorsement contracts with shoe companies that they must wear their shoes/apparel at media, publicity events. So now the players will be breaching their endorsement contracts by wearing dress shoes, etc.

---

Interesting. I wonder how that is going to work out.

The new Adidas Duncan Loafer?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kori Ellis

Not in your locker. In your CAR. No medallions, t-shirts, sneakers, or anything else to and from your car. :)

---

:lol

Some car theif that jacks Jax is going to be rich then. :lol

Quote:

---

I can definetly see players dressing in this manner making a difference.

---

Making a difference how? You actually think they'll get more money from this? Or you think the minds of corporate execs will just be more at ease because they think there's no 'gangstas' in the NBA.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by pkulonghorn

First, he's a basketball player. Professionalism is defined by how he plays basketball. Nobody gives a fuck what he wears. And as for "Almost all of us have an aspect of our job we don't like very much," well, almost all of us aren't the best basketball player in the world. So you're comparison eats this guy's choad: :elephant

---

ROFL!!!

I'd make a point of wearing the scummiest suits I could find in the dodgiests op shops.

:lol

Seriously thought Kori raises a good point about the endorsements. Some players are getting paid a hell of a lot to waer a certain shoe/shirt to media after the game. I wouldnt want to forgo that so I could wear clothes that apparently have to power to elevate Iverson to sainthood.

Ray Lewis could start wearing suits every day but it wouldnt change the fact that he killed 2 people

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kori Ellis

Making a difference how? You actually think they'll get more money from this? Or you think the minds of corporate execs will just be more at ease because they think there's no 'gangstas' in the NBA.

---

I think in the long run this will generate more money for the NBA. If from nothing else, satisfying sponsors who want the "thug" image gone. But I think it generaly improves the perception people have about the NBA.

I wonder if there were focus groups and studies that were factored into this decision. Perhaps there were specific sponsors putting a lot of pressure on Stern to make something happen. Or perhaps Stern just gets a woody from enacting his authority.

You think players will ever be sponsored by suit companies.

Starting at PF and dressed by Armani - TIM DUNCAN!

Its not about making any specific player look like a Saint. Yeah, no one is going to all of a sudden fall in love with Iverson because he wears a nice suit, but it goes way beyond a small group. Its about improving the image of the entire NBA product.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MannyIsGod

I think in the long run this will generate more money for the NBA. If from nothing else, satisfying sponsors who want the "thug" image gone. But I think it generaly improves the perception people have about the NBA.

I wonder if there were focus groups and studies that were factored into this decision. Perhaps there were specific sponsors putting a lot of pressure on Stern to make something happen. Or perhaps Stern just gets a woody from enacting his authority.

---

I think the sponsors will not rest until each black players skin is painted white.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cant_Be_Faded

I think the sponsors will not rest until each black players skin is painted white.

---

You're right about that. If sponsors could have it their way they'd rather not have black people in the NBA.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by xcoriate

You think players will ever be sponsored by suit companies.

Starting at PF and dressed by Armani - TIM DUNCAN!

---

I know this was a joke, but..

If I was in the NBA, I'd have my agent knocking on those doors.

What did Jim Rome have to say about this subject?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MannyIsGod

I wonder if there were focus groups and studies that were factored into this decision. Perhaps there were specific sponsors putting a lot of pressure on Stern to make something happen. Or perhaps Stern just gets a woody from enacting his authority.

---

IMO it's the latter case. Stern is getting too dictatorial.

What does a player risk if he doesn't respect the dress code?

If it is only about money, I am convinced this dress code will not be respected.

A company will sponsor a guy and ask him to wear hip-hop suits and gold chains. "Reebook... I am what I am". Same thing Jordan/Nike did with the air jordan colors about 20years ago.

The NBA is a company and a multi billion dollar a year business. Every other business of that stature has stringent dress codes for all work engagements. I dont lile the way the NBA went about it but there is no arguing with it. It is their business and IMO the image does need to be cleaned up.

War on the ground (pacers-pistons), rape stories, drug affairs and so on, degrade NBA image much more than a gold chain. You can't suspect Duncan or Nash of being bad boys! Let them live and dress as they want.

Finally, with the actual lack of great stars/personalities in the league, I don't think it is a good idea to create this dress code. I don't want to see the league as a clone army.

If you look at fashion industry you can buy baggy army pants for like 300 $ or jeans for 700$. or you can get a chep suit from 130$.It's not about money or suit... the issue is personal freedom. I think we should be proud of Timmy.

Screw each and every one of you who spews about how right it is the players have do this but are too hypocritical to say anything about the owners.

I think this is a very good read (as most of Cuban's blogs are). He explains a lot about how the dress code came about and a lot of other interworkings of his team/the league. This thread isn't for bashing of Cuban or the Mavs. (Or correcting Cuban's typos). I just thought it was a nice read that you all might be interested in.
http://www.blogmaverick.com/

The NBA Dress Code
Posted Oct 18, 2005, 5:03 PM ET

Im sure most people think I would be against a dress code of any kind in the NBA. Im not. I think every team should have the option of having one , or not. Every team has an image that it wants to present to its community and its customers, and that image should be cultivated on a proactive, rather than a reactive basis.

I also understand completely why Commish Stern felt the need to establish a dress code. Contrary to popular belief, the dress code wasnt in response to a problem with any players, it was in response to problems with owners.

Unfortunately we have gotten to the point where some, but not all, owners, or which ever executive is in charge of the team, have lost the ability to communicate with their players. In a nutshell, they dont talk to their players. Communication is a slap on the back if they see them after the game or at a team function. Communication might be a message via the General Manager asking him to sign something for a son or daughter of a friend. Its sad, but true.

Its awful hard to get to know a player if you have never spent any time with them. Thats not to say that every owner has to be best friends with the players, or the President of the team has to go out to dinner with them every week. But what does have to happen is that someone who represents the business side of the team has to be able to sit and talk to players and do their best to get to know the player at least a little bit. Only then can they come to an understanding of whats expected or needed from the player and by the player from the team.

Its amazing to me that this is really only a problem in professional sports. In “regular” business, even on the business side of the Mavs, I am very confident that I can trust my managers to maintain relationships with all of our employees. When there is a corporate initiative, we know how to work through any trouble spots and to learn as an organization how to overcome problems, whether internal or external.

Those skills dont exist everywhere in the NBA. For many teams, I dont even want to say most teams, if the team wants to try something different , they are truly afraid of how their players, particularly their stars might respond. Its the teams that are afraid of their players that forced David Stern into creating a Dress Code for players.

Its funny how the media likes to talk about the fundamentals of the players on the court being lacking, the real lack of fundamentals is in the teams’ executive suites. When a team is unable or afraid to communicate their message or iniative to their front office or players, or when they know they have a problem they are afraid or unable to deal with, they ask the Commissioner to create a league wide edict. This is a convenient out for the teams. Its not their fault that the players have to do this, its the league’s fault. To the Commissioners credit, he knows he can easily take the hit for something so simple in concept.

Unfortunately there isnt much the league can do to legislate against lousy team management. Its there and its not going anywhere. But as in any business, the business is only as strong as it weakest link.

Which takes us back to the dress code.

The league requires each team to do a business of basketball presentation. They give us a nice little powerpoint to work from. Its pretty good, but I prefer to have as open a discussion about the business of the Mavs and the league as I can.

For our meeting last week, I went over the basic economics of the team. All the way down to money we make from the arena, money I get from other sources and the tax benefit i get from the operating loss the Mavs show. I offered to sit down and go through the books in detail with any of them. As I have in the past with some of them.

I went through the economics of the amnesty from the luxury tax and why we did what we did with Fin.

Then we had the important discussion. We talked about how critical the relationship each of them has with our fans and our advertisers. That their financial success was directly related to our ability to connect to the people who pay our bills, the fans and our corporate customers.

We then discussed how that led to the upcoming dress code. I explained that a couple corporate customers of the league (this isnt a problem with our Mavs corporate customers) were uncomfortable with the appearance of some players. That unfortunately, in those cities, they didnt feel comfortable having a discussion like this and that their ownership didnt feel comfortable asking those players to work with the teams for the best of the league. Since the teams couldnt deal with it, they had asked the league to step in and deal with it.

At that point several players asked questions about what I thought the dress code would be. I told them that I was pretty sure that the league would prevent any jewelry being worn on the outside of clothing, but that beyond that it would be business casual attire. But not suits or sportcoats. I asked everyone if they were ok with that. To a man, every single one shook their head ok.

Then Josh Howard spoke up with a great idea. Why not go to a fashion designer that specializes in nicer clothes and ask them to work with us. Kind of give us a designer look that the team could adopt. We do it with sneakers, uniforms and workout gear, why not for this. Everyone would be watching, so it woudl be a great marketing opportunity for everyone. He threw out some names and all the guys were voicing their approval. So they put me on a mission. Hopefully I can come through. (Feel free to email me if you are a designer in case the current deal falls through :)

Then I asked the guys if they would be willing to spend an extra few minutes before every game, home and on the road signing some autographs. Jason Terry was all over the idea. He wanted specially made JET wristbands to hand out. Some guys wanted to be able to sign pictures in advance and hand them out right when they went out to shootaround so they could stay as close to their normal routine as possible. I was cool with that. Again, to a man, with Dirk and Stack and JET being the impetus they all got behind it

We discussed that the more we did as a team to establish a Dallas Mavericks identity, not only would it be better business for them and the team, but it also meant that the we could control our own destiny. That as the team that set the example, we could do things that we liked, rather than waiting for the league to tell us what to do.

The funny thing about the signing is that for our first 3 preseason games on the road, our guys signed pictures at the hotel, took pictures and sharpees in hand and went out on the court to hand them out. (yes, we want to do this on the road and at home). Unfortunately there was hardly anyone at those games 75 to 90 minutes before tipoff, so there were some lucky fans who got lots of signed pictures. We still have some fine tuning of the program to do, and there will never be enough time to make every fan happy, but I think its going to work out great.

But now I am here in Dallas and the guys are in Detroit. Im sure im going to hear about the sports coat thing. Hopefully the designers we are talking to have a line of sports coats. Or better yet, I will be able to show the league the Mavs dress code, and they will be fine with it. Thats going to be my job.

The reality is that sports coats on the bench sounds good, but its not a good idea. The league knows i feel this way. A minimum salary rookie makes more money than most of America, and we all have to buy our own clothes for work, but not many of us have to have specially tailored clothes because we are 6’8. Those arent cheap.

Not many of us have to work in an environment where what we where to work every day is going to be shown on TV, and now because of this dress code, commented on and discussed. Its going to be awful expensive for minimum contract players. And what are they going to do about the NBDL ? Sports coats there as well ?

While the lack of management skills may be the underlying problem that led to the dress code, its the inevitable discussion of the dress code by the media that makes it a wrong place, wrong time mistake.

Will the media in their “Lets talk about the easiest thing to talk about” approach, talk about anything other than the dress code for the forseeable future ?

I have already gotten more interview requests about this than i have about players, teams, games , entertainment or anything related to the product we put on the floor. This is ALL we are going to hear about for months.

How many cameras are going to be pointed to the bench area and not the floor when regular season games start ? how many plays are going to be missed in game as commentary goes on about what a player is wearing. And then as players get hurt durnig the year, every time its the first time out of uniform for a player, there is going to be a fashion watch.

Think it will be over by April ? Not a chance. Some reporter will be there with this question “A.I. , I know its April and the playoffs start in 2 weeks, but this is your first trip to our fair city. What do you think about the dress code”. Lets all hope that A.I. gives us a “Dress Code…. Dress Code.. its the playoffs around the corner and all you can talk about is a Dress Code ..” Hurt ‘em Answer.

But wait , there is more.

To compound the problem, when they probably thought they were going to mitigate it, the crack marketing team at the NBA puts out the release for what is unquestionably the best program the NBA has EVER introduced on the same day as the dress code is released.

The NBA CARES global out reach initiative. $100 Million Dollars to charity. 1 MILLION HOURS of hands on service by players for charitable causes. Its absolutely , positively brilliant. The first thing the NBA has done where I sat there and asked myself why I hadnt thought of it first and suggested it. Its an amazing program that had it been released without all this dress code nonsense, would have gotten loads of great coverage. Coverage that would have gone a long way towards helping those few sponsors who dont understand, that the NBA has great guys who really do care.

So why in the world release it today ? What is going to be written about tomorrow, the dress code or NBA Cares ?

In the questions I have gotten today, it was asked as a single … and oh yeah, what do you think about NBA CARES..by ONE reporter. Thats it. And what is talk radio talking about.. The Dress Code with all the speculation about whether racism or some other nefarious logic is behind it. Just what we dont need.

We have the worlds greatest game. The worlds best athletes. The most entertaining product in person and on TV. We are 2 weeks before the start of the season. What is everyone talking about ?

And finally, Im sure people will ask what Im going to wear to our games. Well I would consider wearing a sports coat, but i dont own one. So i guess the only way I would buy one would be if I could cover it with logo ads from sponsors. A lot of logo ads from sponsors. Think the 1 million dollar homepage covered. Feel free to post any and all bids in the comments section

Or maybe Ill just wear a speedo.. With a Mavs logo and an MFFL shirt of course

I liked this article....here are some excepts with my thoughts to go along with the text....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kori Ellis

Then Josh Howard spoke up with a great idea. Why not go to a fashion designer that specializes in nicer clothes and ask them to work with us. Kind of give us a designer look that the team could adopt. We do it with sneakers, uniforms and workout gear, why not for this.

Armani anyone?

The reality is that sports coats on the bench sounds good, but its not a good idea. The league knows i feel this way. A minimum salary rookie makes more money than most of America, and we all have to buy our own clothes for work, but not many of us have to have specially tailored clothes because we are 6’8. Those arent cheap.

Not many of us have to work in an environment where what we where to work every day is going to be shown on TV, and now because of this dress code, commented on and discussed. Its going to be awful expensive for minimum contract players. And what are they going to do about the NBDL ? Sports coats there as well ?

Good Point

While the lack of management skills may be the underlying problem that led to the dress code...

Quite Possible

How many cameras are going to be pointed to the bench area and not the floor when regular season games start ? how many plays are going to be missed in game as commentary goes on about what a player is wearing. And then as players get hurt durnig the year, every time its the first time out of uniform for a player, there is going to be a fashion watch.

Visions of Joan Rivers and her daughter are popping in my head., commenting on Fab or Drab...

But wait , there is more.

To compound the problem, when they probably thought they were going to mitigate it, the crack marketing team at the NBA puts out the release for what is unquestionably the best program the NBA has EVER introduced on the same day as the dress code is released.

The NBA CARES global out reach initiative. $100 Million Dollars to charity. 1 MILLION HOURS of hands on service by players for charitable causes. Its absolutely , positively brilliant.

LOVE IT

... Im sure people will ask what Im going to wear to our games. Well I would consider wearing a sports coat, but i dont own one. So i guess the only way I would buy one would be if I could cover it with logo ads from sponsors. A lot of logo ads from sponsors. Think the 1 million dollar homepage covered. Feel free to post any and all bids in the comments section

Or maybe Ill just wear a speedo.. With a Mavs logo and an MFFL shirt of course

Now THAT is gonna give me nightmares

---

Not a fantastic post from me...but then again it is almost 6am.... :lol

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by usckk

Basically, the NBA just don't want the hip-hop look.

---

I have to agree with that, and ask one question: who the fuck does the NBA think buys most of their shit? Hip hop has made NBA merchandising absolutely EXPLODE over the last 10-15 years.

Manny, I kind of agree with you, but if you have a problem with a dress code, you can always got to another more casual company. As MB says, they are out there. The NBA players don't have that option.

Kori - any word on penalties yet? Monetary or possibly suspensions?

I wonder what Stern would do if EVERY player ignored this, or even dressed down, showing up for interviews in baggy jeans, jerseys, sandals and sunglasses?

meh, good read.

Say what you will Cuban knows whats going on.

^
Here I thought he was some rich, dumb jackass....But it appears he has a brain and uses it.

Great Blog.

I wish NBA Execs could be more transparent as Cuban is. At least try to sell what outcome NBA is expecting out of this dress code issue - fans deserve to know the logic behind all these.

Pathetic Owners. If you can't run your business with authority, then get the hell out of it rather than jacking up to Stern to solve your problems.

NBA CARES is truly a great initiative and it's sad NBA just offsetted ths positive thing with the dumb dress code enforcement.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RashoFan

^
Here I thought he was some rich, dumb jackass....But it appears he has a brain and uses it.

---

Mark has always been an intelligent businessman. He is the one who has guts to stand up and speak if Stern and the NBA are imposing stupid rules. True some times he acts like a jack, but most owners don't even connect with players and fans.

His blogs are truly awesome - Recently I liked his blogs on the decision to cut fin, katrina relief, investing in stock markets etc.

Tim is just protesting for his own rights on his own way, its not like there werent any dress codes before, but now they are just stupid and he is prepared to show that by not complying and staying in locker room. Its the matter of personal choice, which is taken away from the players and i think its plain wrong to do whatever it takes to please upper class bussines guys, but to please average fan, without who NBA wouldnt even exist.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kori Ellis

"I have no problem dressing up (business) casual because I know I'm a nice-looking guy," Indiana guard Stephen Jackson said. "But as far as chains, I definitely feel that's a racial statement. Almost 100 percent of the guys in the league who are young and black wear big chains. So I definitely don't agree with that at all."

---

:lmao

I went through the thread before posting and I'm surprised nobody reacted to this! This is what got my attention! :lol

As for Duncan's comments...I, too, am surprised. Just suck it up already man. It's no big deal.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by exstatic

I have to agree with that, and ask one question: who the fuck does the NBA think buys most of their shit? Hip hop has made NBA merchandising absolutely EXPLODE over the last 10-15 years.

---

True.

Quote:

---

I wonder what Stern would do if EVERY player ignored this, or even dressed down, showing up for interviews in baggy jeans, jerseys, sandals and sunglasses?

---

Stern has to step down if that happens and higly doubt it - It's not gonna workout because

1. some are okay with dressing up
2. some dumasses, wifebeaters, "pot"ters think their image goes up if they dress up
3. some are dumass idoits like sjax, rip who dress real ugly - the other end of the spectrum
4. Then there are guys like Timmy, Nash who are good role models who like to dress casual.

Since #4 are in minority Timmy might end up wearing a so called decent shirt and shoes OR he'd prefer wearing a mask when he enters/leaves the arena/team bus :lol :lol

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dario

Tim is just protesting for his own rights on his own way, its not like there werent any dress codes before, but now they are just stupid and he is prepared to show that by not complying and staying in locker room. Its the matter of personal choice, which is taken away from the players and i think its plain wrong to do whatever it takes to please upper class bussines guys, but to please average fan, without who NBA wouldnt even exist.

---

Yes.

Let Stern, owners and corporate america try to fill the arenas with white-collared people :blah :blah

Hope he said that stuff about staying in the locker room beacuase of the heat of the moment. It would be sad if he really did put it into practice.

Timmy will end up complying because he will realize that his presence on the bench if he is injured is more valuable to his teammates and the team than his hate of sportcoats.

But seriously this is BS.

How many people do YOU know that make 15 million + a year that are FORCED to wear something they don't want to to work?

I can't think of anyone.

All you people that say "well I have to wear such and such to work, i have a dress code they can get over it" are so stupidly replaceable its funny.

You have no pull because you aren't special. They HAVE pull because they are and you can't deal with it.

Dress codes in the NBA are stupid and unprecidented for people ANYWHERE making that kind of money.

ha ha hah a Timmy standing up to the boss is the most brave thing i have ever seen

Go TIMMAY!!! "free yo mind"

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by exstatic

I have to agree with that, and ask one question: who the fuck does the NBA think buys most of their shit? Hip hop has made NBA merchandising absolutely EXPLODE over the last 10-15 years.

Manny, I kind of agree with you, but if you have a problem with a dress code, you can always got to another more casual company. As MB says, they are out there. The NBA players don't have that option.

Kori - any word on penalties yet? Monetary or possibly suspensions?

I wonder what Stern would do if EVERY player ignored this, or even dressed down, showing up for interviews in baggy jeans, jerseys, sandals and sunglasses?

---

Right on. Walking around the University of Houston I can't count how many throwback jerseys I see on a daily basis. Do you really think those things would be bought if guys like Rip Hamilton and AI weren't wearing them all the time? I understand what Stern is trying to do, I just think that he's going about it in a senseless way. If anything, I think this is just going to alienate some fans. For as much as I hate the way Iverson dresses, I know there are plenty of fans out there who respect him for it and those of us who don't like it can go watch well dressed stars give their interviews. The appeal of the diversity is like that of a three ring circus. If you don't like the clowns then watch the elephants. Or you can attend Stern's Big Top and watch a bear on a unicycle for three straight hours.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Marcus Bryant

It's not like professional dress in the US is limited to suit and tie for men nowadays.

---

Marcus Bryant has been seen many times this fall season wearing the latest blouse, skirt and man purse. Not that there's anything wrong with it.

Quote:

---

I am very disappointed that Duncan isn't cooperating.

---

Ya... timmy should just follow the company the line... don't speak up...

What a load of crap... they play basketball! They aren't business execs in some high rise... I agree with dictating their oncourt dress - tuck in shirts, etc, etc... but when their on the bench? What a load of crap. I'm glad Duncan spoke up.

Quote:

---

All you people that say "well I have to wear such and such to work, i have a dress code they can get over it" are so stupidly replaceable its funny.

---

They DO have a dress code... Shorts, Jersey, Tennies, Socks, and an optional head band... why should they have a dress code when they aren't playing? Because some pen head thinks they should?

I know I'm in the minority, but I *like* Mark Cuban, even if he does need a haircut and a new wardrobe. He made his money and went out and did what he wanted - bought a team, and wholeheartedly supports them.

I think he explains this very, very, very well. I had not heard of the NBA Cares initiative, but I think he's totally, completely 100% right. THAT is the sort of thing that will change the NBA image, and it's buried under the superficial dress code.

The NBA really is barking up the wrong tree.

So confusing how we assign virtue to expensive, uncomfortable clothing.

... Not to mention the utterly meaningless term "professionalism".

It's about time Stern put a stop to the "thug" look.It was getting out of hand and making the NBA look dirty.
Who started the whole "thug" look??? A.I. .... yes,Iverson!

If a company offers me a job that I love to do that will pay me around $6-10 million a year (9 months if you think about it), put me up in the best hotels this country has to offer when I travel, and pay me $6-10 million a year (9 months if you really think about) I am not going to complain when they tell me, "we need you to wear a suit for a few hours a day to keep this job."

Let's keep it real folks. If any of you were offered a job with the above-mentioned benefits, you would not complain one bit. If you would, you would be one of the dumbest if not the dumbest person on the face of this world.

Professional atheletes are spoiled. That's all it is.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kip Fanatic

If a company offers me a job that I love to do that will pay me around $6-10 million a year (9 months if you think about it), put me up in the best hotels this country has to offer when I travel, and pay me $6-10 million a year (9 months if you really think about) I am not going to complain when they tell me, "we need you to wear a suit for a few hours a day to keep this job."

Let's keep it real folks. If any of you were offered a job with the above-mentioned benefits, you would not complain one bit. If you would, you would be one of the dumbest if not the dumbest person on the face of this world.

Professional atheletes are spoiled. That's all it is.

---

I'd sleep in a damn suit!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by minusplus

I'd sleep in a damn suit!

---

That's all I'm saying.

maybe the spurs will lose the some class image and actually get marketed by the nba now

Is David Stern going to clean up the 29 clubs' PA announcers at courtside?

Exhibit A: John Mason, hat, jersey, chains, & "B-B-B-B-B-buh buh Ben Wallissssssss!"

http://www.nba.com/media/pistons/john_mason.jpg

Mavs rookie free-agent forward Rawle Marshall has a two-year contract but only one year is guaranteed -- albeit at $398,762. He said, however, that he doesn't want to buy new clothes, especially since he won't receive his first full paycheck until Nov. 15.

"I'm living off my per diem [$102 a day] right now, so it's a tough situation," Marshall said. "But I've already got a special situation, because my uncle wears the same size as me. The rookies coming in now, we don't have money to buy some of that stuff."

what about this guy who is making 102 a day

suits are not cheap imo!

the dress code is a load of crap. certainly fortune 500 companies have dress codes, but it's about more than image and marketing. it's environment and situation. you don't go to the office with baggy jeans and whatnot because of the expectations and the nature of the business. the nba is a different beast entirely in which the main workers do, already, wear uniforms. that is the appropriate attire for their trade. telling them what to wear when not working (i.e., playing) is just stupid. it changes nothing about the image of the game because that image is crafted outside the court, on commercials, in newspapers and during the times that the players are outside the bounds of the dress code. thus, what gets headlines is kobe's rape trial, and he was not wearing a suit and even if he had it would have meant squat. the only thing this does is make the league look ignorant. this isn't high school, where clothing can make a difference in distracting students and show loyalyty to some gang that can cause disruptions. no one in the stands is going to be so overwhelmed by the attire that they stop watching the games or drinking their beers or buying the jerseys being marketed. this isn't the normal business establishment in which suits and business casual are the norm (and even then, that isn't the norm everywhere). this is just retarded and duncan nailed it.

Reminds me of the year Steve Kerr wore the powder blue tux he bought off e-bay to the Tux n Tennies. I say they all wear leisure suits! :lol

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ducks

Mavs rookie free-agent forward Rawle Marshall has a two-year contract but only one year is guaranteed -- albeit at $398,762. He said, however, that he doesn't want to buy new clothes, especially since he won't receive his first full paycheck until Nov. 15.

"I'm living off my per diem [$102 a day] right now, so it's a tough situation," Marshall said. "But I've already got a special situation, because my uncle wears the same size as me. The rookies coming in now, we don't have money to buy some of that stuff."

what about this guy who is making 102 a day

suits are not cheap imo!

---

I thought about that too. The guys who are going to be on the inactive list sitting on the bench to start the season are likely the guys who are on minimum contracts. And with their first paycheck coming on Nov 15, they'll probably be dressing pretty shabby from Nov 1 - 14.

And you are right .. sports coats/suits for guys who are that tall aren't cheap - they have to be customized.

Timmy can say and do what he wants. I for one respect him, others don't.

Does he get fined for not showing up to the bench if he's on reserve or injured? Does he get fined for staying in the locker room? Seriously, cause if he doesn't, he just neatly sidesteps the issue altogether.

I think Cuban made a great point about the lower wage players and how this adversely affects them. Now Timmy doesn't qualify, but we're not talking about $130 suit from K&G - they don't quite make the pants long enough. . . they are forced to buy and tailor expensive suits, because that's all that will fit them.

Timmy D and Steve Nash may dress casually, but they generally have a neat appearance, and are good role models - much better than Kobe, who generally wears a suit. I'll take that any day.

Professionalism is about an attitude - it's in how you speak and act. Professionalism varies between fields. I find Tim Duncan to be one of the most professional athletes in basketball, because he quietly goes about his business, taking responsibility when he has done something wrong, not blaming his teammates or the coaches or the refs, not bashing other teams, not posturing after a big play or in front of the cameras. That is professionalism in basketball - it has everything to do with how one acts on the court. And off the court as well, in interviews, in charity events, around the public.

Further, if the goal is really to eradicate the gangsta image or as some are suggesting, the black image, what about the tats and fros and cornrows? Are those next? I can't imagine corporate America/sponsers being comfortable with those hairstyles. . . And when are they going to suspend people for being arrested? Three convictions (rape, drugs, drunk driving, murder charges, anything) and you're out? Oh, right - that's all part of personal life, not business, so they can't regulate it. You would think they would realize that attire might fall under the same category, but they can manipulate that, so they do.

Sad that it's so superficial, and they think it'll make it better.

Sadder that a major intiative that really would improve their image is buried irretrievably under this story.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ducks

Mavs rookie free-agent forward Rawle Marshall has a two-year contract but only one year is guaranteed -- albeit at $398,762. He said, however, that he doesn't want to buy new clothes, especially since he won't receive his first full paycheck until Nov. 15.

"I'm living off my per diem [$102 a day] right now, so it's a tough situation," Marshall said. "But I've already got a special situation, because my uncle wears the same size as me. The rookies coming in now, we don't have money to buy some of that stuff."

what about this guy who is making 102 a day

suits are not cheap imo!

---

So from now to Nov. 15 he is making $102 a day. That likes if one of us was working eight hours a day and making about $12 and some change per/hour? Right? The dress code goes into effect Nov. 1st. So for two weeks this guys will make $1428. You're telling me he can't find a few suits for about $150-200.

C'mon. Come up with a better argument. After two weeks he will start making a lot more money. We're talking six figures here.

Quote:

---

You're telling me he can't find a few suits for about $150-200.

---

If someone is about 6'6 or more, I don't think a suit is that cheap. But they'll do what they have to do. They are about to get paid.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kori Ellis

And I believe that some players have in their endorsement contracts with shoe companies that they must wear their shoes/apparel at media, publicity events. So now the players will be breaching their endorsement contracts by wearing dress shoes, etc.

---

Aren't they creating a marketing opportunity for the shoe companies? How much would they pay Duncan to take a $10,000 fine for wearing their tennis shoes during a media event and have it mentioned in every recap of the game?

who knows if he has good credit?
and I would be SHOCKED if his suit would be less then $200 because he is so tall and his arms are long. THEY HAVE TO BE MADE JUST FOR HIM! THEREFORE HIS PRICE WENT UP.
ALSO this is the 19. SOOOOOOOOOOO CAN he have one done by the first of nov 1?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ducks

who knows if he has good credit?
and I would be SHOCKED if his suit would be less then $200 because he is so tall and his arms are long. THEY HAVE TO BE MADE JUST FOR HIM! THEREFORE HIS PRICE WENT UP.
ALSO this is the 19. SOOOOOOOOOOO CAN he have one done by the first of nov 1?

---

Most likely I'd think they'd borrow a sportcoat from another player or whatever until they get paid.

But they shouldn't have to borrow one. What is inappropriate about wearing team gear on the bench or in interviews or to and from the bus? Nice jeans or warm-ups with a Team shirt or jersey? Not allowed under the dress code, but advertising their team.

That's silly.

And will someone tell me why players have to shower and dress in 'nice' clothes for interviews, when it would be quicker if they could wear team gear? I just don't see the point of eliminating that.

This issue reminds me of an interesting scenario that happened some 10 years ago in India. The official sponsors for the cricket world cup '96 was Coca-Cola, which was virtually non-existent in India at that time. Pepsi were ruling the market and most cricket stars were endorsing Pepsi.

You know who won the whole deal? Pepsi, by spending less money - They ran ADs on all non-sports channels saying "there is nothing official about it!". It was such a huge hit. World cup organisers had to eat their own crow :lol :lol


I really wish AI, Timmy and the rest who oppose dress code really get a chance to endorse casual/do-rag/baggy stuff (which connects to people instantly rather than a wifebeater endorsing Armani).

:lol :lol

Hey "There is nothing official about it".

I hope Timmy and the rest win this battle.

You do realize this is a direct result of Ron "I have two active brain cells" Artest and his KFC-eating pal Stephen Jackson's actions last year in Detroit right? The league is still trying to deal with that fiasco from a public relations standpoint and this is just one of David Stern's tentacles extending to do just that. Personally, I could care less what players wear to games, after all, the guys that are sitting on the bench in street clothes every night are total jabronies to begin with. Who cares what Tracy Murray is wearing while waving a towel?!

As for Marcus Camby's comments about how the league should give players an allowance to pay for the clothes- it's comments like this and Spreewell's from last year that sometimes make it very difficult to watch basketball and support the NBA. These guys make MILLIONS of dollars to play a goddamn sport and the fact they would complain about money redefines pathetic. Guess what Marcus, the people that pay your salary- us fans make NOWHERE near what you make and pay for the clothes we wear to work with our little salaries you dumb shit. Go back to being an injury-prone wannabe Center and don't open your mouth when it requires your brain to compute anything more intellectually challenging than the lyrics to newest 50 Cent track.

Fucking total dipshit.

Was that racist Mr. Jackson?

And I am dissapointed in Tim as well for lowering himself into Allen Iverson, Stephen Jackson, Marcus Camby, Latrell Spreewell territory with those comments about staying in the lockeroom. Tim- you make 17 MILLION DOLLARS A YEAR TO PLAY FUCKING BASKETBALL- you don't do anything relevant in the bigger picture. You are about as significant to this world as a bumper sticker. Just wear the damn clothes and shut you fucking mouth.

Duncan could have a larger contract if the owners didn't fuck him. The league is there because of the players as much as it is because of the owners.

Who gives a shit if Duncan wears what he wants to a game? Christ, you're watching the man run around in shorts and a wifebeater on the court.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Walton Buys Off Me

You do realize this is a direct result of Ron "I have two active brain cells" Artest and his KFC-eating pal Stephen Jackson's actions last year in Detroit right? The league is still trying to deal with that fiasco from a public relations standpoint and this is just one of David Stern's tentacles extending to do just that. Personally, I could care less what players wear to games, after all, the guys that are sitting on the bench in street clothes every night are total jabronies to begin with. Who cares what Tracy Murray is wearing while waving a towel?!

As for Marcus Camby's comments about how the league should give players an allowance to pay for the clothes- it's comments like this and Spreewell's from last year that sometimes make it very difficult to watch basketball and support the NBA. These guys make MILLIONS of dollars to play a goddamn sport and the fact they would complain about money redefines pathetic. Guess what Marcus, the people that pay your salary- us fans make NOWHERE near what you make and pay for the clothes we wear to work with our little salaries you dumb shit. Go back to be an injury-prone wannabe Center and don't open your mouth when it requires your brain to compute anything more intellectually challenging than the lyrics to newest 50 Cent track.

Fucking total dipshit.

Was that racist Mr. Jackson?

And I am dissapointed in Tim as well for lowering himself into Allen Iverson, Stephen Jackson, Marcus Camby, Latrell Spreewell territory with those comments about staying in the lockeroom. Tim- you make 17 MILLION DOLLARS A YEAR TO PLAY FUCKING BASKETBALL- you don't do anything relevant in the bigger picture. You are about as significant to thsi world as a bumper sticker. Just wear the damn clothes and shut you fucking mouth.

---

I was going to same something like this, but without the curse words, but the pretty much sums it up. That argument about rookies and guys who aren't making millions is retarded. After my senior year, I wanted a job to save some money to put a down payment on a new car.

I found a job that paid me $9.75/hour. I worked 40 hours a week. Do the math. I had to wear dress slacks, dress shoes, dress shirts, and a tie. Did I complain? No. Did I like it? No. However, I did what I had do to get paid so put a down payment on a car I wanted. Those shirts, shoes, slacks, and ties weren't cheap, but I had to do it. Its called the real world. These players need to give me a break.

I am not saying they should not buy it. But everyone thinks all the nba players make millions so they should have no problem buying the clothles. that is is not true

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Walton Buys Off Me

You do realize this is a direct result of Ron "I have two active brain cells" Artest and his KFC-eating pal Stephen Jackson's actions last year in Detroit right? The league is still trying to deal with that fiasco from a public relations standpoint and this is just one of David Stern's tentacles extending to do just that. Personally, I could care less what players wear to games, after all, the guys that are sitting on the bench in street clothes every night are total jabronies to begin with. Who cares what Tracy Murray is wearing while waving a towel?!

As for Marcus Camby's comments about how the league should give players an allowance to pay for the clothes- it's comments like this and Spreewell's from last year that sometimes make it very difficult to watch basketball and support the NBA. These guys make MILLIONS of dollars to play a goddamn sport and the fact they would complain about money redefines pathetic. Guess what Marcus, the people that pay your salary- us fans make NOWHERE near what you make and pay for the clothes we wear to work with our little salaries you dumb shit. Go back to being an injury-prone wannabe Center and don't open your mouth when it requires your brain to compute anything more intellectually challenging than the lyrics to newest 50 Cent track.

Fucking total dipshit.

Was that racist Mr. Jackson?

And I am dissapointed in Tim as well for lowering himself into Allen Iverson, Stephen Jackson, Marcus Camby, Latrell Spreewell territory with those comments about staying in the lockeroom. Tim- you make 17 MILLION DOLLARS A YEAR TO PLAY FUCKING BASKETBALL- you don't do anything relevant in the bigger picture. You are about as significant to this world as a bumper sticker. Just wear the damn clothes and shut you fucking mouth.

---

I agree with you,except without all the cussing in your post.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Marcus Bryant

Duncan could have a larger contract if the owners didn't fuck him. The league is there because of the players as much as it is because of the owners.

Who gives a shit if Duncan wears what he wants to a game? Christ, you're watching the man run around in shorts and a wifebeater on the court.

---

Duncan isn't the owner though. He is a NBA Player. When he makes as much money as the owners do and decides to buy a franchise he can do the same to others. The owners are in the business to make money. What's wrong with that? That's what all owners of companies do.

Answer me this Marcus. If you had a job offer that would pay you around $3-7 million to do what you love for about nine months and put you up in the best hotels when you traveled, but required you to wear suits 3-4 days out of the week for a few hours, would you take it?

Mark Cuban dresses like someone's little brother. Maybe the league should start imposing dress codes on the owners? Holt Cat always likes to relax courtside with the tie off. That's a no-no, Mr. Holt. We wouldn't want anybody to get the wrong impression about the game, now would we?

Quote:

---

What does Duncan think about the dress code?

"I think it's a load of crap," Duncan said. "I understand what they're trying to do with the hats and do-rags and jerseys and stuff. That's fine. But I don't understand why they would take it to this level. I think it's basically retarded.

"I don't like the direction they're going, but who am I?"

---

I'm with Timmy.

Quote:

---

Duncan said he might choose to stay in the locker room on nights he isn't playing. [/B]

---

Here's hoping this is never an issue! = )

This eally just goes to show how much politics and sports do not mix.