Pick Three: 2018 NBA Draft

First, a quick aside: I'm getting ready to turn the TT over toward next off-season, and I'll be looking to make some changes with DraftExpress dead and NBAdraft.net still awful. Any suggestions on how we should do prospect threads and other sources for prospect info would be welcome.


Anyway, all the talk about tanking and trading Kawhi has caused me to look at potential trades for various players on the team. If a scenario where the team looks to move Kawhi and/or Aldrdige, they could get picks all over the first round. I thought it would be interesting to see whom the folks on ST would want in each of the following scenarios:


Spurs have only the 25th pick (Spurs stick with status quo):

Spurs have 5th and 25th picks (Spurs trade Leonard to Cavs for Brooklyn pick and fillers):

Spurs have 15th and 25th picks (Spurs trade Aldridge to Phoenix for Miami pick and fillers):

Spurs have 5th, 15th and 25th picks (Spurs clean house, making both of the above deals):

Yes, there are a billion other potential trades and scenarios, including a number of them in which the Spurs are buyers instead of sellers. I do think it would interesting to see if people's views on prospects change in the different situations. Someone earlier mentioned that the Spurs should go for a big if they get a top-10 pick, and I'd disagree. You can use late-firsts to fill holes, especially if it's your second or third pick, but you use your first pick on BPA. There are some scenarios where the team can pivot into a bottom-bracket playoff team if not just be a better version of this year's team. So you don't want to waste what could be your only high pick for a while drafting for need when you can use the MLE to fill that spot.

I have thought about moving Kawhi to the Cavs for the Nets Pick; if the Spurs were to consider moving him, and and Kawhi was willing commit to a non L.A team, that pick is enough to at least get a the Spurs to the table.

Kawhi for Kevin Love, Osman, and the Nets Pick

isn't a bad trade if the Spurs don't want to bottom out but still want to add a top prospect during the post Kawhi years.

If we trade Kawhi we better bottom out. So no to Love tbh. Unless we could flip him for other assets.

Does draftexpress not have current info at the moment? So many difficulties come with ending your season at the all-star game I guess.

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Originally Posted by cd021

I have thought about moving Kawhi to the Cavs for the Nets Pick; if the Spurs were to consider moving him, and and Kawhi was willing commit to a non L.A team, that pick is enough to at least get a the Spurs to the table.

Kawhi for Kevin Love, Osman, and the Nets Pick

isn't a bad trade if the Spurs don't want to bottom out but still want to add a top prospect during the post Kawhi years.

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I'd actually be a fan of Hill, Osman, Zizic and the pick for Kawhi and Patty. Cavs get to keep Love (probably important to them to have a Big Three, seeing as they won't have any way to get another star if they move Love AND the pick in one transaction), and SA gets rid of Patty's deal, two overhyped by decent prospects and a nice pick. Saves them like $4 Million next year and a ton more going forward. The team could bottom out next year if they wanted by moving Aldridge, but they could also keep him and have a clean cap in 2019 to continue building.

I do like Love though and think he and Aldridge could be a good fit. I'd just rather not have three bigs making so much money and nothing on the perimeter. It pretty much forces SA to use the Brooklyn pick on a guard.

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Originally Posted by Nathan89

If we trade Kawhi we better bottom out. So no to Love tbh. Unless we could flip him for other assets.

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I'm not a fan of bottoming out. One, the Spurs would have a hard time keeping fan interest. Second, if they can get an elite prospect without bottoming out, what's the point of doing so?

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Originally Posted by Nathan89

Does draftexpress not have current info at the moment? So many difficulties come with ending your season at the all-star game I guess.

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ESPN took DX over. So it's dead for good. All of those guy's work is theoretically behind ESPN's pay wall. Even if you could guarantee me that it's exactly like the old DX site there, I wouldn't become an insider to view it.

It's too early for me. I really don't look at stuff like this until the season is over and Kiwi news notwithstanding, it's not.

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Originally Posted by Chinook

First, a quick aside: I'm getting ready to turn the TT over toward next off-season, and I'll be looking to make some changes with DraftExpress dead and NBAdraft.net still awful. Any suggestions on how we should do prospect threads and other sources for prospect info would be welcome.


Anyway, all the talk about tanking and trading Kawhi has caused me to look at potential trades for various players on the team. If a scenario where the team looks to move Kawhi and/or Aldrdige, they could get picks all over the first round. I thought it would be interesting to see whom the folks on ST would want in each of the following scenarios:


Spurs have only the 25th pick (Spurs stick with status quo):

Spurs have 5th and 25th picks (Spurs trade Leonard to Cavs for Brooklyn pick and fillers):

Spurs have 15th and 25th picks (Spurs trade Aldridge to Phoenix for Miami pick and fillers):

Spurs have 5th, 15th and 25th picks (Spurs clean house, making both of the above deals):

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Option 4 is obviously intriguing if Kawhi really wants out, moving Aldridge to Phoenix for a mid 1st round pick is actually good return on a 32 year old (turns 33 early in the off season) all-star. I don't know if PATFO would do something that radical, but it would jump start the rebuild process

I'm too committed to a future with Kawhi to really entertain any trade talk involving him tbh. Trade speculation is usually fun. It's not so fun when it includes your franchise player tbh.

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Originally Posted by SAGirl

It's too early for me. I really don't look at stuff like this until the season is over and Kiwi news notwithstanding, it's not.

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(It's also to help me decide what threads to make in the TT.)

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Originally Posted by Chinook

I'm not a fan of bottoming out. One, the Spurs would have a hard time keeping fan interest. Second, if they can get an elite prospect without bottoming out, what's the point of doing so?



ESPN took DX over. So it's dead for good. All of those guy's work is theoretically behind ESPN's pay wall. Even if you could guarantee me that it's exactly like the old DX site there, I wouldn't become an insider to view it.

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Keeping fan interest is a risk I'm willing to take. The goal would be to get multiple elite prospects.

"DraftExpress.com will remain on the web with all of our existing archive, but will not be publishing any new content moving forward. All articles, rankings, mock drafts and event recaps moving forward will be published on ESPN.com. "

Damn I didn't realize that happened.

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Originally Posted by cd021

Option 4 is obviously intriguing if Kawhi really wants out, moving Aldridge to Phoenix for a mid 1st round pick is actually good return on a 32 year old (turns 33 early in the off season) all-star. I don't know if PATFO would do something that radical, but it would jump start the rebuild process

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I'm not sure LMA would be traded at all unless SA explicitly wanted to tank. I'd assume with Kawhi gone, LMA would keep getting his touches, so he'd probably prefer staying home rather than moving across the country to an equivalent situation. I think Phoenix may also not want him, but it would be kind of weird if they didn't. They will already have one or two more firsts, including a top-five pick. With those and the guys they already have, they aren't hurting for prospects. Getting LMA with three years left on his deal would seem like a strong move going forward.

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Originally Posted by Chinook

(It's also to help me decide what threads to make in the TT.)

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I didn't even know about DExpress ... Thanks for the update.

I check tweets and YouTube... There's a few guys I follow who do analytics for college prospects and such. It's really just too early for me to look at stuff like that and I don't pay attention to these guys yet. If the team falls out from playoff contention however, by going on a losing streak, I am sure I will look into it earlier and contribute. Good thread to start.

The Stepian and it's associated acts like the Ode to Oden podcast are useful resources

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Originally Posted by Nathan89

Keeping fan interest is a risk I'm willing to take. The goal would be to get multiple elite prospects.

"DraftExpress.com will remain on the web with all of our existing archive, but will not be publishing any new content moving forward. All articles, rankings, mock drafts and event recaps moving forward will be published on ESPN.com. "

Damn I didn't realize that happened.

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Of course it's a risk YOU'RE willing to take. The downside is you don't want Spurs games. It's a much bigger risk for the owners, though. Having multiple elite prospects may sound great, but being bad enough to get them usually means being so bad that it takes years to recover. Philly may not make the playoffs yet again, five years after tanking. The Magic haven't been since the lockout season. The Kings...

Yeah, I'm not bottoming out if I can help it. Even if they trade Aldridge and Kawhi, I hope they pivot to trying to build the best team they can rather than tanking.

Anyways, Jaren Jackson Jr is very interesting as a high pick.

There could be a lot of scenarios that play out. But in regards to prospects that I like a lot, here's my short list:

Prospects I like that should be available in 15-25 range:

Zhaire Smith, DeAndre Hunter, and Mitchell Robinson.

If Spurs get lucky and get 9th-14th picks, hope 1 of these falls.

Mo Bamba, Mikal Bridges, Jaren Jackson Jr., and Kevin Knox.

This draft doesn't have a lot of great talent from 12 on down. It's nothing like last years draft tbh..

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Originally Posted by SAGirl

I didn't even know about DExpress ... Thanks for the update.

I check tweets and YouTube... There's a few guys I follow who do analytics for college prospects and such. It's really just too early for me to look at stuff like that and I don't pay attention to these guys yet. If the team falls out from playoff contention however, by going on a losing streak, I am sure I will look into it earlier and contribute. Good thread to start.

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Originally Posted by objective

The Stepian and it's associated acts like the Ode to Oden podcast are useful resources

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Thanks. I will probably have a format ready to go in a week or so. I've been mainly following in Bruno's footsteps, but that's likely not going to be possible going forward. DX being gone isn't the only thing outdated about the old template.

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Originally Posted by cd021

Option 4 is obviously intriguing if Kawhi really wants out, moving Aldridge to Phoenix for a mid 1st round pick is actually good return on a 32 year old (turns 33 early in the off season) all-star. I don't know if PATFO would do something that radical, but it would jump start the rebuild process

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I do not believe PATFO would do option 4. In fact, I doubt Pop, at his age, would relish that kind of overhaul. He IS the king of continuity - cultcha, you know. Moreover, if the ownership group (whoever they are) were in favor of such a re-boot, they might be inclined to clean house at the top. Get a younger coach, more in touch with younger players, to actually coach those younger guys.

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Originally Posted by sasaint

I do not believe PATFO would do option 4. In fact, I doubt Pop, at his age, would relish that kind of overhaul. He IS the king of continuity - cultcha, you know. Moreover, if the ownership group (whoever they are) were in favor of such a re-boot, they might be inclined to clean house at the top. Get a younger coach, more in touch with younger players, to actually coach those younger guys.

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It's important to remember that Pop is an executive as well as a coach. They can bottom out and change coaches while still being "PATFO". Just let Udoka or Borrego be the next Spoelstra to Pop's Pat Riley. I do think Pop is going to have to find an extra reserve to make it two more years, though. I really can't see him going passed his Olympics run. But then again, if he moves up to the front office, that could let him focus on the USANT even more.

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Originally Posted by objective

Anyways, Jaren Jackson Jr is very interesting as a high pick.

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He was born in ’99 when I remember watching his dad play to help bring the first championship. I thought you were joking with that name. Holy shit I’m getting old. :lol

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Originally Posted by NASpurs

He was born in ’99 when I remember watching his dad play to help bring the first championship. I thought you were joking with that name. Holy shit I’m getting old. :lol

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He's not fat like his old man either. He can be there Steph to Dell. Hopefully that and not Seth to Dell.

Defensive big man who shoots threes like the old man.

People might not remember, but Jackson Sr made and stayed in the league for so long before he was ever with the Spurs because of his defense. His game flipped with the Spurs, but he was a proto Bowen.

Be a nice story after such a bad year to bring in a son of a Spurs champ.

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Originally Posted by objective

He's not fat like his old man either. He can be there Steph to Dell. Hopefully that and not Seth to Dell.

Defensive big man who shoots threes like the old man.

People might not remember, but Jackson Sr made and stayed in the league for so long before he was ever with the Spurs because of his defense. His game flipped with the Spurs, but he was a proto Bowen.

Be a nice story after such a bad year to bring in a son of a Spurs champ.

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99' was such a great year. His daggers and head wobble vs. Lakers and Blazers I will always remember.

It's a shame he preceded to gain 30 lbs once Spurs re-signed him for 10 mil over 3 years. I honestly always thought that experience with Jaren is what made the Spurs reluctant with Stephen Jackson.

So Jaren essentially fucked the Spurs not just by letting himself go after the contract, but making the Spurs hesitant with Stephen Jackson.

His son can ball though and I'd love to have him.

Can't believe it's been nearly 20 years since the first title -- where does time go?

For those trying to familiar themselves with the top 10 picks in the draft, I highly recommend this podcast:

https://leveragethechat.com/talk-hoo...s-sam-vecenie/

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Originally Posted by Chinook

It's important to remember that Pop is an executive as well as a coach. They can bottom out and change coaches while still being "PATFO". Just let Udoka or Borrego be the next Spoelstra to Pop's Pat Riley. I do think Pop is going to have to find an extra reserve to make it two more years, though. I really can't see him going passed his Olympics run. But then again, if he moves up to the front office, that could let him focus on the USANT even more.

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True enough. Riley/Spoelstra would be the model, but would president Pop have any more stomach for a fairly extensive re-tooling than coach Pop? Also, we are so accustomed to the Holts being such hands-off owners, would the events of the last 9 months, taken in aggregate, prompt ownership to break with past history and step in after years of passivity?

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Originally Posted by MaNu4Tres

99' was such a great year. His daggers and head wobble vs. Lakers and Blazers I will always remember.

It's a shame he preceded to gain 30 lbs once Spurs re-signed him for 10 mil over 3 years. I honestly always thought that experience with Jaren is what made the Spurs reluctant with Stephen Jackson.

So Jaren essentially fucked the Spurs not just by letting himself go after the contract, but making the Spurs hesitant with Stephen Jackson.

His son can ball though and I'd love to have him.

Can't believe it's been nearly 20 years since the first title -- where does time go?

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Interesting that when they cut Jaren, I think it was the most money they ever ate at that point in time.

This was before the stadium was built, when they were crying about only having 11 suites in the alamodome.

They were so poor they had to ask Sean to defer salary just to have the cash on hand to build the practice facility.

That's how badly Jaren Sr had worn out his welcome.

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Originally Posted by objective

That's how badly Jaren Sr had worn out his welcome.

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Is there anyone currently that strikes you that way. Even the days of SJAX wearing out his second welcome are really from a time I wasn't into the Spurs all that much.

No one strikes me that way in this current crew.

I thought Boris, had he not been traded, was heading in that direction. We love the personality but he had let himself go, grown complacent (and he was prone to struggling with his own weight and aggression as a player to begin with), and he was playing less. The way he was headed was out of the league and that's what he eventually got. Unbelievable bc without him Spurs don't get past OKC 2014 (and some would say against the Heat neither)

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Originally Posted by Chinook

I'd actually be a fan of Hill, Osman, Zizic and the pick for Kawhi and Patty. Cavs get to keep Love (probably important to them to have a Big Three, seeing as they won't have any way to get another star if they move Love AND the pick in one transaction), and SA gets rid of Patty's deal, two overhyped by decent prospects and a nice pick. Saves them like $4 Million next year and a ton more going forward. The team could bottom out next year if they wanted by moving Aldridge, but they could also keep him and have a clean cap in 2019 to continue building.

I do like Love though and think he and Aldridge could be a good fit. I'd just rather not have three bigs making so much money and nothing on the perimeter. It pretty much forces SA to use the Brooklyn pick on a guard.

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I forgot that the Cavs still had Zizi after they Fed Ex'd half the team cross country


Thats an interesting alternative trade. Mills is already redundant with Murray in the starting role and Parker as the backup PG and Forbes (though, he is better than Bryn) and his contract is bad one that goes for 3 more years so I would be all for trying to include him in any deal. I do worry that the Spurs might get sentimental with Hill during the last year of that contract and opt to keep him for $19,000,000 when they could cut him if he under performs and pay only $1,000,000. I forgot about Pau but he is really on a one year deal after this season, though he would and is a super over-priced backup center next season, despite how well he's played overall.


Trade Scenario 1:

Cavs Get: Kawhi Leonard, Patty Mills,

Spurs Get: Kevin Love, Cedi Osman, Ante Zizic, Nets Pick ( Five-thirty-eight has Brooklyn projected as finishing 3rd, so it could be even better, for what its worth)


Trade Scenario 2:

Cavs Get: Kawhi Leonard, Patty Mills

Spurs Get: George Hill, Cedi Osman, Ante Zizic, Nets Pick

based on rough numbers crunching; I think both deals wouldn't actually save the Spurs money next season when factoring the salary of the Net pick, but probably by not much more than a couple of million.

In both deals the long term savings would be big though; the 4 players we would receive in the first deal (including the draft pick) would cost almost $36 million in '19-20, which would've been around what Kawhi would be scheduled to make under the super-max. In deal number two, if the Spurs cut Hill before the '19-20 season along with stretching and waiving Pau they could have a a lot amount of cap space if they were to go that route.

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Originally Posted by SAGirl

Is there anyone currently that strikes you that way. Even the days of SJAX wearing out his second welcome are really from a time I wasn't into the Spurs all that much.

No one strikes me that way in this current crew.

I thought Boris, had he not been traded, was heading in that direction. We love the personality but he had let himself go, grown complacent (and he was prone to struggling with his own weight and aggression as a player to begin with), and he was playing less. The way he was headed was out of the league and that's what he eventually got. Unbelievable bc without him Spurs don't get past OKC 2014 (and some would say against the Heat neither)

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Not really, no one comes to mind. Normally gaining a lot of weight or being injured seem to be major factors in Pop being 'through' with a player, like Jaren, Mahinmi, or Diaw.

But it didn't hurt Parker and hasn't hurt Mills.

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Originally Posted by Nathan89

I'm too committed to a future with Kawhi to really entertain any trade talk involving him tbh. Trade speculation is usually fun. It's not so fun when it includes your franchise player tbh.

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Originally Posted by Nathan89

I'm too committed to a future with Kawhi to really entertain any trade talk involving him tbh. Trade speculation is usually fun. It's not so fun when it includes your franchise player tbh.

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Gotta agree with this. It's like making a list of girls you'll try and date after your wife divorces you. Concentrate on the relationship at hand.

(Not that I don't appreciate OP's excellent work. Just not in the mood to consider such a future...yet...)

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Originally Posted by Chinook

ESPN took DX over. So it's dead for good. All of those guy's work is theoretically behind ESPN's pay wall. Even if you could guarantee me that it's exactly like the old DX site there, I wouldn't become an insider to view it.

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I found a site that lets you read insider articles, google for insider2text. I tried a couple of recent articles and it actually seems to work.

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Originally Posted by Chinook

First, a quick aside: I'm getting ready to turn the TT over toward next off-season, and I'll be looking to make some changes with DraftExpress dead and NBAdraft.net still awful. Any suggestions on how we should do prospect threads and other sources for prospect info would be welcome.


Anyway, all the talk about tanking and trading Kawhi has caused me to look at potential trades for various players on the team. If a scenario where the team looks to move Kawhi and/or Aldrdige, they could get picks all over the first round. I thought it would be interesting to see whom the folks on ST would want in each of the following scenarios:


Spurs have only the 25th pick (Spurs stick with status quo):

Spurs have 5th and 25th picks (Spurs trade Leonard to Cavs for Brooklyn pick and fillers):

Spurs have 15th and 25th picks (Spurs trade Aldridge to Phoenix for Miami pick and fillers):

Spurs have 5th, 15th and 25th picks (Spurs clean house, making both of the above deals):

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3 depending on the filler

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Originally Posted by objective

Not really, no one comes to mind. Normally gaining a lot of weight or being injured seem to be major factors in Pop being 'through' with a player, like Jaren, Mahinmi, or Diaw.

But it didn't hurt Parker and hasn't hurt Mills.

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Originally Posted by cd021

I forgot that the Cavs still had Zizi after they Fed Ex'd half the team cross country


Thats an interesting alternative trade. Mills is already redundant with Murray in the starting role and Parker as the backup PG and Forbes (though, he is better than Bryn) and his contract is bad one that goes for 3 more years so I would be all for trying to include him in any deal. I do worry that the Spurs might get sentimental with Hill during the last year of that contract and opt to keep him for $19,000,000 when they could cut him if he under performs and pay only $1,000,000. I forgot about Pau but he is really on a one year deal after this season, though he would and is a super over-priced backup center next season, despite how well he's played overall.


Trade Scenario 1:

Cavs Get: Kawhi Leonard, Patty Mills,

Spurs Get: Kevin Love, Cedi Osman, Ante Zizic, Nets Pick ( Five-thirty-eight has Brooklyn projected as finishing 3rd, so it could be even better, for what its worth)


Trade Scenario 2:

Cavs Get: Kawhi Leonard, Patty Mills

Spurs Get: George Hill, Cedi Osman, Ante Zizic, Nets Pick

based on rough numbers crunching; I think both deals wouldn't actually save the Spurs money next season when factoring the salary of the Net pick, but probably by not much more than a couple of million.

In both deals the long term savings would be big though; the 4 players we would receive in the first deal (including the draft pick) would cost almost $36 million in '19-20, which would've been around what Kawhi would be scheduled to make under the super-max. In deal number two, if the Spurs cut Hill before the '19-20 season along with stretching and waiving Pau they could have a a lot amount of cap space if they were to go that route.

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I'd go with option 1 (if the Cavs put both options on the table). I wouldn't want hill taking minutes from DJ or White.

If I'm trading Kawhi I'm trying to get a young guy already in the league and picks... something like to Phoenix with Jackson and their 1st coming back...maybe the Lakers for Ingram, kuzma, and a couple 1sts... maybe Boston for Tatum and either brown or a 1st... something along those lines..

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Originally Posted by mo7888

If I'm trading Kawhi I'm trying to get a young guy already in the league and picks... something like to Phoenix with Jackson and their 1st coming back...maybe the Lakers for Ingram, kuzma, and a couple 1sts... maybe Boston for Tatum and either brown or a 1st... something along those lines..

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I don't think that the Laker's have enough assets tbh; Ingram, Randle, Hart and Kuzma and future 1sts, that are likely to be in the 20's, probably isn't going to get PATFO very interested.

If Boston then it would have to be Brown, Tatum, Memphis 2019 1st ( only top 8 protected with a decent chance of being a lottery pick), Clippers 2019 1st ( lottery protected in 2019 and 2020 so it may not convey but if they were to make the playoffs then the pick would convey and would probably be in the teens and give the Spurs 3 1st round picks) and maybe a 2019 Boston pick for good measure.

Phoenix has some good assets but I doubt he would commit beyond next season meaning that they wouldn't give up but only so much.

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Originally Posted by cd021

I don't think that the Laker's have enough assets tbh; Ingram, Randle, Hart and Kuzma and future 1sts, that are likely to be in the 20's, probably isn't going to get PATFO very interested.

If Boston then it would have to be Brown, Tatum, Memphis 2019 1st ( only top 8 protected with a decent chance of being a lottery pick), Clippers 2019 1st ( lottery protected in 2019 and 2020 so it may not convey but if they were to make the playoffs then the pick would convey and would probably be in the teens and give the Spurs 3 1st round picks) and maybe a 2019 Boston pick for good measure.

Phoenix has some good assets but I doubt he would commit beyond next season meaning that they wouldn't give up but only so much.

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It just depends on how much patfo values different guys. We can say the Lakers don't have the assets but, if patfo is really enamored with Ingram then they might have enough. I covered a range of different teams because I don't know who we like. Personally, I like Tatum better than Ingram because he's a better 3 point guy and doesn't need the ball in his hands as much so he fits better with DJ. That said, patfo might like ingram's length, handle, and aggressiveness attacking the basket better.... I'm just saying I like this guy or that one but they are looking at a bigger picture.

too early to think about trading the franchise player...

A Kawhi trade is only one part of the OP. The Spurs have a draft pick no matter what happens with Kawhi

Spurs need wings and bigs. But the truth is, I hope that SA uses their pick (assuming it’s the only one they have) to move Mills contract or Pau’s.

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Originally Posted by DPG21920

Spurs need wings and bigs. But the truth is, I hope that SA uses their pick (assuming it’s the only one they have) to move Mills contract or Pau’s.

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I don't consider them comparable contracts. Patty will have nearly twice as much money guaranteed to him after this season than Pau does. ($39 Million vs $23 Million). Trading a first and Mills for a decent expiring or a TE might make sense. But given that cap space may not be on the table for a long time, I'm not giving one up to get rid of Pau. Short of having a shot at a max guy, the pick is just more valuable, even as a stash.

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Originally Posted by mo7888

3 depending on the filler

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The thread isn't about picking which option you prefer. And there's no way I'd say the things you've said about the Kawhi situation while also thinking that trading Aldridge for a mid-first is the best course of action anyway.

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Originally Posted by Chinook

I don't consider them comparable contracts. Patty will have nearly twice as much money guaranteed to him after this season than Pau does. ($39 Million vs $23 Million). Trading a first and Mills for a decent expiring or a TE might make sense. But given that cap space may not be on the table for a long time, I'm not giving one up to get rid of Pau. Short of having a shot at a max guy, the pick is just more valuable, even as a stash.

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I would agree with that and it’s a reasonable take for sure. However, if the difference (assuming other moves like renouncing TP and Manu) in getting some decent cap space means a team is willing to take on Gasol vs Mills and you get a commitment from a FA you really like, I think it’s worth it.

A lot of things are pointing to Jaren Jackson being a great pick. Suns fans on RealGM were talking about Josh Jackson and their pick for Kawhi. Dunno if that's enough, but Murray, Jackson and Jackson is a great start for either a rebuild or a good set of role-players to fit around Aldrige, Gay and the other vets. White, Bertans and Milutinov aren't exactly terrible either for fourth, fifth and sixth "young guys".

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Originally Posted by Chinook

A lot of things are pointing to Jaren Jackson being a great pick. Suns fans on RealGM were talking about Josh Jackson and their pick for Kawhi. Dunno if that's enough, but Murray, Jackson and Jackson is a great start for either a rebuild or a good set of role-players to fit around Aldridge, Gay and the other vets. White, Bertans and Milutinov aren't exactly terrible either for fourth, fifth and sixth "young guys".

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Don' t know if they'd give up two top 3 picks for Kawhi without assurances that he would resign but they have't made the playoffs in nearly a decade and their rebuild doesn't seem to be going very good, other than Booker, so who knows.

Jackson has become my dream for winning the lottery as the 9th seed, or even getting the 2nd or 3rd. Good chance he's there at 3, with Ayton and Doncic being top two. Bulls won Rose when the odds were against them. As long as Patty keeps getting crunch time minutes and delivering his crucial four point swings, the dream for the lottery LIVES.

Him with Kawhi and Murray and Aldridge and Green ... Best ever defensive rating.

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Originally Posted by cd021

Don' t know if they'd give up two top 3 picks for Kawhi without assurances that he would resign but they have't made the playoffs in nearly a decade and their rebuild doesn't seem to be going very good, other than Booker, so who knows.

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I don't know if they would either. I think their pick and someone like Chriss would make more sense. Maybe add in the Miami pick and them taking back more bad salary. I do like Josh, though, and I think him and a top-three pick is a better package than anything Boston can realistically put together. Again, though, Tatum could be Pop's wet dream for all I know.

I think the Suns make much more sense for either LMA or Love in a scenario where SA gets him in a Kawhi deal. Both guys have multiple years left on their deals, and Phoenix could add the 2018 Miami and MKE picks to an expiring and really come correct with an offer for both. Booker, Jackson and a top-three pick is a really strong young group to try to make a playoff push. Trade the other pieces for a PF and PG (could easily get Walker for a few of those assets), and try to make a real push.

I do see scenarios where PHX could keep Kawhi, though. Fast-growing area, much closer to LA, great medical staff. If Kawhi's more butt-hurt about the injury than the market, the Suns (especially after making some moves) are a nice choice. It also doesn't hurt that they can give him significantly more money, even if the supermax is off the table.

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Originally Posted by cd021

I forgot that the Cavs still had Zizi after they Fed Ex'd half the team cross country


Thats an interesting alternative trade. Mills is already redundant with Murray in the starting role and Parker as the backup PG and Forbes (though, he is better than Bryn) and his contract is bad one that goes for 3 more years so I would be all for trying to include him in any deal. I do worry that the Spurs might get sentimental with Hill during the last year of that contract and opt to keep him for $19,000,000 when they could cut him if he under performs and pay only $1,000,000. I forgot about Pau but he is really on a one year deal after this season, though he would and is a super over-priced backup center next season, despite how well he's played overall.


Trade Scenario 1:

Cavs Get: Kawhi Leonard, Patty Mills,

Spurs Get: Kevin Love, Cedi Osman, Ante Zizic, Nets Pick ( Five-thirty-eight has Brooklyn projected as finishing 3rd, so it could be even better, for what its worth)


Trade Scenario 2:

Cavs Get: Kawhi Leonard, Patty Mills

Spurs Get: George Hill, Cedi Osman, Ante Zizic, Nets Pick

based on rough numbers crunching; I think both deals wouldn't actually save the Spurs money next season when factoring the salary of the Net pick, but probably by not much more than a couple of million.

In both deals the long term savings would be big though; the 4 players we would receive in the first deal (including the draft pick) would cost almost $36 million in '19-20, which would've been around what Kawhi would be scheduled to make under the super-max. In deal number two, if the Spurs cut Hill before the '19-20 season along with stretching and waiving Pau they could have a a lot amount of cap space if they were to go that route.

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Either of these are solid, though Id have a slight preference for Hill, unless somehow Pau is the peice included instead of Patty and Love is part of the deal.

I’d also try to get greedy with CAVS since they are desperate to keep James. Like can we get a future first after 2020 when chances are they’ll be in decline (like BOS did with MEM), or Larry Nance?

There is also Boston that incredibly have MEM, SAC, and LAC 1st rounders for 2019, in addition to Tatum and Brown.

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Originally Posted by CGD

Either of these are solid, though Id have a slight preference for Hill, unless somehow Pau is the peice included instead of Patty and Love is part of the deal.

I’d also try to get greedy with CAVS since they are desperate to keep James. Like can we get a future first after 2020 when chances are they’ll be in decline (like BOS did with MEM), or Larry Nance?

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With trade scenario 1, Cleveland would be adding almost $4 million if Mills is subbed out for Gasol then it would be more like $9 million, they are way into the tax and the have the repeater tax so that might be like an extra $30 million in luxury tax.

Gasol's contract is better than Mills tbh, its basically 1 year remaining and can be waived and stretched with $7 million guaranteed in the third year being divided up to $2.3 million and spread to the '19-20, '20-21, and '21-22 seasons.

Moving Mills and Kawhi would help the Spurs out more. I would doubt that the Cavs would move their 2020 pick, maybe they can't because of the Stephian rule

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Originally Posted by cd021

With trade scenario 1, Cleveland would be adding almost $4 million if Mills is subbed out for Gasol then it would be more like $9 million, they are way into the tax and the have the repeater tax so that might be like an extra $30 million in luxury tax.

Gasol's contract is better than Mills tbh, its basically 1 year remaining and can be waived and stretched with $7 million guaranteed in the third year being divided up to $2.3 million and spread to the '19-20, '20-21, and '21-22 seasons.

Moving Mills and Kawhi would help the Spurs out more. I would doubt that the Cavs would move their 2020 pick, maybe they can't because of the Stephian rule

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I just saw the George Hill deal is only 1M guaranteed in 19/20, so that’s a huge perk.

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