Manu is a turnover machine

I would add that two of those turnovers yesterday were caused by lapses in the natural movements of those Manu intended to receive the pass. On the first example, Manu passed the ball off to Lauvergne, who inexplicably rolled to the basket with no intention of receiving the ball - he rolled solely to box out (???? which was a head-scratcher) and so Manu's pass sailed through his arms... The other one, near the end of the game Dejounte ran the baseline to seek an offensive rebound (his natural instinct) from the corner three spot - the Spurs offense, however, relies on the ability of the slasher to kick out and force the other team to trail the play while the ball swings around the horn. It's not necessarily that Dejounte screwed up - just that Manu reads and plays the Spurs offense on instinct - while Murray is not on that same page yet. Result - TOV.

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Originally Posted by Phenomanul

I would add that two of those turnovers yesterday were caused by lapses in the natural movements of those Manu intended to receive the pass. On the first example, Manu passed the ball off to Lauvergne, who inexplicably rolled to the basket with no intention of receiving the ball - he rolled solely to box out (???? which was a head-scratcher) and so Manu's pass sailed through his arms... The other one, near the end of the game Dejounte ran the baseline to seek an offensive rebound (his natural instinct) from the corner three spot - the Spurs offense, however, relies on the ability of the slasher to kick out and force the other team to trail the play while the ball swings around the horn. It's not necessarily that Dejounte screwed up - just that Manu reads and plays the Spurs offense on instinct - while Murray is not on that same page yet. Result - TOV.

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you're really trying to engage in a serious basketball discussion on ST? good luck. you're better off just calling someone a faggot or using a racial epithet. (although the take itself was spot on).

Another one didn't register as a TOV, because it was reviewed and the replay showed that the ball was last touched by New Orleans. On the replay, however, it's very clear that the defender was tugging at Ginobili the whole time - and so it should have been a foul - which would've put Ginobili on the line instead of setting up the inbounds play where Mills coughed it up.

Last ball should've been in a Manu's hands.

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Originally Posted by Phenomanul

I would add that two of those turnovers yesterday were caused by lapses in the natural movements of those Manu intended to receive the pass. On the first example, Manu passed the ball off to Lauvergne, who inexplicably rolled to the basket with no intention of receiving the ball - he rolled solely to box out (???? which was a head-scratcher) and so Manu's pass sailed through his arms... The other one, near the end of the game Dejounte ran the baseline to seek an offensive rebound (his natural instinct) from the corner three spot - the Spurs offense, however, relies on the ability of the slasher to kick out and force the other team to trail the play while the ball swings around the horn. It's not necessarily that Dejounte screwed up - just that Manu reads and plays the Spurs offense on instinct - while Murray is not on that same page yet. Result - TOV.

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both Murray and Kyle tend to cut from the 3 pt line. they aren't shooters and they can either get an O board or if the passer is sneaky, get a pass cutting to the basket. Manu threw the ball without looking pretty simple. The Joff thing, is lack of chemistry... wasn't Joff if I remember correctly it actually was Rudy Gay... He set a screen for manu to shoot a 3 and Manu saw that he was closed out and passed to Rudy who really wasn't expecting that pass. He didn't even roll aggressively at all bc he expected Manu to shoot. That one I will give you as a lack of chemistry. Rudy has not played in months and b4 then the team was new to him too... That still is just one pass that was attributable to lack of chemistry out of 5, potentially 6 TO.

That is just not good enough. But as I said Manu is 40. Give the ball to Dijon or Rudy.

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Originally Posted by Phenomanul

I would add that two of those turnovers yesterday were caused by lapses in the natural movements of those Manu intended to receive the pass. On the first example, Manu passed the ball off to Lauvergne, who inexplicably rolled to the basket with no intention of receiving the ball - he rolled solely to box out (???? which was a head-scratcher) and so Manu's pass sailed through his arms... The other one, near the end of the game Dejounte ran the baseline to seek an offensive rebound (his natural instinct) from the corner three spot - the Spurs offense, however, relies on the ability of the slasher to kick out and force the other team to trail the play while the ball swings around the horn. It's not necessarily that Dejounte screwed up - just that Manu reads and plays the Spurs offense on instinct - while Murray is not on that same page yet. Result - TOV.

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Integration of new guys is seldom smooth. The Lauvergne TO bothered me more because Joff is actually very good at rolling and being ready for passes. I think it was an unusual entry angle, and Joff hasn't played enough with Manu to know that unusual angles don't alter Manu's mentality at all. As you said, Dijon was doing what comes naturally - just isn't in the Spurs' playbook.

Oops, I think SAGirl is right; Rudy - not Joff.

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Originally Posted by MultiTroll

pink yourself faggot

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I'd say kill yourself but you'd probably take others with you (since it runs in the genes, Bosefus)

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Originally Posted by sasaint

Integration of new guys is seldom smooth. The Lauvergne TO bothered me more because Joff is actually very good at rolling and being ready for passes. I think it was an unusual entry angle, and Joff hasn't played enough with Manu to know that unusual angles don't alter Manu's mentality at all. As you said, Dijon was doing what comes naturally - just isn't in the Spurs' playbook.

Oops, I think SAGirl is right; Rudy - not Joff.

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Rudy was actually with his back turned to Manu. Manu threw that pass while Rudy had his back turned and no eye contact. Clearly he expected Rudy to roll but Rudy just set a screen and expected him to shoot. That still is just one TO due to lack of chemistry, but it still was reckless bc Rudy had his back turned. He had no way to know that pass was coming... still that is a very Manu play... other TOs in that game were not.

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Originally Posted by SAGirl

Rudy was actually with his back turned to Manu. Manu threw that pass while Rudy had his back turned and no eye contact. Clearly he expected Rudy to roll but Rudy just set a screen and expected him to shoot. That still is just one TO due to lack of chemistry, but it still was reckless bc Rudy had his back turned. He had no way to know that pass was coming... still that is a very Manu play... other TOs in that game were not.

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Other TOs were not a consequence of chemistry issues?

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Originally Posted by sasaint

Other TOs were not a consequence of chemistry issues?

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:lol

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Originally Posted by SAGirl

:lol

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Huh? I wasn't making a joke - but as long as I did, please share it with me. I was asking what you meant by that statement?

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Originally Posted by sasaint

Huh? I wasn't making a joke - but as long as I did, please share it with me. I was asking what you meant by that statement?

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To me the other TO were Manu forcing stuff, getting stuck and passing the ball recklessly.

Manu gets a lifetime pass now

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Originally Posted by SAGirl

both Murray and Kyle tend to cut from the 3 pt line. they aren't shooters and they can either get an O board or if the passer is sneaky, get a pass cutting to the basket. Manu threw the ball without looking pretty simple. The Joff thing, is lack of chemistry... wasn't Joff if I remember correctly it actually was Rudy Gay... He set a screen for manu to shoot a 3 and Manu saw that he was closed out and passed to Rudy who really wasn't expecting that pass. He didn't even roll aggressively at all bc he expected Manu to shoot. That one I will give you as a lack of chemistry. Rudy has not played in months and b4 then the team was new to him too... That still is just one pass that was attributable to lack of chemistry out of 5, potentially 6 TO.

That is just not good enough. But as I said Manu is 40. Give the ball to Dijon or Rudy.

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The one to Rudy was clearly on Manu (2nd half). Which is why I described the TO accredited to him from the play between him and Joff (1st half).

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Originally Posted by SAGirl

To me the other TO were Manu forcing stuff, getting stuck and passing the ball recklessly.

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Yeah, I agree. I just couldn't connect your final statement with its intended antecedent. So what was the haha?

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Originally Posted by Phenomanul

The one to Rudy was clearly on Manu (2nd half). Which is why I described the TO accredited to him from the play between him and Joff (1st half).

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Gotcha. I was focused on the 2nd half.

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Originally Posted by sasaint

Yeah, I agree. I just couldn't connect your final statement with its intended antecedent. So what was the haha?

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I suppose I misunderstood.
I thought you used sarcasm to joke about the naivete that would lead one to think Manu's 5 or nearly 6 TO were all chemistry related. Perhaps one of them was (the one with Rudy to me).

All turnovers are costly. But last night, several unfortunate plays stood out to me in the final minutes of the 4th (any one of them goes our way and the Spurs likely win):

1) The failure by Joff and Kyle to pinch off Anthony Davis from getting the offensive rebound on the 2nd free-throw miss by Jrue Holiday.

2) The inbounds cough up by Mills

3) The Manu TO with Dejounte (the one I described earlier)

4) The wide open 3 pointer that Mills missed.

5) (not in the 4th) but those 2 free points Pop gave away by getting himself ejected.

6) (also not in the 4th) but Parker gave up a 4 point swing with two back to back TOVs. Simple carelessness.


Much of it seems like water under the bridge though given the fact that the Spurs were steam-rolling over the Pelicans while LMA was still on the floor. In other words, if he had continued playing the Spurs likely win. meh.

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Originally Posted by SAGirl

I suppose I misunderstood.
I thought you used sarcasm to joke about the naivete that would lead one to think Manu's 5 or nearly 6 TO were all chemistry related. Perhaps one of them was (the one with Rudy to me).

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Just being your straight man.

The way this season is going he's the least of the problems. Actually has had a rather good year despite everything