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I still dont know about him. Sometimes he doesnt impress me at all. Sometimes he does some good things. He seems to be one dimensional in scoring, floaters/layups. I really havent seen him shoot jump shots all that much. I also see him turn it over a lot. I dont know..........Im not sold on him yet. What are yalls thoughts? :claw
i think maybe he gets a little too sure of himself at times and has to get humbled from time to time for him to get back on track. his last three games have seen him revert back to his earlier season version of himself which is unfortunate because he had really been coming along. hopefully, it's just a bump in the road and he gets back on track for the remainder of the season.
Same here, he needs to develop an outside shot or we're in trouble.
U see him turn it over a lot when? Look at his turnovers since starting recently... Very low... Fake newsQuote:
Originally Posted by lebomb
What 21 year old plays consistently? Nevertheless one drafted at the end of the first round? Expectations are way too high... The guy is good... We have vets that play worse than him that don't get the hate he does when they play poorly... He didn't even have a bad game the last game... He took 5 shots... He is out best defensive pg by a mile, and he makes things happen... When he gets consistent, he will be a problem... His issue right now is he is too passive on offense... He needs to run the break more... But on the other hand, he is running it with old, unathletic ppl... So there is only so much he can do with this roster...
His ceiling is Delonte West with a worse bbqll IQ
Trade ASAP
He's the future..... not the now. Parker is still the best guard on the team (like he's always been throughout his career) and the sample size of when they both start is big enough now to know starting TP is obviously what needs to be done.
Record when Murray starts: 14-16
Record when Parker starts: 15-6
He needs to play the Cavs every night... :lol
Actually he needs to be more aggressive trying to get to the rim. He gives up too easily if his defender catches up to him or if there is a switch. He has seemed somewhat comfortable taking a pull up jumper but it's from select spots and he can't always get to them to get a clean look, it depends on how the defense plays him, etc.
I like your opinion... we shall see what happens.Quote:
Originally Posted by rjv
Bad example... They were starting under different circumstances... Also Tony is just as inconsistent as Murray... It's just the he isn't called out for it... Murray is the best choice... Tony will always be the best choice until the reigns get handed over because the young pg won't be able to develop enough... Murray right now is better for the team... Tony had games last playoffs where he was absolutely horrible... On top of that, played consistently trash defense... No more! We KNOW we won't win this year... Why play Parker? Develop MurrayQuote:
Originally Posted by TheGreatYacht
He has star potential with great speed and length. He continues to improve his decision making and jump shot. Give him some time and his work ethic and toughness will make him a force.
This is why abortion should be legal countrywide.Quote:
Originally Posted by duncan2k5
Murray is not ready to be a starting pg. He was thrust in to the lineup because of Parker's diminished skill & play. Kudos to TP for trying to come back after a potential career-ending injury but he just doesn't have it anymore. He doesn't defend well and has trouble getting lift when going to the basket. This was the case BEFORE the injury and its only gotten worse.
Murray is an exceptional rebounder for a guard and has long limbs that can be disruptive on defense but he's lacking in many different areas. He has NO perimeter game to speak of. Shooting push shots or floaters from 15 + feet out isn't going to cut it in the NBA.
This season has been total trash and garbage. We are seeing the end of Parker and Manu's career and they are going out in the worst way possible. I can't imagine this team making the playoffs at this point. People have mentioned that they would like to see the Spurs in full-tank mode. What does that even mean? They just barely beat a terrible Memphis team at home by 2 points. There's no need to "TRY" to tank. They suck right now and are flat out bad. They are losing and don't need to try to lose. It's happening right before our eyes.
Green is what he is - an above average defender with an inconsistent offensive game. Mills has been awful this year. He got paid which brought on complacency and fatness. Sucks that he did that. Great guy but that doesn't guarantee buckets.
what are you talking about? Until he was injured Parker was without a doubt the 2nd best Spur in the post season. I finally understood why Pop had hidden him at the end of the regular season. Then again never let reality get in the way of a good (?) narrative...so continue.Quote:
Originally Posted by duncan2k5
Overrated here, doesnt have good handles, not too much shot selection, always the layup/floater, no 3 pointers, no playmaking.
¨We did our best, lost the game but had a lot of fun¨ mentality, trade him.
He used to be an ok poster long agoQuote:
Originally Posted by TheGreatYacht
Maybe hes suffering from alzheimers
Murray needs more G-League seasoning. He needs to develop an ability to run an offense, and that comes with experience against NBA level comp, which he will get a little bit of in the G-League. Think of how CoJo looked his first year here, that to me is Murray. Agree with earlier posts that he was thrust into a starting role before he was ready. But that doesn't mean he's broken. He has the NBA height and length, now needs some player development. Just like other great players have received (like Kawhi when he came into the league with no jumper to speak of).
Btw he's only 21, so he can theoretically take 1-2 more years before we see what he can truly bring. Remember guys we are comparing him to are at least a couple years older (Derrick White etc.), except for Ball who is taller and had more high level competition in college.
At this point better let TP9 gets his legs under him cause unless Spurs are in tank mode Murray isn't ready and won't be by the playoffs.
I'd put Gay and Green in the starting lineup as well.
Let Fatoriginal and Kylie come off the bench like they deserve,hell they're lucky to even be on the team
he is just not that good. period.
Finally someone with some sense. You should post more bro.Quote:
Originally Posted by tenbeersbold
And hes dumbQuote:
Originally Posted by superbigtime
Definitely needed the 433rd thread on this. Such rich insights. Will bookmark and suggest to friends and family.Quote:
Originally Posted by lebomb
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Originally Posted by TheGreatYacht
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Originally Posted by duncan2k5
http://www.threadbombing.com/data/me...0265992468.jpg
Murray is still young and has all the physical tools. Jury is still out, he looks good for certain stretches. We'll see.
Did u watch the playoffs? Did u see the series VS the grizzlies? Do u remember the game when Tony scored zero stats? U don't? Well STFU and let grown ppl speakQuote:
Originally Posted by TheGreatYacht
Second best doesn't mean he didn't have horrible games... He had a game with zero stats... He played very badly a couple times... But let's not let facts get in the way of the narrativeQuote:
Originally Posted by $pursDynasty
He literally said the opposite... LolQuote:
Originally Posted by Mikeanaro
How does he not have good handles? U make it sound like he is Danny Green... Just because one person said it doesn't mean it's true... U can't look at high turnover rate as a young player as proof of not having good handle... All young point guards have a high turnover rate... Even the elites like lebron when he came in the league... The guy can dribble, but his decision making isn't great yet... U guys were silent when Tony was sucking and Murray was playing great, but as soon as he has a subpar game u come out the woodwork... Go that way>>>>>Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikeanaro
U quoted two words... U Intentionally left out the rest...great work!Quote:
Originally Posted by Keepin' it real
Dunkan2k5 with the epic meltdown. Sa girl alt.
His turnovers are him getting picked off the dribble. I wish he were a stud, but he's one of the worst, if not the worst, starting PGs. Parker is on the decline, but I wouldn't say he's worse than Murray and he runs the offense better. I could see Parker get more minutes as the Spurs struggle in the playoff race. And Parker had way more positive games in the playoffs last year than duds. He was our 2nd best player until he went down.Quote:
Originally Posted by duncan2k5
Show me where this season his turnovers were getting picked off the dribble... His turnovers are from bad decisions... Sometimes he may get stripped driving into heavy traffic, but that's decision making... Not a lack of handling...Quote:
Originally Posted by cd98
Parker runs the offense better because he is a hall of fame point guard almost 20 year in with the same team and same coach... That's not a knock on Murray...
The point of the game is to win... We won't win this year at all... So starting Parker to MAYBE do SLIGHTLY better in the playoffs this year is less important as developing Murray who may make u win quicker in the future, or increase trade value... Parker starting now has zero upside...
Parker being the second best player last year (a far second) was more about Aldridge being trash... And let's not forget how badly he played on defense... And how poorly he played during last years season to the point where ppl wanted patty starting... His body couldn't even handle playing above his average for more than a couple games before he broke down... Tony is done... We need to move on from these old guys
bball dumb or life dumb ?Quote:
Originally Posted by tholdren
Yeah, the other day, but before that was about having fun, he is a dumb kid who is banging a nice looking gold digger so he is only into that, look at his twitter account, and people is telling him to actually play ball.Quote:
Originally Posted by duncan2k5
By the way, how much is he helping Spurs to win since his new ¨Mamba¨ mentality?
Lots of dumb turnovers, I watch the games and he is losing the ball very often or making others lose the ball.Quote:
Originally Posted by duncan2k5
But Lebron was an offensive menace, he compensated his bad handles with killer scoring, 3 pointers, speed, passing, rebounds.
Wrong, I invented the ¨Porker¨ thing here, I was really hoping Murray to be awesome, since Spurs lost to GSW last season I was really excited to see what Murray could do the next season, and after watching his photos with Kawhi training in the offseason one could only expect the best.
But no more 30 points this season, lots of scrubbing and disappointments.
The fact that Porker is doing better just shows how much of a letdown DJ is.
Sorry, I don't have the games recorded so that I can show you where he is getting picked off, but it's a common complaint here. We've all seen it. I'm surprised you haven't. I don't think Parker is the answer because I don't think he's 100% back and I think he is quickly declining. But he may be the best option if winning is the goal. Obviously Pop agrees given how Parker has started getting the money minutes in the 4th. At best, it's a play Parker when they need offense and play Murray for D (only b/c Parker can't guard anyone). That said, I don't know that Murray is the future. The Spurs drafted Kyle Anderson around the same spot. Does that mean he's replacing Kawhi? I mean he can spell minutes, but Anderson and Murray are minor pieces, not superstars. I'm not sure Murray will be the starting PG last year. He's getting his shot, but he's not locking down the position.Quote:
Originally Posted by duncan2k5
bro...we wont win with parker starting...u act as if we have a team capable of winning right now...we dont...so jumpstart murray's developent...we did it with tony and it panned out...Quote:
Originally Posted by cd98
murray is far from the reason we arent winning...he is just the scapegoat because of who he is...most games he isnt the worst player we have...even the last game aldridge played worse, but he gets a pass...tony parker has played some really bad games this season, but no one complained about him those games...but as soon as murray gets one turnover, or misses one jumper, ppl are ready to pull the plug...we have had tony for so long, u guys forget how young point guards playQuote:
Originally Posted by Mikeanaro
Parker had a terrible injury and he is almost 36 years old, did everything he could in the past now if he helps good but that was the golden opportunity for Murray and he didnt deliver.Quote:
Originally Posted by duncan2k5
Spurs have never drafted a good scoring PG since Parker, the closest thing was Nando De Colo and he blew his chances, Corey Joseph, Hill, Patty, Forbes and lots of other guys never had what it takes to be an offensive menace.
We have a team capable of making the playoffs and Pop isn't coaching to be in the lottery (although sometimes it seems that way). If Kawhi comes back and can get to 75% and gel with LMA, the Spurs could advance a round and be a tough out in the 2nd round. Murray won't get benched. But Parker is probably better in the money minutes. As long as the Spurs are playoff bound, I see Pop leaning on Parker. Next year? I wouldn't bet all my money that Spurs have decided he's the future. He needs a big jump in the offseason with his jump shot and some meat on his bones.Quote:
Originally Posted by duncan2k5
Spurs should give DWhite a legit shot to compete with Dijon to see if he can deliver.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikeanaro
I'm hot and cold on DJ as well. Dude needs a shot to really make it in today's NBA. He knows it. The Spurs know it. The entire NBA knows it. Let's see what he does about it.
People here really overlook all the defensive intangibles he brings to the starting lineup.
There's a big reason why he's improved recently to 19th in RPM out of all the PGs in the NBA. He's been more than solid since the AS break outside of the Grizzlies game.
Spurs are a middle tier -15th-18th defense when DeJounte is off the floor. They are 1st in defense when he's on the floor. But you guys want to just point at his inconsistent jumper as the reason to say he's not ready.
I think we all realize his contributions right now are on the defensive side. But lately we’ve needed late game scoring and Parker is just better at running the offense. Not that Parker is a superstar, he’s just got experience and other teams respect his scoring ability.Quote:
Originally Posted by MaNu4Tres
I view it like this: Offense now accounts for more than 50% of the game, especially as a starting PG (unless you have 2 dynamic wings and can get away with a 3 and D type), since their defensive impact is relatively minimal. Next to IQ, I consider range shooting, specifically of the pull up variety, the next most important skill. Him having no semblance of it outweighs everything else (not necessarily in relation to Parker and Mills, but in a big picture sort of way) and it'll only become more glaring when Leonard returns and he has to play off ball more frequently.Quote:
Originally Posted by MaNu4Tres
Initially its weird to me that anyone could look at Murray and think he's not doing great for his age. Then I realize this is Spurstalk. Murray is going to be a great PG for a long time in this league.Quote:
Originally Posted by MaNu4Tres
And at the same time, Murray has advantages on offense -- in transition pushing the pace..finding open 3s, optimizing 2nd chance opportunities which he provides on the offensive glass. Not to mention his improvement in the PnR in the past 2 months.Quote:
Originally Posted by cd98
Parker has actually been just as, if not more inconsistent as Murray is in the PnR the past few months. The Grizzlied game just clouds that reality.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaNu4Tres
I agree with you assessment with his defensive intangibles..he’s already the best rebounding Spur guard in history..he’s getting better attacking and finishing and love how he pushes the pace...
Adding a jumper when they go under the screen will take him to the “superstar potential”.. it will come in time but it’s the only thing holding him back from taking him to next level shit
Elite offense, I agree. Inconsistent O that TP or Mills provides is no where near as valuable as what DeJounte provides in other areas.Quote:
Originally Posted by TD 21
Spurs O rating decreases only 1 point when Murray is on the floor vs when he's off.
The amount that Murray has improved on offense over the course of the season is rather extraordinary. He was reluctant to put up any shots at all early in the year and now he's got a fairly decent touch shot/floater in close. His complete lack of a jumper is a problem, but that was a huge problem for early Parker too. If and when Murray develops a decent jumper then he's going to be a really good guard.
The league is chock full of good offensive guards though. It isn't full of good defenders at the 1, so I'm happy to have one on this team.
He's actually been shooting the midrange more the past month, and making them too.Quote:
Originally Posted by MannyIsGod
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Originally Posted by TD 21
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Originally Posted by MaNu4Tres
i hate when ppl say Parker is better at running the offense....OF COURSE he is! he was running that same offense for over a decade...he would be better at running it than almost anyone else in the NBA, especially a 21 year old pg that barely played his rookie year...he is better for the spurs than parker...parker is too inconsistent offensively...murray is at least great on defense and pushes the pace on offense when kawhi comes back...plus is more attractive for free agents than an old parker
when parker was 21 the offense was 4 down....throw the ball to timmy and space the floor....TP was no point guard either at that age.
TP is a top 5 - 10 PG all time but at 21 his signature move was a tear drop floater....It wasn't until his 5th season he became elite in the paint.
DJ needs time..He's a combo guard and has shown enough since we started to showcase him
Precisely. Which is relevant to the current situation.
i hate when ppl say Parker is better at running the offense....OF COURSE he is! he was running that same offense for over a decade...he would be better at running it than almost anyone else in the NBA, especially a 21 year old pg that barely played his rookie year...he is better for the spurs than parker...parker is too inconsistent offensively...murray is at least great on defense and pushes the pace on offense when kawhi comes back...plus is more attractive for free agents than an old parker
LolQuote:
Originally Posted by duncan2k5
Bball idk about his lifeQuote:
Originally Posted by superbigtime
Agreed, could used him some more, they placed all the chips on Murray.Quote:
Originally Posted by sasaint
What a scrub, ruined the game in 3 consecutive times...
average PG at best, never is going to be a top 15 point guard in this league. trade him before his rookie contract ends and he becomes a negative asset. MVParker was running circles around him at the same age, and at 37 he's still better :lol
I don't want to be too hard on him, but he certainly played his role in the collapse.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikeanaro
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Originally Posted by SuperCam
Yep. That late turnover really hurt.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chinook
This IG street baller got taught how to play the game by Jamal Crawford, sons.... loser teaching his losing ways to young kids smh.
14-17 record when he starts. At some point it's not a coincidence anymore.
That, and then the next possession he wanted to get it back so he put up one of his floaters from 10 feet on a poor angle and missed. Maybe he will learn.Quote:
Originally Posted by BillMc
Why wasn’t Parker in the 4th quarter?
He made killer mistakes at the end tonight. But without playing tonight we lose by double digits
Let's hope.Quote:
Originally Posted by sasaint
This. Pop gotta be in teaching mode over winsQuote:
Originally Posted by Chinook
growing pains tbh
Learning to close out games & helps with a mini tank to end the season
Murray played very well, tbh..his coach should have saved him from himself and benched him down the stretch, though, this isn't time for learning, they're trying to make the playoffs..
Gay or Tony over Mills was the call. DeJounte played a great game.Quote:
Originally Posted by HarlemHeat37
He had 1 unforced turnover late when the weakside defender made a great play after Murray picked up his dribble and then missed a floater. Everyone else that closed didn't make plays either.
Patty Mills is leading the team in minutes the past 6 games. And people wonder why they are giving up 110 + points the past 6 games.
Teaching moment for him. Only way to learn how to handle really tight defense in 4th Q is to be put in those situations...Quote:
Originally Posted by sammy
Until the last 4 min. Then he lost game for sa. TradeQuote:
Originally Posted by HarlemHeat37
Wait... Of all the players last night... Ur blaming Murray for the loss? Lol... Ok broQuote:
Originally Posted by Mikeanaro
That's what these idiots don't get... Murray was one of the better players last night... We would have been destroyed otherwise... Patty played much worse, but Murray is the scapegoat... Go figureQuote:
Originally Posted by emanueldavidginobili
We are so used to Tony, we forget his growing pains... Parker couldn't even close games when he was the same age... Dude had to be benched for speedy Claxton in crunch time... How quickly we forget...
Parker was one of the main reasons for Spurs' '02/'03 success, while Speedy rode the bench injured for half of the season, then barely played when he was healthy.Quote:
Originally Posted by duncan2k5
Tony was playing so well in the Finals in the early games, that some commentators said he was a candidate Finals MVP.
Speedy did come in 4th qtr in the Finals, game 6?, hit a couple jumpers, then essentially disappeared from the NBA.
It's a myth that Speedy closed lots of games while Tony sat.
[QUOTE=duncan2k5;9311313].. We would have been destroyed otherwise../QUOTE]
You have no idea what would have happened if murray got a dnp. Fact is he lost the game for sa with his play at the end. Not smart. Not a pg. Just an overhyped nba player. Sad the media makes you think these bums are skilled
I thought overall he had a good game. Those offensive rebounds late killed us.
Spurs played a good game against a team with three all stars. They lost in the end bc they don’t have a closer. Instead, the ball is in the hands of people that can’t close. Once LMA was doubled, it was easy to see everyone else didn’t know how to make a play in crunch time against a good defense playing at home.
I understand that Pop is trying to keep him in as a teaching moment but every loss keeps us from making the playoffs, enough! This is the time where you put in the vets to close the game out, Parker, Gay and Manu! :bang GSW are not as good as they think they are when they barely beat a injury-riddled team with all of their stars except for Curry smh!
Ur guy's logic is disappointing... Keep Tony as the closer till he retires? How well do u think that will work out? How will the new pg ever learn? Tp got the luxury of playing through his growing pains as a young PG... The backsweep choke VS Lakers in 04, the bad stints in the 4th VS the nets until he had to be bailed out by speedy... And in all these he was older and much more experienced than Murray... He wasn't even one of our most important players VS the pistons in 05...he took time... So to pile on Murray for being left in during the fourth so he can learn to close in pressure moments is hypocritical... And let's not pretend prime Parker never played during some epic choke jobs... It happens... Especially when you're 21...besides he played good! Dude was one of the best players on the team this game, yet ppl look only at him as the scapegoat...Quote:
Originally Posted by cd98
Not sure the Parker one is a fair comparison. For one, Parker had a lot of league competition in Europe before he got here, even at 19. And secondly, Parker when here had Prime TD, Robinson etc. We have a crybaby who fakes a limp because he wants to go to Disneyland
I'm not taking up for Parker in my post, though any suggestion that Parker was not one of the most important player in 05 is ignorant. Maybe he didn't average 30 points in that low scoring series, but he played well against a great defensive team and did what Pop wanted. Let me guess, you wanted Beno so he could develop experience? Even when he couldn't dribble the ball past Lindsey Hunter? And you need to re-watch 03 from the first round to the playoffs. To say Parker was less than essential in that run stretches credibility. Kidd couldn't guard Parker, Nets had to take him off Parker and use Kerry Kittles, who had success. If Kidd, the runner up to MVP that year, had stayed on Parker, Parker would have dominated that entire series.Quote:
Originally Posted by duncan2k5
Spurs went with Murrey to protect the lead with a defensive unit and it failed. But I'm not putting the loss on Murrey. We only have one legit closer on this team and he's only played 9 games. Asking any other Spur (except maybe LMA...but he's going to be double teamed) to close consistently is unfair because they don't have it. It's not in the DNA of anyone else on the roster except Manu and Parker, but they lost closer status 2-3 years ago or more. That's why this team is a fringe playoff team.
True.Quote:
Originally Posted by duncan2k5
Spurs have to continue to develop him. The team isn’t going to pick up a star PG in FA and while they have tried to trade for one (Kyrie) they didn’t have the pieces to make it work. Developing is the only way to go.
Murray is the only player who even could evolve into a star. His lack of skill obscures his development , he was very raw at 19. All our other young players are not young, even white is a question Mark.
Someone tell Murray to watch film of his flaws not his highlights.
What's the Paddy excuse? How many times does a player have to be atrocious at everything to still get the opportunity to close out games?Quote:
Originally Posted by duncan2k5
Not to mention, how he shot the Spurs out of the playoffs in 2012, 2015, 2016 vs LAC & OKC two times.Quote:
Originally Posted by duncan2k5
People forget about that.
BillMc,Quote:
Originally Posted by BillMc
It did. And while I'm not wanting to sound like a Murray apologist, when a point guard picks up his dribble and is in obvious trouble, it's like a QB in football who is in trouble. Time for receivers to break off their routes and bail him out any way they can. Green slowly jogs by to get in position for a pass. But he reacts way too slowly and does not go right by DJ, closely so DJ can give him the handoff/short pass. Additionally with Patty on the floor the defenses are so obviously adjusting it cramps up the offense so badly.
I'm just sayin. Yes, a good part of it is DJs inexperience. However a lot of it is also such a jacked up offense stategy and on most games 2018 Patty is not only not helping but he is a major hindrance.
Fatheads reluctance to shoot and/or even handle the ball is at times also almost creating a 4 on 5 scene on O.
He also very often hot-potatoes the ball over to someone with less then 4 seconds on the shot clock. Someone who is NOT open. Rather Fathead in effect saying "Uh I don't wanna be caught with the ball -here you take it."
Patty has no excuse... Dude is trash... Basura... PoopQuote:
Originally Posted by Hoops Czar
PPl don't care about facts bro... Murray is the scapegoat and that's thatQuote:
Originally Posted by MaNu4Tres
You pulled that out of your ass. Gtfo.Quote:
Originally Posted by MaNu4Tres
Parker, Timmy, and Jackson all did enough to win that series. Unfortunately some balding faggot shat the bed in the closing game with 10 points on 4/12 shooting and a -14. Got completely embarrassed by Harden.
Kyle also picked up his dribble in a game against Utah and it caused a TO, but same as you mention for Dijon, he took a lot of crap about it and no one came to bail him out either. everyone stood around. Patty, who he was looking to come get the ball didn't even move. Mistakes were made by both guys, but the team also wasn't aware of situation to come and help... and they have to know, neither Kyle, nor DJ is Kawhi who is going to dominate successfully. The teammates have to be ready to help out... sometimes they aren't.Quote:
Originally Posted by MultiTroll
I am fine with letting them struggle through their issues. First of all bc the veterans have struggled about the same. They have still lost games when Pop benched Kyle in the 4th Q or DJ.. so what is the point? These two are young and learning, heck Manu may retire.
What? he took the plane and crashed it to the fucking mountain, what game were you watching?Quote:
Originally Posted by duncan2k5
So he was the worst player last night then?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikeanaro
Haters gonna hate