In order:
TD
David
Manu
Ice
Tony
Mitch
Moore
after that, you pickem.
LMA is headed that way maybe, KL has turned into a dick but he is in the top 8 or 10. Alvin too.
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In order:
TD
David
Manu
Ice
Tony
Mitch
Moore
after that, you pickem.
LMA is headed that way maybe, KL has turned into a dick but he is in the top 8 or 10. Alvin too.
I mean, we still don’t know much about Kawhi’s situation so yeah just sayin’
Is Artis Gilmore in that category as well?
lmao Kawhi not being a top 6 in franchise history
Worst Spurs:. Lauvergne, mahinimi, ayres, quitter leanard, scola, sjax pt 2
And the worst was vspan
Ban this dolt. Lma means and has meant more to franchise than kl. U dumbQuote:
Originally Posted by r0drig0lac
LMA did more? Let me see...Quote:
Originally Posted by tholdren
LMA was guarding and attacking LeBron in 2014? Was LMA the Spurs' leading scorer in the last 3 games of 5 Finals games? Or it was Kawhi that guy.
LMA helped the Spurs to win 5?
LMA was DPOY in two seasons in a row playing for the Spurs?
LMA was top 3 MVP candidate in two consecutive seasons?
LMA led the Spurs to WCF last year?
LMA was a beast on both ends winning games against full Warriors? Or he just disappeared w/o Kawhi vs healthy Warriors in last playoffs?
You should learn how to troll before posting
I think you could do this in tiers.Quote:
Originally Posted by bigfan
Duncan as #1 and Robinson as #2 seem pretty clear cut.
3,4,5 ....I think could be any order of Manu, Parker, and Ice.
6-10 ...several players in that discussion. Leonard has to be in that group with Mitch, Moore, Gilmore, Elliott, and some others.
I don't think LMA is in that group though.
that quitter and faker? LOLQuote:
Originally Posted by r0drig0lac
Kawhi is top 5 in franchise history tbh. LMA is top 10 and can continue to climb. He has gained a ton of respect from me this season.
Nah..LMA couldn't beat Tiago in those playoffs and you expect he beat LeBron?Quote:
Originally Posted by hemann82
Plus, he has benn horrible the few times he guarded LeBron. He would have collected dozen of fouls...
https://pm1.narvii.com/6495/701722be...5563e64_hq.jpg
No one could have done Kawhi job against Bron in those Finals.
No Kawhi, no 5.
With LMA we'd avoid 6 because pop would keep his jump shooting big in the game to rebound, tbqh
1. Duncan
2. Leonard
3. Robinson
4. Parker
5. Aldridge
Not included: players from the white guy one hand dribble era and stat padders who faced backups
only Kawhi can go all the way against Lebron in the league (Durant needs a ultra stacked team)Quote:
Originally Posted by YGWHI
I'd put Ice above Manu because Ice actually had to carry the team.
Kawhi is not there yet. This is insulting for DRob. There are no Spurs without David, he was also my dad's favorite playerQuote:
Originally Posted by TheGreatYacht
But if Kawhi stays healthy next 5 seasons...That would be a different story. Who knows.
:tuQuote:
Originally Posted by r0drig0lac
:clawQuote:
Originally Posted by YGWHI
Kawhi is top 5. Anyone who says otherwise is just a bitter hater.
When KL is back in the lineup next year kicking ass, all these bitter little sh!ts in here better stop posting.
Timmy
Manu
Parker
LMA
Robinson
Gervin
1. Drob
2. TD
3. Gervin
4. Manu
5. Parker
6. T. Cummings
7. Kwahi
You are so dumb. 10 k terrible takes. On the same turd as ygwhi. Just idiotic in st.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed Helicopter Jones
:lol As if this season magically cancels out the previous six for Leonard.
Acting like in those 6 kl was the best player on a team that rang....Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcadian
Is carmelo top 5 in knick history?Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcadian
Manu is ahead of D-Rob; I've said so a million times. Sorry, but you don't put Horace Grant ahead of Scottie Pippen.Quote:
Originally Posted by bigfan
And the fact that I can't even think of who Mitch and Moore are off the top of my head....no.
:lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Ed Helicopter Jones
It doesn't, tbh, but we only have 1 ring to show for it... Tim by his 6th season was 2x NBA champ, 2x League MVP and that's including busting his knee midway through all that, AND had the Spurs shining as the top team in the NBA for time to come...Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcadian
I mean, I don't want to bring down Kawhi to discuss this, he's indisputably a great talent, but while it's true he revitalized the Spurs at a key time, the franchise itself doesn't have that much to show for it, tbh... unless the bar now is the regular season...
Tim is a top 5 player all time, so saying "he didn't live up to Tim" isn't exactly to declare a catastrophe.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElNono
1 ring is more than most NBA franchises claimed in the last 6 years. 4 conference finals appearances, 2 finals, and 1 rebound away from back-to-back chips. It's been a good run.
Quote:
Originally Posted by r0drig0lac
If he leaves this summer he is not
I'd say my Top
1. TD
2. David
3. Ice
4. Tony
5. Kawhi
6. Manu
7. LMA
8. Sean
9. Bruce
10. Moore
Like I said I'm not going to shit on him to prop up somebody else, tbh, but nobody remembers 2nd place...Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcadian
James Silas should be in the discussion too
Just curious: what's your reason behind putting Kawhi before Manu? I love Leonard and what he has done for us. Hope he'll get his hit togerther and kicks ass for the Spurs for a long, long time. But imo, he hasn't done yet what Manu has done for the franchise. Is it because of the FMVP and/or the DPOYs?Quote:
Originally Posted by BillMc
Manu is my second favorite player all time behind Timmy, so I won't EVER say anything negative about him. But, yes, the FMVP and DPOYs, and just his general dominace (when playing) nudged him in front of Manu (and nearly Tony) if I am objective. Manu, Tony and Kawhi can almost be ranked in any order and I'd have no issue. Tony get the slight nod over Manu because of a year more service, more health, and in the 2011-2014 era with Tony as lead was a bit longer and more successful then 2008-2011 which was the time Pop tried to let Manu really take over after Timmy's prime was in slight decline. But there will be no one I'll hate to see retire more than Manu.Quote:
Originally Posted by pookenstein
Lol Manu playing against second units his whole career being ahead of FMVP Parker.
1. Duncan
2. Robinson
3. Kawhi
4. Manu
5. Gervin
97. Speedy Claxton
98. Beno Udrih
99. Patty Mills
100. Enrique Porker
9 WCF, 5 Finals, 4 Titles, 1 FMVP > 0 WCF CP0Quote:
Originally Posted by Clipper Nation
At this stage I do not rank Kawhi over Manu.Quote:
Originally Posted by BillMc
For me, right now, I'd put Manu ahead of Kawhi because of his years of service as a Spur. Leonard, if he gets his shit together and continues to dominate fools for us, is certainly on the path to surpass Ginobili as well as TP. I'm with you (and your reasoning) ranking Tony slightly higher than Manu.Quote:
Originally Posted by BillMc
:toast
I was going to question as well why Kawhi ahead of Manu but good point.Quote:
Originally Posted by BillMc
I still put Manu ahead for his overall impact and length as a spur, but if Kawhi stays a couple more years a least I might change my pov...
:lol You do realize that I'm far from a CP0 apologist, right? Both of these guys are losers. You could put Porker on the Hornets and Clippers in place of CP0 and they would still lose the same way. Don't confuse being carried by Duncan/Manu/Kawhi and bailed out by the backup PGs with earning it.Quote:
Originally Posted by SASdynasty!
You don’t have RJefferson anywhere? Long b4 I watched the Spurs but fans always have a beef with him.Quote:
Originally Posted by K...
Scoooooooooooola thread!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by K...
I apologize, I don't think I've never read one of your posts...but I'll take your response as meaning that you're likely one of those folks I'm referring to.Quote:
Originally Posted by tholdren
Quote:
Originally Posted by sasaint
Quote:
Originally Posted by pookenstein
:toast I can certainly respect all of your opinions. If Kawhi stays he pass Tony in my book, if he leaves he could even drop.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pauleta14
Manu is like the most decorated spur with chanpionships and ind awards outside of the nba. How do you rank a media hyped tim successor and james rival over someone who is more decorated, and gave up individual personal accolades in the nba to come off bench..?Quote:
Originally Posted by BillMc
That just means you're ignorant tbh.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spurtacular
Decorated and influential - if you're thinking globally and not NBA-centricly. I don't know who actually was the first to employ the Euro-step, but I feel pretty confident in saying it was Manu who brought it to widespread use.Quote:
Originally Posted by tholdren
Good lord am I going to have to defend my rankings on this forever?:lolQuote:
Originally Posted by tholdren
I guess if you add the FMVP, DPOYs, multiple all defensive teams, and 2 first team All NBA, they outweigh Manu's NBA awards . And Manu's accomplishments outside the NBA would not count in a Spurs ranking. Obviously, Manu has been a lock for the HOF since the 2004 Olympics, his complete legacy is amazing. But international play is irrelevant to his ranking exclusively as a SA player.
As I said once Tony, Manu and Kawhi are effectively a dead heat for me. Manu and Tony have longer contributions, Kawhi's I feel shone brighter but over a much shorter period of time.
Okay, Bill, if non-Spurs accomplishments are not thrown in the mix, how did LMA get so high on the list?Quote:
Originally Posted by BillMc
Second best player on 2 60 win teams, including a team record 67 wins, carried us this season. The fact that he's dragging us into the playoffs on his back pretty much by himself is something no one below him on my list has done. Will be All NBA 2nd team or so this year. Was All NBA 3rd team his first year. Nobody on the list below him (Sean, Bruce, Moore) can say that.Quote:
Originally Posted by sasaint
i guess thats why i rate lma higher than kl. Hes doing this by himself with this garbage group. Reminds me of d rob. Can carry a team to playoffs cant close the deal. Kl never led spurs to anything as the man.Quote:
Originally Posted by BillMc
Yeah, it does have a d rob feel to it. AgreedQuote:
Originally Posted by tholdren
Good narrative. Good defense. :toast I guess I would give some weight to those "Spurs as Spurs milestones" and such. It seems kinda weird putting a guy on our all-time list who still spent twice as long on another team. You make a good case for the "quality" - even if I have qualms about his fourth quarter "quality." But I would factor in a little more "quantity."Quote:
Originally Posted by BillMc
Jesus Christ on some of you underrating Ice so badly..
He is a career 25 PPG scorer. Scored 33 PPG one year.. Has more career points than TD..
It should be
TD
David
Ice as the obvious top 3.. After that you can debate it all you want..
That's exactly what I haveQuote:
Originally Posted by dbreiden83080
:toast Understood. Different ways of looking at it.Quote:
Originally Posted by sasaint
People having Manu at 3 is like huh? The rings cloud judgement.Quote:
Originally Posted by BillMc
I would say Manu/Parker interchangable at 4/5. Anyone putting Kiwi ahead of lifelong warriors Parker/Manu is fucking retarded. At this point, if Kiwi bolted he wouldnt even get his jersey retired.Quote:
Originally Posted by dbreiden83080
Tony being “carried”:Quote:
Originally Posted by Clipper Nation
2014:
Spurs All-Stars: Tony Parker
Spurs All-NBA Players: Tony Parker
Spurs Scoring Leader (RS): Tony Parker
Spurs Assist Leader (RS): Tony Parker
Spurs Scoring Leader (Playoffs): Tony Parker
Spurs Assist Leader (Playoffs) Tony Parker
Spurs Scoring Leader (Finals): Tony Parker
That one season he averaged 33PPG, he actually attempted almost 25 shots a game... that's ridiculous... TD's highest FGA in a season is 18 in 2001-2002... His FGA are in line with chuckers like Iverson...Quote:
Originally Posted by dbreiden83080
Raw stats are terrible for this kind of comparisons unless you put some context to it, tbh...
Ice is the most efficient scoring guard in NBA history......a career 25 PPG scorer on 51% shooting.Quote:
Originally Posted by dbreiden83080
He was a chucker, tbh... he averaged almost 20 shots per game in his career... in today's NBA, he would be terrible, a career 27% 3 point shooter...Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas82
He was talented, but it was his show... which in the game of basketball rarely translates into championships...
That's it and that's all!!Quote:
Originally Posted by dbreiden83080
IMO, you gotta give it to the guys that brought the most for the franchise, putting their ego aside to get it done:
TD (silent leader)
DRob (the big architect of culture)
Manu (selfless star)
Parker (steady hand)
then the rest are a tier below, tbh...
Heck, TD bolts to Orlando and this team is in Seattle now, we're trying to rank Ice next to Gary Payton, tbh...
1. Duncan - Obviously
2. Robinson - Won a league MVP, defensive player of the year, scoring title. Lead the spurs to a WCF.
3. Gervin - Was before my time but I have looked him up. He lead the league in scoring 4 times. Was a 9 time NBA all-star and lead the Spurs to a WCF in which they lost to the Lakers in 6 games.
4. I have Manu and Tony tied here. I feel they were equally as important for different reasons.
5. Kawhi- If he stays here longer and is healthy I believe he has a good chance of jumping to number 2. Only reason I have Manu and Tony ranked ahead of him is due to longevity.
He may have taken a lot of FGA's but he was efficient. I looked up his FG percentage and he shot above 50 percent 6 times while he was in the NBA. Also all the scoring titles he won were shooting above 50 percent. The other season he didn't shoot 50 he barely missed the mark and shot around 48-49 percent. That is very impressive for a volume scorer.Keep in mind I'm factoring in his NBA numbers and not his ABA numbers.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElNono
That's all great, but volume shooters/one trick ponies seldom are enough to win in this sport, tbh... Even Jordan knew when the pass to Kerr, or same with TD and a lot of other greats... that's understanding the game beyond personal numbers.Quote:
Originally Posted by daslicer
Are we building this list on pure individual talent alone? In that case, Moses Malone should probably be around the top, regardless if he was fairly done by the time he played for the Spurs, tbh...
IMO, the only way a 'Best Spurs' list makes sense is as far as what they have given to the franchise, regardless of their individual numbers. Guys like Manu and even Tony could've probably have had a shorter, but better number-wise careers in another team. It was that kind of sacrifice that elevates them, because it's possible neither was more talented or efficient than Iceman, but they had a much deeper understanding of what it takes to win in this game.
Ice also lead the Spurs to 2 straight WCFs against the Lakers in the 80's. I don't think Manu or Tony could have ever done that if they were the main guys and they are not playing with Duncan. Moses Malone was washed up when he was with the Spurs so that's a terrible example to put up there. For me when it comes to ranking all time spurs it comes down to how talented you were during your time with the spurs and winning.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElNono
Well, certainly everybody is entitled to their standards. Personally, this is a game you play to win the championship, IMO. Nobody remembers #2 and down.Quote:
Originally Posted by daslicer
I didn't rank DRob #2 because he was an incredibly talented athletic freak that could drop 71 points in a game, but because he was aware of his limitations as a leader and was humble enough to realize that having Tim hold the torch was more important than himself or his numbers. And the franchise didn't just benefit from that, but built a culture around it. You can't put a number on that one... or you can: 5 championships, tbh, which IMO is all that matters.
Nobody plays any D today, and even when you try the refs won't allow it. Ice averages 40 today..Quote:
Originally Posted by ElNono
And Russ put up 24 FGA last year. So Ice would be swimming in MVP votes.
Players were not tossing up 50 threes a game back then. With the emphasis on the 3 today, he would have been much better from there. Great players adapt..Quote:
Originally Posted by ElNono
I think manu is a better all around player. Gervin was a great scorer but he took 20 plus shots a game. Id take manu between the 2. I prefer guys who can do it all. Not sure if gervin could make his teammates better.Quote:
Originally Posted by daslicer
Gervin was incredibly talented. Put him on the Spurs of Timmy and Pop in the heyday and they would clean up. Duncan never played with anyone like that in their prime. Manu is a very good player, but to me not a hall of famer and neither is Tony. Basketball is the easiest sport to get in the hall, where as Baseball seems to be the hardest. We have pitchers with 250 plus wins still waiting for their phone to ring. Posada won 4 rings with the Yankees, and he was off the ballot in year 1.. I like it to be hard to make the HOF. Players like Grant Hill should not be in the Hall. Great talent but injuries cut him short and he did not accomplish enough. Manu is a good number 2, and he played on great teams with a top 10 player all time in his prime. He won a lot. But I look at his numbers and it does not say Hall of Fame to me. He is a borderline case IMO, that will get in easily mostly because it is so easy to get in.. They also look at international things where Manu did clean up. But 99% of his career was on an NBA court..Quote:
Originally Posted by tholdren
Grant absolutely deserves to be in the hall. It is the basketball HOF not the NBA HOf. He had a fantastic college career that really is enough to get him in, as well as gold on the Olympics. Then add 7 years as sort of a proto-LeBron in the NBA before the injuries hit and Grant deserved his selection.Quote:
Originally Posted by dbreiden83080
I think the NBA should have a separate HOF.. I don't like this idea that you won a Gold Medal or an NCAA title and in spite of a less than stellar injury riddled pro career you are in the HOF. Grant did not have a great pro career. Players that played 99% of their time in the NBA, to me that is what needs to count the most. Grant Hill gets in I suppose in part for his college success. But Webber is still out and Webber did a little more in the pro's IMO. So if Webber won 1 of those 2 title games, with Michigan is he in? It is pretty inconsistent. We have too many players with less than stellar pro careers going in. Not happening in other sports. In the NFL Eli Manning has 2 Superbowl wins and MVP's and still I hear that he is borderline HOF material, because of advanced metrics and what not, and he ranks mediocre according to them. Basketball is putting guys in with no rings, and stats that do not warrant induction.Quote:
Originally Posted by BillMc
Gervin took 20 plus shots a game. There would be no beautiful game. And duncan would look like 2nd fiddle to the ppg crowd. But i agree, very talented scorer. There are plays that manu and tim made that never show up on box score, gervin didnt have that in other aspects of his game.Quote:
Originally Posted by dbreiden83080
Kawhi'd is the new Munsoned
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lIFItbwqVA
You put him in the Spurs culture at that time he would adjust. I am sure he would be great.Quote:
Originally Posted by tholdren
Kawhi is a dick for being injured? u guys are sick...u really dont care for ppl's health
Well then he has one of the most mysterious leg injuries in the history of leg injuries. And playing with pain is part of pro sports. He is going to have one short career if in his mind, "I will only play if i am 100%" Should retire now..Quote:
Originally Posted by duncan2k5
Ice's resume is too good for him not to be number 3 on all-time spurs list. I'm not even factoring his ABA success just his NBA success in this argument. The spurs while ICE was in the NBA had 3 50 win plus seasons, and made 3 conference finals, got out of the first round 5 times, and made the playoffs 8 out of the 9 seasons that Ice played for the NBA. Ice had all this success as the number 1 option on the Spurs while Manu and Parker's success when it comes to winning is largely a by product of playing with Tim Duncan. Can't penalize Ice for not being as successful as those 2 simply because he didn't get to play with Duncan. I just don't see Manu and Tony having the type of success Ice had when it comes to winning if they didn't play with Duncan.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElNono
Ice individual success also trumps Manu and Tony. Ice made 9 all-star games, was all-nba first team 5 times, all-nba second team 2 times, 4 time scoring champ. I don't think Manu and Tony would have that type of individual success if they were unshackled and got to the be man on their own team.
Ice also has spurs cultural significance since he was the first superstar player the franchise ever had. In my eyes when you factor in cultural significance, winning, and individual success Ice can't be ranked lower than third.