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Decorated and influential - if you're thinking globally and not NBA-centricly. I don't know who actually was the first to employ the Euro-step, but I feel pretty confident in saying it was Manu who brought it to widespread use.Quote:
Originally Posted by tholdren
Good lord am I going to have to defend my rankings on this forever?:lolQuote:
Originally Posted by tholdren
I guess if you add the FMVP, DPOYs, multiple all defensive teams, and 2 first team All NBA, they outweigh Manu's NBA awards . And Manu's accomplishments outside the NBA would not count in a Spurs ranking. Obviously, Manu has been a lock for the HOF since the 2004 Olympics, his complete legacy is amazing. But international play is irrelevant to his ranking exclusively as a SA player.
As I said once Tony, Manu and Kawhi are effectively a dead heat for me. Manu and Tony have longer contributions, Kawhi's I feel shone brighter but over a much shorter period of time.
Okay, Bill, if non-Spurs accomplishments are not thrown in the mix, how did LMA get so high on the list?Quote:
Originally Posted by BillMc
Second best player on 2 60 win teams, including a team record 67 wins, carried us this season. The fact that he's dragging us into the playoffs on his back pretty much by himself is something no one below him on my list has done. Will be All NBA 2nd team or so this year. Was All NBA 3rd team his first year. Nobody on the list below him (Sean, Bruce, Moore) can say that.Quote:
Originally Posted by sasaint
i guess thats why i rate lma higher than kl. Hes doing this by himself with this garbage group. Reminds me of d rob. Can carry a team to playoffs cant close the deal. Kl never led spurs to anything as the man.Quote:
Originally Posted by BillMc
Yeah, it does have a d rob feel to it. AgreedQuote:
Originally Posted by tholdren
Good narrative. Good defense. :toast I guess I would give some weight to those "Spurs as Spurs milestones" and such. It seems kinda weird putting a guy on our all-time list who still spent twice as long on another team. You make a good case for the "quality" - even if I have qualms about his fourth quarter "quality." But I would factor in a little more "quantity."Quote:
Originally Posted by BillMc
Jesus Christ on some of you underrating Ice so badly..
He is a career 25 PPG scorer. Scored 33 PPG one year.. Has more career points than TD..
It should be
TD
David
Ice as the obvious top 3.. After that you can debate it all you want..
That's exactly what I haveQuote:
Originally Posted by dbreiden83080
:toast Understood. Different ways of looking at it.Quote:
Originally Posted by sasaint
People having Manu at 3 is like huh? The rings cloud judgement.Quote:
Originally Posted by BillMc
I would say Manu/Parker interchangable at 4/5. Anyone putting Kiwi ahead of lifelong warriors Parker/Manu is fucking retarded. At this point, if Kiwi bolted he wouldnt even get his jersey retired.Quote:
Originally Posted by dbreiden83080
Tony being “carried”:Quote:
Originally Posted by Clipper Nation
2014:
Spurs All-Stars: Tony Parker
Spurs All-NBA Players: Tony Parker
Spurs Scoring Leader (RS): Tony Parker
Spurs Assist Leader (RS): Tony Parker
Spurs Scoring Leader (Playoffs): Tony Parker
Spurs Assist Leader (Playoffs) Tony Parker
Spurs Scoring Leader (Finals): Tony Parker
That one season he averaged 33PPG, he actually attempted almost 25 shots a game... that's ridiculous... TD's highest FGA in a season is 18 in 2001-2002... His FGA are in line with chuckers like Iverson...Quote:
Originally Posted by dbreiden83080
Raw stats are terrible for this kind of comparisons unless you put some context to it, tbh...
Ice is the most efficient scoring guard in NBA history......a career 25 PPG scorer on 51% shooting.Quote:
Originally Posted by dbreiden83080
He was a chucker, tbh... he averaged almost 20 shots per game in his career... in today's NBA, he would be terrible, a career 27% 3 point shooter...Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas82
He was talented, but it was his show... which in the game of basketball rarely translates into championships...
That's it and that's all!!Quote:
Originally Posted by dbreiden83080
IMO, you gotta give it to the guys that brought the most for the franchise, putting their ego aside to get it done:
TD (silent leader)
DRob (the big architect of culture)
Manu (selfless star)
Parker (steady hand)
then the rest are a tier below, tbh...
Heck, TD bolts to Orlando and this team is in Seattle now, we're trying to rank Ice next to Gary Payton, tbh...
1. Duncan - Obviously
2. Robinson - Won a league MVP, defensive player of the year, scoring title. Lead the spurs to a WCF.
3. Gervin - Was before my time but I have looked him up. He lead the league in scoring 4 times. Was a 9 time NBA all-star and lead the Spurs to a WCF in which they lost to the Lakers in 6 games.
4. I have Manu and Tony tied here. I feel they were equally as important for different reasons.
5. Kawhi- If he stays here longer and is healthy I believe he has a good chance of jumping to number 2. Only reason I have Manu and Tony ranked ahead of him is due to longevity.
He may have taken a lot of FGA's but he was efficient. I looked up his FG percentage and he shot above 50 percent 6 times while he was in the NBA. Also all the scoring titles he won were shooting above 50 percent. The other season he didn't shoot 50 he barely missed the mark and shot around 48-49 percent. That is very impressive for a volume scorer.Keep in mind I'm factoring in his NBA numbers and not his ABA numbers.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElNono
That's all great, but volume shooters/one trick ponies seldom are enough to win in this sport, tbh... Even Jordan knew when the pass to Kerr, or same with TD and a lot of other greats... that's understanding the game beyond personal numbers.Quote:
Originally Posted by daslicer
Are we building this list on pure individual talent alone? In that case, Moses Malone should probably be around the top, regardless if he was fairly done by the time he played for the Spurs, tbh...
IMO, the only way a 'Best Spurs' list makes sense is as far as what they have given to the franchise, regardless of their individual numbers. Guys like Manu and even Tony could've probably have had a shorter, but better number-wise careers in another team. It was that kind of sacrifice that elevates them, because it's possible neither was more talented or efficient than Iceman, but they had a much deeper understanding of what it takes to win in this game.
Ice also lead the Spurs to 2 straight WCFs against the Lakers in the 80's. I don't think Manu or Tony could have ever done that if they were the main guys and they are not playing with Duncan. Moses Malone was washed up when he was with the Spurs so that's a terrible example to put up there. For me when it comes to ranking all time spurs it comes down to how talented you were during your time with the spurs and winning.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElNono
Well, certainly everybody is entitled to their standards. Personally, this is a game you play to win the championship, IMO. Nobody remembers #2 and down.Quote:
Originally Posted by daslicer
I didn't rank DRob #2 because he was an incredibly talented athletic freak that could drop 71 points in a game, but because he was aware of his limitations as a leader and was humble enough to realize that having Tim hold the torch was more important than himself or his numbers. And the franchise didn't just benefit from that, but built a culture around it. You can't put a number on that one... or you can: 5 championships, tbh, which IMO is all that matters.