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Starting Line-up:
Dejounte
DeRozan
Gay
LaMarcus
Gasol
Bench:
White/ Forbes
Mills/ Lonnie
Bellineli/ Cunningham
Bertans/ Metu
Poetl
The bench is catered for Derrick White. Bunch of shooters, gives him space to create. He is going to be the surprise of the year. Honestly, I feel Gay should come off the bench instead of Bellineli. That way Derrick can thrive with a slashing wingman he can pass to.
Don't want Gay to start. That's even more true now that Manu retired. I love White having a wide-open PnR unit too, but giving him Gay to take some of the pressure off him feels better.
Also balances the defense of the second unit too. Gay is a solid defender.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chinook
the starting unit has no efficient 3pt shooters man
White isn't just going to jump over Forbes in the rotation unless he is spectacular in the pre season.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dejounte
If that's the initial starting line-up, it won't last long.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dejounte
Watch for Murray and DeRozan's improvement in that area.Quote:
Originally Posted by TDMVPDPOY
I agree, I fully expect Derrick White to surprise people. I truly believe he should start at the 2 and let DeRozan play Small Forward.
If Derrick starts, his skillset won't be utilized. He's best with the ball in his hands and making things happen... Like Manu.Quote:
Originally Posted by Truth4sale$
derrick white needs a haircut...dude's hairline is atrocious
White starting at SG makes a lot of sense. He can shoot, he can penetrate, he moves the ball, and he's a quality defender. Spurs eon't have to sacrifice any size on the court.
BUT the bench then becomes a big problem without Manu. Nobody can run an offense or make plays with the ball, no creativity, nothing.
Mills is trash, he can't make plays, he is no threat to finish, he needs to be set up, his pick and roll handling is remedial at best.
Marco has always been vastly overrated as a playmaker and ball handler, he can't do it well.
Forbes has no chance.
Walker isn't ready but even if he was he won't get a chance.
Gay is an iso player and finisher.
Even moving Pau to the bench while helping isn't enough.
Either there's going to be some heavy staggering to make sure either White or Murray or DeRozan is on the court at all times or ...
What probably happens instead is that Mills starts with Murray and is typically awful while Marco and Forbes play big minutes off the bench. White will busy getting over himself with DNP-CDs.
I honestly think Pop will try some different lineups towards the beginning of the season and see what sticks.
Opening night I would guess it'll look something like
Murray
Mills
DeRozan
Aldridge
Gasol
That lineup would have the most continuity on a team with a lot of new players (except you're adding DDR) so it somewhat makes sense early on.
People don't give enough credit to Derrick's playmaking. I watched all of summer league. He is a wizard with the ball.
Yet Pop and most ST posters want to stick him at SG and use Dijon at PG - even though Dijon hasn't got White's handles, court vision or passing ability.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dejounte
Assuming Patty starts at the 2 then I think White's the backup PG and will assume Ginobili's role and might be part of the reason why Ginobili feels ok about retiring this offseason.
I remember when forby was the natural born shooter. :lmao
Solid contribution. GTFOH.Quote:
Originally Posted by Genovaswitness
Only thing of him that might erupt is his acne.
White is going to surprise a lot of people this year. No one outside the Spurs organization knows this guy exist
I think I remember Gasol hitting a couple treys back in 1964.Quote:
Originally Posted by TDMVPDPOY
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dejounte
I'm all aboard the Derrick train as far as his skills; playmaking and shooting.Quote:
Originally Posted by sasaint
But the fact is that if he's going to play real minutes it can only happen next to Murray.
If Murray plays 32 mpg, that only leaves 16 minutes of back up point. For White to get real minutes, he needs to play at least some with Murray.
And if he starts at two that's a good thing, because he's a better defender by far than Marco or Mills or Forbes.
White is such a complete player that he can play and contribute in any role, but he has to play to contribute.
depending on how walker's pre-season and camp go, he may be the one to benefit the most from manu's retirement.
If Lonnie shows out in training camp, Lonnie would fit better w/ the starters.Quote:
Originally Posted by objective
On offense LMA, DeRozan, & Murray would be taking up most of the play making w the ball. LW would fit better off the ball, spotting up/attacking closeouts/crashing glass. His responsibilities wld be simplified.
On defense, LW is a better fit with the starters next to DeRozan -- since hes longer and has a higher ceiling as a perimeter wing defender than anyone on the roster.
Derrick White would be perfect in the Manu role off the bench getting 25-30 mpg -- since hes at his best with the ball in his hands in PnRs. Something the bench will desperately need with Patty getting minutes at PG. And it optimizes Derricks touches.
With Manu gone, I still think the following breakdowns make the most sense:
Murray / Derozan / Bertans / Aldridge / Poetl
Plenty of scoring with DDR and LMA. Murray will do his thing. Bertans is obviously the weak link here, particularly on defense...but he will have Aldridge and Poetl to help cover for him, and he wouldn't be as undersized as Beli would be at the 3. Davis also provides shooting that is sorely needed with this unit. Poetl can focus on doing the dirty work in the post and score off cuts and putbacks.
Mills / White / Beli / Gay / Gasol
White can run the offense, which allows Mills to play off-ball where he is better suited. Beli can spread the floor and also help with playmaking. Gay will have the freedom to go iso and do his thing without getting in Aldridge/Derozan's way. Pau is too slow to handle most starting units, but he could still be effective against most benches.
I really want to see that lineup. I just don't think Bertans has the speed and discipline on D to play the 3, especially as a starter.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dex
That's fair, but I think I've seen Pop's act with new players enough that even if Walker excels in camp, which is no given, I don't expect him to get a real chance in season regardless.Quote:
Originally Posted by MaNu4Tres
I agree with OP's idea of what the opening night lineup might look like since this is Pop's fall-back security/safe lineup of vets mixed with corporate knowledge, if you will. But as Pop begins to tinker with the lineups, hopfully LW lV can prove himself (if he's not in the ATX), as a good defender who makes smart decisions, as per Pop's philosophy (his scoring abilities can progress with time, just as it was with Nephew. (At least LW IV appears to be more athletic than he was at this point). But along with Poeltl, who can also be instrumental in SAS's defense & pick in roll, I believe he would also be a great addition to the starting lineup as well, but again, both these guys will have to prove themselves to Pop, & gain his trust, which is always a key factor to him, too. GSG!!!
I think Mills probably starts with Murray, DDR, LMA and Gasol and Gay is the get bucket guy with the bench unit alongside White, Beli, Gay, Bertans, and PoeltlQuote:
Originally Posted by Chinook
Pau's a better shooter than Bertans and a comparable defender to Poeltl. It makes more sense to just start him, get his play-making and add another shooter. Poeltl is a PnR big, so giving him a wide-open second unit is a great way to get him acclimated to the team. I see him as a great pairing with White and Bertans as a result. On the other hand, Pau is really not a good solo big. He doesn't play well inside, doesn't really roll, doesn't rebound well enough.
Either
Murray, Mills, DeRozan, Aldridge, Gasol
Or even
Murray, DeRozan, Gay, Aldridge, Gasol
Former is the best on offense. Latter is the best on defense.
Yeah, we are really in a bind defensively at the 3. Anybody we put there is either going to be undersized (Derozan, Beli) or slow (Gay, Bertans).Quote:
Originally Posted by TimmyBuckets
I like Bertans with that unit because of his length. Even though he is not a plus defender by any means, that is a big front court with Davis, LMA, and Jakob. Their length alone will cause some issues, especially if Murray can keep up his defensive play and Demar can at least manage to not be awful.
Gay slots in well at the starting 3, but I still think he would have more freedom and be more effective with the bench unit.
White should and probably be our 6th man. If he is on fire he will be in the 4th quarter getting 2nd hand ball handling duties to DD. Hopefully DD plays more off the ball to allow Muuray and White to develop. I can see Belli starting to give us more size I. The starting line up and Mills fortifying our 2md unit with White so we can have a great bench.
Agree. That second unit reminds me of Neal/Ginobili/Jackson/Bonner/Splitter. Pretty sure that was the year Tiago led the league in FG%. I would really expect that to be the best bench in the league. I'd just be worried about the starters gelling.Quote:
Originally Posted by cd021
I think Pop is fine with playing rookies,- so long as they go through a full training camp and preseason plus if there is a role that needs filling.Quote:
Originally Posted by objective
Kawhi filled the backup SF spot, and Blair ate up minutes at PF (pun intended :lol). Splitter, had he not been IU injured early on during his rookie year probably would've been a rotation player and the Spurs might've beaten Memphis that year.
Spurs still have good guard-wing depth, so Walker probably won't play much, unless of injury. He should still get a lot more minutes than White did, but that was still super odd for Pop to not play one of the more polished Spurs rookies , almost at all last season.
I don't think I can agree with you here. Pau was highly efficient from three in 2016-2017 (.538), but only shot 1.6 a game. Last season, he attempted the exact same amount...but his percentage dropped all the way to .358. He can be a good shooter, but I still don't think he shoots enough to really give him much gravity.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chinook
Bertans, on the other hand, shot a better percentage last season (.373) on twice as many attempts (3.3) and in 9 fewer minutes per game.
I know that .373 isn't great for a guy who is supposed to be a designated sniper and doesn't do much else well (Pau definitely has him beat in passing, rebounding, and post offense)...but if we are purely talking shooting, Davis is going to get more attention on the perimeter than Pau. I think teams will live with Gasol standing 23 feet away from the basket.
For the starters, I think it will come down to whether Murray can shoot and whether DDR and LMA can both get theirs while sharing the floor.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chinook
Gasol and LMA should be able to anchor a decent defense unit with Murray assigned to the opposing PG and Mills and DDR doing their best not to get worked. Offense could be a struggle or it could be perfectly fine, but probably not in between.
That bench would have a bunch of shooting potential in White, Belinelli and Bertans with Poeltl as an athletic vertical spacer-who aggressively finishes at the rim and Gay as an post-iso threat.
Pop gives chances when he's out on the players blocking the way of rookies. Pop was out on Jefferson, who he had to waste some of his valuable summer time off on. Pop was so damn out on Jefferson that he had been benched in the plastic like playoffs by Pop that first year if I remember right.Quote:
Originally Posted by cd021
Blair had an opening in 09/10. It was Duncan, Mcdyess, and Bonner as stretch. Room for a fourth big was there for Blair because Pop was never going to give Ian the time of day, Ratliff was almost retired, and Haislip was just as new but had one foot out the door to return to Europe.
Parker got a chance because Pop never wanted Antonio Daniels to be his point guard.
But with the Walker situation ... Pop actually likes Forbes and Marco. And he LOVES Mills. He's going to give all those guys chances unless injuries create the opportunity.
Splitter should have absolutely played his rookie year, it was the height of buffoonery that he didn't. So he missed participating in most of camp, he didn't actually leave the camp. He was the MVP of the ACB for crying out loud, he was smart enough to figure things out. But it, "wouldn't be fair to the team".
Hill was light years better than elderly Vaughn, but Pop really respected Vaughn. Hill was just a rookie who couldn't be trusted with a camera phone. So the playoffs weren't for George.
Maybe there's enough injuries that open room for Walker, but it's tough. It's entirely possible in 02/03 that if Steve Smith isn't hurt to start the season that one of Manu or Jackson doesn't get in the rotation that year. But Smith was on his last leg and almost out of the league, but Mills, Marco and Forbes aren't close to retiring.
Just hope he can stay on the floor tbh. Talented and high-IQ player for sure, but he seems a bit injury-prone in the the little we’ve seen of him.
All valid. I think Forbes will get another shot at the rotation, unfortunately, but it should be White's time after having to spend a season in the G League while an inferior player played 1500 minutes for the big club.Quote:
Originally Posted by objective
There is also the school of thought that PATFO likes Walker's raw game-he can shoot, handle, freak athlete with long arms, but want him to spend much of his rookie year with Austin to continue to develop his game.
Another reason why I think the 15th spot is going to a PG.Quote:
Originally Posted by BatManu20
Manu's departure forces Pop, more than ever, to start with the traditional two bigmen lineup, imho.
Murray, Mills/Belli, DeRozan, Aldridge, Gasol
White, Mills/Belli, Gay, Bertans, Poetl
That's the only possible way to have a 10 man rotation of rotation level players.
White helps spread the floor if he is a starter, and the lack of a 3pt shooter has been the primary lineup criticism. He can hold his own on defense. But I get the argument that his playmaking ability will be needed with the bench. Because Forbes can't do it ad neither can Mills. Ok with throwing Walker IV in the deep end.
Yep. I think both the two-guard and PF spots are open to disruption by guys coming on or disappointing, but right now, those lineups give the team the best combination of talent and fit.Quote:
Originally Posted by DAF86
Pop is gonna have some trouble putting together rotations because of all the different lineup possibilities but it’s not a bad thing at all.
The only known certains are LaMarcus, DeRozan, and Murray starting.
Every else will likely change during the year.
Ugh...I like White, I do. I like what he showed in summer league. But I also liked what Anderson showed in summer league. But the NBA is not summer league and you can't feast on rookies and D-League hopefuls in the NBA. White, I hope he does well, but no telling if his game will translate to night in and night out success. Consistency is only for the best players, and I won't put him anywhere near that category until he proves it. Same can be said of Murray. If he plays well every 5 games, guess what, that's a trip to the lottery. This is going to be a disappointing season, especially if we are trusting in a first year in the system DeRozan to give us something on the level that we were getting from Kawhi.
I'm super excited for Pontdexter!!
If everyone keeps saying that, how is it a surprise?Quote:
Originally Posted by Truth4sale$
With Manu's departure we'll need some guys out there that can create shots for others. Gasol is a proven passer out of the post, hopefully DDR will be able to do that, and hopefully White. Belli is ok. It would be nice if DJ has improved in that area as well.
The same way Gasol and Aldridge started and were the two primary C's, Gay and DeRozan can do so at SF. Gay can do what Gasol often did last season: sub out mid 1st/3rd, sub back in late 1st/3rd, then sub back out early 2nd/4th, with a decision on crunch time to be made during the game.
I'm not concerned with Pop playing the seniority game between Forbes and White. The latter is the only playmaker off the bench and arguably the best perimeter defender too, while Mills and Belinelli are better versions of the former.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaNu4Tres
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaNu4Tres
:tu I remember a highly intelligent poster saying much of this, just can't quite remember who it was . . .
Yeah, Bertans is a superior shooter than Gasol for 3 reasons: volume, quickness of release, versatility (off movement).Quote:
Originally Posted by Dex
With a consistent role and alongside respectable play makers, I expect his % to reflect his ability this season.
I can’t believe Patty Mills is still on this team.