Spurs is my 2nd favorite at team, if they hope to succeed they must mirror rockets. Good thing pop didn’t meet Dantonis in playoffs as he would lose now
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Spurs is my 2nd favorite at team, if they hope to succeed they must mirror rockets. Good thing pop didn’t meet Dantonis in playoffs as he would lose now
"That wouldnt be basketball anymore" :pop:
not gonna happen :pop:
Not going to happen but we do need to make more 3 pointers. Its tough to go far when neither of our top 2 players can knock down a 3.
Rockets are damn good and that is largely because you have an MVP level player. Sa does not have that but they have better youth, more draft capital and I believe SA will be better than the Rockets over the next 2 years (not this year though).
Pop will never coach a team that shoots 50 three pointers per game, nor should he. It’s a ridiculous offense. I can see us putting up more, maybe 25-30, once the young guns come on line, but the midrange will always be needed to run a steady offense and manage the clock.
Evolve into not winning a damn thing? The fuck evolution is that?
And the Rockets will lose again at some point these playoffs shooting 1000 bad shots ultimately going cold and then going home.
The Spurs main problem is not 3 point shooting it's the fact they currently have no good perimeter defenders outside of Derrick White. Having a healthy Dejounte next year and Lonnie getting more minutes in the future should help with this problem. Spurs need to draft an SF that could be a lockdown defender.
Spurs should give away 3 NBA titles and be like the rockets -
OP is retarded.
So Spurs should have two franchise players and not ring?
You keep trying to put a positive spin on everything. Who cares if the Spurs have better youth and draft capital than the Rockets? Unless one of White, Walker or Murray becomes an MVP level player, which is obviously beyond highly unlikely, they don't even have so much as a road map back to championship contention. Meanwhile, the Rockets, like the Raptors, have it now.Quote:
Originally Posted by DPG21920
This is where we disagree. Its not a positive spin on everything; its my actual belief based on what I see. HOU won 5 more games than sa even with said MVP and SA has a much clearer path to improving than they do.Quote:
Originally Posted by TD 21
1. Via the draft
2. Internal improvement
3. Salary cap
In all 3 areas sa is in a better spot than HOU. I said HOU is really good but they are about maxed out; they can sustain but I dont see them taking any leaps. Which is fine, they dont have to in order to be a WCF caliber team.
But I think that adding White/Lonnie/Murray to the mix, 2 first round picks and more flexibility cap wise will vault sa to their level very soon.
It is. The regular season is so important that the Jazz, who had about as good or better record, point differential and SRS, as the Rockets, can't even play a competitive series with them. The Rockets ceiling is way higher than a team as flawed as the Spurs.Quote:
Originally Posted by DPG21920
Sure, but to what end? I've heard Holiday thrown around as a White ceiling recently. Let's say that's true. If that's your best player going forward, you're going nowhere in this league. Even if Walker tops it, if it can't reach MVP caliber, same result.
Nah - we have seen HOU bow out of the playoffs before and they have not made a final with Harden. SA can be a WCF if things break right and have a much clearer path to improving (but they need to since HOU is ahead).Quote:
Originally Posted by TD 21
By that same token; SA is taking on the 2nd seed and holding their own, in the playoffs, not the regular season.
So evolve to keep coming up short?
I understand his premise; hes basically saying shoot more 3’s. But HOU is literally HOU because they have an MVP with an insane usage rate which is why that system works.Quote:
Originally Posted by DJR210
Spurs could definitely build things differently but with LMA/DeRozan they can’t really do what HOU does.
What does that have to do with their current ceiling being significantly higher than the Spurs current ceiling?Quote:
Originally Posted by DPG21920
The only way the Spurs could be a WCF team, is to get lucky along the lines of the '07 Jazz or the current Trail Blazers, who are likely getting their based on how the brackets broke at the very end.
The Nuggets aren't a legit 2nd seed. Don't play that game; you're knowledgeable and rationale enough to know better.
I think you are very purposely underrating SA and teams like DEN to prop up your stance. HOU has a higher ceiling right now, no question. But IMO, even without landing a MVP, I think Murray/Lonnie/White’s ascension along with the draft and free agency favors SA.Quote:
Originally Posted by TD 21
I think that while right now HOU has a higher ceiling that within a year or two, SA will be right there even if you think it will take artificially knocking down SAs opponents.
Nothing is guaranteed obviously. SA needs to tweak this roster and get better balance. Murray/Lonnie have to be good. RC and Pop need to be smart in free agency. All those things need to happen and yes I am optimistic they will.
Even if that means moving on from DeRozan or LMA (which I think is unlikely for the reasons I have been saying). I think the plan all along was to go for it these next two years that align with LmA/DeRozan deals and hope that young guys grow and then assess fit. But SA is and can be a very good team with some tweaks right now.
I think you are being a homer. You know the Nuggets aren't a legit 2 seed. The conference has been Warriors and Rockets, then everyone else, the past 2 seasons.Quote:
Originally Posted by DPG21920
Ascension to what though? They don't have a superstar and are built too flawed in general. No amount of tweaking can fix the core.
In a best case scenario, they can essentially be the West version of the Lowry-DeRozan Raptors: A regular season team that's not built for the playoffs.
That is so wrong IMO. Murray/Lonnie/White make them better than DeRozan/Lowry Raptors especially because LMA is better than anyone they had too.Quote:
Originally Posted by TD 21
Even with their flaws, SA is a good team. Flawed, no time to plan, roster built for another type of star, losing their starting PG. All those things happened and this flawed core of DeRozan / LMA are still good.
I don’t think it’s homerish at all to be optimistic. They aren’t GS and neither is HOU, but they can get to that next tier. Especially since with White/Murray I think the defense can be legit.
And I take it that you only think HOU/GS are legit. Well, if that is the case that means SA only has to worry about them and its very possible that GS loses KD with no money to replace him.
Also, don’t get me wrong. Im not in love with this team. I am in love with the youth sa has assembled while still being a playoff team and how they have flexibility coming up in one year along with multiple first round picks.
I would not be mad if SA decided to move on from LMA/DeRozan and go a different direction. I am simply saying they are good and if they can make a few moves and the youth does what Derrick did this year then SA for the next two years can be in damn good shape.
If it fails? Ok, still have that youth and it’s only two years (really one before they have cap space) before the full on reset.
Why are so many presuming the youth will turn into stars? And even if 1-2 do, as I said and you know, unless they're superstars, the ceiling is automatically sub championship.Quote:
Originally Posted by DPG21920
Even if they're a better version of those Raptors, who cares? You seem to be in love with the idea of being the winningest loser.
The defense will still be flawed with Murray because of the lack of big wings. It's also possible (probable?) he makes the offense worse and mostly offsets the defensive upgrade.
It doesn't even matter what happens to the Warriors and Rockets. No team built this flawed is contending for a championship.
But by your logic, there are only 2 teams that matter in the West that are real. If that is the case, SA with a few things can get to the WCF. You don’t blow that type of team up.Quote:
Originally Posted by TD 21
They don’t need to be stars. I would not call White a star yet but if SA added 2 more White caliber players? That is huge. I don’t see how you can downplay that.
Regarding the defense there is the draft and free agency to help with that wing problem too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TD 21
For teams that don't have an MVP type player, the key is team cohesion and a collection of net positive players. What I like about D White is he can play with anyone. He plays D and isn't a high usage player so the team doesn't have to be designed around him. If Murray and Walker can replicate that profile, then you've got few weak links on the floor. Even when Holiday was paired with Anthony Davis, there were often at least two players on the floor that were below average, and that's where opposing teams attacked. I wasn't that high on Walker earlier in the year, but he really came on strong in the last couple of months, so I'm a lot more optimistic about him now. Aldridge and DeRozan (if they're still here next year) are still productive players despite some other issues, so it's not like they're glaring weaknesses-- if they're providing a steady 40 ppg next year and the roster around them improves through youth and one or two more useful players, I don't think an improvement of 10 regular season wins is out of the question at all.
I like Houston, but they have their issues too. For one, they're small with Paul, Gordon, Harden, and Tucker. Two, I'm never surprised by a Chris Paul injury, especially in the playoffs. Their depth is not great. And, finally, D'Antoni has had a bunch of talented players in the past-- including two MVPs-- and is still ringless.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DPG21920
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Originally Posted by DPG21920
The problem is, a bunch of teams in the West can make the same argument and this one is has a lower floor than them.
It's nice, but it doesn't win you a championship when 3 of your 4 best players play archaic styles and none a superstars (I'd argue only one is even a legit star).
But Murray will complete the rotation. The only possibility of a change, is Forbes being traded (likely with a pick, if it happens).
Good post . . . but none of that gets them in championship contention either. This is a league where the bar is so high that Lillard, probably the 3rd or 4th best guard in the league, isn't good enough to be the best player on a championship team.Quote:
Originally Posted by R. DeMurre
Oh yeah, just "be like the Rockets"...what a simple, elegant solution to all of our problems! If only the Spurs staff had thought of that!
:lol Fuck you.
Well ya :lol Other teams can be good and improve. Unless you are GS everyone else is just doing the best they can. SA is in that spot with other teams with a reasonable chance to make a jump. I don’t see what the issue is.Quote:
Originally Posted by TD 21
I am not in the boat of “unless you are GS, tank”. SA may not be able to build a team that is GS-level clear cut above everyone else, but they can put themselves on “we have a legit chance to make the WCF” level.
As well as Houston being handicapped with cap space, the chance of getting 2 all-nba calibre player is pretty high IMO. White is very likely to hit this level. Walker has the physical tools, skills, footwork & fundamentals to get there. I know G League isn't much of a guide, but there are certain players you can tell by watching, that they can make it, even at that level. I never got that feeling watching Marcus Williams or anyone else like that dominate the D League. Dejounte has the physical tools, but is a complete unknown.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TD 21
Lol the Raptors will be in the lottery for the foreseeable future after this year. Yeah let’s copy those jokers.
Raptors next year without #2 will be a lowly 6-8 seed at best and at worst a lottery team. I don't buy into that garbage of how they had a great record when he didn't play. It's easy for them to win in small stretches without him of him not playing for a game or two but I don't think they could do it for a full season. Raptors without #2 is just Siakam and a bunch of good role players. I don't buy into Siakam being a superstar. Teams will be able to game plan against him next year.Quote:
Originally Posted by EricB
Don't be like the Rockets
Playing like HOU is not evolving.
I don't even call that basketball, it is just a videogame where the hero with superpowers has a special no-touch armour. With basketball rules HOU would be OKC.
Still, GS will dispose of HOU easier than they beat the Clippers. Call that evolution?
HOU would never be able to "play like HOU" without 2 things:
1. Harden
2. Favorable officiating of Harden
Even if we had Tucker, Capela and Gordon (all three are decent, playoffs-proof players; two can defend) we would never be able to "play like HOU" with DDR or White or Murray in Harden's role. Just like the Bucks "playing like Bucks" without Giannis would be doomed in the post-season. We just don't have this kind of talent. It's not about system, it's about special talent with a tailor-made system
No, they won't. With Siakam's emergence and the Gasol pickup, they'll probably more or less standpat if scumbag leaves. If they can get Green re-signed, they still have a good chance at being a top 4 team in the East and winning a round.Quote:
Originally Posted by EricB
If at some point they want to change course, they can trade the expirings (Lowry, Gasol, Ibaka), get back some of the draft capital they've shipped out in recent seasons and add that to Siakam, Anunoby, Van Vleet, Powell and cap flexibility going forward.
No, I mean it's so tight between so many teams in the West, that there's about as much possibility of stagnating or regressing as their is of progressing. The issue is, the Spurs pieces don't fit and the core is both aging and bereft of a superstar.Quote:
Originally Posted by DPG21920
Who said anything about tanking? I'd offer DeRozan and Belinelli for Batum, Bridges, Parker and a future lottery protected 1st.
There is no reason for copying a model still unproven as successful. Dantoni&Harden haven't won a championship yet.
I look at the team the same way. If White, Walker and Murray continue to improve along with mainly the same cast we have now, this team could be really good sooner than some think.Quote:
Originally Posted by DPG21920
I really think Walker has a chance to be something special if this offseason he stays healthy and listens to the coaching staff. The guy already has an NBA body and athleticism, not to mention his shot mechanics look solid. He just needs more film study and game time to really excel, I believe.
I'm super excited about the draft and summer league this year
Personally, I would prefer the Spurs to be more like the Bucks or Raptors, tbh.
Me too. Seeing how great of a defender White is morphing into gives me sweet dreams of him and Murray locking people up. With Poeltl as a great defensive anchor too possibly? This team could very quickly have one of the best defenses in the league and it will be spearheaded by 3 guys 24 and under (I think).Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Robinson 50 fan
Offense may be an issue but I trust Pop to figure that out and balance things out.
this team has good upside with 3 young players who got the potential to be something close to All-Star level players. Additionally some young ones who are solid NBA role players and they are all on cheap deals. Add to that 2 All-Stars in Aldridge and DeRozan and 2 draft picks in this years draft.
The development of the young players will improve this team in the most significant way. What the FO has to do is sign championship caliber role players like a Marcus Morris for example, especially SFs. And not just 1, this team needs 3. Preferably 2 of which are good enough to play big minutes.
All the dead weight needs to get outta here as well as old ass end of the bench scrubs. I don't think I have to mention names, we know who they are
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Originally Posted by Spurs Homer
Going in to the draft and free agency last summer, Number Two and Danny were still on the team. This roster as presently constructed is rather flawed, but that doesn't mean that the FO can't improve it this offseason. There will be much more clarity this summer as to who will be on the team, etc.