Pop has thoroughly overcoached this team

He's so insistent on making sure players take the right shot, make the right pass, do the right defensive rotation, that this team has become more concerned about not making any mistakes than they have about just playing freely.

This has led the team to become timid, uncertain, constantly second guessing themselves. They take an extra split second before deciding to shoot, which gives defenders enough time to close out. They give up open shots and pass the ball to well-defended teammates who then lose the ball to a swarming defense. They don't attack the basket and instead just move the ball over and over and over until time runs out and DeRozan or Aldridge has to settle for a desperation fadeaway.

This team is mentally broken right now, and Pop with his overcoaching is hugely responsible for it. The worst part is, this isn't even the first time it's happened (2016 against OKC comes to mind), yet he never learns his lesson.

Sadly it's true that it's not the first time

He has undercoached this series though.

This loss is entirely mental. The thing that drives me the most crazy is that this isn’t a bad team. I still stand by the fact our Spurs are still the ‘better’ team. But this series is probably over, and every Spur is completely psyched out

What happened during the OKC series?

Spurs missed tons of gimmes tonight, but not sure that would have made enough of a difference. Blew their chance by blowing games 2 and 4.

They should be favored in game 6, but wouldn’t be surprised to see them drop it. Flawed team set up for regular season success. Of Mills, Beli, Forbes and Bertans, I don’t want to see more than two of them back. Gay has been awful this series too but so shallow at the 3.

Does seem that way tonight.

I didn't watch the game tonight, but Pop's been fine in the series other than questionable minute allocation..

The problem is that Pop the president has sabotaged Pop the coach..

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Originally Posted by sananspursfan21

This loss is entirely mental. The thing that drives me the most crazy is that this isn’t a bad team. I still stand by the fact our Spurs are still the ‘better’ team. But this series is probably over, and every Spur is completely psyched out

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No way, our bench sucks and Murray/jokic >>>>>>>>> LMA, DeMar

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Originally Posted by Amuseddaysleeper

No way, our bench sucks and Murray/jokic >>>>>>>>> LMA, DeMar

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K

Insists on taking the right shot and making the correct defensive rotation?

Then why does he love the Midgettes Patty and Bryn?

More like out coached

“But- but- who are we playing in the wcf?”

Disagree, he's not overcoached at all, he's been following a solid gameplan all series long. If anything he's made less rush decisions than he's done in the past, only minor tweaks.

This team had a 7th seed type of year and they're playing like a 7th seed in the playoffs, they've sucked so no surprises.

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Originally Posted by BG_Spurs_Fan

Disagree, he's not overcoached at all, he's been following a solid gameplan all series long. If anything he's made less rush decisions than he's done in the past, only minor tweaks.

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You don't see the overcoaching in the gameplan. You see it in the players' mentality. It's obvious that he's spent so much time going over their mistakes in film room sessions that they've become more concerned with not making mistakes than about just playing freely.

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Originally Posted by DAF86

He has undercoached this series though.

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Pop is guilty of over coaching AND under coaching simultaneously. Oh spurstalk, you never cease to amuse me!
:lmao

get over yourself

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Originally Posted by Keepin' it real

Pop is guilty of over coaching AND under coaching simultaneously. Oh spurstalk, you never cease to amuse me!
:lmao

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:lmao ture, but you don't see it on the court - you have to look into their souls to realize.

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Originally Posted by Keepin' it real

Pop is guilty of over coaching AND under coaching simultaneously. Oh spurstalk, you never cease to amuse me!
:lmao

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Pop made his players play like scared pussies that overthink everything while not adapting his rotations and timeouts to the needs of playoffs basketball. Do you like it redacted like that better?

It takes time for a team to learn...and we don't have to forget that there are a lot of new faces in this team...somehing unusual for our franchise. White is the first year he really plays. DDR and Poeltl are in the first year and the first is the main weapon, the second then starting center...that said, I agree the level of the talent is not enough there...expecially defensively.

losing this series, he will make up some lame excuse...its just basketball...then why u competing if its just basketball? fck that clown has lost it

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Originally Posted by Uriel

You don't see the overcoaching in the gameplan. You see it in the players' mentality. It's obvious that he's spent so much time going over their mistakes in film room sessions that they've become more concerned with not making mistakes than about just playing freely.

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That is not the coach's doing but the reflection of true character by a player. I think the coach is just observing who stands up and who does not under pressure. He knows the Spurs have no business in making finals this season, so it is an excellent opportunity to understand who is up for it and who is not. Hopefully they take duly note and manage to make changes in the off season. I think they need a leader. But how do you pull one out? Is not as easy as going to Ebay and buying a pair of socks. I'd say LMA is the first one to go (he has been given enough chances in playoffs). DeRozan has failed too. But it is his first stanza.

Pop has been out coached and RC has been out GM'd. I am now down to keeping only 3 players...Dejounte Murray, Derrick White and Lonnie Walker IV. Trade the other 12 players and get what you can and then hire 12 Little Sisters Of The Poor to fill in the roster and go from there. Can't be any worse than the gutless, heartless and wimpy weenies we have now. And damn't get a new head coach. Time to send Pop to the bench.

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Originally Posted by DAF86

Pop made his players play like scared pussies that overthink everything while not adapting his rotations and timeouts to the needs of playoffs basketball. Do you like it redacted like that better?

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News flash..... either your a pussy or not. Mental toughness is not an option.

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Originally Posted by Atl Spur

News flash..... either your a pussy or not. Mental toughness is not an option.

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And who's responsible for getting those pussies? Say it with me.

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Originally Posted by TheGreatYacht

Insists on taking the right shot and making the correct defensive rotation?

Then why does he love the Midgettes Patty and Bryn?

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You can teach basketball, but you can’t teach culture

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Originally Posted by HarlemHeat37

I didn't watch the game tonight, but Pop's been fine in the series other than questionable minute allocation..

The problem is that Pop the president has sabotaged Pop the coach..

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bingo

Pop is a great coach, but it isn't unusual to see great coaches not be as successful in their final years. Unfortunately POP is just not as good of a coach in today's NBA. While many teams go too far in valuing athleticism over skills, the Spurs have gone the other way, misjuding the importance of athleticism especially on the defensive side of the court. Add to that Pop's disdain of the 3pt line and moving forward I just see Pop's coaching style being less effective with today's players.

There is a reason almost every player has career shooting years under D'Antoni (although I think he is too lax in accountability), with the Spurs we see too many guys playing to not make mistakes.

Pop & the Spurs are still elite in player development, but they are gonna have to be willing to change to make the Spurs a contender again

Nah.

It's just Coach Malone defensive plan working well. Scouting has neutralized a handful of sets for Aldridge to get the ball in the post. They're not throwing perimeter players to double DeRozan's penetrations, just collapsing with the bigs when he's close to the basket. White han been challenged to shoot from 3pt on the dribble since he destroyed them penetrating. Gay is not surpassing his man 1on1.
All these situations make Spurs ball movement dissapear, there are no good shots for our shooters, no rythm or offensive flow. That's what makes our players look worst: tactics, strategy and coaching.

Poor starters would be overused if Stotts was coaching this team ��

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Originally Posted by Coach X

Nah.

It's just Coach Malone defensive plan working well. Scouting has neutralized a handful of sets for Aldridge to get the ball in the post. They're not throwing perimeter players to double DeRozan's penetrations, just collapsing with the bigs when he's close to the basket. White han been challenged to shoot from 3pt on the dribble since he destroyed them penetrating. Gay is not surpassing his man 1on1.
All these situations make Spurs ball movement dissapear, there are no good shots for our shooters, no rythm or offensive flow. That's what makes our players look worst: tactics, strategy and coaching.

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Then what can we do to counter, coach?

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Originally Posted by HarlemHeat37

The problem is that Pop the president has sabotaged Pop the coach..

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This, although, I blame Leonard as well for forcing the Spurs to trade him.

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Originally Posted by Keepin' it real

Pop is guilty of over coaching AND under coaching simultaneously. Oh spurstalk, you never cease to amuse me!
:lmao

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:rollin

Lots of threads blaming Pop, RC, Patty Mills etc.
for me it’s obvious two people are primarily responsible:
1. DeMar DeRozan
2. LaMarcus Aldridge

A distant third is Rudy Gay.
in the playoffs the star players should show up and make plays.

LMA decided to be non-impactful. DDR plays dumber than in regular seasons.

every second round team stars elevated their game in the post season: Boston, Bucks, Toronto, Philly, GS, HOU, Portland (especially Portland!!!) and sadly Denver stars too. Jokic is delivering. LMA completely losing the big man battle.

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Originally Posted by Chomag

More like out coached

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How it that out coached when the teams two stars, LA and DDR, are playing horrible on both ends of the court?

Coaching is not the issue, TALENT, IQ is the issue. TANK or else prepare for the same shit next season.

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Originally Posted by Uriel

Then what can we do to counter, coach?

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They need to limit the amount of derozan ball handling at the top of the key. Its extremely easy to collapse on a ball handler that cant shoot and is predictbly going for the drive or midrange. And Whites lack of three pointing, exacerbates that problem.

While you can sag off derrick white if hes handling the ball on the top of the key, it would be much more difficult to contain derozan if hes catching the ball on the wings.

A couple of things they should do more.

1. Frontcout/Frontcourt PNR...particularly Gay and Aldridge. This opens ups driving lanes for everyone, frees up the big and puts derrick white in a much better position to attack.

The raptors do this with Siakam at the 4. Leonard is almost always open for a quick drive and so is lowry.

Gay should be competent enough to perform this. They dont need to this at such a high usage rate, but def enough to make the offense more diverse.

2. Have derozan catch the ball in the the freethrow area.

Derozan is a PG is fine. I get it. Hes the wnd best PG out there, but Malone has done a decent job of adjusting to any Derozan ballhandling duties.

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Originally Posted by Uriel

You don't see the overcoaching in the gameplan. You see it in the players' mentality. It's obvious that he's spent so much time going over their mistakes in film room sessions that they've become more concerned with not making mistakes than about just playing freely.

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So supposedly all star players like LA and DDR, are afraid of making mistakes? This sounds more like players being soft than overcoaching. This Spur's team is obviously nowhere near as talented as the big 3, but, just out of curiosity, how often did you think did you think the championship Spur's teams "played freely" and were overcoached?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...;v=8eAYz-OKikM

I'm just gonna leave this recently uploaded vid here and vent a couple of things.

Yes,the team is flawed.We all knew that since day 1.PATFO didn't do the best they could with roster construction,the rotation had holes,we were unlucky with injuries,the role players underperformed,the system was frustrating,Pop was stubborn with line ups,the allstars were letting the team down for long time periods,playoffs included,we lost games we were supposed to win,we are basically facing a rnd1 elimination again.

I feel disheartened from last night's game,frustrated like most in the forum,but still,i can't feel angry,i can't really blame anybody in particular.Even if it's gonna take a miracle to come back and win the series,i'm okay with it.

Nobody can sustain this kind of success for such a long period of time.It's been abnormal.I'm not talking just about HoFamers and the GOAT retiring.I'm also talking about Pop and RC.I'm talking about role players past their prime years.I'm talking about decisions and habits that a decade ago didn't have an effect on team performance,seemingly being magnified in today's NBA.

There are other teams with more talent than the current Spurs.It's normal.With deeper rotations.It's normal.With more salary space.It's absolutely normal.With emerging stars on the good side of 30 against our aging go to guys.Everything is normal.

As for us,the fans? We are frustrated and dissapointed.It's normal!
When as a fanbase you enjoy winning basketball for more than 2 decades,it has it's effects.
We have a pretty good basketball knowledge,better than most fanbases definitely.We have higher standards.We are accustomed to excellence.And i'm not talking about rings and chips.I'm talking about the actual game.We have enjoyed teams that played ENJOYABLE basketball.Either defense oriented or free flowing beautiful passing.It has been FUN.
This Spurs team is not capable of that.It's not fun anymore.

But,and there is a huge but in here,bigger than Dejounte's girlfriend's,the reactions have crossed over to the other end.
And we are coming off as spoiled.Entitled.Out of touch and reality.
It's Basketball.We are entitled to shit.Everything is earned.If you don't perform you get knocked out.If you are playing good enough to make the playoffs but don't have another gear,you won't make it past the first round.

Bottom line,we didn't over achieve to make the playoffs.But it would take overachieving to get past 1st Round.Nuggets were a beatable team.But we can't beat them 4 times out of 7 apparently.
We can't judge this team based on past glory.And we can only hope the best for the future.And from a basketball point of view,we all expected this outcome,and we hoped for the best.It is,what it is,as it's always been and as everything related to Basketball,will allways be.
Cheers.Fuck off Nephew.

that's not the issue. The issue is that Pop loves to sign unathletic yes men and doesn't evaluate players by actual basketball skills. That's why you don't sign a 20 ppg scorer like Tyreke Evans for 2.8 Million but give Patty Mills 12 and then you wonder why the roster is trash

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Originally Posted by DAF86

Pop made his players play like scared pussies

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Really? Grown ass men playing at the highest, professional level, playing scared? :lol, So does Pop have some of sort magical powers where he waves a wizard wand and casts a spell on his players?:lol Or maybe Pop is just being too mean:cry again to his players?

The only thing i accuse Pop of is his POBO desicions regarding the trade of nephew and his wrong assessment of one Demar Derozan. He thought he could transform this guy into a good defender and playmaker at the same time. You could see Pop from vids with team USA trying to teach Depression right from the start. We should have taken the nephew situation as an opportunity to develop young players, trade LMA who had a very good season the previous season and had some value and start the rebuilding process by tanking as well. Instead we took Derozan's untradeable contract and that will haunt us for a few years. Pop thought he could rebuild and compete at the same time something that is particularly difficult to do and do it succesfully.
Of course we don't know what happened behind closed doors between Pop and the owner because by tanking the franchise has to be willing to take an economic hit for a couple of years. We don't know what the other offers were.
Too many plot holes to make a thorough assessment of the situation.

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Originally Posted by RC_Drunkford

that's not the issue. The issue is that Pop loves to sign unathletic yes men and doesn't evaluate players by actual basketball skills. That's why you don't sign a 20 ppg scorer like Tyreke Evans for 2.8 Million but give Patty Mills 12 and then you wonder why the roster is trash

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Tyreke Evans is a bad example, since he plays no D and has played for almost half the league, but you're on to something. Denver is exposing the Spur's extreme lack of athleticism. That's on PATFO.

Spurs need to play inside out. The screens aren't doing much at freeing our guys. On the other hand, the problem with Denver is that defending the screen is proving too much for our perimeter defense. Rebounding is pretty craptastic too.

Looks like defeat is an orphan to Spurs fans, Pop.

makes you wonder about team USA

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Originally Posted by jjktkk

Tyreke Evans is a bad example, since he plays no D and has played for almost half the league, but you're on to something. Denver is exposing the Spur's extreme lack of athleticism. That's on PATFO.

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This has been the case for years. Why do you think Bonner lasted so many years on the team? Did he ever really do anything of significance in his 10 years playing for the Spurs? Pop would rather have a guy that’s stands where he tells him to, than someone that can just go make a basketball play. The exception was Manu, and even that was a struggle early on. And Manu exceptional character and willingness to come off the bench made it tolerable for Pop. But overall, he loves unathletic guys because they have to listen to him to stay on this team / league.

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Originally Posted by Xx_SpursNation_xX

This team had a 7th seed type of year and they're playing like a 7th seed in the playoffs, they've sucked so no surprises.

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I don't expect most 7th seeds to win 2 playoff games.

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Originally Posted by Coach X

Nah.

It's just Coach Malone defensive plan working well. Scouting has neutralized a handful of sets for Aldridge to get the ball in the post. They're not throwing perimeter players to double DeRozan's penetrations, just collapsing with the bigs when he's close to the basket. White han been challenged to shoot from 3pt on the dribble since he destroyed them penetrating. Gay is not surpassing his man 1on1.
All these situations make Spurs ball movement dissapear, there are no good shots for our shooters, no rythm or offensive flow. That's what makes our players look worst: tactics, strategy and coaching.

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+ 1

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Originally Posted by superbigtime

makes you wonder about team USA

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Yup, he's going to overcoach and undercoach them, too.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Coach X

Nah.

It's just Coach Malone defensive plan working well. Scouting has neutralized a handful of sets for Aldridge to get the ball in the post. They're not throwing perimeter players to double DeRozan's penetrations, just collapsing with the bigs when he's close to the basket. White han been challenged to shoot from 3pt on the dribble since he destroyed them penetrating. Gay is not surpassing his man 1on1.
All these situations make Spurs ball movement dissapear, there are no good shots for our shooters, no rythm or offensive flow. That's what makes our players look worst: tactics, strategy and coaching.

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Aldridge needs to drive on a catch, and not wait for double team - motion offense. Our guys are not making hard cuts, double/triple pick to clear shooters. Move move move and let it fly when open.

the roster is poor. we're not going to win if LMA/Derozan/White are playing like shit. it's really that simple.

Anyone see this post game quote.

"You can’t change who you are by this time of the season. The basics of winning and losing still apply. Any adjustment in the world means nothing if the basics aren’t taken care of."

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Originally Posted by TDMVPDPOY

losing this series, he will make up some lame excuse...its just basketball...then why u competing if its just basketball? fck that clown has lost it

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This and then get some wine and more wine

People say adjustments but you can't assume adjustments would work when the other team clearly has better talent. I mean, there's like five or six problems with this team, so I'm not surprised they blew a series like this. Can't win a 7 game series with less talent.

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Originally Posted by Coach X

Nah.

It's just Coach Malone defensive plan working well. Scouting has neutralized a handful of sets for Aldridge to get the ball in the post. They're not throwing perimeter players to double DeRozan's penetrations, just collapsing with the bigs when he's close to the basket. White han been challenged to shoot from 3pt on the dribble since he destroyed them penetrating. Gay is not surpassing his man 1on1.
All these situations make Spurs ball movement dissapear, there are no good shots for our shooters, no rythm or offensive flow. That's what makes our players look worst: tactics, strategy and coaching.

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Yes. All true.

And Marco barely able to walk is killing all the cutting and spacing he provides when healthy. That alone is killing the second unit.
The offense is so not moving that it looks like a picture.

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Originally Posted by K...

People say adjustments but you can't assume adjustments would work when the other team clearly has better talent. I mean, there's like five or six problems with this team, so I'm not surprised they blew a series like this. Can't win a 7 game series with less talent.

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https://s3media.247sports.com/Upload.../6_5595935.jpg

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Originally Posted by K...

People say adjustments but you can't assume adjustments would work when the other team clearly has better talent. I mean, there's like five or six problems with this team, so I'm not surprised they blew a series like this. Can't win a 7 game series with less talent.

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So don’t try to make adjustments? That’s just lazy coaching and a deflection. But that’s been Pop for the last several years anyway. He hides behind “it’s just basketball”. That’s why he treats reporters like shit because they draw attention to his coaching decisions in the playoffs.

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Originally Posted by Dverde

https://s3media.247sports.com/Upload.../6_5595935.jpg

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this team is extremely underrated (wise talent) and this roster is exceptionally well assembled (basically, the inverse of the current Spurs)

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Originally Posted by r0drig0lac

this team is extremely underrated (wise talent) and this roster is exceptionally well assembled (basically, the inverse of the current Spurs)

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Underrated talentwise? Two HOF + two of the best 3pt shooters ever, at the time when defenses let shooters shoot...

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Originally Posted by DAF86

Pop made his players play like scared pussies that overthink everything while not adapting his rotations and timeouts to the needs of playoffs basketball. Do you like it redacted like that better?

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this exactly

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Originally Posted by venitian navigator

It takes time for a team to learn...and we don't have to forget that there are a lot of new faces in this team...somehing unusual for our franchise. White is the first year he really plays. DDR and Poeltl are in the first year and the first is the main weapon, the second then starting center...that said, I agree the level of the talent is not enough there...expecially defensively.

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so you think they will keep the roster together and play the same bullshit line ups in 2020 and blame this year on chemistry?

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Originally Posted by jjktkk

Tyreke Evans is a bad example, since he plays no D and has played for almost half the league, but you're on to something. Denver is exposing the Spur's extreme lack of athleticism. That's on PATFO.

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yeah but Mills also doesn't play defense and costs 4 times more while Evans is the better scorer. Do you see where I'm going with this?

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Originally Posted by RC_Drunkford

yeah but Mills also doesn't play defense and costs 4 times more while Evans is the better scorer. Do you see where I'm going with this?

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Unfortunately we're stuck with Mills. Fast forward to next season, my hope is that some sort combination of Murray, Walker, and White, maybe Forbes too, will limit Mills minutes next year.

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Originally Posted by Uriel

Then what can we do to counter, coach?

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dverde

"You can’t change who you are by this time of the season. The basics of winning and losing still apply. Any adjustment in the world means nothing if the basics aren’t taken care of."

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A team has to play better defense in order to be competitive in the playoffs. This Spurs team has struggled defensively all season long so nobody can be surprised about the series development.

The team defense started being fine but inconsistency costed game 2. Through 82 games, the only decent defensive unit found included Poetl and White. They leave the court and Spurs are in trouble. The lack of versatility in the roster reduces the tactical options for Popovich. Poetl is probably the best Spurs defender in the series but at the same time, the two big men unit is being exploited by Denver starters and their 5 men 3pt threat. What are the alternatives? To start Gay? Hmmmm. I'd try Bertans.

Anyway, a team with so many bad defenders in main and secondary roles can't be competitive against a good ofensive team. Regardless the tactics or strategies. Now that the young Nuggets have relieved the pressure from their shoulders, it's noticeable how comfortable all of them are. In the other hand, it's hard to find a single Spur feeling good in the series.

Coach Malone has done his homework and he's taking advantage of Spurs weaknesses and his team strengths. Popovich has more weaknesses to cover but still has a handful of powerful ofensive strenghts. Spurs should stablish early Aldridge in the low post and DDR and LaMarcus should be put in position to play good 1on1 situations where they can score and force Malone to at least consider changing his defensive strategy and start sending players to help out inside.
This is the point where I think playing a shooter in the PF could be useful for San Antonio. Poetl is left alone under the rim to finish/tip after short dishes/rebounds but playing Gay/Bertans would remove the helper from Aldridge/DeRozan penetrations or allow Spurs to play their regular ball movement and 3pt shooting. Obviously the strategy has a defensive B-side. Aldridge has to guard Jokic (which reduces to zero the rim protection when he plays open) and Gay/Bertans have to dance with Millsap. It's a risky move, but that's a feasible adjustment inside of this season team schemes. At this point, I believe Denver's 3pt shooting is being the key factor and anything that can take away that from their game has to be considered at least.

In a more conservative approach, Spurs will insist starting Poetl over Jokic and try to execute better their defensive plan. The main goal here is to increase the pressure on the ball. Too many times, the Nuggets make shots in 1on1 cover, specially behind the 3pt line. Moreover, Aldridge needs to provide a better rim protection and all the players must improve in the defensive rotations and make the shooters put the ball on the floor.

There are some other minor adjustments that might help Spurs to get over the hump. Pop could give up on Gay and reduce his minutes (I don't think so). Marco's overall game isn't being good enough. Motiejunas could play some minutes next to Aldridge and probably help him to get the ball in high-low connexions ala Gasol. Stats say Bertans could have more playing time and I think so too from a coaching perspective. And don't forget zone defense.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Uriel

He's so insistent on making sure players take the right shot, make the right pass, do the right defensive rotation, that this team has become more concerned about not making any mistakes than they have about just playing freely.

This has led the team to become timid, uncertain, constantly second guessing themselves. They take an extra split second before deciding to shoot, which gives defenders enough time to close out. They give up open shots and pass the ball to well-defended teammates who then lose the ball to a swarming defense. They don't attack the basket and instead just move the ball over and over and over until time runs out and DeRozan or Aldridge has to settle for a desperation fadeaway.

This team is mentally broken right now, and Pop with his overcoaching is hugely responsible for it. The worst part is, this isn't even the first time it's happened (2016 against OKC comes to mind), yet he never learns his lesson.

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Wtf are you talking about? You have DDR who can leav his feet before he has any idea of whether to pass or shoot, marco who hasnt taken a decent shot all year, and lma/gay who chuck turnaround fadeaways like they are trying to one up marco. Had these four been coached their minutes would be limited spurs are losing because they are volume shooting out of iso regularly.