99 Bulls vs 99 Spurs. Who ya got?

If Jordan, Pip, and Rodman all stayed vs the mighty San Antonio Astericks

Harper vs AJ :lol obviously Harp
Ellie vs Jordan :lol
Pip vs Elliott closer but nod goes to Pip
Duncan vs Rodman. A nice match up for the Asterix. Duncan obviously the better player but Rodman would be able to guard him one on one which helps with the Bulls defense overall

Robinson vs Longley: a closer match up than you would think. Big Dave is obviously a legend (at losing to Run TMC) and he is the better player but at that point he was no longer the offensive weapon he used to be. Longley would be able to stick with him and keep Dave to a respectable box score. Something like 17 and 8.

Overall I give the nod to the GOAT MJ but it would be an intriguing series. Bulls in 5 close ones

Spurs win.

Pippen is a shell by 99.. Hell he was shell by the finals of 98..
Jordan is 36 By June of 99.
Duncan would be too dominant.
David wanting that Ring so badly..
Spurs were dominant on D just like the Bulls.. Points at a premium. Who's helping Jordan?
Bulls just older and wore out..

Spurs in 6..

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Originally Posted by KobesAchilles

Duncan vs Rodman. A nice match up for the Asterix. Duncan obviously the better player but Rodman would be able to guard him one on one which helps with the

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Rodman for the Lakers only played in 23 games, and was released in 1999. Basketball was about 10th on his list of priorities. Duncan would have eaten his Fucking Lunch..

Yeah an old Rodman vs a prime young Duncan, no matchup at al. I mean it's just stat lookups, but many players declined the following season, some quite a bit. I'd have money on Spurs.

With all the injuries Pippen dealt with in 1998 I'd probably take the 99 Spurs over the 98 Bulls much less a hypothetical 99 Bulls team with a finished Rodman and Kukoc taking Pippen's place (no way he was staying). Even if Pippen stayed he was never the same player after that injury plagued 1997-98. Hell the 98 Jazz should have won that Finals after that dagger three Stockton hit with 39 seconds in Game 6 to go up three, and they would have if Malone didn't choke that ball away to Jordan up 1 with like 16 seconds left. Now the 97 Bulls would have smoked the 99 Spurs in five or six.

I think Longley is the only player that doesn't return. He received a huge contract from the Suns

I prefer the Bulls chances of finding bodies to bang down low versus the Spurs finding someone to guard Jordan coming off arguably his greatest season. Imagine how many mercenaries would have been jumping at the chance to be part of 4-peat

Avery, Elie and Elliot were out of the NBA within 2 seasons. Pippen was still starting in the WCFs and Harper starting on the NBA champs. Also Kerr wouldn't be on the Spurs bench.

Classic series of strength vs weakness

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Originally Posted by FrostKing

think Longley is the only player that doesn't return. He received a huge contract from the Suns

I prefer the Bulls chances of finding bodies to bang down low versus the Spurs finding someone to guard Jordan coming off arguably his greatest season. Imagine how many mercenaries would have been jumping at the chance to be part of 4-peat

Avery, Elie and Elliot were out of the NBA within 2 seasons. Pippen was still starting in the WCFs and Harper starting on the NBA champs. Also Kerr wouldn't be on the Spurs bench.

Classic series of strength vs weakness

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I don't see it. Pippen was never the same player after having back surgery in the summer of '98. Not even close. Upper level starter, yeah... but the franchise player he was in Chicago for the previous six or seven years? No way. He never looked like the same agile and athletic player he was in Chicago after that surgery. And that's assuming he would even have signed to stay there, which is hardly a given with all the bad blood between him and Krause. Rodman after the lockout? He was horrible and didn't even last 25 games in LA after Shaq begged Jerry West to sign him. Duncan and Robinson would have massacred him. And the league MLE was really low that season, $1.75 million. They would have just been able to get another Luc Longley and that's pretty much it with that kind of money. And 98 was nowhere close to one of Jordan's best years. Maybe best storyline, but he escaped Utah by the skin of his nuts in 98 and would have had to play an even bigger role in 99 as the one elite player on the team. A lot to ask out of a 35 year old who had just played three Finals.

Bulls were never ever to contain Olajuwon. Imagine them trying to contain Duncan AND Robinson. Plus all the wear and tear from 3 straight championship runs. Bulls probably don't even make it to the finals (although, come to think about it, the East was pretty shitty in 99).

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Originally Posted by DAF86

Bulls were never ever to contain Olajuwon. Imagine them trying to contain Duncan AND Robinson. Plus all the wear and tear from 3 straight championship runs. Bulls probably don't even make it to the finals (although, come to think about it, the East was pretty shitty in 99).

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The East still had the same teams that made the Bulls road to their titles so God-damned difficult. Miami, Indiana and New York were all still good squads. New York wasnt a true 8 seed, they'd have finished 5 or better in a full season. Answer's Sixers were starting to come of age as well.

99 was probably the last time the East was still close to the West in quality of competition.

The Bulls would actually have to make the playoffs. I got the Spurs who won the championship in '99.

:lobt2:
:flag:

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Originally Posted by Chucho

99 was probably the last time the East was still close to the West in quality of competition.

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Disagree, discounting the huge disparity in talent between the Spurs and anybody in the East that year, the Blazers would have also mopped the floor with whoever came out of the East with their size. Lakers probably would have also. The 98 Pacers were a great team but Reggie Miller fell off bigtime in 99 and it seemed like Mark Jackson became such a ballhog in the post that year. I was never impressed with that Miami team either. Ewing was a shell of his former self by then but I still remember him sonning Mourning in some critical games that series.

If Allen Houston's jumper doesn't clank in, then the Heat surely make a run to the Finals. Rough draw for them to face a rival with so much in common in the 1st Round

1999 Heat
C: Mourning
PF: Brown
SF: Mashburn
SG: Majerle
PG: Hardaway
Bench: Terry Porter and Terry Mills

Only Porter was on his last legs. This might have been their best team. They were 4th in SRS for the season.

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Originally Posted by FrostKing

If Allen Houston's jumper doesn't clank in, then the Heat surely make a run to the Finals. Rough draw for them to face a rival with so much in common in the 1st Round

1999 Heat
C: Mourning
PF: Brown
SF: Mashburn
SG: Majerle
PG: Hardaway
Bench: Terry Porter and Terry Mills

Only Porter was on his last legs. This might have been their best team. They were 4th in SRS for the season.

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That Heat team wasn't shit. Should have never come to Allan Houston's shot. Miami lost because Tim Hardaway was so shitty the entire series and Ewing played a great defensive Game 1 and then actually outplayed Mourning overall in Game 5. Old man Ewing can't outplay the #2 MVP candidate in an elimination game. And god I forgot how horrible Hardaway was until I went and looked up the stats. What a ridiculous choke from him. And then Majerle was even worse, what a clusterfuck of a series he had. Miami Majerle was nowhere near as good as Phoenix Majerle.

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Originally Posted by KobesAchilles

If Jordan, Pip, and Rodman all stayed vs the mighty San Antonio Astericks

Harper vs AJ :lol obviously Harp
Ellie vs Jordan :lol
Pip vs Elliott closer but nod goes to Pip
Duncan vs Rodman. A nice match up for the Asterix. Duncan obviously the better player but Rodman would be able to guard him one on one which helps with the Bulls defense overall

Robinson vs Longley: a closer match up than you would think. Big Dave is obviously a legend (at losing to Run TMC) and he is the better player but at that point he was no longer the offensive weapon he used to be. Longley would be able to stick with him and keep Dave to a respectable box score. Something like 17 and 8.

Overall I give the nod to the GOAT MJ but it would be an intriguing series. Bulls in 5 close ones

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The biggest thing working against the Bulls would be like ~300 games played the previous 3 seasons. Dynasties kill themselves due to exhaustion, like the 2003 Lakers. Spurs in 6.

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Originally Posted by dbreiden83080

Rodman for the Lakers only played in 23 games, and was released in 1999. Basketball was about 10th on his list of priorities. Duncan would have eaten his Fucking Lunch..

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I was wondering how KA forgot that.

Shell Pippen. Shell Rodman. So, pretty much a return to MJs early career: him vs. everyone.

That piece of shit said “the mighty San Antonio asterisks” lmao piece of shit.

You know what im wondering who do you have for the 2004 finals an all star Lakers team or the Pistons? Hmmm i wonder who would sweep.

That's the series right there. Rodman seemed very disinterested even at the end of 98. Can't see him checking Tim one-on-one in 99.

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Originally Posted by dbreiden83080

Rodman for the Lakers only played in 23 games, and was released in 1999. Basketball was about 10th on his list of priorities. Duncan would have eaten his Fucking Lunch..

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Its hard... I think the fact that the following season was shorter because of the lockout, don't think the wear and tear the bulls had would have been pronounced. But It would have been tough for them.

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Originally Posted by exstatic

The biggest thing working against the Bulls would be like ~300 games played the previous 3 seasons. Dynasties kill themselves due to exhaustion, like the 2003 Lakers. Spurs in 6.

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It's nice to speculate, but the bottom line is Pippen was gone no matter what. He was sick of being underpaid.. But even if he stayed, 99 Pippen as we saw is not a difference maker anymore..

prime bulls would beat prime spurs.

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Originally Posted by illusioNtEk

prime bulls would beat prime spurs.

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Yes 96 or 97 Bulls would smoke the 99 Spurs. 98 Bulls I'm not so sure about with Pippen's injuries, and a hypotehtical past its prime 99 Bulls team that somehow brought everyone back wouldn't have a very good chance against 99 Duncan & Robinson.

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Originally Posted by exstatic

I was wondering how KA forgot that.

Shell Pippen. Shell Rodman. So, pretty much a return to MJs early career: him vs. everyone.

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Admittedly my arguments have so many what if’s but one of them is that Rodman would be kept in check out of respect for MJ. I think the dude would’ve been focused enough to really want that 4th title. I know he fell off a cliff in LA but when your leader is Shaq, theres really not enough leadership for Rodman to listen. I mean who was he going to respect? Shaq never won shit and had zero MVPs at the time, Kobe was a pup, and (that was when Rudy got sick right?) so I think Del was the coach :lol

As far as Pip goes, he was about as done as Elliott but I gotta give the edge to him over Sean.
The X-factor is really Kukoc

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Originally Posted by KobesAchilles

Admittedly my arguments have so many what if’s but one of them is that Rodman would be kept in check out of respect for MJ. I think the dude would’ve been focused enough to really want that 4th title. I know he fell off a cliff in LA but when your leader is Shaq, theres really not enough leadership for Rodman to listen. I mean who was he going to respect? Shaq never won shit and had zero MVPs at the time, Kobe was a pup, and (that was when Rudy got sick right?) so I think Del was the coach :lol

As far as Pip goes, he was about as done as Elliott but I gotta give the edge to him over Sean.
The X-factor is really Kukoc

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So Rodman was going to respect Tim Floyd? Fuck outta here. Phil Jackson quit a week after their 98 title and Krause was badly itching to hire Floyd by then.

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Originally Posted by dbreiden83080

Spurs win.

Pippen is a shell by 99.. Hell he was shell by the finals of 98..
Jordan is 36 By June of 99.
Duncan would be too dominant.
David wanting that Ring so badly..
Spurs were dominant on D just like the Bulls.. Points at a premium. Who's helping Jordan?
Bulls just older and wore out..

Spurs in 6..

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This team destroyed the competition just a year before. So in your mind the Bulls decline so hard, that a spurs team win were a better jazz team could not...... *i doubt that*

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Originally Posted by Shakril

This team destroyed the competition just a year before. So in your mind the Bulls decline so hard, that a spurs team win were a better jazz team could not...... *i doubt that*

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Then you didn't pay attention. To anything.. The Bulls got past the Pacers by the air on their asses.. Even trailed by 10 in Game 7 with Jordan struggling. They pulled it out with Reggie shying away from the moment. Then Malone playing like shit in crunch time as usual most of the finals.. Was Pippen going to be Pippen anymore? Nope.. He was mediocre at best from 99 on. Rodman disinterested in Basketball. Jordan is 36 by June of 99.. 99 Spurs has a nice mix of vets, and Duncan unstoppable. That team was special. 15-2 in the playoffs..

Spurs sweep the Bulls. They would have been all amped up for that matchup. Too bad it didn't happen. That would have been a cool transition of power from Jordan to the GOAT.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Shakril

This team destroyed the competition just a year before. So in your mind the Bulls decline so hard, that a spurs team win were a better jazz team could not...... *i doubt that*

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Destroyed the competition? They got pushed to 7 by Indiana and would have likely lost to Utah if Malone didn't let himself get picked by Jordan with like 16 seconds left in Game 6. Utah also got hosed by Bavetta that game on a Howard Eisley three that got waved off even though he shot it with almost a second to spare and. And then Bavetta counted a Ron Harper shot that should have been a shot clock violation. The Bulls were so lucky to escape that game with a win. And no way the 98 Jazz were better than the 99 Spurs, not when having to rely on Karl Malone to close games out.

Also yes, the Bulls would have fallen off very hard because

1. Pippen lost a lot of athleticsm when he had back surgery that summer, going from franchise guy to good starter. He was never the same player again.
2. Rodman looked like he let himself go during the lockout, which you should remember from his disastrous stint in LA.
3. Phil Jackson retired right after they won the 98 title and Krause was determined to hire Tim Floyd.

Tell me how those three things aren't enormous dropoffs. You think Kukoc was going to pick up the slack for all three of those?

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Originally Posted by Ed Helicopter Jones

Spurs sweep the Bulls. They would have been all amped up for that matchup. Too bad it didn't happen. That would have been a cool transition of power from Jordan to the GOAT.

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To me it is a shame because that 99 Spurs team was one of the best ever IMO.. Largely forgotten.. The legacy of that team is different if they beat the Bulls.. Duncan could have began his legacy with beating Jordan.

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Originally Posted by dbreiden83080

To me it is a shame because that 99 Spurs team was one of the best ever IMO.. Largely forgotten.. The legacy of that team is different if they beat the Bulls.. Duncan could have began his legacy with beating Jordan.

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The media would have said it's not the same Bulls team. And they would have been right.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ed Helicopter Jones

Spurs sweep the Bulls. They would have been all amped up for that matchup. Too bad it didn't happen. That would have been a cool transition of power from Jordan to the GOAT.

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Nah you're not going to sweep Jordan & even a lesser Pippen. I'd take the 99 Spurs in 6 over a hypothetical 99 Bulls with the lesser Pippen, washed up Rodman, and Tim Floyd. Maybe 5 if Rodman started being the bitch he was in the 95 WCF when they got down in the series. Though if Pippen walked too, then yeah, sweep considering they would have been capped out and only able to offer $1.75 million MLE to find a Pippen replacement.

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Originally Posted by baseline bum

The Bulls were so lucky to escape that game with a win. And no way the 98 Jazz were better than the 99 Spurs, not when having to rely on Karl Malone to close games out.

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What you say about Malone is true. I watched the Jordan Sick Game Last Night.. Now this is the biggest game of the series for the Jazz. They played well the last 2 games tying it up 2-2. And Malone was lost out there.. He does not want the ball in the 4th qtr, and when he got it, he made terrible decisions one after another. At one point he rises up for a Jumper, then changes his mind last second throws the ball away.. He was just scared of the moment. You watch the 97 and 98 finals you see why the Jazz never won it all.. Malone put up the numbers, but Gut Check Time.. He didn't have it..

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Originally Posted by baseline bum

The media would have said it's not the same Bulls team. And they would have been right.

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Maybe. But the series would have been highly rated. And would be great to have on Duncan's legacy..

Spurs went 15-2 that year in the playoffs, and that iteration of the Spurs was one of the nastiest defensive teams ever. Tim/David would be clogging the paint, and while Jordan is a great midrange shooter, I don't see him and another year older Bulls squad taking down Tim entering his prime and David at the end of his. Would have definitely been a more competitive series versus Chicago rather than NY, but I think SA would prevail in 6

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Originally Posted by baseline bum

So Rodman was going to respect Tim Floyd? Fuck outta here. Phil Jackson quit a week after their 98 title and Krause was badly itching to hire Floyd by then.

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Its based off of what MJ said homie. Did you watch the doc? Phil would be coaching too.

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Originally Posted by Shakril

This team destroyed the competition just a year before. So in your mind the Bulls decline so hard, that a spurs team win were a better jazz team could not...... *i doubt that*

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the 98 Bulls team was probably the worst of their six ring teams, and were clearly running on fumes and biased calls.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dbreiden83080

To me it is a shame because that 99 Spurs team was one of the best ever IMO.. Largely forgotten.. The legacy of that team is different if they beat the Bulls.. Duncan could have began his legacy with beating Jordan.

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Originally Posted by Joseph Kony

Spurs went 15-2 that year in the playoffs, and that iteration of the Spurs was one of the nastiest defensive teams ever. Tim/David would be clogging the paint, and while Jordan is a great midrange shooter, I don't see him and another year older Bulls squad taking down Tim entering his prime and David at the end of his. Would have definitely been a more competitive series versus Chicago rather than NY, but I think SA would prevail in 6

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Not only 15-2 in the playoffs, but they closed the regular season 12-1
Included in that stretch was 3 against Portland and 2 against Utah.

One of the most underrated teams ever. The shortened season, the lack of the Bulls and the team was not built for the long run has led people to forget about them. Spurs in 6, maybe 5.

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Originally Posted by exstatic

the 98 Bulls team was probably the worst of their six ring teams, and were clearly running on fumes and biased calls.

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They reminded me a lot like the '02 Lakers. A team that barely won on some clutch plays and bad calls. When you barely win it's always a sign to me that your time is up.

Spurs for many resons

We took the GOAT Steve Kerr from them :lol

But more seriously :

- Bulls were burned out, Jordan was burned out.... MJ needed help from the refs against the mighty NJ Nets lmao

- Bulls were old and it was a very condensed 50 game calendar, and that's not good for old legs

- Jordan cut his hand with a cigare cutter and had a surgery which required a long recovery

- Pippen was starting to decline.... but I'm not sure he would have accepted a 1 year contract anyway, I don't care what Jordan said in his puff piece documentary

- Rodman wasn't giving a fuck anymore

- Our backcourt wasn't great, but our frontline would have given them more trouble

- Pop wasn't senile yet

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Originally Posted by lefty

Spurs for many resons

We took the GOAT Steve Kerr from them :lol

But more seriously :

- Bulls were burned out, Jordan was burned out

- Bulls were old and it was a very condensed 50 game calendar, and that's not good for old legs

- Jordan cut his hand with a cigare cutter and had a surgery which required a long recovery

- Pippen was starting to decline.... but I'm not sure he would have accepted a 1 year contract anyway, I don't care what Jordan said in his puff piece documentary

- Rodman wasn't giving a fuck anymore

- Our backcourt wasn't great, but our frontline would have given them more trouble

- Pop wasn't senile yet

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:lol

Payback against Spurs would be massive motivating factor for Rodman. Spurs biggest edge in the 1999 Finals was on the boards.

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Originally Posted by FrostKing

Payback against Spurs would be massive motivating factor for Rodman. Spurs biggest edge in the 1999 Finals was on the boards.

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You can also say the same for David Robinson since he didn't like Rodman.

Late game in 1998 season
Bulls only 4 games better than SAS
No Sean Elliot or Luc Longley

https://youtu.be/J3JbTrKvVew

Bulls have no answer for Robinson
Spurs have no answer for Kukoc or Jordan
Ron Harper dominated Avery Johnson
16 boards for Rodman operating alone in the paint

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Originally Posted by FrostKing

Late game in 1998 season
Bulls only 4 games better than SAS
No Sean Elliot or Luc Longley

https://youtu.be/J3JbTrKvVew

Bulls have no answer for Robinson
Spurs have no answer for Kukoc or Jordan
Ron Harper dominated Avery Johnson
16 boards for Rodman operating alone in the paint

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All those players were different in '99. You can also show videos of the Lakers dominating the Spurs during the '02 playoffs. We all saw a different team a year later when they met for the rematch.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FrostKing

Payback against Spurs would be massive motivating factor for Rodman. Spurs biggest edge in the 1999 Finals was on the boards.

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Rofl o

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dbreiden83080

Spurs win.

Pippen is a shell by 99.. Hell he was shell by the finals of 98..
Jordan is 36 By June of 99.
Duncan would be too dominant.
David wanting that Ring so badly..
Spurs were dominant on D just like the Bulls.. Points at a premium. Who's helping Jordan?
Bulls just older and wore out..

Spurs in 6..

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Obvious troll post.

Anyway, the Spurs in 6. The Bulls were wore out physically & mentally by '99. Duncan was young, hungry plus him and big Dave were a interior duo never seen before by Chicago. They would have obliterated the group of Wennington, Longley (if retained) and Rodman.

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Originally Posted by KobesAchilles

Its based off of what MJ said homie. Did you watch the doc? Phil would be coaching too.

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No I didn't watch the documentary. Did Jordan say he was retiring right after winning in 98 and is that why Phil Jackson resigned a week later? No matter what you still weren't getting franchise Pippen anymore after his back surgery. Sad everyone forgets how awesome Pippen was before that surgery because he got embarrassed by young Kobe in the 99 playoffs and was more a high end role player than star after that. Anyone who says a hypothetical 99 Bulls would have been anywhere near as good as the 98 team is completely discounting how great a player Pippen was in his prime.

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Originally Posted by FrostKing

Payback against Spurs would be massive motivating factor for Rodman. Spurs biggest edge in the 1999 Finals was on the boards.

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Payback for trading him to the best possible situation after he pouted and acted like a faggot in the 95 WCF? Don't ever tell me Rodman badly wanted to win when he was just jacking up threes in the first quarter of a must win Game 2 of the 95 WCF.

For all the reasons that have probably been said, Spurs.

It likely would have been similar to the '04, '14 and '19 Finals, where the spent current or former champion probably gets through a weak conference (or in the case of '04, gets lucky thanks to a shot that should have never counted) only to get beaten soundly in the Finals.

Even though the media would inevitably make excuses for the Bulls (like '95), it would have robbed Jordan/them of some of their mystique and further elevated Duncan/the Spurs.

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Originally Posted by daslicer

All those players were different in '99. You can also show videos of the Lakers dominating the Spurs during the '02 playoffs. We all saw a different team a year later when they met for the rematch.

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Not to mention Elliott was the team's only perimeter defender in 98 and he was out for the season by then.

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Originally Posted by lefty

- Pippen was starting to decline.... but I'm not sure he would have accepted a 1 year contract anyway, I don't care what Jordan said in his puff piece documentary

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Especially not since that contract would have only been for $11 million. Pippen was only making $2.8 million in 97-98 so he couldn't have had a huge contract grandfathered in under the new CBA that year like Jordan would have been able to (Jordan would have been eligible for $34.8 million as a 5% raise on his 97-98 salary). Especially not coming off an injury plagued 97-98 season and back surgery. Pippen had been waiting forever to get paid and he was taking no shorts that year.

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Originally Posted by J_Paco

Obvious troll post.

Anyway, the Spurs in 6. The Bulls were wore out physically & mentally by '99. Duncan was young, hungry plus him and big Dave were a interior duo never seen before by Chicago. They would have obliterated the group of Wennington, Longley (if retained) and Rodman.

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I'll take this a bit further, IF you could magically transport either team through time, I think the 99 Spurs would have had a decent chance against the 98 Bulls


Of course Steve Kerr guarding himself might have messed with the time space continuum

I think it comes down to who has the best glue guy, tbh.

I wish they could’ve played, cause then Timmys dominance would have been that much more impressive

:cry athletic running the floor timmy :cry

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Originally Posted by baseline bum

No I didn't watch the documentary. Did Jordan say he was retiring right after winning in 98 and is that why Phil Jackson resigned a week later? No matter what you still weren't getting franchise Pippen anymore after his back surgery. Sad everyone forgets how awesome Pippen was before that surgery because he got embarrassed by young Kobe in the 99 playoffs and was more a high end role player than star after that. Anyone who says a hypothetical 99 Bulls would have been anywhere near as good as the 98 team is completely discounting how great a player Pippen was in his prime.

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It was the end of the doc. Jordan said that had the re-signed Phil then he would’ve come back. He said Dennis would’ve come back. That Scotty would’ve come back bc Jordan would’ve made sure it worked out in the FO and that the others would’ve signed one year contracts to go for 4.

I know that they would’ve been worse that year but Jordan was still MVP and averaging 30 a game and still playing good defense. Phil owned Pop in the playoffs and it would’ve been a battle for sure. Astericks win game 1 and then Chicago wins game 2 and finishes them off back in SA

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Originally Posted by KobesAchilles

It was the end of the doc. Jordan said that had the re-signed Phil then he would’ve come back. He said Dennis would’ve come back. That Scotty would’ve come back bc Jordan would’ve made sure it worked out in the FO and that the others would’ve signed one year contracts to go for 4.

I know that they would’ve been worse that year but Jordan was still MVP and averaging 30 a game and still playing good defense. Phil owned Pop in the playoffs and it would’ve been a battle for sure. Astericks win game 1 and then Chicago wins game 2 and finishes them off back in SA

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Serious question: were you an NBA fan in the late 90s? Pippen was always incredibly pissed about being underpaid and was not taking shorts once he hit free agency. There was no way in hell he was signing a one year deal that year, and especially not after missing half of 97-98 and getting surgery. Pippen was making peanuts. Highest paid player on the team was Jordan. Next were Ron Harper and Toni Kukoc, then Rodman, then Longley, and finally Pippen. Sixth highest paid player on the roster, only making $2.8 million when Longley was pulling $3.2 million and Harper $4.5 million. Pippen was mad as fuck about this and was determined to get paid once his Bulls contract ran out. Would you blame him when he was a franchise player sandwiched in between Bill Wennington and Luc Longley in terms of what he was getting paid? He was not signing a one year deal.

The Bulls could not make him a large single year offer like they could Jordan because Jordan was signed under a collective bargaining agreement that allowed you to sign your own Bird Free Agents to whatever the hell you wanted to. That's how Jordan made $33 million in 1997-98 despite the salary cap being only around $30 million. And they could have paid him up to $34.8 million in 99 because his contract was grandfathered in under the new 1999 CBA. But Pippen they couldn't make a big $25 million single year offer to. All they could offer was the standard max salary of $11 million set by the 1999 collective bargaining agreement. Had they renegotiated Pippen's deal in the summer of 97 and given him say $20 million that season then they could have had that one grandfathered in too under the 1999 CBA, and offered him $21 million in 1999 (a 5% raise on the grandfathered 1998 contract). So it was five year max deal or he was walking.

And he was right to want to chase the long-term money, because he was never the same player again after that surgery. A stone cold fact you keep ignoring when acting like a hypothetical 99 Bulls team was going to continue in the tradition of the 96, 97, and 98 teams. You're minimizing just how great Pippen was before that surgery by acting like that slowed down Pippen would still let them be favorites in 99.

Please someone tell me why 33 year old Scottie Pippen, angry for years about being paid peanuts without his contract being renegotiated, on the verge of the first big contract of his entire career, coming off a year where he missed half the season, coming off back surgery, and who hated the Bulls front office... tell me why he was signing a one year deal in Chicago for $11 million when his market value turned out to be 5 years, $67 million.

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Originally Posted by baseline bum

Serious question: were you an NBA fan in the late 90s? Pippen was always incredibly pissed about being underpaid and was not taking shorts once he hit free agency. There was no way in hell he was signing a one year deal that year, and especially not after missing half of 97-98 and getting surgery. Pippen was making peanuts. Highest paid player on the team was Jordan. Next were Ron Harper and Toni Kukoc, then Rodman, then Longley, and finally Pippen. Sixth highest paid player on the roster, only making $2.8 million when Longley was pulling $3.2 million and Harper $4.5 million. Pippen was mad as fuck about this and was determined to get paid once his Bulls contract ran out. Would you blame him when he was a franchise player sandwiched in between Bill Wennington and Luc Longley in terms of what he was getting paid? He was not signing a one year deal.

The Bulls could not make him a large single year offer like they could Jordan because Jordan was signed under a collective bargaining agreement that allowed you to sign your own Bird Free Agents to whatever the hell you wanted to. That's how Jordan made $33 million in 1997-98 despite the salary cap being only around $30 million. And they could have paid him up to $34.8 million in 99 because his contract was grandfathered in under the new 1999 CBA. But Pippen they couldn't make a big $25 million single year offer to. All they could offer was the standard max salary of $11 million set by the 1999 collective bargaining agreement. Had they renegotiated Pippen's deal in the summer of 97 and given him say $20 million that season then they could have had that one grandfathered in too under the 1999 CBA, and offered him $21 million in 1999 (a 5% raise on the grandfathered 1998 contract). So it was five year max deal or he was walking.

And he was right to want to chase the long-term money, because he was never the same player again after that surgery. A stone cold fact you keep ignoring when acting like a hypothetical 99 Bulls team was going to continue in the tradition of the 96, 97, and 98 teams. You're minimizing just how great Pippen was before that surgery by acting like that slowed down Pippen would still let them be favorites in 99.

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I started following the NBA and became a fan in 1995. Same year Spurs lost to the Rockets. I loved the NBA more than I did the Spurs (whom I liked). But my favorite players were really kinda random players and not at all the stars of the league, like Starks and KJ and Kukoc. I didn’t really become a Spurs fan until we got Tim.
Trolling aside I do think the Spurs win. Tim was a monster that year. He was unstoppable. He shat all over Dudley (whom I compare to Longley) and destroyed Cambys soul. I mean that was the most dominant finals I had ever seen from a player (even better than his 03 finals). Rodman was finished and that 99 Laker team was a mess anyways. The Logo really did work and changed the whole dynamic of the Lakers very quickly.

Anyways yeah Pippen wanted out like 3 years prior :lol so no way he was staying. Harper was done. Everybody was just tired and old and worn out. It happens. But I would’ve loved to have seen that match up. It would’ve just added to Duncan’s legacy who through the nitpicking of the national media don’t really credit Duncan’s championships. “He beat the Knicks! They were the 8th seed! That whole season was a mess. Spurs weren’t that great of a champion”

Sidenote the 01 Lakers really fucked us over bc they. Only lost 1 game and beat our record of 15-2 that I was super proud of as a Spurs fan

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Originally Posted by KobesAchilles

I started following the NBA and became a fan in 1995. Same year Spurs lost to the Rockets. I loved the NBA more than I did the Spurs (whom I liked). But my favorite players were really kinda random players and not at all the stars of the league, like Starks and KJ and Kukoc. I didn’t really become a Spurs fan until we got Tim.
Trolling aside I do think the Spurs win. Tim was a monster that year. He was unstoppable. He shat all over Dudley (whom I compare to Longley) and destroyed Cambys soul. I mean that was the most dominant finals I had ever seen from a player (even better than his 03 finals). Rodman was finished and that 99 Laker team was a mess anyways. The Logo really did work and changed the whole dynamic of the Lakers very quickly.

Anyways yeah Pippen wanted out like 3 years prior :lol so no way he was staying. Harper was done. Everybody was just tired and old and worn out. It happens. But I would’ve loved to have seen that match up. It would’ve just added to Duncan’s legacy who through the nitpicking of the national media don’t really credit Duncan’s championships. “He beat the Knicks! They were the 8th seed! That whole season was a mess. Spurs weren’t that great of a champion”

Sidenote the 01 Lakers really fucked us over bc they. Only lost 1 game and beat our record of 15-2 that I was super proud of as a Spurs fan

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I just wanted to point out "Harper was done"

In 1999 Harper had a higher PER than 3/5 of the Spurs starting lineup.

And he would start 78 games the following season in 2000 for the Champions

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Originally Posted by FrostKing

I just wanted to point out "Harper was done"

In 1999 Harper had a higher PER than 3/5 of the Spurs starting lineup.

And he would start 78 games the following season in 2000 for the Champions

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That team was all about Rice, Kobe, and Shaq. Harpers job really was to just play decent defense and get the ball to Shaq

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Originally Posted by Maddog

I'll take this a bit further, IF you could magically transport either team through time, I think the 99 Spurs would have had a decent chance against the 98 Bulls


Of course Steve Kerr guarding himself might have messed with the time space continuum

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No way Steve Kerr could guard himself. :lol

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Originally Posted by Maddog

I'll take this a bit further, IF you could magically transport either team through time, I think the 99 Spurs would have had a decent chance against the 98 Bulls


Of course Steve Kerr guarding himself might have messed with the time space continuum

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I'd take the Spurs in that series, but only because Pippen's back injury was inevitable considering he screwed it up on a non-contact play after a dunk, I think in Game 1 of the Finals. By games 5 & 6 of that series Pippen was absolutely worthless. Now if it was the 98 Bulls with a healthy Pippen I'd probably take them in 7 against the 99 Spurs.

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Originally Posted by KobesAchilles

I started following the NBA and became a fan in 1995. Same year Spurs lost to the Rockets. I loved the NBA more than I did the Spurs (whom I liked). But my favorite players were really kinda random players and not at all the stars of the league, like Starks and KJ and Kukoc. I didn’t really become a Spurs fan until we got Tim.
Trolling aside I do think the Spurs win. Tim was a monster that year. He was unstoppable. He shat all over Dudley (whom I compare to Longley) and destroyed Cambys soul. I mean that was the most dominant finals I had ever seen from a player (even better than his 03 finals). Rodman was finished and that 99 Laker team was a mess anyways. The Logo really did work and changed the whole dynamic of the Lakers very quickly.

Anyways yeah Pippen wanted out like 3 years prior :lol so no way he was staying. Harper was done. Everybody was just tired and old and worn out. It happens. But I would’ve loved to have seen that match up. It would’ve just added to Duncan’s legacy who through the nitpicking of the national media don’t really credit Duncan’s championships. “He beat the Knicks! They were the 8th seed! That whole season was a mess. Spurs weren’t that great of a champion”

Sidenote the 01 Lakers really fucked us over bc they. Only lost 1 game and beat our record of 15-2 that I was super proud of as a Spurs fan

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The '99 team also had another record which was the longest playoff win streak at 12 games. That was the record I was proud of. I was pissed off when the Warriors broke it in '17. Them taking out #2 allowed them to get the record.

If Jordan won in '99 there would have been no asterisk talk I can tell you that

Definitely Spurs

Early prime Duncan > late prime Jordan
Past prime Robinson > Past prime Pippen

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Originally Posted by InRareForm

If Jordan won in '99 there would have been no asterisk talk I can tell you that

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That whole asterisk thing started with Jackson playig mind games

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Originally Posted by dbreiden83080

Spurs win.

Pippen is a shell by 99.. Hell he was shell by the finals of 98..
Jordan is 36 By June of 99.
Duncan would be too dominant.
David wanting that Ring so badly..
Spurs were dominant on D just like the Bulls.. Points at a premium. Who's helping Jordan?
Bulls just older and wore out..

Spurs in 6..

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This is about how I see it. The Twin Towers would absolutely dominate this matchup.

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Originally Posted by rudwick

No way Steve Kerr could guard himself. :lol

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Or anyone else for that matter :lol

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Originally Posted by exstatic

I was wondering how KA forgot that.

Shell Pippen. Shell Rodman. So, pretty much a return to MJs early career: him vs. everyone.

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Only this time he would be 36 years old.

Wasn't a real season anyhow so it doesn't matter.

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Originally Posted by Dirks_Finale

Or anyone else for that matter :lol

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:lol

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Originally Posted by Arcadian

Definitely Spurs

Early prime Duncan > late prime Jordan
Past prime Robinson > Past prime Pippen

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https://media.giphy.com/media/VFYJXIuuFl6pO/source.gif

99 Spurs and it's not even particularly close tbh

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Originally Posted by FrostKing

https://media.giphy.com/media/VFYJXIuuFl6pO/source.gif

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I actually think to an extent Bulls MGT saved Jordan from himself. So much of that GOAT legacy is about the 6/6.. Never saw him really fail in big spots in the 90's, other than 95, and I give him a pass on that. But if MJ Wanted to run the tank dry, Bulls obviously lose, and we see Jordan fail.. When I was a kid I always thought it was so great he went out on top..

Then came the Wizards, and lets not discuss that..

Why do people give Jordan a pass for 95?

And don't give me that he was rusty BS argument, by the time they got to the playoffs the rust was long gone

If Lebron got stripped by Nick or if he passed instead of shooting you would never hear the end of it :lol

Do you watch baseball? If not, google image search Bartolo Colon, CC Sabathia, Dmitri Young, etc... There is a huuuuuge difference between baseball shape and basketball shape. In 95 you could see Jordan did not have his legs under him. It was clear as day. The only other explantion was he was washed up - --a theory he refuted in 96.

He played like 17 games before the playoffs. His conditioning was not up to par.

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Originally Posted by lefty

Why do people give Jordan a pass for 95?

And don't give me that he was rusty BS argument, by the time they got to the playoffs the rust was long gone

If Lebron got stripped by Nick or if he passed instead of shooting you would never hear the end of it :lol

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Originally Posted by Dirks_Finale

Do you watch baseball? If not, google image search Bartolo Colon, CC Sabathia, Dmitri Young, etc... There is a huuuuuge difference between baseball shape and basketball shape. In 95 you could see Jordan did not have his legs under him. It was clear as day. The only other explantion was he was washed up - --a theory he refuted in 96.

He played like 17 games before the playoffs. His conditioning was not up to par.

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Baseball is not a sport

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Originally Posted by lefty

Baseball is not a sport

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:lol

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Originally Posted by lefty

Why do people give Jordan a pass for 95?

And don't give me that he was rusty BS argument, by the time they got to the playoffs the rust was long gone

If Lebron got stripped by Nick or if he passed instead of shooting you would never hear the end of it :lol

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Because it's a legit excuse that's why.. He was off nearly 2 years.. Training daily in a different sport. By Nov of 95 he was ready to crush everyone again..

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Originally Posted by Dirks_Finale

Do you watch baseball? If not, google image search Bartolo Colon, CC Sabathia, Dmitri Young, etc... There is a huuuuuge difference between baseball shape and basketball shape. In 95 you could see Jordan did not have his legs under him. It was clear as day. The only other explantion was he was washed up - --a theory he refuted in 96.

He played like 17 games before the playoffs. His conditioning was not up to par.

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Exactly. 2 different skill sets. And he was gone nearly 2 years.. Not 2 months..

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Originally Posted by lefty

Baseball is not a sport

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Probably going to be the closest thing to one you see in 2020 tho

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Originally Posted by dbreiden83080

Exactly. 2 different skill sets. And he was gone nearly 2 years.. Not 2 months..

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On top of all that, it's not like Nick Anderson was a scrub or Orlando was a bad team. I've seen Lebron get outscored by a role player in the 2011 Finals. Also seen him get stuffed by Nate Robinson. :lol

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Originally Posted by Dirks_Finale

On top of all that, it's not like Nick Anderson was a scrub or Orlando was a bad team. I've seen Lebron get outscored by a role player in the 2011 Finals. Also seen him get stuffed by Nate Robinson. :lol

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The dude couldn’t post up JJ Barea. Just throwing that out there

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Originally Posted by lefty

Baseball is not a sport

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You're making the other side's point, then. If baseball isn't a sport, then he was clearly in bad shape from playing a non-sport.

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Originally Posted by dbreiden83080

Then came the Wizards, and lets not discuss that..

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I don't think the Wizards years hurt his legacy at all, tbh. If anything, it adds to his legend a bit - here is this 40 year old guy coming out of retirement and putting up 40 points multiple times. His team wasn't very good, but that's the part you ignore because he's a 40 year old coming out of retirement. Nobody in their right mind would've thought the Wizards could do anything, but individually he was still pretty great.

jordan benefited by being away when the teams built around great centers decided to get their acts together by actually putting pieces together...

too bad the spurs had to wait til td arrive, those drob spurs from 90-95 = needed a reliable 2nd man...

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Originally Posted by Arcadian

I don't think the Wizards years hurt his legacy at all, tbh. If anything, it adds to his legend a bit - here is this 40 year old guy coming out of retirement and putting up 40 points multiple times. His team wasn't very good, but that's the part you ignore because he's a 40 year old coming out of retirement. Nobody in their right mind would've thought the Wizards could do anything, but individually he was still pretty great.

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He was still pretty good, showed you the flashes of greatness. I just thought it was so awesome he had a perfect ending to his career. Retiring at the peak of his game, winning another championship and hitting the game-winning shot.

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Originally Posted by Arcadian

I don't think the Wizards years hurt his legacy at all, tbh. If anything, it adds to his legend a bit - here is this 40 year old guy coming out of retirement and putting up 40 points multiple times. His team wasn't very good, but that's the part you ignore because he's a 40 year old coming out of retirement. Nobody in their right mind would've thought the Wizards could do anything, but individually he was still pretty great.

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IDK, I think most people pretend like old man lottery Jordan never happened. It was pretty bad seeing Charles Smith eat him alive on TNT for example.

Cool flashback. Some old Spurs

https://youtu.be/Yj5vmnv9o8Q