Coulda used Darius Bazley, Brandon Clarke, or Matisse Thybulle in this bubble tbh

But instead... we got a European player with bricks as feet. This guy runs like it hurts.

Oh lort. Smh.

I was against the Luka pick as much as most but at least we hit with Keldon, just gotta hope Luka puts in work and figures it out eventually

Say what you want about Luka but slow is not one of them. If you want to say he is lazy or needs to put more effort/aggressiveness, fine. Mentioned it before but if that is an issue with him they should have Diaw talk to him. A player who realized he needed to be more aggressive after the '13 Finals with how close the series was.

This again?

So you would have us take Mr. X at #19 rather than Luka (I agree he sucks).

If so, whoever actually took Mr. X (as it turned out in reality) instead takes Keldon Johnson. And the Spurs don't get KJ at #29.

So would you rather have Mr. X or KJ? (Based on the Mr. Xs you all have proposed, I'd rather have KJ.)

Be careful what you wish for and always consider unintended collateral consequences.

I understand the reasoning for passing on Clarke and Thybulle(both older rookies) but Bazley is actually younger than Luka and already much better than him. I think Buford had blinders on and went against all reason to draft Sam, someone he'd been scouting for years.

Luka sucks we all know this

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Originally Posted by Russ

So you would have us take Mr. X at #19 rather than Luka (I agree he sucks).

If so, whoever actually took Mr. X (as it turned out in reality) instead takes Keldon Johnson. And the Spurs don't get KJ at #29.

So would you rather have Mr. X or KJ? (Based on the Mr. Xs you all have proposed, I'd rather have KJ.)

Be careful what you wish for and always consider unintended collateral consequences.

---

I agree with this. Why can't people endlessly complaining about Luka on every single thread, not pretend like we took Keldon at #19? He's looking like the steal of the draft and probably would've still been a steal at #19. Some people just love to hate things...

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Originally Posted by kht

But instead... we got a European player with bricks as feet. This guy runs like it hurts.

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We're on the verge of going 6-2...

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Originally Posted by Russ

So you would have us take Mr. X at #19 rather than Luka (I agree he sucks).

If so, whoever actually took Mr. X (as it turned out in reality) instead takes Keldon Johnson. And the Spurs don't get KJ at #29.

So would you rather have Mr. X or KJ? (Based on the Mr. Xs you all have proposed, I'd rather have KJ.)

Be careful what you wish for and always consider unintended collateral consequences.

---

28 FO's passed on Keldon before the Spurs. You're saying that if the Spurs took Thybulle at 19, and Sammich stayed on the board, someone between 20 and 28 would have automatically fallen in love with KJ? That also means that Sammich would have fallen to 29 or later, if the Spurs hadn't picked him at 19.

Gotta watch out for those unintended consequences.

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Originally Posted by Sugus

I agree with this. Why can't people endlessly complaining about Luka on every single thread, not pretend like we took Keldon at #19? He's looking like the steal of the draft and probably would've still been a steal at #19. Some people just love to hate things...

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No... some people love to hate an FO that gives shitty contracts to Pau and Patty, and extends people early. Hating on them for drafting Sammich is just a bonus.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Russ

So you would have us take Mr. X at #19 rather than Luka (I agree he sucks).

If so, whoever actually took Mr. X (as it turned out in reality) instead takes Keldon Johnson. And the Spurs don't get KJ at #29.

So would you rather have Mr. X or KJ? (Based on the Mr. Xs you all have proposed, I'd rather have KJ.)

Be careful what you wish for and always consider unintended collateral consequences.

---

So let's take this a bit further. Say that you go back in time to redraft for the Spurs. Because you don't want to miss out on Johnson, you go ahead and take him at 19. Somehow the draft goes exactly as it had before, so Luka is there at 29. Is he still the guy? Certainly, he's a justifiable pick there. He'd be a high-upside dude making peanuts locked in for four years. With most of the other PFs off the board, maybe... For me Sam wouldn't be my guy. I really liked last year's center class, and at 29. Claxton and Fernando were still on the board. Roby was still on board as well, and I was a huge fan of his last year.

Here are their stats for this season:

Hasn't worked out for any of those guys so far either. Only Fernando has played more than 200 minutes (and that's with the other three players being on bubble teams). He has good rate stats but his foul prone and seems to be an awful defender. Roby was traded and doesn't see any time. Claxton is stuck behind other centers.

So yeah, right now, if you imagine Johnson as 19, there isn't a ton to complain about. Maybe one of those guys breaks out and becomes way better than Sam. My money would be on Claxton, but it's not like he doesn't have his problems as well. Regardless, Sam is doing okay for a 29th pick. Only three players drafted below him earned more than one win-share this year, and only one of those guys did it with good rate stats. So maybe the Spurs should've drafted Daniel Gafford over Samanic at 29? Maybe. We'll have to see how he develops. He didn't light the world on fire, but he was a solid role-playing backup big. Nothing to sneeze at, but he was also basically Drew Eubanks with a tan.

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Originally Posted by ZeusWillJudge

No... some people love to hate an FO that gives shitty contracts to Pau and Patty, and extends people early. Hating on them for drafting Sammich is just a bonus.

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Hating on Samanic as a pick, when he hasn't finished his rookie season and was drafted expressly to be a project (whether the Spurs should or shouldn't have done that is a different debate entirely), is ridiculous. And hitting the lottery with Keldon in the very same draft, is already much more of a "make-up" than can be asked for. There literally wouldn't be any issue if the Spurs had drafted the same two players, with the pick # switched, and yet people moan to hell and back that the Spurs aren't pulling Kawhi's out of a 19th pick. I don't know, maybe people truly find enjoyment in hating, even preemptively and before seeing things pan out.

The Pau and Patty contracts were bad, though, btw. Luckily people aren't making new threads about them now.

Too quick to judge. He got the footwork and quickness for his size. Once he gets his confidence, he will surprise a lot of fans.

Darius Bazely seemed like a good pick too but I think Spurs like Luka because Luka likes the Spurs. He is a foreigner who seems like it will take a few years for him to get comfortable in SA, let alone any other big city in the US and NBA basketball. He seems like a guy who would stay loyal should things pan out which is the only way the Spurs can win a championship again.
Their consistent rejections from every free agent class would probably confirm that to them. Players in general baulk at living in SA still I'm sure. Hopefully that can change in 5 years with the crazy growth TX in general is seeing.

Seeing Luka play in the NBA he has looked like a bust but i dug up some of his g-league highlights recently and i can see his potential and why the Spurs took the gamble on him. He has the tools to be a really good player especially if he increases his strength.

Luka actually has a pretty crafty rather unpredictable game when he is focused and into it, can take it to the basket and shoot 3's. He just seems lost when he is playing with the big boys for some reason. I think with a little confidence and some added mass he can be a great player for us in the future. At least time is on his side, its all on him now to take the next step.

We could have used Aldridge. He would have finished that play against Philly that Poeltl flubbed, and we’d have the play in locked with a win today.

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Originally Posted by exstatic

We could have used Aldridge. He would have finished that play against Philly that Poeltl flubbed, and we’d have the play in locked with a win today.

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Aldridge could have won games for the Spurs all season long. But he didn‘t.

Wasted pick.

if we're lucky, Luka becomes Trey Lyles one day :lol

to be fair most people wanted Nassir Little at 19 at the time

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Originally Posted by SpurSpike

Seeing Luka play in the NBA he has looked like a bust but i dug up some of his g-league highlights recently and i can see his potential and why the Spurs took the gamble on him. He has the tools to be a really good player especially if he increases his strength.

Luka actually has a pretty crafty rather unpredictable game when he is focused and into it, can take it to the basket and shoot 3's. He just seems lost when he is playing with the big boys for some reason. I think with a little confidence and some added mass he can be a great player for us in the future. At least time is on his side, its all on him now to take the next step.

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I agree with this statement.

I’ve seen him play live at cedar park a couple of times and like stated above it’s obvious why the Spurs drafted him. The big thing that bothers me though is the same knocks he had on him coming into the draft are still there. I get it’s going to take time to get better but it does seem like his motor isn’t the best or he kinda gives up easy if stuff isn’t going his way. He did get better in the G-League as the season progressed though. The reason his numbers looks so bad is he started off rough

we will see if he gets better though. He definitely needs to get more muscle mass and strength but he also needs to play harder on both sides of the ball.

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Originally Posted by spurraider21

to be fair most people wanted Nassir Little at 19 at the time

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yeah I remember wanting little

hows he been? Isn’t he on the blazers?

Sure thing. Just glad the Spurs had pick 29 last summer and got Johnson there.

Otherwise, I think a lot more people would be complaining about their choice for 19th.

The ironic thing too is that Clarke and Thybulle-- two guys who "couldn't shoot"-- both had better 3pt%s in the NBA than Samanic-- the big with "shooting touch"-- had in the G-league.

I haven't given up on Samanic yet. Give him another year to acclimate to a new country, a new lifestyle, a new brand of basketball... but the first year numbers are not promising. He had the lowest Win Shares on his G- league team, along with a poor BPM. He's not even an average G league player yet, never mind a decent NBA player.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Russ

So you would have us take Mr. X at #19 rather than Luka (I agree he sucks).

If so, whoever actually took Mr. X (as it turned out in reality) instead takes Keldon Johnson. And the Spurs don't get KJ at #29.

So would you rather have Mr. X or KJ? (Based on the Mr. Xs you all have proposed, I'd rather have KJ.)

Be careful what you wish for and always consider unintended collateral consequences.

---

This.

The biggest problem with retroactive decision-making is that you can't be 100% sure that everything else would have turned out the same. The future is not determinstic, and thus neither is the alternate "past" from the decision point forward.

It's the same as saying that the Spurs would be 6-1 in the bubble and in control of their playoff destiny if they had beaten Philly. That assumes that all the other games after that would have gone the same way, both for the Spurs and all the other teams, and that's just a baseless assumption. Just because something did happen, it doesn't mean it had to happen.

In this particular case, there is certainly a chance that the team who picked Bazley would have taken Keldon if the Spurs had picked Bazley. The same goes for Clarke and Thybulle. Sure there's a chance the Spurs could have come out of last year's draft with Keldon and one of those three. But it's nowhere near guaranteed.

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Originally Posted by jbspurs

Too quick to judge. He got the footwork and quickness for his size. Once he gets his confidence, he will surprise a lot of fans.

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Another “please wait for the soft Euro scrub to get better” while normally developed players ball out take

Today's game should show what kind of player Luka could be. He cleans up his handle and that ceiling could be even higher. If only we had a couple more games like this from him then people would stop crying about Clarke...

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Originally Posted by Dejounte

Today's game should show what kind of player Luka could be. He cleans up his handle and that ceiling could be even higher. If only we had a couple more games like this from him then people would stop crying about Clarke...

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Clarke might have been the difference between making and missing the playoffs. And a first round exit if they make it. But now that it’s over, you now have a much higher upside player (younger) and are picking about 4-5 spots higher in the draft.

Samanic just needs to work on his team defense and overall positioning. If he can defend and knock down open 3s he can contribute. After that he can work on post moves and his handle

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cjw

Clarke might have been the difference between making and missing the playoffs. And a first round exit if they make it. But now that it’s over, you now have a much higher upside player (younger) and are picking about 4-5 spots higher in the draft.

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Yeah it could have been, but the best we could have gotten with Clarke would have been a 7 th or 8th while will luka, after what he showed this game, easiy could be theat in the best.

with Clarke we're probably a 7-8th seat for the next few years. Unless someone breaks out.
If Luka reaches his ceiling we could be more.

Its a risk that you have to Take and sometime you need to consider the future and the best for the team in the next upcoming year.

I am feeling better about Luka after this game.
He does look like he could play 10-15 minutes as a perimeter forward with ballhandlers that don't ask too much of him with the ball.
I feel less comfortable about him battling other bigs, bc he needs to get stronger and have better awareness.
A good thing he did in that game was that he stayed mostly within himself and didn't try to do too much, just took shots that were open and moved the ball without getting fancy. Overall really encouraged by that showing as starting point to build from.

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Originally Posted by phxspurfan

Another “please wait for the soft Euro scrub to get better” while normally developed players ball out take

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Those Another helped Spurs win titles!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cjw

Clarke might have been the difference between making and missing the playoffs. And a first round exit if they make it. But now that it’s over, you now have a much higher upside player (younger) and are picking about 4-5 spots higher in the draft.

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I'm not sure Samanic has a "much higher" upside. Seriously, Clarke would've been the second-best big on the Spurs the last few years. It's not that easy to get better players, and he can still improve quite a bit as he adapts mentally to the game and gains more strength. I don't want to really go through the whole debate again, but the idea that Clarke is for now and Sam is for later is not necessarily true at all. That goes double for this assumption that Clarke's advantage is going to be gone in just one season or that the team no longer needs a player in that mold to make them a playoff contender. You have folks trying to trade Murray-plus to give Jerami Grant $16 Million a year, and, do I have to say it? Fine. Clarke outplayed Grant by a huge margin.

Again I'm rooting for Sam, but it has to be a "wait and see" thing with him. He has a long way to go before he's ready to save any team.

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Originally Posted by jbspurs

Those Another helped Spurs win titles!

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TP was starting basically from day 1 and had NBA level skills from jump (speed, finishing, scoring). Manu only came here after a year or two or whatever and already had won overseas, and was awesome after initial injury. No comparison with EuroScrubs. We knew both were good from their first days.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by phxspurfan

TP was starting basically from day 1 and had NBA level skills from jump (speed, finishing, scoring). Manu only came here after a year or two or whatever and already had won overseas, and was awesome after initial injury. No comparison with EuroScrubs. We knew both were good from their first days.

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Wasn't Manu already 25 as a rookie?

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Originally Posted by RC_Drunkford

Samanic just needs to work on his team defense and overall positioning. If he can defend and knock down open 3s he can contribute. After that he can work on post moves and his handle

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So, let's see. A pro basketball player drafted in the first round who needs to learn:

- defense
- positioning (IQ)
- shooting
- dribbling

thats basically all of basketball

Quote:

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Originally Posted by phxspurfan

TP was starting basically from day 1 and had NBA level skills from jump (speed, finishing, scoring). Manu only came here after a year or two or whatever and already had won overseas, and was awesome after initial injury. No comparison with EuroScrubs. We knew both were good from their first days.

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Knew both were good from first day? Pleeease! 28th overall and 57th overall, And you knew from their first day? I guess you knew also that Kawhi will be the player he is now from the day he was drafted.. You should apply as a Talent scout!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dejounte

Wasn't Manu already 25 as a rookie?

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Yeah he was already a pro in Italy and Euroleague

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Chinook

I'm not sure Samanic has a "much higher" upside. Seriously, Clarke would've been the second-best big on the Spurs the last few years. It's not that easy to get better players, and he can still improve quite a bit as he adapts mentally to the game and gains more strength. I don't want to really go through the whole debate again, but the idea that Clarke is for now and Sam is for later is not necessarily true at all. That goes double for this assumption that Clarke's advantage is going to be gone in just one season or that the team no longer needs a player in that mold to make them a playoff contender. You have folks trying to trade Murray-plus to give Jerami Grant $16 Million a year, and, do I have to say it? Fine. Clarke outplayed Grant by a huge margin.

Again I'm rooting for Sam, but it has to be a "wait and see" thing with him. He has a long way to go before he's ready to save any team.

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Who’s trying to Trade Murray to get Jerami Grant? That type of dude is always available in g leagues. He’s basically a younger JaMychal Green who we already had.

You could arguably develop #MeTu into that type of player btw


The knock on Luka isn’t really that he sucks. We all know he sucks rn and the argument for him is this amorphous “upside.” The knock on him is the spot he was drafted at. He’s late second round talent. No one would say shit if Keldon was drafted first and Luka was drafted second. Then he would just be some random Euro flyer. Which is what he is. A euro project who may turn into a serviceable player but also may be out of the league and back to euro ball in 2 years.

Omg shut up about luka he is gonna be a good player

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Originally Posted by Dhbsr555

Omg shut up about luka he is gonna be a good player

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Sure, for CSKA Moscow or the Shanghai Sharks

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Chinook

I'm not sure Samanic has a "much higher" upside. Seriously, Clarke would've been the second-best big on the Spurs the last few years. It's not that easy to get better players, and he can still improve quite a bit as he adapts mentally to the game and gains more strength. I don't want to really go through the whole debate again, but the idea that Clarke is for now and Sam is for later is not necessarily true at all. That goes double for this assumption that Clarke's advantage is going to be gone in just one season or that the team no longer needs a player in that mold to make them a playoff contender. You have folks trying to trade Murray-plus to give Jerami Grant $16 Million a year, and, do I have to say it? Fine. Clarke outplayed Grant by a huge margin.

Again I'm rooting for Sam, but it has to be a "wait and see" thing with him. He has a long way to go before he's ready to save any team.

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Sorry, should have clarified with Clarke. Not sure the Spurs would have even played him like the Grizzlies did. Thus the marginal upgrade this year. He’s the type of guy who probably is what he is. Spurs wanted more of a lottery ticket in Saminic.

What really screwed the Spurs over was Morris reneging and Carroll deciding he didn’t want to play here but still getting a full salary.