this front office has gotten wack.........first dennis lindsey is hired & then the worst gm of all time brian wright is hired & tanked the franchise
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this front office has gotten wack.........first dennis lindsey is hired & then the worst gm of all time brian wright is hired & tanked the franchise
we couldve had a dominate center........instead we r stuck with a sawft depressed compton crip
Let's wait and see how Keldon turns out before we cry about this one
Pop even picked some scrub over him for fiba last year iirc
‘Had a shot at’ doesn’t even mean that MIA and SAS even talked, just that would have been what was necessary to pry him loose. They ACTUALLY passed on Jaylen plus Jayson in February. Be upset about that, not some speculation.
Where did you hear they got offered both Tatum and Brown?Quote:
Originally Posted by exstatic
Pretty sure Tatum was never on the table. It was Jaylen Brown and a couple other non factor pieces.
Bam would not have been a game changer for this franchise. No trade for #2 was going to be fair. I’m just upset the spurs didn’t send him to the Hornets for Kemba. He would not have won a title with the hornets and would not have the media platform he has now because of it.
Damn, I'd never considered the Hornets as a trade scenario. Their picks would've been very valuable as well, seeing as they're a constant shitshow, and Kemba would have added a lot of character and true vet leadership to this team.Quote:
Originally Posted by daslicer
Still, butterfly effect and all that. We can't be sure that we would've gotten Keldon using the Hornets' pick, so until I see conclusive signs that he isn't the real deal, I'm happy with what we got, tbh.
i just wanna remind u guys that we couldve also had an MIP Ingram. Lots of bad moves after kawhis trade (included). Btw talking that this toronto trade was good bc we have keldon now is a shityy argument. We could have keldon with 19th pick but spurs picked luka. It shows that sours aint so good in drafting players
The Spurs have a track record of drafting better than other teams, they're not fortune tellers. There's a difference.Quote:
Originally Posted by spurspl
I heard that the Lakers refused to offer Ingram in any deal for Leonard.Quote:
Originally Posted by spurspl
Hornets wanted #2 badly. They had offered Kemba to the spurs but the spurs rejected them. Spurs could have gotten Kemba and some good role players along with draft picks from the hornets.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sugus
Pretty sure Boston never put both Tatum and Brown on the table.Quote:
Originally Posted by exstatic
It was rumored that they did, in February, before things got terrible and SA lost all leverage. Remember, this was before either of them had showed anything. Later that year in the playoffs, they broke out.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurik
Yeah FO are a bunch of screwups now days but Miami got lucky. Bam way better than thought at first.
Kawhi to Sacramento for the #2 to draft Doncic was the real failure.
rumor was neither was on the table.Quote:
Originally Posted by exstatic
Plus if this trade for Bam + scraps went down at the time, PATFO would have been lambasted as the worst FO in history. It's only this season that Bam is beginning to flourish. Spurs FO got what they wanted in a vet with proven scoring ability that Pop could mentor and get some more production out of. In spurts, DeMar has been a great fit here, as a scorer and distributor. And probably about the best the FO could get at the time the trade was made.
If they had tried in November or October when his thigh owie was showing signs of being seriously degenerative, they could have gotten much more, but this FO has been far from decisive with their players. Besides Bertans, who they ejected out of here ridiculously easily.
The only real solid deal I heard was LAC for their two pics and Tobias Harris. Two late Lottery pics and a soon to be FA. Even that wasn't a lot.
I've heard Tatum was never on the table.
While a lot was tossed out there- it was more speculation. Outside of the Clips no one was offering much because he was a soon to be FA, was "possibly" injured and said he wanted to go to LA.
That pick was never on the table. Sacremento wasn't willing to deal for #2 unless #2 agreed to sign an extension. #2 had made it clear around that time he was LA bound.Quote:
Originally Posted by DesignatedT
It wasn't Brown and Tatum...it was Brown, Smart, i think maybe another filler player, and any combinations of the pics the celtics had at the timeQuote:
Originally Posted by exstatic
Now the story goes that the spurs self sabotaged and said it would have to be brown and tatum and the celtics rightfully hung up the phone...
Jury's still out on the Kawhi trade... if the Spurs get anything of use out of a DeRozan trade and add it to Keldon Johnson and Poeltl, it could end up being a pretty good haul.
Still the most one-sided trade in the history of the NBA and always will be.Quote:
Originally Posted by R. DeMurre
I think that was what happened after the season (the self sabatoge). I don't know what the celtics or anybody else put on the table in February though because we (by we I mean pop) was convinced they could sign kawhi on a team friendly contract. I do think it's plausible that we could've gotten Tatum and brown at that point though. Brown wasn't nearly as coveted back then. He would have been the sweetener in a Tatum trade.Quote:
Originally Posted by poopbox
I don't think many here realize that Spo is probably the best coach in the league right now. I don't look at Bam, Robinson or Nunn and think "Wow if Pop had that talent, the Spurs would be rolling."
Doncic would have an amazing rookie year... in the g-leagueQuote:
Originally Posted by DesignatedT
haha sad but trueQuote:
Originally Posted by r0drig0lac
ingram was on the table, kuz was off as well as multiply picks which was the reason why this trade didnt happen.Quote:
Originally Posted by Russ
There is an article that you can find online that was a post-mortem on the trade after the season had started. Don't care to go looking through it again but things I remember are:Quote:
Originally Posted by mo7888
Philly asked about Kawhi and the Spurs said Simmons had to be in the deal. Philly walked away.
Spurs told the Lakers that if they wanted Kawhi they had to give up Kuzma, Ingram, Hart, and two unprotected lottery picks. Spurs supposedly DID NOT want Lonzo because they already had enough guards. If you remember around this time there was a rumor that the Lakers were looking to trade Lonzo to Orlando for whatever there pick was, because they were actually going to try and do that deal. That is when Lonzo out of nowhere had knee surgery and that was the end of that rumor.
Boston inquired about Kawhi and they were willing to trade brown, smart, whatever else to make salaries match, and any combination of 3 picks the celtics had, including that coveted memphis pick. Spurs countered saying they wanted brown AND tatum. Celtics walked away. Viewed as self sabotage because it was supposedly well known that the only player the celtics would have traded tatum for was Anthony Davis. Brown was on the table because the celtics did not really know if they really wanted to pay him max or near max money because they knew that is what he was going to ask for, which is exactly what happened.
Clippers were willing to give the spurs pretty much whatever they wanted in players and/or future draft picks for Kawhi. Spurs did not want any of their young players and the clippers did not have a path to get the unprotected lottery picks the spurs wanted.
The whole Derozan thing itself is to sad to type about. Raptors front office ran circles around the spurs.
If pop legit thought he could sign Kawhi to anything other than a supermax then he is even more out of touch than we originally thought. A guy who was upset he was paid last on his last max contract IS NOT going to sign for anything less than the most money he can.
If I remember correctly it was Brown+Smart, Tatum was never on the table.Quote:
Originally Posted by mo7888
:lol what is he supposed to be, another centerpiece?
“If there is a team feeling Leonard regret now, it is Boston. The Celtics had the coveted young players and draft picks to outbid Toronto. Boston larded up its offer with draft picks, but declined to include Jayson Tatum or Jaylen Brown without gaining more assurance than was possible about Leonard’s health and interest in re-signing, sources said at the time of the trade." -zach lowe
Abdul-Jabbar to the Lakers from the Bucks for Elmore Smith, Brian Winters, Dave Meyers and Junior Bridgeman. In addition to Abdul‐Jabbar, the Lakers also received Walt Wesley, a backup center.Quote:
Originally Posted by szkorhetz
Yes, and there was also a "LA or bust" signal that Kawhi and his reps shouted out to media. The dude drove his trade value way down, so I'm not sure why he still has supporters who are supposed Spurs fans to this day.Quote:
Originally Posted by rankingtear
Yes, that was after the season and after all the bad blood surfaced. I'm talking about several months before that.Quote:
Originally Posted by poopbox
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurik
Speaking as an expert in mythology, the Tatum+Brown story is right up there with the one about Aphrodite having a dick. It's not really even a myth - just a fantasy that a few people have. It's best that you don't spend too much time thinking about it.
truuuQuote:
Originally Posted by szkorhetz
that didn't happen cause Pop wanted Plumlee. He thought Plumlee was better and Bam :pop: "wasn't ready"
do you have a source for this? I never heard about that one.Quote:
Originally Posted by daslicer
Spurs FO is totally retarded. They should've traded nephew by midseason, instead they kept him, built a team around him for the upcoming season and then traded him. Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaand let's not forget they also gave up Danny Green and 5 million $. Beyond stupid.
If Boston offers Brown, Smart and picks I take that. At least there wouldn't be a hole at SF and you'd have another young talent on the same timeline as the other young guys. If they tried to match salaries the deal would've probably been Brown, Smart and Marcus Morris + picks. That was 21 million and would've matched nephew's 19 million.
Aldridge/Morris/Brown/Green/White
would've been a sickass line up. No defensive holes at all.
If the Hornets offer Kemba + picks you take that. Kemba and Aldridge would be a great guard/big combo. Plus Kemba was only on a 12 million dollar deal back then. That means the Hornets would have to include some more players like Jeremy Lamb for example.
Aldridge/Bertans/Green/White/Kemba
would've also been way better than what we got now.
I'll have to look for the source but I live in Charlote, NC so it was reported in the local media that Jordan had called up the Spurs and had inquired about getting #2 and told the Spurs that they could have Kemba but the Spurs said they were not interested. I just found a source now for this https://swarmandsting.com/2018/01/24...leonard-trade/Quote:
Originally Posted by RC_Drunkford
I agree with you 100 percent. I felt the Spurs should have traded him immediately once he started going MIA and refusing to talk to them. That should have been the first indication that #2 had gone rogue. Like you said the time to trade him was around early 2018 in Jan-Feb. Spurs were a bunch of idiots and gambled when the signs were all there early on that he didn't want to be in SA.Quote:
Originally Posted by RC_Drunkford
spurs could’ve had and done a lot of things had that senile POS not diarrhead all over the team’s future tbh
2020 offseason aka 2020 rehash season
Pop's insistence on wanting to compete sabotaged the Kawhi trade. They should have taken any package of youngsters+picks instead of the garbage we ended up with. Derozan isn't worth his contract and is incompatible with most NBA lineups due to him being a wing that can't shoot or play defense. Poetl is an archaic big that has no offensive game whatsoever. He's a decent defensive anchor and might have made sense in 2005 but you can't get away with playing 4 vs 5 on offense in the modern NBA. Bigs like him are common in free agency nowadays. It's likely neither will still be on the roster longterm. Just a terrible, terrible trade.
Even more depressing is that they followed it up the next offseason with the Bertans/Carroll/Morris fiasco. I mean the Knicks are considered one of the worst front offices in general and even they ripped us off. Stole Morris right out from under us, and even threw salt in the would by trading him to Scumbag's team while attaining a first round pick. That's embarrassing on all levels. Oh yeah, the guy we gave away Bertans for was so terrible we bought him out(on the hook for two more years) and now plays for a division rival. Spurs may be a great team when it comes to drafting(thank the scouting department) but we're historically awful when it comes to trades. Our last good trade was probably George Hill for Kawhi and that was almost ten years ago.
Can't be angry at the Spurs for what happened with Morris. That was a complete blindside by the Knicks which is something no front office would have been prepared for. What Morris and the Knicks did was something that never been done before in FA. Morris still looked for better deals even when he had agreed to sign the Spurs offer. The Knicks also decided to go after him even though he had agreed to sign with the Spurs. Teams and Players don't operate like that in FA. If anything it shows Morris and the Knicks are both rotten entities. It's frustrating Morris and the Knicks doing the Spurs dirty was another benefit for #2. It still gets me angry seeing how Morris could be a difference maker in the Clippers winning it all this year thanks to the Knicks dirty meddling.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurgan
To be honest, I disagree. It wasn't the insistence on staying competitive that doomed the Kawhi trade - it was the overvaluing of DeRozan as a player and piece that did them in. Other packages could've kept the Spurs competitive (Kemba was already a well-known star by the time the trade could've gone down for example, not so much for Brown and the C's package), but Pop was adamant in getting a true "star". Though to be honest, in hindsight, I think the biggest reason Toronto was chosen was that it was not in the Western Conference, and it also was seen as an extremely undesirable location to be traded to. I have no doubts in my mind that Pop's pettiness played a part there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurgan
So, the issue wasn't the desire to stay competitive, but a miscalculation of which package was the best shot at doing so.
I'm all for being petty but not being stupid petty like Pop was. If he wanted to be petty you send #2 to Charlotte to a place where he has no chance in hell of winning a title. Granted Charlotte is an upgrade over SA but #2 would still have been upset since he was not in LA and would have had to waste a year playing for a team that wasn't a contender. That was the best way to get back at him. Pop stupidly put #2 in a position to win a title and #2 capitalized off of it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sugus
I also heard that the Nets were gone get Pop. I guess those articles were true aswell.
Even if this was true, Bam wasn't even a household name. Dude busted out big times this year, not 2018. During that year what else did the heat have to offer? Kawhi was a risk, dude would most likey would have left, so but other peiece were invovled, if Bam was the center peice that is a much worst trade for us than the DD trade.
The only trade, that would be worth it would have been the Boston if it was true, and the clips.
Even with the trade we bad, the jury is still out.
What type of player will Keldon be? will he be an all-start or close to an all-start? of yeah, than trade levels itself out.
how about Poeltl? will he be re-signed and just will he develop further?
Lamo why in the world would Charlotte trade for Kawhi? They had abetter shot of keep Kemba than Kawhi. They weren't even a playoff team.
Actually find reliable sure, not some made up bs, that doesn't even make sense.
It's not made up bs simply because you don't like the source. Jordan wanted to get rid of Kemba for a while simply because he did not feel he was legit franchise player and was not willing to pay him the super max. It was a situation where if #2 walked it was still a win win for Jordan simply because he was never going to resign Kemba anyways. Also what does the hornets not being a playoff team have to do with them trying to trade with #2?Quote:
Originally Posted by B1gduff
Kemba has 1 year left, then an unrestricted free agent right. They have no valuable young pieces, maybe 11 (i still think spurs would draft Lonnie here) , likely a lottery protected 2019 pick. I think the only way Kemba stays if we 5 year max him, charlotte doesn't even want to max him. Don't know if that's better, green would probably be another overpay. Then you have no cap flexibility for the next 4 years with Kemba as your best player.
I imagine they're feeling pretty damn stupid for not doing so now. It's going to cost them a Championship because Nephew will kill the Lakers. Damn, didn't want to give up a MIP candidate for an eventual 2 time Finals MVP. Same with Celtics. If they don't reach the Finals this year, the mumbling is going to start re: Danny Ainge's tenure as GM.Quote:
Originally Posted by Russ
They got greedy and felt they could sign #2 in FA. They wanted to keep Ingram and add #2.Quote:
Originally Posted by tmtcsc
Man, it's been over two years now. Enough of the woulda shouldas, if you can't get over it, kill yourself. Right or wrong, time to move on.
Charlotte deal is unreal
Why give up Kemba plus high pick for one year useless #2 rental.
please look smtimes from 2nd team perspective.
As someone who lives in Charlotte I follow the Hornets pretty closely you have to look at it from Jordan's perspective. Jordan did not want to keep Kemba he had leaked it out a bunch of times to the local media starting from the summer of 2017.Jordan didn't believe Kemba was a legit superstar and worthy of max money since he hadn't any success of building a team around him. Hornets also missed the playoffs in 2017 and were destined to be a lottery team for the next few season. So in Jordan's eyes losing Kemba wasn't a big deal because they weren't winning with him anyways and had little to no success with him being the franchise player.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ignazzz
The allure of #2 for Jordan was that he would finally get the superstar he desired even if it was only for 1 season. Jordan is delusional and was willing to take the risk simply because of his brand and influence that he would believe he would have a chance to convince #2 to stay with the hornets.
Hornets probably would not have given up a lottery pick for #2 but they were willing to give up Kemba and a bunch of role players for him. I would have still taken that deal and just started the rebuild from that point.
Good point. I still believe there was more better options then Leonard scenario or even Kemba for Rozier and 2rd pick. Jordan is Jordan