Joe Biden Beats Barack Obama's Popular Vote Record

Joe Biden has broken president Barack Obama's popular vote record set 12 years ago. The Democratic challenger is at 69,512,303 votes (50.1 percent) to Donald Trump's 67,069,982 votes (48.3 percent), according to The Associated Press' election results tracking at the time of writing.

https://www.newsweek.com/joe-biden-b...n-2020-1544754

Interesting bit, but means fuckall with the electoral college.

interesting but means fuckall is an interesting reason to start a new thread on that

Yeah but how many of them were dead uncles residing in their local cemeteries? :lol

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Originally Posted by RandomGuy

Joe Biden has broken president Barack Obama's popular vote record set 12 years ago. The Democratic challenger is at 69,512,303 votes (50.1 percent) to Donald Trump's 67,069,982 votes (48.3 percent), according to The Associated Press' election results tracking at the time of writing.

https://www.newsweek.com/joe-biden-b...n-2020-1544754

Interesting bit, but means fuckall with the electoral college.

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and the fatally flawed electoral college cannot be abolished w/o a Constitutional amendment which the oligarchy won't let get out of Congress never mind obtain approval by 3/4 of the states.

Trump also got more votes then Clinton did this year

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Originally Posted by Dirks_Finale

Yeah but how many of them were dead uncles residing in their local cemeteries? :lol

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None of them.

You realize this doesn't really happen right?

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Originally Posted by spurraider21

interesting but means fuckall is an interesting reason to start a new thread on that

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RG thinks the "start new thread" is actually "New Daily Journal Entry".

Trump won

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Originally Posted by RandomGuy

None of them.

You realize this doesn't really happen right?

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Do you honestly believe the corpse of Joe Biden, who can't talk or generate any enthusiasm, got more votes than the Democratic messiah, Obama? :lol As Joe would say, C'mon man!

:lol this election was an epic fail for Democrats, don’t sugarcoat it with stupid numbers about the popular vote.

If not for COVID Trump wins in a landslide and the Republicans take the house back. The Democratic Party needs an enema.

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Originally Posted by Dirks_Finale

Do you honestly believe the corpse of Joe Biden, who can't talk or generate any enthusiasm, got more votes than the Democratic messiah, Obama? :lol As Joe would say, C'mon man!

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Yes.

I believe the "not-Trump" candidate got more votes than Obama.

Quit huffing fox "news"

Fox news is just as liberal as you are :lol

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Originally Posted by RandomGuy

Yes.

I believe the "not-Trump" candidate got more votes than Obama.

Quit huffing fox "news"

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Originally Posted by Will Hunting

:lol this election was an epic fail for Democrats, don’t sugarcoat it with stupid numbers about the popular vote.

If not for COVID Trump wins in a landslide and the Republicans take the house back. The Democratic Party needs an enema.

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Didn't they pump like 200 million into South Carolina thinking they would unseat Graham? :lol

I'm sure they thought Maine was in the bag, too.

Double digit loses. :lol

Polls :lol

I guarantee you Trump is proud of this

” look how I energized everyone“

“I created chaos, distrust, I lie, I cheat... I’m popular”

The man has some serious character flaws.

But there is no denying he generated tons of enthusiasm unlike any Republican over the past few decades.

The liberal consensus was that Trump was a racist and an illegitmate candidate who somehow eclipsed a ceiling of 62 million votes and that in this cycle, he would be blasted by a blowout margin. Not only did Trump get 68 million votes this time around, he has become a champion for people of color places like Florida. He won't be in the White House next year thanks to his shitty Covid response and funny mail in ballots, but he has essentially shattered the liberal stereotype of him and became somewhat of a Martyr for the Republican party. I can only hope the next Republican candidate adopts some of his ideology, especially on foreign policy.

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Originally Posted by pgardn

I guarantee you Trump is proud of this

” look how I energized everyone“

“I created chaos, distrust, I lie, I cheat... I’m popular”

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Originally Posted by Dirks_Finale

Didn't they pump like 200 million into South Carolina thinking they would unseat Graham? :lol

I'm sure they thought Maine was in the bag, too.

Double digit loses. :lol

Polls :lol

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I knew the McConnell race was a waste of money and I was complaining about it the whole time. South Carolina I thought might be in play but I thought the money being dumped into that race was beyond stupid.

It wasn't just those races where they wasted money. IIRC the guy who ran against Matt Gaetz raised on obscene amount of money for a congressional district race he had no chance of winning. Republicans wasted money in the same way (:lol AOC's opponent raising $10 million) but it wasn't as extreme as the McConnell/Graham race. This whole phenomenon of running against someone your party hates and raising a fuckload of money off of it despite being in district/state you have no chance at winning is retarded.

The Democratic Party has an image problem. Even though I supported Bernie in the primary I don't think the election would have been a whole lot better with him at the top of the ticket. IMO these races fell apart because the Republican incumbent campaigned around the message of "A vote for X is a vote for Chuck Schumer" and it worked in a big way. The Democrats need to start running more unconventional candidates like Katie Porter (who's basically turned a solid red district blue) but it's never going to happen.

Still I'm holding out hope for Yang 2024 :lol

Regarding the polls - The big difference this year is that the congressional district polls were just as if not more off than the public polls were. In 2016 the public polls were wrong but the congressional district polls were pretty spot on and showed Hillary Clinton warning signs with working class voters that she ignored. Regardless, we need to do something to restrict public polls. I'm not sure how but if there are ways to restrict news networks from releasing exit polls until after the polls close, I imagine there's a way to restrict public polls.

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Originally Posted by Dirks_Finale

Fox news is just as liberal as you are :lol

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https://media.giphy.com/media/hhnpSxCjyXzHy/giphy.gif

nope.

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Originally Posted by Dirks_Finale

Didn't they pump like 200 million into South Carolina thinking they would unseat Graham? :lol

I'm sure they thought Maine was in the bag, too.

Double digit loses. :lol

Polls :lol

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polling is a useful tool. i dont think if people actually believe they're a substitute for voting :lol... but they give candidates a good idea of where they might be competitive, how to allocate resources, etc.

and if you go state by state for the presidential election, right now florida is the only state that has broken against the aggregate polling data (though north carolina would be the second if thats called for trump)

Look at Maine. Susan Collins was not ahead in even one poll all year long. She was supposed to not only lose, but get blown out... and she won by near double digits :lol I could not believe my eyes when i saw it, TBH. And I already knew the polls were fairly inaccurate, but holy sh1t that was unbelievable.

I do agree it is useful in that the internals show you where you are lacking. Trump knew he was hurting with white suburban women and for the most part, that was spot on from the polling data. He also knew the american people, in general, were not happy with his Covid response since like, June, yet continued with his ridiculous waffling on masks and encouraging less testing. Pretty much sealed his fate and he is his own worst enemy.

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Originally Posted by spurraider21

polling is a useful tool. i dont think if people actually believe they're a substitute for voting :lol... but they give candidates a good idea of where they might be competitive, how to allocate resources, etc.

and if you go state by state for the presidential election, right now florida is the only state that has broken against the aggregate polling data (though north carolina would be the second if thats called for trump)

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Originally Posted by Dirks_Finale

Look at Maine. Susan Collins was not ahead in even one poll all year long. She was supposed to not only lose, but get blown out... and she won by near double digits :lol I could not believe my eyes when i saw it, TBH. And I already knew the polls were fairly inaccurate, but holy sh1t that was unbelievable.

I do agree it is useful in that the internals show you where you are lacking. Trump knew he was hurting with white suburban women and for the most part, that was spot on from the polling data. He also knew the american people, in general, were not happy with his Covid response since like, June, yet continued with his ridiculous waffling on masks and encouraging less testing. Pretty much sealed his fate and he is his own worst enemy.

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i understand this is you, so it probably is too complicated, but...

the party of trump people showed up on Election Day. There were some that were turned off by what an odious piece of shit of a human being he is, and maybe didn’t vote for him.

but they voted r straight down the ballot.

You all are still completely in support of the ideals of today’s party of trump, but somehow think that not voting for him makes you any less of a trumper. Trumperism of today’s r party.

If it were somewhere other than South Carolina, Graham's "use my words agaisnt me" quote would have done just that and he gets unseated.

I could see Yang making some headway as he is pretty likable/sensible and is an effective communicator. I could also see you guys taking a page out of the Trump-Republican playbook with a celebrity candidate with a populus message. Maybe Mark Cuban, maybe someone else with enough appeal to a general audience.

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Originally Posted by Will Hunting

I knew the McConnell race was a waste of money and I was complaining about it the whole time. South Carolina I thought might be in play but I thought the money being dumped into that race was beyond stupid.

It wasn't just those races where they wasted money. IIRC the guy who ran against Matt Gaetz raised on obscene amount of money for a congressional district race he had no chance of winning. Republicans wasted money in the same way (:lol AOC's opponent raising $10 million) but it wasn't as extreme as the McConnell/Graham race. This whole phenomenon of running against someone your party hates and raising a fuckload of money off of it despite being in district/state you have no chance at winning is retarded.

The Democratic Party has an image problem. Even though I supported Bernie in the primary I don't think the election would have been a whole lot better with him at the top of the ticket. IMO these races fell apart because the Republican incumbent campaigned around the message of "A vote for X is a vote for Chuck Schumer" and it worked in a big way. The Democrats need to start running more unconventional candidates like Katie Porter (who's basically turned a solid red district blue) but it's never going to happen.

Still I'm holding out hope for Yang 2024 :lol

Regarding the polls - The big difference this year is that the congressional district polls were just as if not more off than the public polls were. In 2016 the public polls were wrong but the congressional district polls were pretty spot on and showed Hillary Clinton warning signs with working class voters that she ignored. Regardless, we need to do something to restrict public polls. I'm not sure how but if there are ways to restrict news networks from releasing exit polls until after the polls close, I imagine there's a way to restrict public polls.

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I think you are a miserable human being who just found my ignore list.

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Originally Posted by Bogie

i understand this is you, so it probably is too complicated, but...

the party of trump people showed up on Election Day. There were some that were turned off by what an odious piece of shit of a human being he is, and maybe didn’t vote for him.

but they voted r straight down the ballot.

You all are still completely in support of the ideals of today’s party of trump, but somehow think that not voting for him makes you any less of a trumper. Trumperism of today’s r party.

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Originally Posted by Dirks_Finale

If it were somewhere other than South Carolina, Graham's "use my words agaisnt me" quote would have done just that and he gets unseated.

I could see Yang making some headway as he is pretty likable/sensible and is an effective communicator. I could also see you guys taking a page out of the Trump-Republican playbook with a celebrity candidate with a populus message. Maybe Mark Cuban, maybe someone else with enough appeal to a general audience.

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Yang practically is a celebrity candidate at this point, I think he basically is the liberal version of the Trump-Republican playbook.

Either way, this election shows what the Democrats are doing isn't working or reaching enough voters. They need a very unconventional candidate in 2024, and I can't think of one better than Yang.

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Originally Posted by Dirks_Finale

Look at Maine. Susan Collins was not ahead in even one poll all year long. She was supposed to not only lose, but get blown out... and she won by near double digits :lol I could not believe my eyes when i saw it, TBH. And I already knew the polls were fairly inaccurate, but holy sh1t that was unbelievable.

I do agree it is useful in that the internals show you where you are lacking. Trump knew he was hurting with white suburban women and for the most part, that was spot on from the polling data. He also knew the american people, in general, were not happy with his Covid response since like, June, yet continued with his ridiculous waffling on masks and encouraging less testing. Pretty much sealed his fate and he is his own worst enemy.

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if polls were supposed to track elections 100% then we would just skip the elections.

the hyper-accuracy of polls is obviously a desired/ideal outcome but its an unrealistic expectation imo

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Originally Posted by Dirks_Finale

I think you are a miserable human being who just found my ignore list.

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you embraced your love of trump. You are proud of it.

many were turned off by his constant drama and lying. But they still absolutely hold dear the tenants of trumpism that is today’s Republican Party.

there can be no question that trump is the face used as the driving force behind what that party believes in. Just because some people tired of him, doesn’t mean they aren’t lockstep with the dogma

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Originally Posted by Will Hunting

Yang practically is a celebrity candidate at this point, I think he basically is the liberal version of the Trump-Republican playbook.

Either way, this election shows what the Democrats are doing isn't working or reaching enough voters. They need a very unconventional candidate in 2024, and I can't think of one better than Yang.

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Yang is probably still going to be ahead of his time, even 4 years from now.

there always has to be a first, and he is it. I agree the idea of ubi and healthcare for all will ultimately have to be adopted if America wants to stop the devolution into modern feudalism.

but the ideas are going to have mountains to overcome, not sure if 4 years is enough time.

IMO where the polls are clearly getting it wrong is with 1) rural voters and 2) "undecided" voters. People who say they're undecided voters are lying 95% of the time. The pollsters need to get creative in figuring out how to weigh this - imo one way to do that is prod with more general questions (i.e., if an undecided voter says he's better off now than he was 4 years ago and thinks the Hunter Biden laptop story is a major issue, probably just assume he's voting Republican up and down the ballot).

Voter turnout completed related to the polarizing response by voters to Trump. Biden obviously not more popular than Barack. But it’s extremely rare not to have an opinion of Trump. You either love him or hate him. And that led all these people to vote, for or against him. I voted for Biden only to vote against Trump. Has nothing to do with policy or political issues. I hate the fact that this country has been led by this piece of shit the last four years. I need him to be gone.

Regardless of any good things Trump did, and even his harshest critics can acknowledge there were some good policy things, they’ve all been completely eclipsed by how much of an egomaniacal, megalomaniacal, racist, sexist, overall bigoted jackass he’s been who not only fucked up this covid response but set the stage up for an all out racial civil war with his stupid fucking call to arms tweets and comments stoking the flames of that racial divide. He’s made it ok to be unapologetically and even openly racist. He fucking destroyed simple common decency in this country. And the fact that he still got as many votes as he did is an absolutely scary thing to realize.

"his harshest critics can acknowledge there were some good policy things"

:lol let's see you list of things

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Originally Posted by boutons_deux

"his harshest critics can acknowledge there were some good policy things"

:lol let's see you list of things

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Look I’m anti-Trump. And I realize Trump haters don’t want to credit him with anything. And anything he did that could be viewed as even remotely good can be spun in a way to either not give him credit at all or as a self-serving thing that also turned out good. So whatever I list I’m sure will be challenged. And I’m not saying there’s a lot.

But just a few, his criminal justice reform, initiating Space Force, lowering unemployment, pressuring NATO allies to cough up their share of money, and getting Abu Baker al-Baghdadi.

You can spin those things if you want. That’s fine. I’m not in business to defend Trump. So go ahead. And again, all the bad things about Trump overshadows anything good anyway.

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Originally Posted by Will Hunting

:lol this election was an epic fail for Democrats, don’t sugarcoat it with stupid numbers about the popular vote.

If not for COVID Trump wins in a landslide and the Republicans take the house back. The Democratic Party needs an enema.

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Yep, heck, I could see Perez might be spared now if Biden rings, which would be a colossal mistake.

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Originally Posted by ElNono

Yep, heck, I could see Perez might be spared now if Biden rings, which would be a colossal mistake.

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The problem isn’t just Perez but he’d be a great start. Democratic leaders don’t understand how state and local elections are won. Raising money and running TV ads is one element but if you want to flip a senate seat in Iowa or North Carolina you need a candidate visiting the rural counties and doing voter townhalls.

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Originally Posted by Will Hunting

The problem isn’t just Perez but he’d be a great start. Democratic leaders don’t understand how state and local elections are won. Raising money and running TV ads is one element but if you want to flip a senate seat in Iowa or North Carolina you need a candidate visiting the rural counties and doing voter townhalls.

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Agreed, but Perez' head is the signal that this is serious, and it starts at the top.

Looks like Trump is going to beat Obama's popular vote count too :lol

voter fraud at its finest... lol joe had a bigger base than obama at his height? lmao yall are so damn gullible.

No surprises here, you let Americans vote comfortably, and they do vote.

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Originally Posted by ElNono

No surprises here, you let Americans vote comfortably, and they do vote.

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Possibly but I’m more convinced this is Trump driving turnout from those who love him and those who hate him.

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Originally Posted by JamStone

Voter turnout completed related to the polarizing response by voters to Trump. Biden obviously not more popular than Barack. But it’s extremely rare not to have an opinion of Trump. You either love him or hate him. And that led all these people to vote, for or against him. I voted for Biden only to vote against Trump. Has nothing to do with policy or political issues. I hate the fact that this country has been led by this piece of shit the last four years. I need him to be gone.

Regardless of any good things Trump did, and even his harshest critics can acknowledge there were some good policy things, they’ve all been completely eclipsed by how much of an egomaniacal, megalomaniacal, racist, sexist, overall bigoted jackass he’s been who not only fucked up this covid response but set the stage up for an all out racial civil war with his stupid fucking call to arms tweets and comments stoking the flames of that racial divide. He’s made it ok to be unapologetically and even openly racist. He fucking destroyed simple common decency in this country. And the fact that he still got as many votes as he did is an absolutely scary thing to realize.

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Harshest critic here:

Good trump policy things:
China tariffs.
Space Force.

We need to do something to contain China.

The number of votes he got speaks to the effectiveness of right wing propaganda. Fear is easy and hard to shake.

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Originally Posted by SnakeBoy

Looks like Trump is going to beat Obama's popular vote count too :lol

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Indeed.

May be about the only thing he has ever done more/better than Obama. Ironic.

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Originally Posted by Will Hunting

Possibly but I’m more convinced this is Trump driving turnout from those who love him and those who hate him.

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No doubt. But there's also a lot less excuses to fuck voters over when you have a pandemic going on.

The problem with the polls is that you cannot predict what people will do given free choice. If you could, we wouldn't need an election.

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Originally Posted by RandomGuy

Harshest critic here:

Good trump policy things:
China tariffs.
Space Force.

We need to do something to contain China.

The number of votes he got speaks to the effectiveness of right wing propaganda. Fear is easy and hard to shake.

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So left wing talking points aren't propaganda. Those are just facts. The right though, that's all propaganda and half the voters are stupid.

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Originally Posted by DMC

The problem with the polls is that you cannot predict what people will do given free choice. If you could, we wouldn't need an election.

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I no longer trust polling, period. But I think the Trafalgar group's critique of modern day polling is pretty accurate. This is not 1995. No more, or very little landline calls. And you have to keep it short and sweet. The only people talking to you for 20-30 minutes about politics are the extremists from either side, which does not give you the pulse of the common Joe. And if there's a polarizing guy like Trump on the ballot, you have to somehow assure them of anonymity, thanks to cancel culture.

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Originally Posted by Dirks_Finale

I no longer trust polling, period.

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You and me both man. whiffing two elections in a row.. .somethings wrong, and I doubt anyone can fix it.

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Originally Posted by koriwhat

voter fraud at its finest... lol joe had a bigger base than obama at his height? lmao yall are so damn gullible.

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Well the population has grown and more eligible and registered voters are on the rolls. Plus a lot of people vote against Trump and not necessarily for Biden.

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Originally Posted by DMC

The problem with the polls is that you cannot predict what people will do given free choice. If you could, we wouldn't need an election.

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I still want somebody, anybody to point out how polls were incorrect this year, at least on the presidential race? Maybe NC being the outlier?

Polls don't exist to replace the vote. They exist to try to get a sense of where races are going.

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Originally Posted by Dirks_Finale

I no longer trust polling, period. But I think the Trafalgar group's critique of modern day polling is pretty accurate. This is not 1995. No more, or very little landline calls. And you have to keep it short and sweet. The only people talking to you for 20-30 minutes about politics are the extremists from either side, which does not give you the pulse of the common Joe. And if there's a polarizing guy like Trump on the ballot, you have to somehow assure them of anonymity, thanks to cancel culture.

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Trafalgar group was extremely wrong in their polls this and last time around. As a matter of fact, their junk polls appear to be directly aimed at undermining good polling.

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Originally Posted by ElNono

I still want somebody, anybody to point out how polls were incorrect this year, at least on the presidential race? Maybe NC being the outlier?

Polls don't exist to replace the vote. They exist to try to get a sense of where races are going.

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The congressional district polls were laughably off. They showed the Democrats running competitively in like 10 Texas house races and the went 0-10 with most of them not even close.

One dynamic I don’t think people or pollsters considered - Trump brought out low propensity GOP voters who didn’t turn out in 2018, while having Trump on the ballot allowed never Trump Republicans to take their anger out on Trump but still vote Republican down ballot. It was the worst of both worlds for down ballot Dem candidates.

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Originally Posted by Will Hunting

The congressional district polls were laughably off. They showed the Democrats running competitively in like 10 Texas house races and the went 0-10 with most of them not even close.

One dynamic I don’t think people or pollsters considered - Trump brought out low propensity GOP voters who didn’t turn out in 2018, while having Trump on the ballot allowed never Trump Republicans to take their anger out on Trump but still vote Republican down ballot. It was the worst of both worlds for down ballot Dem candidates.

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That's fair, I think Spurminator brought it up before, and like I told him, I didn't particularly track those polls, so I'll take your word for it.

However, so far at least, the POTUS race has been called fairly spot on? I posted what the A/A+ polls map looked like before the count started, I don't see any egregious errors or mistakes?

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Originally Posted by ElNono

That's fair, I think Spurminator brought it up before, and like I told him, I didn't particularly track those polls, so I'll take your word for it.

However, so far at least, the POTUS race has been called fairly spot on? I posted what the A/A+ polls map looked like before the count started, I don't see any egregious errors or mistakes?

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I think florida was an error. Wisconsin also might have accurately predicted the winner but the polls were still way off. They had Biden up 8-9% and he won by <1%.

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Originally Posted by DMC

So left wing talking points aren't propaganda. Those are just facts. The right though, that's all propaganda and half the voters are stupid.

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Left wing talking points are, by definition, also propaganda.

Strawman fail.

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Originally Posted by Will Hunting

The congressional district polls were laughably off. They showed the Democrats running competitively in like 10 Texas house races and the went 0-10 with most of them not even close.

One dynamic I don’t think people or pollsters considered - Trump brought out low propensity GOP voters who didn’t turn out in 2018, while having Trump on the ballot allowed never Trump Republicans to take their anger out on Trump but still vote Republican down ballot. It was the worst of both worlds for down ballot Dem candidates.

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Republicans went blockwalking door to door. Dems didn't. That is the difference.

Dems abdicated the ground game due to the pandemic.

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Originally Posted by Will Hunting

I think florida was an error. Wisconsin also might have accurately predicted the winner but the polls were still way off. They had Biden up 8-9% and he won by <1%.

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Florida I marked Trump because it was within the MoE. I'll take your WI complaint. I have my own about NC (despite it was 0.5 outside the MoE).

If people have expectations that polls are going to accurately predict states within the MoE, then they don't understand polls.

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Originally Posted by RandomGuy

Republicans went blockwalking door to door. Dems didn't. That is the difference.

Dems abdicated the ground game due to the pandemic.

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Yes. The Dems like Rashida Tlaib and Omar who didn’t stop going door to door brought record turnout in their area.

Obama wrote the book on grassroots campaigning and the Dems really need to start following it.

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Originally Posted by JamStone

Voter turnout completed related to the polarizing response by voters to Trump. Biden obviously not more popular than Barack. But it’s extremely rare not to have an opinion of Trump. You either love him or hate him. And that led all these people to vote, for or against him. I voted for Biden only to vote against Trump. Has nothing to do with policy or political issues. I hate the fact that this country has been led by this piece of shit the last four years. I need him to be gone.

Regardless of any good things Trump did, and even his harshest critics can acknowledge there were some good policy things, they’ve all been completely eclipsed by how much of an egomaniacal, megalomaniacal, racist, sexist, overall bigoted jackass he’s been who not only fucked up this covid response but set the stage up for an all out racial civil war with his stupid fucking call to arms tweets and comments stoking the flames of that racial divide. He’s made it ok to be unapologetically and even openly racist. He fucking destroyed simple common decency in this country. And the fact that he still got as many votes as he did is an absolutely scary thing to realize.

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I agree with everything you said. As a former democrat I'm pretty much done voting after this election. I was never down with the republicans but the democrats have also left me. I only voted in this election because I live in a swing state and also because like you said I got sick and tired of the racial division Trump was causing in this country. It forced me to get out and vote for Biden whereas if the republicans ran their typical generic boring candidate then I would have stayed at home.

I'm one of the few people that are not shocked by how many votes Trump got. I guess that has to do with growing up in NC which up until 12 years ago was a hardcore red state. It's the same state that elected a hardcore openly racist senator in Jesse Helms a bunch of times up until he decided to retire in the early '00s. So I grew up with a lot of backwards people and saw a lot of ignorance in person. I think the ignorance of this country is always a culture shock for anybody who has lived most of their lives in a blue state or even a purple state.

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Originally Posted by daslicer

I agree with everything you said. As a former democrat I'm pretty much done voting after this election. I was never down with the republicans but the democrats have also left me. I only voted in this election because I live in a swing state and also because like you said I got sick and tired of the racial division Trump was causing in this country. It forced me to get out and vote for Biden whereas if the republicans ran their typical generic boring candidate then I would have stayed at home.

I'm one of the few people that are not shocked by how many votes Trump got. I guess that has to do with growing up in NC which up until 12 years ago was a hardcore red state. It's the same state that elected a hardcore openly racist senator in Jesse Helms a bunch of times up until he decided to retire in the early '00s. So I grew up with a lot of backwards people and saw a lot of ignorance in person. I think the ignorance of this country is always a culture shock for anybody who has lived most of their lives in a blue state or even a purple state.

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Or overseas. Amen.

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Originally Posted by Will Hunting

The problem isn’t just Perez but he’d be a great start. Democratic leaders don’t understand how state and local elections are won. Raising money and running TV ads is one element but if you want to flip a senate seat in Iowa or North Carolina you need a candidate visiting the rural counties and doing voter townhalls.

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I felt that is what really hurt Cunningham down here in NC outside of his texting adultery scandal. Cunnigham was absent and had no rallies and it ended up costing him a close race.

even trump is gonna surpass Obama's old record... huge turnout this year. love it. generally speaking the more turnout, the better.

This is probably a rare election in the sense that despite record turnout, both sides will have a bad taste in the mouth when it's done. The Dems squeaked a narrow win and will have to contend with McConnell. Trump lost, but it's close enough that the GOP won't be able to get rid of Trumpism in a hurry.

The biggest loser is American democracy, with both sides unhappy with the process for drastically different reasons. This is looking like a shit sandwich no matter who you are

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Originally Posted by Warlord23

This is probably a rare election in the sense that despite record turnout, both sides will have a bad taste in the mouth when it's done. The Dems squeaked a narrow win and will have to contend with McConnell. Trump lost, but it's close enough that the GOP won't be able to get rid of Trumpism in a hurry.

The biggest loser is American democracy, with both sides unhappy with the process for drastically different reasons. This is looking like a shit sandwich no matter who you are

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This country needs a uniter right now, I don't think Joe is that guy, but we'll see.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ElNono

This country needs a uniter right now, I don't think Joe is that guy, but we'll see.

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With the state of the economy, virus cases and deaths on the rise, racial division, Trump undermining the electoral process, it's going to be a shitty 2021 for Biden. This isn't like Obama in 2008 ... the economy was in the dumps then but there was a lot of positivity.

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Originally Posted by Warlord23

With the state of the economy, virus cases and deaths on the rise, racial division, Trump undermining the electoral process, it's going to be a shitty 2021 for Biden. This isn't like Obama in 2008 ... the economy was in the dumps then but there was a lot of positivity.

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I can't think the last Dem president that didn't inherit a shitshow, tbh

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Originally Posted by ElNono

I can't think the last Dem president that didn't inherit a shitshow, tbh

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The last Dem president to inherit a great situation I would say is Truman and that goes all the way back to the 40’s.

64k votes with 77k left to count in Philly. Outside of court fuckery Biden is definitely winning Pennsylvania.

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Originally Posted by ElNono

Trafalgar group was extremely wrong in their polls this and last time around. As a matter of fact, their junk polls appear to be directly aimed at undermining good polling.

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They were much closer in the swing states than all the fairy tale polls out there. Consistently had Trump up a point or two or down a point or two. In WI I think they had him down 1 in their final poll and that's pretty much how it turned out.

.

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Originally Posted by Dirks_Finale

They were much closer in the swing states than all the fairy tale polls out there. Consistently had Trump up a point or two or down a point or two. In WI I think they had him down 1 in their final poll and that's pretty much how it turned out.

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Here's their projected map of the 2020 election based on their polls:

What do you think?

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Originally Posted by ElNono

Here's their projected map of the 2020 election based on their polls:

What do you think?

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It's not like Biden has large margin victories here. :lol

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Originally Posted by Dirks_Finale

It's not like Biden has large margin victories here. :lol

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:lol under that premise we should just don't have polls at all.

Everybody knows which states are not swing states, if we're going to pretend whiffing on almost every contested race is ok because muh margins, then what's the point?

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Originally Posted by Dirks_Finale

It's not like Biden has large margin victories here. :lol

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Bargaining comes after anger and denial, you seem to moving quickly through Kubler-Ross's stages of grief. :tu

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Originally Posted by ElNono

:lol under that premise we should just don't have polls at all.

Everybody knows which states are not swing states, if we're going to pretend whiffing on almost every contested race is ok because muh margins, then what's the point?

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Cant even believe you are arguing this :lol

RCP AVERAGE had Biden +6.7. It went to Biden less than a point. Trafalgar had Biden +1 in a very recent poll. Around the same time, an ABC poll had Biden +17 in WI :lol yeah, coming close to the actual number counts for something, elnono.

2016 they called it for Trump when nobody else did.

Overall I do not trust any of them after this, but it's clear to me that he other pollsters were deliberately flooding us with junk polls as a form of voter suppression.

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Originally Posted by Winehole23

Bargaining comes after anger and denial, you seem to moving quickly through Kubler-Ross's stages of grief. :tu

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WTF are you even talking about? The polls were all wack. One of them was more accurate numbers wise than the others.

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Originally Posted by Dirks_Finale

WTF are you even talking about? The polls were all wack. One of them was more accurate numbers wise than the others.

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crossed wire, my bad. i edited my comment to reflect the reason. :lol

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dirks_Finale

Cant even believe you are arguing this :lol

RCP AVERAGE had Biden +6.7. It went to Biden less than a point. Trafalgar had Biden +1 in a very recent poll. Around the same time, an ABC poll had Biden +17 in WI :lol yeah, coming close to the actual number counts for something, elnono.

2016 they called it for Trump when nobody else did.

Overall I do not trust any of them after this, but it's clear to me that he other pollsters were deliberately flooding us with junk polls as a form of voter suppression.

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:lol RCP Average is trash, and it's been called out by any decent poll aggregator for adding absolutely trash polls like Trafelgegger

https://twitter.com/NateSilver538/st...885414415?s=20

https://twitter.com/Nate_Cohn/status...249713152?s=20

That is indeed the problem with polls these days, there's plenty of absolutely crap polls that need to be adjusted accordingly or dropped entirely.

Again, if you're into polling, then you know these things.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dirks_Finale

Cant even believe you are arguing this :lol

RCP AVERAGE had Biden +6.7. It went to Biden less than a point. Trafalgar had Biden +1 in a very recent poll. Around the same time, an ABC poll had Biden +17 in WI :lol yeah, coming close to the actual number counts for something, elnono.

2016 they called it for Trump when nobody else did.

Overall I do not trust any of them after this, but it's clear to me that he other pollsters were deliberately flooding us with junk polls as a form of voter suppression.

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Look at sheer number of people who voted for Trump.
Suppression my ass.
The clear problem with polling is a whole other issue.

I am fine with Biden winning. Sleepy Joe is gonna be a kinder, gentler Trump light. Nothing substantial will change. He will cancel China tariffs so my Chinese tech stocks will triple at least. Thanks Joe.

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Originally Posted by CosmicCowboy

I am fine with Biden winning. Sleepy Joe is gonna be a kinder, gentler Trump light. Nothing substantial will change. He will cancel China tariffs so my Chinese tech stocks will triple at least. Thanks Joe.

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Cheaper iPhones and Walmart t-shirts, tbh... what really matters in 'Murica...

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Originally Posted by ElNono

Cheaper iPhones and Walmart t-shirts, tbh... what really matters in 'Murica...

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Accepting what is, is the first step .

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Originally Posted by CosmicCowboy

I am fine with Biden winning. Sleepy Joe is gonna be a kinder, gentler Trump light.

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Did you eat a lot of paint chips as a kid?

Some or all of the content shared in this thread is disputed and might be misleading about an election or other civic process.

^^^^^

Alright, who broke the brokeback derp?

Come on, confess!

Confess, or I will post more of his tantrums.

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Originally Posted by Spurtacular

Some or all of the content shared in this thread is disputed and might be misleading about an election or other civic process.

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CENSORSHIP!

Donald Trump beats it as well..

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Originally Posted by daslicer

I agree with everything you said. As a former democrat I'm pretty much done voting after this election. I was never down with the republicans but the democrats have also left me. I only voted in this election because I live in a swing state and also because like you said I got sick and tired of the racial division Trump was causing in this country. It forced me to get out and vote for Biden whereas if the republicans ran their typical generic boring candidate then I would have stayed at home.

I'm one of the few people that are not shocked by how many votes Trump got. I guess that has to do with growing up in NC which up until 12 years ago was a hardcore red state. It's the same state that elected a hardcore openly racist senator in Jesse Helms a bunch of times up until he decided to retire in the early '00s. So I grew up with a lot of backwards people and saw a lot of ignorance in person. I think the ignorance of this country is always a culture shock for anybody who has lived most of their lives in a blue state or even a purple state.

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Thanks for the input. I appreciate it. One of the things that the presidential election does do is gets the occasional post here from one of the non-regulars. This place has become something of a ghost town, so any new viewpoints are kinda awesome in my book.

If I may:

What would bring you back to vote for Democrats? (not trying to start an argument, just get some honest feedback to inform my own view of reality)

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Originally Posted by Spurtacular

Some or all of the content shared in this thread is disputed and might be misleading about an election or other civic process.

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I approve of this post.

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Originally Posted by RandomGuy

Thanks for the input. I appreciate it. One of the things that the presidential election does do is gets the occasional post here from one of the non-regulars. This place has become something of a ghost town, so any new viewpoints are kinda awesome in my book.

If I may:

What would bring you back to vote for Democrats? (not trying to start an argument, just get some honest feedback to inform my own view of reality)

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They have to pass or actually make the effort to pass major progressive reforms whether it's universal health care, UBI, green energy, affordable housing, raising minimum wage, progressive tax code, student loan forgiveness/affordable college. I'm not really old yet still in my late 30's but I'm tired of having to compromise vote for republican lite which I refer as the democrats. When people like me speak up on any of the issues I mentioned the democratic party just tells us to shut up and keep our mouth's shut and that at least they are not as bad as the republicans.

When you don't tackle the issues I mentioned and are very similar on economic issues you can't say you are that much better than republicans. When it comes to taxes they are pretty much on the same level. Biden want's to raise the corporate tax rate after Trump lowered it which sounds great at first but when you examine it is only a slight increase of 2-3 percent and is still the second lowest corporate tax rate in American history after the Trump corporate tax rate. Republicans bitch and moan about this and make it sound like it's extremely progressive when it's not. You have some hardcore conservatives in here who are not shitting in their pants because they know Biden is not going to really change anything when it comes to taxes so they are fine with him. That should tell you a lot how the democratic party has changed when conservatives are not too upset about a democratic winning knowing their economic polices are only slightly different than republican policies.

I'm also tired of the democrats shoving social issues in my face all the time and telling me not to care about any other issues. I'm not saying racial issues,lgbt,gender should be tossed in the garbage but their passion about these issues seem to feign fake outrage. Every time I bring up the economic issues I mentioned earlier they bring up these social issues to use as a deflection not to focus on the economic issues. "Sure we haven't done universal health care, UBI, but we got LBGT,BLM." They will scream this point until they are blue in the face. To me it's just deflection for them not doing their job. That crap is not going to win me over it's a sign of being lazy and not actually caring about what's really important. It really shows they are nothing but a bunch of corporate whores desperately pretending to look like they are good people when they are not. It's also an insult to my intelligence.

I'm also tired of the cancel culture bs. The democrats play a huge role in this PC police bs. Most of the things they get outraged about are not worth getting outraged about it. It's just dumb and childish.

The only thing where the democrats are truly different than the republicans are that they believe in science and climate change.

Sadly even with this win with Biden I feel the democrats are going to go more to the right because they could not win more senate seats and lost congress seats. So now they feel they have to be more conservative. If you are going to go that route then whats the point of being a democrat. You are basically a republican in better packaging. With that being said I will never vote for the republican party because they don't represent anything I value. I will just chose to not vote at all period.

I want the gubmint to give me money, call it whatever, but I deserve more.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ElNono

:lol RCP Average is trash, and it's been called out by any decent poll aggregator for adding absolutely trash polls like Trafelgegger

https://twitter.com/NateSilver538/st...885414415?s=20

https://twitter.com/Nate_Cohn/status...249713152?s=20

That is indeed the problem with polls these days, there's plenty of absolutely crap polls that need to be adjusted accordingly or dropped entirely.

Again, if you're into polling, then you know these things.

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Cohn's gripe with RCP was that it was too Trump-friendly though :lol

what poll/aggregator did you use for your "poll map" in the other thread?

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Originally Posted by spurraider21

Cohn's gripe with RCP was that it was too Trump-friendly though :lol

what poll/aggregator did you use for your "poll map" in the other thread?

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538, A/A+ polls only,anything within the MoE going to Trump

Quote:

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Originally Posted by daslicer

They have to pass or actually make the effort to pass major progressive reforms whether it's universal health care, UBI, green energy, affordable housing, raising minimum wage, progressive tax code, student loan forgiveness/affordable college. I'm not really old yet still in my late 30's but I'm tired of having to compromise vote for republican lite which I refer as the democrats. When people like me speak up on any of the issues I mentioned the democratic party just tells us to shut up and keep our mouth's shut and that at least they are not as bad as the republicans.

When you don't tackle the issues I mentioned and are very similar on economic issues you can't say you are that much better than republicans. When it comes to taxes they are pretty much on the same level. Biden want's to raise the corporate tax rate after Trump lowered it which sounds great at first but when you examine it is only a slight increase of 2-3 percent and is still the second lowest corporate tax rate in American history after the Trump corporate tax rate. Republicans bitch and moan about this and make it sound like it's extremely progressive when it's not. You have some hardcore conservatives in here who are not shitting in their pants because they know Biden is not going to really change anything when it comes to taxes so they are fine with him. That should tell you a lot how the democratic party has changed when conservatives are not too upset about a democratic winning knowing their economic polices are only slightly different than republican policies.

I'm also tired of the democrats shoving social issues in my face all the time and telling me not to care about any other issues. I'm not saying racial issues,lgbt,gender should be tossed in the garbage but their passion about these issues seem to feign fake outrage. Every time I bring up the economic issues I mentioned earlier they bring up these social issues to use as a deflection not to focus on the economic issues. "Sure we haven't done universal health care, UBI, but we got LBGT,BLM." They will scream this point until they are blue in the face. To me it's just deflection for them not doing their job. That crap is not going to win me over it's a sign of being lazy and not actually caring about what's really important. It really shows they are nothing but a bunch of corporate whores desperately pretending to look like they are good people when they are not. It's also an insult to my intelligence.

I'm also tired of the cancel culture bs. The democrats play a huge role in this PC police bs. Most of the things they get outraged about are not worth getting outraged about it. It's just dumb and childish.

The only thing where the democrats are truly different than the republicans are that they believe in science and climate change.

Sadly even with this win with Biden I feel the democrats are going to go more to the right because they could not win more senate seats and lost congress seats. So now they feel they have to be more conservative. If you are going to go that route then whats the point of being a democrat. You are basically a republican in better packaging. With that being said I will never vote for the republican party because they don't represent anything I value. I will just chose to not vote at all period.

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First off: Thank you for taking the time on this. That was thoughtful and looks like you put some effort into it. Both things are sadly rare here. Again, I appreciate it.

I must say, I pretty much agree with this. Maybe not 100%, but yeah, I get it.

You are not the first person that has said something similar. I will keep in mind when I get with other Democrats. This is roughly what I advocate for internally. Not always easy. Hard part is getting past the big bad socialist label that gets slapped on everything that benefits regular people over the oligarchs that fund everything.

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Originally Posted by RandomGuy

First off: Thank you for taking the time on this. That was thoughtful and looks like you put some effort into it. Both things are sadly rare here. Again, I appreciate it.

I must say, I pretty much agree with this. Maybe not 100%, but yeah, I get it.

You are not the first person that has said something similar. I will keep in mind when I get with other Democrats. This is roughly what I advocate for internally. Not always easy. Hard part is getting past the big bad socialist label that gets slapped on everything that benefits regular people over the oligarchs that fund everything.

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A few things the democrats need to realize is:
1. Everything they do will be called socialist. Obama is the best example with ACA being called socialist. No way was it socialist considering the GOP came up with the plan during the 90's. So they shouldn't be trying to push through right wing policies hoping that they can win over republicans because it's not going to work. They are just going to scream socialism. The democrats that lost locally in my state NC ran centrist campaigns and still got their ass whooped. Democrats have to make a decision do they want go down fighting with their progressive ideals or want to go down being a fake republican. I do get it though it's very hard to combat the socialist label but the democrats can't run from it they have to find some way to fight it.

2. They have to accept not everybody who voted for Trump wasn't because of his racist rhetoric. They are a lot of people that voted for him out sheer desperation because they are hurting economically. Trump lied but he gave these people hope when he promised he would get them jobs, and good health care.

3. I say this as a college educated person but stop looking down on people who are not college educated. I have looked this up the other day but according to Wiki only about 27 percent of people have 4 year degrees in the US. Democrats like to put down struggling working class people by having their own form of social Darwinism by screaming "Well you deserved this because you didn't go to college. You should learn how to code." That's a big fuck you to these people and it's very snobby and condescending. I can see how these people can harbor strong hatred for democrats. I'm a firm believer a good majority of people are just not college material. We can't just punish these people for not being academically literate. This part is hard but we have to find a way to replace all the factory jobs that have left this country with a new industry to employ these people. That could be green energy are something else.

4. Trump was able to expand his minority base. This should really disturb the democrats long term. The republicans never will win the majority of the minority vote but if they can just make small gains of around 7-10 percent they can then win the national election with ease. Just screaming you hate racism is not going to easily win over these communities anymore. You have to be willing to find out what are the key issues they care about it actually have a plan to deal with these issues . Granted they are some communities like the Cubans, Venezuelans who are just right wing lunatics that are not worth dealing but they are others that you can easily expand your base with.

5. Covid helped Biden. You may disagree but I believe Trump would have won had Covid didn't happen. If he even handled it better and made an effort to stop it I think he would have won. This should also really disturb the democrats because the republicans can run another con man type of figure like Trump in the future that is actually intelligent

President Trump officially more popular than Barack Obama

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Originally Posted by RandomGuy

over the oligarchs that fund everything.

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They just funded your candidate

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Originally Posted by SnakeBoy

They just funded your candidate

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Eyup.

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Originally Posted by daslicer

A few things the democrats need to realize is:
1. Everything they do will be called socialist. Obama is the best example with ACA being called socialist. No way was it socialist considering the GOP came up with the plan during the 90's. So they shouldn't be trying to push through right wing policies hoping that they can win over republicans because it's not going to work. They are just going to scream socialism. The democrats that lost locally in my state NC ran centrist campaigns and still got their ass whooped. Democrats have to make a decision do they want go down fighting with their progressive ideals or want to go down being a fake republican. I do get it though it's very hard to combat the socialist label but the democrats can't run from it they have to find some way to fight it.

2. They have to accept not everybody who voted for Trump wasn't because of his racist rhetoric. They are a lot of people that voted for him out sheer desperation because they are hurting economically. Trump lied but he gave these people hope when he promised he would get them jobs, and good health care.

3. I say this as a college educated person but stop looking down on people who are not college educated. I have looked this up the other day but according to Wiki only about 27 percent of people have 4 year degrees in the US. Democrats like to put down struggling working class people by having their own form of social Darwinism by screaming "Well you deserved this because you didn't go to college. You should learn how to code." That's a big fuck you to these people and it's very snobby and condescending. I can see how these people can harbor strong hatred for democrats. I'm a firm believer a good majority of people are just not college material. We can't just punish these people for not being academically literate. This part is hard but we have to find a way to replace all the factory jobs that have left this country with a new industry to employ these people. That could be green energy are something else.

4. Trump was able to expand his minority base. This should really disturb the democrats long term. The republicans never will win the majority of the minority vote but if they can just make small gains of around 7-10 percent they can then win the national election with ease. Just screaming you hate racism is not going to easily win over these communities anymore. You have to be willing to find out what are the key issues they care about it actually have a plan to deal with these issues . Granted they are some communities like the Cubans, Venezuelans who are just right wing lunatics that are not worth dealing but they are others that you can easily expand your base with.

5. Covid helped Biden. You may disagree but I believe Trump would have won had Covid didn't happen. If he even handled it better and made an effort to stop it I think he would have won. This should also really disturb the democrats because the republicans can run another con man type of figure like Trump in the future that is actually intelligent

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Again, I pretty much agree on all points, especially #1.

The Republican party is so empty of actual ideas other than "cut taxes for the rich", that it should be like shooting fish in a barrel.