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I'm an engineer too. To get to this point, it's extremely safe for everyone. To pass a project it gets seen by 30-40 PEs. For something of this magnitude is higher standards. I also stay in my discipline. You should too. :lolQuote:
Originally Posted by hater
Thanks for your input.Quote:
Originally Posted by Titan
Ill still wait for the data and the peer analysis of it :tu
Unless the tracking chip is put in there for the cemetary industrial complexQuote:
Originally Posted by ElNono
An engineer can speculate what they are afraid might go wrong. Can you speculate what you're afraid might happen to you if you get the vaccine?Quote:
Originally Posted by hater
Even then, the better deal is the microchip making you a zombie after you die, so they can charge you for burying you twice, tbh.Quote:
Originally Posted by SnakeBoy
Sure:Quote:
Originally Posted by SnakeBoy
- vaccine doesnt work as expected
- can cause short term harm to humans
- can cause long term harm to humans
- immunity length might be short
- allergic reactions
- dangers of improperly applied vaccines
Etc etc
There is a reason why UK requires resuscitators on hand when it is applied and why EU put the brakes on approval until they see US/UK data
lehappymerchant.jpg
People get seizures from giving blood. That doesn't mean we cancel giving blood. Stuff like this is normal. Only peddlers say otherwise. :lol
lehappymerchant.jpgQuote:
Even then, the better deal is the microchip making you a zombie after you die, so they can charge you for burying you twice, tbh.
Word. The EU is substantially more conservative when it comes to drugs/chemicals/food...etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by hater
https://www.beautybyearth.com/over-1...but-not-in-us/
Going conservative on mass vaccinations is not only the right thing to do but the non idiotic.Quote:
Originally Posted by SpursforSix
Another example why:
So not only this company hid their issues from regulators, they discovered a huge fuckup by mere chance, they wrongly applied half dose to some volunteers. Thats how they d8scovered their dosages were all fucked up.
Had they not discovered this by chance all you lemmings would be in line to receive it as we speak :lmao
Now they asked Sputnik V manufacturer to bail them out :lmao
Although the U.S. Centers for Disease Control hails water fluoridation as one of the “top ten public health achievements of the twentieth century,” most of the western world, including the vast majority of western Europe, does not fluoridate its water supply.Quote:
Originally Posted by hater
At present, 97% of the western European population drinks non-fluoridated water. This includes: Austria, Belgium, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Iceland, Italy, Luxembourg, Netherlands, Northern Ireland, Norway, Portugal, Scotland, Sweden, Switzerland, and approximately 90% of both the United Kingdom and Spain. Wikipedia confirms that these countries don’t fluoridate: Croatia, Estonia, Hungary, Iceland, and Latvia. Although some of these countries fluoridate their salt, the majority do not. (The only western European countries that allow salt fluoridation are Austria, France, Germany, Spain, and Switzerland.)
Despite foregoing “one of the top ten public health achievements of the twentieth century,” tooth decay rates have declined in Europe as precipitously over the past 50 years as they have in the United States. This raises serious questions about the CDC’s assertion that the decline of tooth decay in the United States since the 1950s is largely attributable to the advent of water fluoridation.
:lmao I dont agree w this but its funny
:lmao :lol
Not going forward quickly with vaccines means staying locked down into 2022. By then everyone will be infected naturally since lockdowns are unsustainable.Quote:
Originally Posted by hater
You do know that you aren't going to be protected from infection just because other people get vaccinated right. Vaccinated people are probably still going to get and spread SARS-CoV-2, they'll just be less likely to develop Covid-19. That's why Fauci is saying we'll have to keep wearing masks and distancing even after vaccination.
Listen I don't actually care if you get vaccinated or not, you'll probably be fine when you get infected like most people. I just wanted to see if I could get a specific fear you had of the vaccine instead of the vague stuff anti vaxxers always say.
Lol I already listed specifics of what could go wrong. Its ok 8f you want to ignore them. But dont accuse me of not being specific :lolQuote:
Originally Posted by SnakeBoy
I have no problem with 6 more months of lockdowns if it means better vaccines. Anyway we are going to get 6 more months of lockdown regardless because of the vaccine manufacturing/distribution issues.
Btw we dont have lockdown in the US. Never had. So yes I agree by this time next year at least half of us will have been infected.
This vaccine bullshit is mostly hype. Its too little too late.
Might as well really work on something efficient and safe that will probably work as a flu shot. I already had called since February that the vaccine hype is just that, hype
:lol what do you think a flu shot is?Quote:
Originally Posted by hater
A recurring vaccine. Not one time like usually.Quote:
Originally Posted by Splits
IMO eventually thats how this will work. The weak, old will take it. I will when I reach certain age. Thats it. And thats all.
It is developed twice a year. The flu shot you get one year is not the same you get the next year. By your logic, nobody should ever take the flu shot because the long-term side effects are unknown.Quote:
Originally Posted by hater
They dont start every yearly flu shot from scratch.Quote:
Originally Posted by Splits
Its a tried and proven process.
I dont personally take flu shots but if I fall ill or old, I would strongly consider.
:lol Sorry I took it the wrong way I guess. I'm a bit on edge from withdrawals due to the lack of trigger da libs material available. Keep waiting for my team to come up with something good but so far the best they got is Swalwell fucked a china gal...it's ridiculous.Quote:
Originally Posted by pgardn
WTF are you talking about? If a President Clinton rushed Michael Moore into a Supreme Court seat a couple of weeks before the election I'd still be relentlessly shoving it in your face man.Quote:
Originally Posted by SnakeBoy
That was a great move but turns out she's not the Kraken so we are disappointed.Quote:
Originally Posted by baseline bum
I think there will be plenty of opportunity to shove that in your face during the Biden admin but for now it's a drought
DeAnna Lorraine Will Not Take the COVID-19 Vaccine
Even ‘If Jesus Takes It’ :lol
https://www.rightwingwatch.org/post/deanna-lorraine-will-not-take-the-covid-19-vaccine-even-if-jesus-takes-it
Hook me up.
You aren't in line yet?Quote:
Originally Posted by Titan
Everyone's in line.Quote:
Originally Posted by DarrinS
Start camping out. Its first come first serve, as you already know.Quote:
Originally Posted by Titan
LoloolooloollQuote:
Originally Posted by RandomGuy
WrongdomGuy needs a vax. Lolooooooollloolkolllllll
No one here would have guessed.
Beahahahahahahahahahahahahha
Maskbro
foldren is in line
here's a dashboard showing vaccine allocations
https://public.tableau.com/profile/b...ard/Dashboard1
found tholdren on Facebook :lmao
https://i.ibb.co/4Y8Nszx/1-A4-F199-C...93-DEAE136.jpg
No one under 65 needs a vaccine.Quote:
Originally Posted by mono
Poll from Miami public hospitals. Only 49.4% said they would take the vaccine
.......
Wonder why....
Because they are low IQ like you.Quote:
Originally Posted by tholdren
How many COVID wards have you worked in without a mask?
Oh, now ChumpDumper calling over half hospital workers low iqQuote:
Originally Posted by tholdren
Llloooooooooklloooolll
ChumpDumper wants you to listen to the "experts" but only the scared experts
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChumpDumper
Over 50% respond they would not take the vaccine. And they work in hospitals.Quote:
Originally Posted by tholdren
Wowowowoowowowowoksososo
Foldren hiding in basement, folding.Quote:
Originally Posted by tholdren
Oh, now ChumpDumper calling over half hospital workers low iqQuote:
Originally Posted by ChumpDumper
Llloooooooooklloooolll
ChumpDumper wants you to listen to the "experts" but only the scared experts
Over 50% respond they would not take the vaccine. And they work in hospitals.
Wowowowoowowowowoksososo
Low iq foldren.Quote:
Originally Posted by tholdren
You lie and have no link.Quote:
Originally Posted by tholdren
How many days have you volunteered in a COVID ward without a mask?
14.9%, said they were not interested in a COVID-19 vaccine at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by tholdren
https://www.miamiherald.com/news/cor...247726355.html
Why do you lie every single time?
Not a lie. Less than 50pct said they would take. Don't be saltyQuote:
Originally Posted by ChumpDumper
Why do you lie?Quote:
Originally Posted by tholdren
14.9%, said they were not interested in a COVID-19 vaccine at all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChumpDumper
Quote:
Originally Posted by tholdren
Foldren melting down like derp he is.
Yep, he cries when I expose his lies.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ef-man
Only 49pctQuote:
Originally Posted by tholdren
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChumpDumper
100% foldren fold meltdown.Quote:
Originally Posted by tholdren
Only 49pct will take.... wonder why.....????
Because foldren is low iq and is meltdown posting.Quote:
Originally Posted by tholdren
:lol
But but butQuote:
Originally Posted by tholdren
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ef-man
Chumpdump needs a vax to feel safe but his statistical risk of dying from covid is less than dying from the flu. His risk from dying in traffic is many factors higher, but he's still driving.
Maskbro
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ef-man
Hate to see him wear a mask while drivingQuote:
Originally Posted by tholdren
Because you are too low IQ to actually read and understand a simple newspaper story.Quote:
Originally Posted by tholdren
Why can't you understand?
Good news. :tuQuote:
Originally Posted by Winehole23
hater: I owe you an apology for mocking your caution, it might well be warranted, my flippancy wasn't. My bad.Quote:
Originally Posted by hater
This is an anonymous essay by an internal medicine doc who claims to sit on an IRB, so, cum grano salis, but he (and his Journal Club) point out a few red flags in the NEJM article on the Pfizer vaccine:
-- no exclusion criteria in the original paper
-- no published correction as yet mentioning the severe allergy reactions the were publicized post-publication.
-- study participant's report of a grade 4 (life-threatening or disabling) event was not included in the study or immediately reported to an Institutional Review Board and the original investigators, as required.
-- the editor of the NEJM (and not say, a virologist or coronavirus expert, or a government human health officer) wrote the editorial accompanying the study AND sat on the FDA review board that approved the vaccine. That's two possible conflicts of interest, one as editor of a magazine that Pfizer gives money to, and one as an FDA review board member.
-- only two age cohorts, 16-55 and 55+
Quote:
Why is this kind of obfuscation a real problem for my ability to trust the vaccine? Well, the intro papers to many pharmaceuticals that have gone down the drain in recent years have used this very same device. It is their way of hiding the fact that they did not put many older patients in the trial, certainly not representative of the population, and certainly not representative of who is seemingly going to get this vaccine in the first round. Do I know that 90% of the >55 group is actually between 55-58? I don’t. How hard would it be for them to do a breakdown in decades? 16-25 26-35 36-45 46-55 56-65 66-75 76-85? We have lots of computers in this country and the population breakdown is done this way on studies I read all the time. Why not do provide this information on a study that is this critically important, particularly one where elderly patients will be near the head of the line?
-- side effects appear to be strong, but the study declines to parse the data.Quote:
Headaches, fatigue, chills, muscle pain and joint pain appear to be very common, way more common than other vaccines I am used to, as in an order of magnitude higher. It is very clear from this table that about half the patients, especially the younger ones, are going to feel bad after this vaccine. That is extraordinary.
Quote:
We are told nothing about how long these symptoms last or the amount of time at work lost. The “minimal side effects comparable with other viral vaccines” in the editorial and press releases is just not consistent at all with my experience of 30 years as a primary care physician. There was universal agreement with this assessment among my MD colleagues. They had great concern about this as a matter of fact: great concern that it will cause bad publicity and decrease administration and great concern that given this already high side effect profile, it may be much worse when it gets out to the public.
-- the number of asymptomatic patients in the study was not published, only symptomatic cases were included.
Quote:
This to me leads to the most important question of all, and it was again completely untouched….. How many asymptomatic patients are there? And how many who were vaccinated are still able to spread the virus? Not even an attempt to answer that question. This is critical, and is one of the ways a vaccine can backfire. If a vaccine does not provide sterilizing immunity, ie stop transmission, it is of limited use for disease control. It is great for the individual, but if they can remain without symptoms and still spread it all around it does not help from a public health standpoint.
-- weird inconsistencies in the reported study sizeQuote:
https://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2020...red-flags.htmlQuote:
If you read the paper, you might well have wondered about that 18,860 number and even checked Table 1 to make sure it’s accurate (it is), since the third paragraph of the Abstract, under the headline “Results,” has very different figures:
A total of 43,548 participants underwent randomization, of whom 43,448 received injections: 21,720 with BNT162b2 and 21,728 with placebo.So how did the researchers get from 21,720 injected with the vaccine to the 18,860 in the “Main Safety Population”? This sort of thing confirms the impression that this is a very incomplete or sloppy study. It is really not clear where the difference between the 37,706 and the 43,548, or for that matter, the 36,520 total subjects in the Tables 2 and 3 (Efficacy) come from. I used the 37,706 and hence the 18,860 that went with it from Table because it gave slightly smaller numbers than using the Table 2 and 3 figures, but they would be close to each other.
My concern here is the 6000ish discrepancy between the figures in the main text compared to the tables. Were they excluded? If so, why?
Here's the guy's disclaimer:
Quote:
Right off the bat – I am as weary and concerned about this pandemic as anyone. What my little rural area has been through in the past three weeks or so has been nothing short of harrowing. This virus has the ability to render patients about as sick as I have ever seen in my life, while leaving more than half the population with minimal if any symptoms. The patients who are sick are often very sick. And instead of slow and steady improvement like we normally experience, most of these patients are assigned to a long and hard slog. Multiple complications arise. This leads to very diminished throughput in the hospital. The patients literally stack up and we have nowhere to put the new ones coming in who themselves will be there for days or weeks. On top of that are the constant donning and doffing of PPE and intense emotional experiences for the staff, who are themselves becoming patients or in this small town have grandma or Aunt Gertrude as a patient.
To put it bluntly, I want this pandemic over. And now. But I do not want an equal or even worse problem added onto the tragedy. And that is my greatest fear right now. And medical history has demonstrated conclusively over and over again: brash, poorly-thought-out, emotion-laden decisions regarding interventions in a time of crisis can exponentially increase the scale of pain and lead to even worse disasters.
I am not an anti-vaxxer. I have given tens of thousands of safe and tested vaccines over my lifetime. I am very familiar with side effects and safety problems associated with all of them. That is why I can administer them with confidence. I am also an optimist, so all of the cautions I discuss below are the result of experience and the information made public about the Pfizer vaccine, not a temperamental predisposition to see the glass as half empty.
Thanks sirQuote:
Originally Posted by Winehole23
Its blatantly obvious they are ommiting lots of data from these vaccine "trials" to expedite a "half baked" vaccine in hopes that it somehow helps put a dent in the pandemic.
Even if they are doing it with good intentions, (to avoid economic cataclysm) they are playing with fire.
Nobody knows how much damage a botched vaccine could do. Remember this vaccines are beijg pushed to entire population on the planet. Thats never been done.
The sensible thing is to wait for the data and let UK and American lemmings be guinea pigs and see what happens in about 9 months.
Called it :tu
Good article nig:
In the UK on day 1 of the rollout, two nurses with severe allergies experienced anaphylaxis, a life-threatening reaction to this vaccine. Only after world-wide coverage did Pfizer admit that there was an exclusion criterion for severe allergies in their study.
Ummm, Pfizer, since we are now getting ready to give this to possibly millions of people in the next few weeks – ARE THERE ANY OTHER EXCLUSION CRITERIA? Should I, as a physician, specifically not be giving this to patients with conditions that you have excluded?
Furthermore, NEJM, since you published this trial, have you bothered to at least put a correction on this trial on your website that it should NOT be given to people with severe allergies? I certainly see nothing like this.
In her story, she details her recruitment and her experience in the Pfizer COVID trial, the same one we are dissecting here. She describes in detail her experience with the vaccine and the fact that she is concerned that many patients are likely going to feel very sick after the injection. She wrote up her own reactions, and included a very troubling one. About 15 hours after her second injection, she developed a fever of 104.9. She explained that she called her reaction to the Research Nurse promptly the next morning. The recounted the response of the Research Nurse to her information as “A lot of people have reactions after the second injection. Keep monitoring your symptoms and call us if anything changes.”
Thankfully, it appears this nurse has completely recovered. From the best I can tell, this encounter occurred in late August and early September, putting it well within the trial’s recruitment of arms as detailed in the paper.
This JAMA article impinges directly on Figure 2 on page 7 of the paper, a graphic that that lays out all the major side effects during in the trial.
It is very important to note that based on the trial’s own data, conveniently laid out on the very top of the figure in green, blue, orange and red, a temperature of 104.9F or 40.5 C is described as a Grade 4 event. The definition of a Grade 4 event is anything that is life-threatening or disabling. A fever of 104.9 can have grave consequences for any adult and is absolutely a Grade 4 event.
By law, a grade 4 event must immediately be reported to the FDA, and to the Institutional Review Board (the entity charged with overseeing the safety of the subjects) and to the original investigators. THERE IS NO EXCEPTION. One would think that would also be reported in the research paper to at least alert clinicians to be on the lookout.
I could not find any mention of this event in the text of the paper. NOT ONE. Let’s take a closer look at Figure 2 on page 7 where adverse events are reported in a table form. Please note: this is a very busy image, and in the browser version, with very low resolution graphics that are profoundly difficult to read (they are a bit clearer if you download the PDF). This is a time-tested pharmaceutical company tactic to obscure findings that they do not want you to see. My mentor warned me about ruses like these years ago, and finding one raises the possibility that deception is in play.
• Pfizer would not release the source data because of proprietary corporate concerns and no self-respecting expert would review without it
• Pfizer knew there are problems and did not want anyone with expertise to find out and publicize them
• The editors could not find a real expert willing to put their name on a discussion
• Drs. Rubin and Longo are on some kind of journey to Vanity Fair and wanted their names on an “article for the ages”
• This is a rush job, and no one had time to do anything properly, and so we just threw it all together in a flash
they are going to be using the first million patients or so in the general public to get a real gauge on numbers and side effects.
:lmao guinea pigs
:lmao no wonder the EU is waiting :lol
Can u imagine the same country that xreated the vaccine, Germany decided to wait until a few million angloidiots take it first :lmao
As mentioned in the article, thousands of people were harmed by a faulty polio vaccine that was rushed. A few historical examples can be found here:Quote:
Originally Posted by hater
https://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/co...s-history.html
The bolded is a real cause for concern. Giving the vaccine to millions to see how bad the reactions and side effects are is more than worrisome, it's unethical and counterproductive from a public heath standpoint: any vaccine with undisclosed safety issues and understated side effects would tend to undermine confidence in safer/more effective when they do arrive.
Public subsidies, private profits, and intelliectual property rights get prioitized over human health, voluntary mechanisms fall far short of need and poor countries go to the back of the line.
There's a legit dystopian angle to COVID-19 cures that rhymes with actually-existing capitalism.
https://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2020...ne-access.html
Is there a doctor in the house? A statistician or scientist?
@Rummpd?
The overview of adverse events starts on page 32, table 14.
I have no idea how to contextalize this data, maybe someone else on this board can weigh in. The law of large numbers would seem to indicate the Pfizer vaccine is not only going to make a lot of people feel bad, a lot will have adverse events bad enough to cause them to miss work.
https://www.fda.gov/media/144416/download
'
Remember these vaccines need a team of paramedics ready at premises where they are being administered.Quote:
Originally Posted by Winehole23
I would say these vaccines have potential to do more damage tha. Make ppl feel sick imo
Thanks, I was hoping a specialist might weigh in. Hard for the likes of you or me to put these numbers in context.Quote:
Originally Posted by hater
There are no experts in a warp speed rushed vaccine that will "try" to be administered to an entire population.Quote:
Originally Posted by Winehole23
We are all just winging it. What do you call it. AGILE methodology :lol
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winehole23
This sums it up best. Heck, even if you are an expert, you can not account for everything. Not only is this a rushed vaccine, but it is the first mRNA vaccine (if I am not mistaken). It is employing the host cells to produce the antigen that will be recognized. They say the mRNA will not enter the nucleus, but how certain can you be? Four to seven years of this vaccine will begin to reveal whether or not it is safe, imho.
I know it is splitting hairs but the fever, chills, etc. is not caused by the virus. It is caused by the body ramping up it's immune system to fight the virus.
This post tells me that your biochemistry is gotd awful. Specifically you seem to be very ignorant of the difference between DNA and RNA and how RNA actually operates.Quote:
Originally Posted by BSfromTX
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019...ss%20standardsQuote:
Originally Posted by BSfromTX