I'm somewhat concerned with Dejounte Murray (video)

https://youtu.be/wbiBb8Xe7cc

The problem is we have some guys who just aren’t natural scorers playing together, Dejounte Murray being the main one. Lonnie Walker looks to be really improving. But in an ideal world you need to have Murray next to 4 shooters at all times and DeRozan presents a problem there. I’d consider moving on from Murray before DeRozan, just my opinion. I really like Murray and I hope he figures it out, he just isn’t showing much. The purpose of this isn’t to trash Murray though, I think most if not all Spurs fans like and are rooting for the guy. And I don’t think we have to rush anything, he deserves a chance he’s only been healthy for one season following that major injury, but at some point we’ve got to think about moving on if he doesn’t show more right?

Spurs should trade DJM before other teams realize he isn't going to get much better. He still has the exact same weaknesses he had 4 years ago. He still can't dribble, still can't shoot, still can't score at the rim, and still can't actually run an offense. His decision making is terrible. His BBIQ is very low. If any young player gets traded it should be him imho

Hes a scrub

Agree dump him

Backup PG is his ceiling. Trade him while his value is at it's peak, tbh.

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Originally Posted by Leetonidas

Spurs should trade DJM before other teams realize he isn't going to get much better. He still has the exact same weaknesses he had 4 years ago. He still can't dribble, still can't shoot, still can't score at the rim, and still can't actually run an offense. His decision making is terrible. His BBIQ is very low. If any young player gets traded it should be him imho

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Originally Posted by TimDunkem

Backup PG is his ceiling. Trade him while his value is at it's peak, tbh.

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I agree with this sentiment. He could prove us all wrong, but if I had to bet on it I don't think his value will ever be any higher than it is right now...

Too late. Can't see any team being dumb enough to give up anything of value for a 24 year old, torn ACL'd, unskilled, low basketball IQ player at an oversaturated position, who has a $64M extension kicking in.

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Originally Posted by TD 21

Too late. Can't see any team being dumb enough to give up anything of value for a 24 year old, torn ACL'd, unskilled, low basketball IQ player at an oversaturated position, who has a $64M extension kicking in.

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You can get plenty of teams to bite if you package him with DDR or LMA

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Originally Posted by TD 21

Too late. Can't see any team being dumb enough to give up anything of value for a 24 year old, torn ACL'd, unskilled, low basketball IQ player at an oversaturated position, who has a $64M extension kicking in.

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He still has a fairly high reputation in the league. Even during the bubble, he'd get most of the attention from national media over White and Johnson. Even espn has him basically ranked the same as DeRozan.

I don't think the spurs have it in them to move on from DJM, however.

Does he really have much trade value? I'd still rather see if he can recover from that ACL tear this year into becoming the player he looked like he was developing into right before the tear. And if he sucks oh well, more help for the tank this year. Win-win to keep him in the starting lineup and playing heavy minutes IMO.

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Originally Posted by Prime BEEF

You can get plenty of teams to bite if you package him with DDR or LMA

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Nah, because they don't have much value either and then you're talking in excess of $40M annually for an underwhelming combination.

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Originally Posted by itzsoweezee

He still has a fairly high reputation in the league. Even during the bubble, he'd get most of the attention from national media over White and Johnson. Even espn has him basically ranked the same as DeRozan.

I don't think the spurs have it in them to move on from DJM, however.

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That's from the clueless national media, who checked out on this team once Scumbag forced his way out.

Dunn was cut loose by the Bulls, who have a hole at PG and signed with the Hawks for 2/$9.77M to play a fringe rotation role.

Carter-Williams just got a steady deal for the first time in years for 2/$6.6M to play a back end rotation role on the Magic.

Ntilikina is slated to enter the season out of rotation for the Knicks, who have Payton and Smith Jr. ahead of him.

People acting like a 24 year old, 6'5 two player has no trade value.

Just last month people were talking about putting him In a trade package for Atlanta's 7th pick.

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Originally Posted by TD 21

Too late. Can't see any team being dumb enough to give up anything of value for a 24 year old, torn ACL'd, unskilled, low basketball IQ player at an oversaturated position, who has a $64M extension kicking in.

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Ouch!

If he could only shoot a higher percentage on a higher volume from 3 and if he could only not make bonehead plays from the ball handler position

Spurs have to showcase him if they are hoping to include him in a possible trade. He was NBA All defensive 2nd team, and could very well be a very good 3 and D, IF he could consistently knock those 3’s. Bowen had no handles but made a career strictly as 3 and D. DJ is simply not a PG for everything that’s already mentioned, lack of handles, bad decision making, etc. The problem is Vassell and Keldon seem a better fit. Can Spurs play DJ from the bench paying 16m annually? Possible Manu role if he buys it. For me the solid starter would be White, Vassell, Keldon, Demar, Aldridge depending on the matchup. DJ is just not a starting PG. He could run with Mills, Lonnie, Gay, Poeltl, emphasis on run.

Your not paying him all that money so he can sit just like DEROZZ and LMA are going to get major minutes cause you paying them millions to play not sit on the bench. As far as Murray if the Spurs still want to make him a PG well then they killing his career, but that will definitely help us in tanking this year.

I do think he can fit in the second unit but just not primary ball handler and that group has to be a run and gun unit.

Doesn't Smart come off the bench on his contract?

Can we hire Rod Strickland to teach him to dribble? I mean it's ridiculous at this point. Has the dude ever done any dribbling drills in his life?

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Originally Posted by Leetonidas

Spurs should trade DJM before other teams realize he isn't going to get much better. He still has the exact same weaknesses he had 4 years ago. He still can't dribble, still can't shoot, still can't score at the rim, and still can't actually run an offense. His decision making is terrible. His BBIQ is very low. If any young player gets traded it should be him imho

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Same weaknesses is correct. And trade him before teams won't trade for him. Compared to our other guards he is surplus

He certainly has value in the league, I just don't know if he plays well in the Spurs system. Something more freewheeling and open would work for him, although I'm not sure he couldn't work here. I would quietly gauge his value.

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Originally Posted by John B

Spurs have to showcase him if they are hoping to include him in a possible trade. He was NBA All defensive 2nd team, and could very well be a very good 3 and D, IF he could consistently knock those 3’s. Bowen had no handles but made a career strictly as 3 and D. DJ is simply not a PG for everything that’s already mentioned, lack of handles, bad decision making, etc. The problem is Vassell and Keldon seem a better fit. Can Spurs play DJ from the bench paying 16m annually? Possible Manu role if he buys it. For me the solid starter would be White, Vassell, Keldon, Demar, Aldridge depending on the matchup. DJ is just not a starting PG. He could run with Mills, Lonnie, Gay, Poeltl, emphasis on run.

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this is what needs to happen. of course with injuries, especially to white, it is difficult to move murray to the bench.

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Originally Posted by tbdog

Doesn't Smart come off the bench on his contract?

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Nope. In the beginning of last season he came off the bench but when it become clear that he was better starting over Hayward. He became the permanent starting 2. Now, with Kemba sealing that knee issue. Hes the starting PG

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Originally Posted by Mr. Body

He certainly has value in the league, I just don't know if he plays well in the Spurs system. Something more freewheeling and open would work for him, although I'm not sure he couldn't work here. I would quietly gauge his value.

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I could see him in Orlando playing a similar role as Fultz although they did grab Cole Anthony.

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Originally Posted by 8FOR!3

https://youtu.be/wbiBb8Xe7cc

The problem is we have some guys who just aren’t natural scorers playing together, Dejounte Murray being the main one. Lonnie Walker looks to be really improving. But in an ideal world you need to have Murray next to 4 shooters at all times and DeRozan presents a problem there. I’d consider moving on from Murray before DeRozan, just my opinion. I really like Murray and I hope he figures it out, he just isn’t showing much. The purpose of this isn’t to trash Murray though, I think most if not all Spurs fans like and are rooting for the guy. And I don’t think we have to rush anything, he deserves a chance he’s only been healthy for one season following that major injury, but at some point we’ve got to think about moving on if he doesn’t show more right?

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good video, but looking at this forum, I have to disagree with that specific point.

I don't see DJ value dropping, he'll be a perennial all defensive guard for the foreseeable future with the guards like Bledsoe and Beverley getting old. He is now able to put on weight a year after ACL rehab meaning his finishing and versatility on defense is going to improve naturally. If his offense take another jump to above average he will be a borderline all star. If he didn't take a huge leap in terms of his shooting last year I would share the same sentiment as most of the posters here, but last year he was top 10 FG% in midrange before the bubble and above average on spot up 3 pointers ( 41% from Jan-Mar ). Everyone seems to forget that he was mostly a cutter/slasher and dunker spot option on offense his first 2 seasons.

Defense does not pay much and 16 mil is probably the highest you would pay for an all-defense guard, but he is younger and has more offensive potential than comparable guards like Beverley(13mil), Smart(14mil) and Bledsoe(16mil).

We don't have the key piece to build around yet , why would having DJ be a problem? he is still 2 years away from his prime and he might be a good complement to a wing initiator or a scoring guard.

He has been successfully neutered... And there's no Duncan to carry them to hide it... Under any other coach he would have been let loose and shown improvement year after year... As I famously said before... If steph curry was drafted by us... He'd be yanked indefinitely the first time he pulled up from 40 on a fast break... Giannis would have been to the g-league his first 3 years... Then treated like a scrub when he finally plays for the team

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Originally Posted by TimDunkem

Backup PG is his ceiling. Trade him while his value is at it's peak, tbh.

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BwahahahhahahahahhaHhahahahHHHHhahhahahahahah

^This is a 60 year old man who lies about going to maskless raves. RAVES. :lmao

i am concerned with every single player on the roster.

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Originally Posted by TimDunkem

^This is a 60 year old man who lies about going to maskless raves. RAVES. :lmao

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Not as embarrassing as you saying Murray was a good draft pick every year until now.

^:lol Set shot 2s at 40% made you a "star" in HS.

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Originally Posted by TimDunkem

^:lol Set shot 2s at 40% made you a "star" in HS.

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Your response to you being ignorant about basketball is an emotional reaction to my past 40 some years ago?

Looks like you're meltdown continues. Get back on meds

^Remember when you said you were in Brazil. :lol

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Originally Posted by TimDunkem

^Remember when you said you were in Brazil. :lol

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I was

^Remember when you said only 5k would die from COVID max then you hid for 2 months? :lol

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Originally Posted by tholdren

Your response to you being ignorant about basketball is an emotional reaction to my past 40 some years ago?

Looks like you're meltdown continues. Get back on meds

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Tim meds kin lololool

Going cray cray

^Remember when you pretended Chump was in your DMS because he embarrassed you? :lol

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Originally Posted by EasyMoney

People acting like a 24 year old, 6'5 two player has no trade value.

Just last month people were talking about putting him In a trade package for Atlanta's 7th pick.

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His value is a 2nd rounder.

I really hope Trey gets a jumper. He has all the tools to be a great back up point guard, with Derrick as our starter. This could be a solid point guard combo for years to come if he can make open 3s. I'm beginning to think we should trade DJ and re-sign Demar.

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Originally Posted by KobesAchilles

I really hope Trey gets a jumper. He has all the tools to be a great back up point guard, with Derrick as our starter. This could be a solid point guard combo for years to come if he can make open 3s. I'm beginning to think we should trade DJ and re-sign Demar.

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Insert The Office "NO! NO!" gif here... Please, no. I don't care that he makes the Spurs marginally better, I don't know how much more of his bullshit I can bare to watch. I'd rather see young players lose 60 games learning in the process, than DeMar spearhead a team that loses 50 games whilst taking away chances from other players, pouting on the court, and instilling bad habits on the team. Re-signing Gay, DD, or LMA would be an absolute mistake.

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Originally Posted by Sugus

Insert The Office "NO! NO!" gif here... Please, no. I don't care that he makes the Spurs marginally better, I don't know how much more of his bullshit I can bare to watch. I'd rather see young players lose 60 games learning in the process, than DeMar spearhead a team that loses 50 games whilst taking away chances from other players, pouting on the court, and instilling bad habits on the team. Re-signing Gay, DD, or LMA would be an absolute mistake.

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I agree

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Originally Posted by duncan2k5

He has been successfully neutered... And there's no Duncan to carry them to hide it... Under any other coach he would have been let loose and shown improvement year after year... As I famously said before... If steph curry was drafted by us... He'd be yanked indefinitely the first time he pulled up from 40 on a fast break... Giannis would have been to the g-league his first 3 years... Then treated like a scrub when he finally plays for the team

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Maybe it’s that or maybe he’s just not an aggressive NBA scorer. He plays like an AAU player. I mean Vassell hasn’t looked scared to shoot.

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Originally Posted by KobesAchilles

I really hope Trey gets a jumper. He has all the tools to be a great back up point guard, with Derrick as our starter. This could be a solid point guard combo for years to come if he can make open 3s. I'm beginning to think we should trade DJ and re-sign Demar.

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Hey I think his brother is a solid backup point so it may work out in Tre’s favor.

He is a second round pick anytime they can stick that is a win win cause more often then not they out off NBA after a few years.

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Originally Posted by KobesAchilles

I really hope Trey gets a jumper. He has all the tools to be a great back up point guard, with Derrick as our starter. This could be a solid point guard combo for years to come if he can make open 3s. I'm beginning to think we should trade DJ and re-sign Demar.

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Can we make clear that there is a player named Trey on the roster, and it isn't Tre Jones? It's not fucking hard.

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Originally Posted by Mr. Body

Can we make clear that there is a player named Trey on the roster, and it isn't Tre Jones? It's not fucking hard.

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And we don't have a Tre Young either.

- Chinook

I think people on ST are stuck in this hardheaded thought that DeJounte is a PG. Thus why they bitch about his perceived lack of PG skills.

He shouldn't be compared to Dunn, Payton or Smith because they are all more natural PG's than DeJounte (be it because of skillset or size).

Nitilikina is a much better comparison & DeJounte has improved a lot more & is (IMO) plainly better than him.

I think his ceiling is a modern version of Aaron McKie or Nate McMillan with a lot less playmaking skills than Nate. Yet, he's already better offensively than both players (after their age 24 season).

I want to see DeJounte playing consistent minutes with Derrick, with a lot less playmaking/ball handling responsibilities & more average/above average defenders around him before I'll "cast him aside."

I think his niche on the team and in the NBA is incongruent with how ST views him.

Also, all of the young guards need to improve not just DeJounte. Lonnie's defense has been piss poor in the preseason & Derrick needs to be a constant force more often like in the NBA bubble.

Keldon & Devin are exempt for now since they have such little NBA minutes played.

"Zero ability to drive into the paint and kick it out":

https://i.imgur.com/hpP3O6E.gif

"No vision":
https://i.imgur.com/J9du4TF.gif


"No vision, no passing skills":
https://i.imgur.com/8fevGYu.gif

"Zero ability to drive into the paint and find a good pass":
https://i.imgur.com/ZjTMXAf.gif

"Can't drive into the paint and make a bucket":

https://i.imgur.com/bt8O8xg.gif

"No finishing skills, can't pull off a fast break":

https://i.imgur.com/dbbK2Uk.gif

"Can't beat his man, can't drive to the basket. Didn't improve his speed or quickness":

https://i.imgur.com/Qii6PfM.gif

"He still hesitates too much":

https://i.imgur.com/cPJQpyr.gif

"Can't drive and dish":
https://i.imgur.com/jX4VJhE.gif

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Originally Posted by Mr. Body

Can we make clear that there is a player named Trey on the roster, and it isn't Tre Jones? It's not fucking hard.

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Brah of all the things to get mad at. Like I’m supposed to remember all the stupid ways people spell Trey, Tre, Trae. Like fuck man shit gets ridiculous.

illusion those are all good clips but if you're going to show the good from that game show the bad too because it's not like he played a great game...He was productive but he did struggle at the same time.

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Originally Posted by 8FOR!3

illusion those are all good clips but if you're going to show the good from that game show the bad too because it's not like he played a great game...He was productive but he did struggle at the same time.

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I bet you $100 that I could go through all of DJ's minutes and find more good than bad in game 2 and 3 and I'll post them here. I'm just waiting for league pass to archive the game.

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Originally Posted by rankingtear

I don't see DJ value dropping, he'll be a perennial all defensive guard for the foreseeable future with the guards like Bledsoe and Beverley getting old. He is now able to put on weight a year after ACL rehab meaning his finishing and versatility on defense is going to improve naturally. If his offense take another jump to above average he will be a borderline all star. If he didn't take a huge leap in terms of his shooting last year I would share the same sentiment as most of the posters here, but last year he was top 10 FG% in midrange before the bubble and above average on spot up 3 pointers ( 41% from Jan-Mar ). Everyone seems to forget that he was mostly a cutter/slasher and dunker spot option on offense his first 2 seasons.

Defense does not pay much and 16 mil is probably the highest you would pay for an all-defense guard, but he is younger and has more offensive potential than comparable guards like Beverley(13mil), Smart(14mil) and Bledsoe(16mil).

We don't have the key piece to build around yet , why would having DJ be a problem? he is still 2 years away from his prime and he might be a good complement to a wing initiator or a scoring guard.

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Even if he is, who was/is lining up for Bledsoe and Beverley? Smart and Bledsoe are clearly higher ceiling offensive players. The former is a good secondary play maker and decent shooter, while the latter is a good slasher and finisher.

If his offense takes another jump, it'll merely be in the vicinity of average. His shooting, though clearly improved, was small sample size and wide open. He's nowhere near being able to puncture defenses in p-n-r or space the floor.

He's a problem because he doesn't have value, which means stubbornly retaining him as opposed to giving up away. The money in a vacuum isn't a big deal, but he's a difficult piece to build around and because they jumped the gun on him, they might be less likely to extend White now (lack of durability doesn't help) or if they do, they'll have tied up significant money in a backcourt severely lacking in offensive dynamism.

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Originally Posted by 8FOR!3

illusion those are all good clips but if you're going to show the good from that game show the bad too because it's not like he played a great game...He was productive but he did struggle at the same time.

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I'll compile ALL his possessions and add a ticker. Just say the word.

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Originally Posted by TD 21

Even if he is, who was/is lining up for Bledsoe and Beverley? Smart and Bledsoe are clearly higher ceiling offensive players. The former is a good secondary play maker and decent shooter, while the latter is a good slasher and finisher.

If his offense takes another jump, it'll merely be in the vicinity of average. His shooting, though clearly improved, was small sample size and wide open. He's nowhere near being able to puncture defenses in p-n-r or space the floor.

He's a problem because he doesn't have value, which means stubbornly retaining him as opposed to giving up away. The money in a vacuum isn't a big deal, but he's a difficult piece to build around and because they jumped the gun on him, they might be less likely to extend White now (lack of durability doesn't help) or if they do, they'll have tied up significant money in a backcourt severely lacking in offensive dynamism.

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Everybody would lineup for a 24 year old Bledsoe or Beverley. Smart has 1 season shooting above 40% FG find players not in their rookie contracts still employed by an NBA team with his FG% and Bledsoe turned into a below average 3pt shooter.

Why wouldn't he be able to puncture defense in the PNR? He already showed he can take guys to the rim 1 on 1 the last few games with his explosiveness back and the only big who rolls is Jakob. He reworked his jumper, it takes a lot of repetition to be comfortable shooting a reworked shot.

Where is the evidence that he doesn't have value when 3 media outlets (ESPN,SI,Athletic) peg him as a top 100 player in the NBA, he had 2 all defensive votes last season even when our defense is a dumpster fire. Everyone in the NBA knows a down year after ACL surgery is common.

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Originally Posted by rankingtear

Everybody would lineup for a 24 year old Bledsoe or Beverley. Smart has 1 season shooting above 40% FG find players not in their rookie contracts still employed by an NBA team with his FG% and Bledsoe turned into a below average 3pt shooter.

Why wouldn't he be able to puncture defense in the PNR? He already showed he can take guys to the rim 1 on 1 the last few games with his explosiveness back and the only big who rolls is Jakob. He reworked his jumper, it takes a lot of repetition to be comfortable shooting a reworked shot.

Where is the evidence that he doesn't have value when 3 media outlets (ESPN,SI,Athletic) peg him as a top 100 player in the NBA, he had 2 all defensive votes last season even when our defense is a dumpster fire. Everyone in the NBA knows a down year after ACL surgery is common.

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Yet, he didn't have a down year. He improved in nearly every statistical category even with him coming back from a severe injury & a line up that doesn't fit his strengths/a misplaced role.

He has clearly become the new "whipping boy" of ST partly because of his contract & his inability to become an elite offensive prospect. They'll continue to bitch until either he's gone, the team finds an actual high - end prospect (could be Keldon or Devin) or the Spurs adjust his role on offense.

Until then, the incessant bitching, whining & crying about his pay & play will continue.

Note: I've already adjusted my expectations for DeJounte (a better scoring Aaron McKie or Nate McMillan), but also realized he has improved a ton since 3 or 4 years ago. He came out of college as an erratic shooting, inefficient combo guard without a true position.

Now, he's improved his PG skills & is far, far more efficient than in college (with a reworked jumper that the poster above me said) even with suffering a terrible knee injury (that robbed him of a year of development). Pop & the team need to rework his role now & have him play to his strengths of defense & transition offense.

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Originally Posted by Dejounte

I'll compile ALL his possessions and add a ticker. Just say the word.

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It'd be worth watching anyways

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Originally Posted by Mr. Body

Can we make clear that there is a player named Trey on the roster, and it isn't Tre Jones? It's not fucking hard.

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Maybe the idea is to make Trey Lyles our backup point guard?

100. Dejounte Murray, San Antonio Spurs
The Spurs are in the midst of pivoting to a new era, with DeMar DeRozan’s and LaMarcus Aldridge’s contracts set to expire after 2020–21. So who will lead San Antonio forward? Murray is likely the franchise headliner. He isn’t a prototypical point guard, but Murray’s athletic gifts are undeniable. He’s a superb on-ball defender, sporting a 6' 10" wingspan that makes life increasingly difficult for opposing guards. Murray’s ability to upsize onto larger guards provides significant value, as does his ability to wreak havoc in passing lanes. There’s a significant dose of uncertainty for San Antonio after two decades of sustained success. Murray’s defensive excellence should help stabilize the ship. His defensive value and transition prowess lands him the final spot on our Top 100, and he’ll need to improve his half-court offense to move much higher. Murray attempted fewer than two threes per game last season, and his reticence from beyond the arc isn’t an isolated statistic. He doesn’t quite explode to the rim in the half court, nor does he look to create his own shot. He’s often too content to probe and dish, limiting his scoring impact in a middling offense. Let’s hope Murray truly takes the reins of San Antonio’s offense after an underwhelming offensive campaign in 2019–20. —Michael Shapiro

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Originally Posted by rankingtear

Everybody would lineup for a 24 year old Bledsoe or Beverley. Smart has 1 season shooting above 40% FG find players not in their rookie contracts still employed by an NBA team with his FG% and Bledsoe turned into a below average 3pt shooter.

Why wouldn't he be able to puncture defense in the PNR? He already showed he can take guys to the rim 1 on 1 the last few games with his explosiveness back and the only big who rolls is Jakob. He reworked his jumper, it takes a lot of repetition to be comfortable shooting a reworked shot.

Where is the evidence that he doesn't have value when 3 media outlets (ESPN,SI,Athletic) peg him as a top 100 player in the NBA, he had 2 all defensive votes last season even when our defense is a dumpster fire. Everyone in the NBA knows a down year after ACL surgery is common.

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They were/are better players. Smart is a league average/volume 3-point shooter in consecutive seasons.

Because he lacks the shooting to prevent them from going over and the speed to beat them to the other side and get in the paint despite it.

Those are not evidence he does. National media, for the most part, don't have intimate knowledge of non glamour teams. That's why so many still think he's the key young building block for the Spurs.

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Originally Posted by TD 21

They were/are better players. Smart is a league average/volume 3-point shooter in consecutive seasons.

Because he lacks the shooting to prevent them from going over and the speed to beat them to the other side and get in the paint despite it.

Those are not evidence he does. National media, for the most part, don't have intimate knowledge of non glamour teams. That's why so many still think he's the key young building block for the Spurs.

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Smart was below league average last year. 35% to 36%. Smart shot 30% from three his fourth year.

I don't think he lacks speed to get to the rim, he had it in spades the last few games.

Disregard the intel these panel of experts have and the tools they have access to like Synergy etc. Your'e suggesting a fan who mostly watches spurs game can rank a player relative to 450 other players more objectively than a panel of reporters who covers all teams?

:lol did that guy really include a clip of murray leading a 5-2 fastbreak possession as proof of his ability to drive and kick?

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Originally Posted by spurraider21

:lol did that guy really include a clip of murray leading a 5-2 fastbreak possession as proof of his ability to drive and kick?

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With a defender on him. Congratulations, you picked one clip out of 9. Y'all are really pushing me to go through his entire possessions just to prove you wrong.

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Originally Posted by rankingtear

Smart was below league average last year. 35% to 36%. Smart shot 30% from three his fourth year.

I don't think he lacks speed to get to the rim, he had it in spades the last few games.

Disregard the intel these panel of experts have and the tools they have access to like Synergy etc. Your'e suggesting a fan who mostly watches spurs game can rank a player relative to 450 other players more objectively than a panel of reporters who covers all teams?

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League average is 35-36% annually. He was 36.4% and 34.7% the past two seasons.

He lacks speed, strength and handle, in terms of getting to and finishing at the rim.

"Experts"? They're consensus rankings from their NBA personalities. If you've read/listened to many of them, you'd know they're not the types to use Syngergy. Many rely on word of mouth with non glamour teams. Talking heads/writers are not akin to front office executives.

You don't know who I mostly watch and as a Spurs fan, your narrative would fit had I been overrating him.

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Originally Posted by TD 21

League average is 35-36% annually. He was 36.4% and 34.7% the past two seasons.

He lacks speed, strength and handle, in terms of getting to and finishing at the rim.

"Experts"? They're consensus rankings from their NBA personalities. If you've read/listened to many of them, you'd know they're not the types to use Syngergy. Many rely on word of mouth with non glamour teams. Talking heads/writers are not akin to front office executives.

You don't know who I mostly watch and as a Spurs fan, your narrative would fit had I been overrating him.

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I don't get why you think he lacks speed. Strength is improved and handle is still loose but his crossover gets by most defenders. Finishing would improve this year added strength/explosiveness and mentality regarding the ACL tear.

SI top 100 references Synergy playtypes.
https://www.si.com/nba/2020/12/14/to...21-daily-cover

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Originally Posted by rankingtear

I don't get why you think he lacks speed. Strength is improved and handle is still loose but his crossover gets by most defenders. Finishing would improve this year added strength/explosiveness and mentality regarding the ACL tear.

SI top 100 references Synergy playtypes.
https://www.si.com/nba/2020/12/14/to...21-daily-cover

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You've fast become one of the few people worth reading here and I respect your opinion, but you're not swaying me.

Sure, he's improved, but the bar was so low to begin with that it's still not nearly enough and the only path I see to his not being a difficult player to build with is by him embracing becoming a volume 3-point shooter.

They have the best list annually, but the fact that these lists almost always have Murray ahead of White (generally misses cut), tells you all you need to know about their knowledge of the Spurs.

We seen enough of DJ to know what you going to get. Best suited coming of the bench. Glorified role player.

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Originally Posted by Slippy

We seen enough of DJ to know what you going to get. Best suited coming of the bench. Glorified role player.

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Is that better than a regular role player?

guy is a fkn scrub

his being overtaken by the younger players on the team

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Originally Posted by tonight...you

Is that better than a regular role player?

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Nah because he has the shit contract to go with it.

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Originally Posted by TimDunkem

Nah because he has the shit contract to go with it.

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Understood.

Any team have a young, black, and athletic big that could be had for the combo of Lonnie and Murray?

Stopped reading here:

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Originally Posted by 8FOR!3

The problem is we have some guys who just aren’t natural scorers playing together, Dejounte Murray being the main one. Lonnie Walker looks to be really improving. But in an ideal world you need to have Murray next to 4 shooters at all times and DeRozan presents a problem there. I’d consider moving on from Murray before DeRozan, just my opinion. I really like Murray and I hope he figures it out, he just isn’t showing much. The purpose of this isn’t to trash Murray though, I think most if not all Spurs fans like and are rooting for the guy. And I don’t think we have to rush anything, he deserves a chance he’s only been healthy for one season following that major injury, but at some point we’ve got to think about moving on if he doesn’t show more right?

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I wonder what people think DJ should be. from what I read on here they wan him shooting 5-7 3s a game which put him making roughly 1 and a half to 2 and a hlaf a game. lets call it 2 for easy math. you figure he is going to make 3-4 2 pts a game well figure 7 points. figure another 4 fts a game thats 17 pts. while I have never heard a ast number they only say better passing well go 6 ast. He avg 4 last year so lets give him 2 more a game which would be 6. His To would go up but get better from the 2-1 it currently is. He would still get his 6 reb and 2 steals.

So with the stats it would put him at 17 pts 2 3s 6 reb 6 ast 2 steals. While that is not allstar level it is not far outside of it either.
He is making about 16 mil a year if he hits his incentives. The rookie max extension is almost 40 mil a year. He is makeing less then half of what a max player would make.

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Originally Posted by talkspurs

I wonder what people think DJ should be. from what I read on here they wan him shooting 5-7 3s a game which put him making roughly 1 and a half to 2 and a hlaf a game. lets call it 2 for easy math. you figure he is going to make 3-4 2 pts a game well figure 7 points. figure another 4 fts a game thats 17 pts. while I have never heard a ast number they only say better passing well go 6 ast. He avg 4 last year so lets give him 2 more a game which would be 6. His To would go up but get better from the 2-1 it currently is. He would still get his 6 reb and 2 steals.

So with the stats it would put him at 17 pts 2 3s 6 reb 6 ast 2 steals. While that is not allstar level it is not far outside of it either.
He is making about 16 mil a year if he hits his incentives. The rookie max extension is almost 40 mil a year. He is makeing less then half of what a max player would make.

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They love bitching, moaning about someone in a Spurs jersey (ala Tony Parker, Matt Bonner, DeJuan Blair, Gary Neal, Bryn Forbes, etc) so Murray has taken that role as he's one of the better young players on the squad.

I like that analysis by SI & your standpoint on DeJounte, but their isn't any swaying the congregation about him. I do think he does need to become a volume three-point shooter, play off-ball more with Derrick playmaking/initiating & be more consistent on both side.

Yet, a lot of the problems are based on his alleged "overpriced" contract, lack of elite offensive upside - he's the 29th pick for Pete's sake, everyone can't become TP on offense - and playing role/position that doesn't truly suit his skillset or strengths.

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Originally Posted by tonight...you

Is that better than a regular role player?

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He can be a valuabe role player. Disruptive on defense and another dynamic energy guy on offense just not at PG.. he aint a natural and hast growen into one . Glorified among a few spurs fans tho who fail to see his limits.

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Originally Posted by Slippy

He can be a valuabe role player. Disruptive on defense and another dynamic energy guy on offense just not at PG.. he aint a natural and hast growen into one . Glorified among a few spurs fans tho who fail to see his limits.

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Copy.

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Originally Posted by Slippy

He can be a valuabe role player. Disruptive on defense and another dynamic energy guy on offense just not at PG.. he aint a natural and hast growen into one . Glorified among a few spurs fans tho who fail to see his limits.

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Or they (fans like myself) choice not to incessantly harp on his limits, realize he does possess some positive attributes & needs Pop to adjust his role for him to reach his maximum potential.

I'm personally not super high on any of our current prospects until someone really breaks away from the pack. DeJounte & Derrick are the best of the group, yet they both had uneven seasons last year and I'm hopeful that a change in roles/the lineup will help them take a bigger jump.

I don't think you will see much growth from Walker this year and I think Murry will improve a little bit still not near a starting PG. As far as Keldon I am hoping we see him continue to grow that would really make me a happy camper and give us 3 legit NBA starters White, Keldon, and Vassell.

In all honestly I think when LMA and Derozz are gone will really see Walker, White, and Murray make the improvements we thought they would to a degree. On one hand that is good on the other hand it shows that these are Beta players not your true ALPHA type of dogs you want to get a ring.

Murray’s development is not complicated. It’s all handles and finishing through contact. He can easily blow past guys but often misses lay ups or loses the ball cause his dribble is too high. If he can get by defenders on the regular that will make them sag off of him and give him space for the jumper. Working on his handles
should be the top priority

I think also a feel for the game which is many things but when and where to make a pass or when or not to make/try a certain play.
Murray’s failure these types of issues makes for Murray’s less than stellar PG history.
He does a lot of good things but has not proven he is the main ball handler/decision maker.
White and DDR are better. DDR ain’t worth the money though.

One thing to keep in mind is that DJ is indeed tall for his position... surly based on experience everyone should know sometimes handles won't be up to par.

He is designed for defence.

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Originally Posted by illusioNtEk

One thing to keep in mind is that DJ is indeed tall for his position... surly based on experience everyone should know sometimes handles won't be up to par.

He is designed for defence.

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WTF does that have to do with handles? Nephew, Pandemic P, LeBron, KD, Tatum, Jalen Brown, Ben Simmons, etc. etc. etc. are all taller than him and have better handles.

hasnt done shit worth mentioning

DJM will lead all of our guards/wings in rebounds and will be 3rd overall behind only LMA and Jakob. He will most likely be 2nd overall in offensive rebounds which will help create 2nd chance points. That will be huge for the team and add in the fact that his defense will help factor in to the success of the team. It's not all about scoring and as far as his dribbling goes, he's not the best at it but he's no Danny Green either. White and DDR will take on a lot of the dribbling duties. Pop mentioned last season that there's no PG position on this team but it's nice to have multiple players that can bring the ball up the court under pressure - White, DJM, DDR, LW4 and Mills.

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Originally Posted by RC_Drunkford

WTF does that have to do with handles? Nephew, Pandemic P, LeBron, KD, Tatum, Jalen Brown, Ben Simmons, etc. etc. etc. are all taller than him and have better handles.

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I think the point is that all the players you mentioned aren't PGs. The sooner Murray realizes he isn't a PG, but instead a wing with secondary playmaking abilities, the better.