A debate I've been having on another forum...

First of all, I've been lurking around the past few weeks and decided to join you guys. You're a great bunch.

Second of all, I'm an admin on another forum (it's a soccer forum) and of course I opened a Playoff thread there. The whole thing started off with me saying that no one cared about the Heat before Wade and Shaq arrived and that. My friend said that the Heat have been great for some time now and that Duncan wasn't the best because he didn't perform well at the 2004 Olympics and then compared his failure to win gold to Robert Baggio's penalty miss during World Cup 1994. Then he said that Garnett was better than Duncan because he had a better Olympic performance.

Just wanted to see what you guys thought of it...

duncan is injured this year

3...working on 4...enough said

Well Carlos Arroyo had a pretty good showing in the Olympics, so I guess he's better than Allen Iverson.

Rings.

does playing in the nba playoffs better then duncan matter more then just the olympics


I think so

Welcome.

Zo and Riley initially put Miami on the map, but Wade is the main force behind the new hype. Shaq certainly doesn't hurt.

As for the Olympic comparisons, it was easier for the Dream Teams of the past. I would agree that Garnett is a better FIBA player than Duncan, but there's no way in hell I'd trade Duncan for KG on the Spurs.

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Originally Posted by ducks

does playing in the nba playoffs better then duncan matter more then just the olympics


I think so

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You see this is what I've been trying to get through to him. The fact that Tim is constantly up for the MVP and on the All-NBA teams speaks volumes about the type of consistent player he is.

tell those morons, the team built around duncan fo rthe athens game was to sell shirts, and if you look at the team, all misfitz and wrong players asembled, most of the guyz were slashers, non had jumpshots. Lookn at the tourney did any of you guyz actually think duncan wouldve done better, since it was usually 5 on 1 when he touched the ball down low, wattabout the different rules allowin 5 players to camp in the lane.

lookn at the performance do u actually think jefferson was worth max when he sign durin the olympics? NO.

KG is good in the olympics.
but Duncan is so much better than KG..when it comes to making the playoffs.

Duncan was a hell of a lot better than KG in the 2004 Olympics.

That pussy didn't even show up after giving his word that he would.

Well, both of you are wrong.

The Heat didn't become significant until Zo and Hardaway were around and their battles with the Knicks. Wade/Shaq have all the attention, but they have just as many rings as Zo/Hardaway in Miami.

As far as KG being better than Duncan...well, that tells you how much he knows about basketball. None.

How much can somebody know about sports that is willing to sit there for 90 minutes to watch a game end in a 0-0 tie?

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Originally Posted by Obstructed_View

How much can somebody know about sports that is willing to sit there for 90 minutes to watch a game end in a 0-0 tie?

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A lot more than someone who watches a sissy and boring version of rugby :lmao

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Originally Posted by Manu'sMagicalLeftHand

A lot more than someone who watches a sissy and boring version of rugby :lmao

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What are you talking about?

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Originally Posted by Obstructed_View

What are you talking about?

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Gridiron

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Originally Posted by Manu'sMagicalLeftHand

Gridiron

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Ah. Gotcha. Actually, it's theoretically possible, but I think if an NFL game ever ends in a 0-0 tie both teams will be automatically contracted.

Wgaf.

makedamnsure,

While reffing is never going to be perfect, at times bad reffing greatly affects an outcome. Such was Duncans treatment by the FIBA refs. You can rest assured of that.

I am assuming you are not the poster "mouse". He likes to appear in drag.

Duncan is on the downside of his career on the offensive end. Everybody talks about the injury, but I saw Sean Elliott put up huge numbers and play lock down defense with one kidney. Allen Iverson is always hurt, and so are other players.

How many Rings for KG have?

None?

It's about Team ball not blowing out your body in regular season. Saving it for playoffs when the other guy.. LIKE KG is normally FISHING when Timmy is giving the playoff clinic.


Garnett is like a buger flipper and Timmy is the burger chain manager... if you had a performance scale.

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Originally Posted by Obstructed_View

How much can somebody know about sports that is willing to sit there for 90 minutes to watch a game end in a 0-0 tie?

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:lol :lol :lol

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Originally Posted by Vashner

How many Rings for KG have?

None?

It's about Team ball not blowing out your body in regular season. Saving it for playoffs when the other guy.. LIKE KG is normally FISHING when Timmy is giving the playoff clinic.


Garnett is like a buger flipper and Timmy is the burger chain manager... if you had a performance scale.

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first of all if duncan was on this horrible team that KG has then they still wouldnt make the playoffs. so dont give me that crap about him leading his team to the playoffs. duncan is a great player and leader but its not kevins fault that his players dont play hard every night! there second best player is fucking ricky davis! how the hell do you expect anyone to get to the playoffs with that shit. in the west i might add.

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Originally Posted by spurs=bling

KG is good in the olympics.
but Duncan is so much better than KG..when it comes to making the playoffs.

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pretty easy to do when you have fucking van exel horry finley and barry dumb ass. compared to mark blount and some guy named marcus banks!

Duncan and Wally + scrubs would've made the playoffs easy.

Inside-Out works when you have something inside.

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Originally Posted by RON ARTEST

pretty easy to do when you have fucking van exel horry finley and barry dumb ass. compared to mark blount and some guy named marcus banks!

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Wow please stop typing. Do you honestly believe Kevin Garnett is a better player than Duncan? I'm not talking 1 on 1 or streetball skills here either. Do you honestly think he's a better team player?

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Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

Duncan and Wally + scrubs would've made the playoffs easy.

Inside-Out works when you have something inside.

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no it wouldnt! not this year. not over the kings with artest, lakers, clippers, mavs, spurs,grizz,suns,denver. are you crazy? wally freakin whatever the hell his name is! and duncan wouldnt have made it either trust me. KG is a better rebounder, passer, scorer (now that duncan is on the downside of his career)and he is a better jumpshooter. now all he needs is a good coach who knows what hes doing and at least some decent players around him otherwise im gonna be hearing stupid shit like KG and WALLY wouldve made the playoffs in the west. which is very dumb by the way.

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Originally Posted by Josh810

Wow please stop typing. Do you honestly believe Kevin Garnett is a better player than Duncan? I'm not talking 1 on 1 or streetball skills here either. Do you honestly think he's a better team player?

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yes i do. he is a great player and an unselfish player and he can do everything duncan can do and more. dont get me wrong im not saying duncan sucks or anything. im just saying he isnt as good as KG. its funny most of you have selective memory around here. kevin garnett showed what the fuck he can do when he has good teamates and a deep team. if sam i am was healthy they probably would have been in the NBA finals. so yes i do think hes a better player.

KG has had Sprewell, Cassell, and Sczerbiak
The most he has done is get to the WCF. He doesn't get it done when it matters most, and that's what separates the good from the greats. Quit coming up with excuses for the guy, it's pathetic.

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Originally Posted by Josh810

KG has had Sprewell, Cassell, and Sczerbiak
The most he has done is get to the WCF. He doesn't get it done when it matters most, and that's what separates the good from the greats. Quit coming up with excuses for the guy, it's pathetic.

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its an excuse but its fact! when a great player is surounded by a good supporting cast they win. and unlike duncan garnett has only had one year where he can actually claim he had all that. the only thing pathetic here is you and your homerism. answer me this question. If duncan was on this years T-wolves team do they make the playoffs?

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Originally Posted by Josh810

KG has had Sprewell, Cassell, and Sczerbiak
The most he has done is get to the WCF. He doesn't get it done when it matters most, and that's what separates the good from the greats. Quit coming up with excuses for the guy, it's pathetic.

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put down the homerade buddy.

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Originally Posted by RON ARTEST

its an excuse but its fact! when a great player is surounded by a good supporting cast they win. and unlike duncan garnett has only had one year where he can actually claim he had all that. the only thing pathetic here is you and your homerism. answer me this question. If duncan was on this years T-wolves team do they make the playoffs?

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I'm doubting it, since he's been injured all season. That has nothing to do with who's a greater player anyways, what if's are pointless. Of course, being a Kings fan, I'm sure you ask yourself what if everyday, with all the heartbreak over the years.

Ask any semi-intelligent analyst who is the better player and they will say Duncan, it's not homerism. It's the truth. He has won a ring with 2 almost completely different rosters. People like you base your assessment on stats and whatnot. It's a team game, Duncan makes his teammates better.

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Originally Posted by Obstructed_View

How much can somebody know about sports that is willing to sit there for 90 minutes to watch a game end in a 0-0 tie?

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yeah, so I guess the only ones that know anything about sports are Americans right? since the rest of the world loves soccer. http://spurstalk.com/forums/images/s...mirolleyes.gif

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now that duncan is on the downside of his career

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Fuck you, idiot.

How old is KG?

How many more minutes has he played?

You can whine about stats all you want, but this isn't fantasy basketball. KG is content with chucking up fadeaway threes rather than playing inside where men like Duncan win championsihps.

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Originally Posted by makedamnsure

First of all, I've been lurking around the past few weeks and decided to join you guys. You're a great bunch.

Second of all, I'm an admin on another forum (it's a soccer forum) and of course I opened a Playoff thread there. The whole thing started off with me saying that no one cared about the Heat before Wade and Shaq arrived and that. My friend said that the Heat have been great for some time now and that Duncan wasn't the best because he didn't perform well at the 2004 Olympics and then compared his failure to win gold to Robert Baggio's penalty miss during World Cup 1994. Then he said that Garnett was better than Duncan because he had a better Olympic performance.

Just wanted to see what you guys thought of it...

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Baggio never recovered after that penalty, Duncan went on and won the NBA championship.

p.s. i see you're a Gunners fan :tu

MIAMI HEAT 2000-01 ... Miami traded for EDDIE JONES and signed free agent BRIAN GRANT. Alonzo Mourning and Tim Hardaway just came off a summer of Olympic gold. And, there were a lot of NBA analysts talking about the Heat that year. Then Alonzo Mourning suffered from that kidney problem and did not play most of the year. But, the Heat were supposed to make noise that year. And, even before that season, with PJ Brown and Jamal Mashburn, the Heat were an Eastern Conference powerhouse. But, the first round loss to the 8-seeded New York Knicks that season was only the second time a 1-seed fell in the first round.

But, make no mistake, the Miami Heat, even though they are a relatively young franchise, had been on the map before either Wade or Shaq.

As for the Kevin Garnett-Tim Duncan conversation. For 7-8 years now, they have been the two best players in the game. Duncan has accomplished more with respect to team accomplishments. Garnett has put together an incredible career statistically. The debate can go on forever. But, Duncan's championship rings is the clear distinction. Those who laud Kevin Garnett over Tim Duncan cannot answer the playoff failures. And, those who mock Kevin Garnett for his playoff failures don't really take into consideration that team championships take a "TEAM" effort. The two are both extraordinary basketball players with different types of success.

Tim Duncan's Olympic experience was much the fault of Team USA and the way they built that particular team just like Kevin Garnett's failures in post season NBA is much a product of Kevin McHale and the Timberwolve front office failures to build a competent team around Kevin Garnett. The difference is Duncan's experience was one summer and KG's experience has lasted 10 NBA seasons.

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Originally Posted by RON ARTEST

yes i do. he is a great player and an unselfish player and he can do everything duncan can do and more. dont get me wrong im not saying duncan sucks or anything. im just saying he isnt as good as KG. its funny most of you have selective memory around here. kevin garnett showed what the fuck he can do when he has good teamates and a deep team. if sam i am was healthy they probably would have been in the NBA finals. so yes i do think hes a better player.

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Kevin Garnett has a post up game that's as good as Duncan's? Really? How come he doesn't draw double teams and get open shots for his shooters again? The only thing Kevin Garnett showed when he has good teammates and a deep team is that he STILL can't win.

I just don't think there's even a comparison with Duncan and KG any more. Duncan has established a place for himself among the greatest players of all time. Big men on that level don't miss the Playoffs two years in a row during the prime of their career, particularly in a league where more than half of all teams qualify for the postseason.

Arguing Duncan vs. Garnett is like arguing Jordan vs. Wilkins. There was a time when the debate had merit, but that time has passed.

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Originally Posted by RON ARTEST

its an excuse but its fact! when a great player is surounded by a good supporting cast they win. and unlike duncan garnett has only had one year where he can actually claim he had all that. the only thing pathetic here is you and your homerism.

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Chauncey Billups and Ray Allen aren't good players? Then if that's your standard then I guess Terrell Brandon, Joe Smith, Anthony Peeler, Troy Hudson, Kendall Gill and Gary Trent aren't worth mention.

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Originally Posted by RON ARTEST

answer me this question. If duncan was on this years T-wolves team do they make the playoffs?

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Absolutely. They might still have made the Szczerbiak trade because other players would be able to hit all the wide open three pointers that Duncan on the low block creates. Ricky Davis can penetrate and slash and break down a single defender due to the respect the defense has to pay to Duncan. He automatically upgrades their defense to one of the top in the league, and they improve at least 11 games and win the division. By the way, he does all this while battling severe plantar fasciitis.

20 years from now, people will get a vague look in their eye and say, "Now, who was that guy who used to play for the TWolves awhile back? I remember he was pretty good but he never won a title. Geez, what IS his name?"

But no one will ever forget Tim Duncan or his name. :spin

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Originally Posted by pache100

20 years from now, people will get a vague look in their eye and say, "Now, who was that guy who used to play for the TWolves awhile back? I remember he was pretty good but he never won a title. Geez, what IS his name?"

But no one will ever forget Tim Duncan or his name. :spin

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I disagree. Kevin Garnett is a lock for the hall of fame. He's a great player.

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Originally Posted by Obstructed_View

Kevin Garnett is a lock for the hall of fame. He's a great player.

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I don't disagree with that. And, I'm sure those people 20 years from now will remember his name and that he's in the hall of fame...as soon as they go look it up.