Blueprint to victory: A simple recipe for success

It is time to nut up Spurs fans. Stop you freaking whining and start discussing basketball.

I just finished re-watching games 1, 2, 3 and 4.

Allow me first to make a couple of observations, which may seem obvious to some of you:

• The Kings take advantage of their personnel quite nicely. Offensively, they play a switched inside out. I know, it is weird... they try to post up their SF (Artest) and SG (Bonzi) taking advantage of their big bodies, while moving their bigs (Brad, SAR and KT) to the outside. This creates several mismatches, but at the same time it exposes them in other aspects. They also run isos for Bonzi and SAR. More on this later.
  
• Defensively, they are closing the paint, fighting for rebounds like their lives depend on it. When a Spurs penetrate, they are also closing the passing lines.
  
• The Spurs in the last couple of games have played into the Kings’ hands. They are not running, they are not moving the ball, they are playing a static one on one offense most of the time.
  

The way you beat a team that plays like this is by taking advantage of their weakness, i.e. speed and movement. The following is a possible strategy for game 5:

Defense:

1) The Spurs must be more aggressive on the boards. Bowen should take a fast course in boxing out his man, more specifically Bonzi. Tim, Nazr and Rasho must stay very aggressive on the defensive rebounds… keep those hands up, you guys are taller than them. Rebounds are more desire than x’s and o’s. Box out and get the freaking rebounds. It is no surprise that we have been heavy outrebounded in the series (except for game 1), and the Kings are always in the game despite shooting at lower FG%.

2) Put Rasho on SAR when they iso him. As painful as it is to say this, Tim has been quite ineffective in stopping him one on one. If we must double, double off KT or Miller. Please do not leave Bibby, Bonzi, Artest and Martin alone, since they are capable of hitting the three. If either Miller or KT beat you from the outside, so be it… I’ll take my chances.

3) Run some help defense when they iso Bonzi. Don’t let him get in the paint… if he beats you with the jumper, so be it. I’ll take my chances statistically. When he gets the ball he always pauses and then makes one aggressive move. Bowen and/or Manu should be alert and stay focus to anticipate it. Both Artest and Bonzi are adept to getting the offensive foul.

Ofense:

1) Run.

2) Run some more.

3) I want Manu, Finley and Bones running with TP the fast break. Both Artest and Bonzi are slower than our perimeter players. Furthermore, because of the type of offense they use (switched inside out), their SGs and SFs are usually deeper in the opposite side of the court. Their bigs are closer to their basket, but they cannot possibly keep up with our perimeter players. While the Kings are making the effort to prevent transition baskets, they are not a great defensive team in transition. It has been mostly the inability of the Spurs to get into the running game. I think Pop wants this, but the players have not responded.

4) When TP is leading the break he should try finishing at the rim. If the basket is not open, don’t stop, hold the ball and let them establish in defense all the time. Use Bones, Finley and Manu and reward them with a pass when cutting to the basket right after you… right there when you still have the numerical advantage and the defense may not be entirely set… timing is important. Mix it up and pass to a cutter from time to time.

5) When the Spurs get into a half-court game, there are many things to consider. Get the ball to Tim down low. The Kings are doing a good job by denying the entry pass. The Spurs tried a couple of times rotating the ball and switching sides to get a cleaner entry pass… continue doing this. If they double Tim by cheating off the perimeter, Tim should make the fast exterior pass, in particular if Bones and Finley are on his side, and they should take the three with no hesitation. If it doesn’t go in, though luck, it is the right thing to do. Otherwise, let Tim carry you on the possession and do his thing.

6) The Spurs must run some motion offense to mix things up. The few times they did (a couple of times with Manu and Bones running in and out on opposite sides at the same time with a screener near the basket), the Kings looked lost, and most of the time that lead to an open man. This is good in many aspects. It makes our offense less predictable, it frees our perimeter players from their defender and creates higher percentage shots. TP must find the open man when doing this, otherwise it is simply movement without purpose. If he doesn’t make the pass, let Bones or Manu make the pass at the top of the key, and let TP run through screens to free himself. The Spurs should continue doing this more aggressively in addition to four down. A three-pass+ play when the players are moving through screens almost always guarantees a high quality shot.

7) TP should avoid taking the 17ft jumper, even if they leave him open. It is simply not paying off yet and it is a bad move statistically. I think he should either force penetration for a teardrop or a layup, or find the open perimeter player in the act. One important thing to notice though… When penetrating he must have a mental picture of what are his options if penetration is denied. He cannot stop and then look for the open outlet when in trouble in the paint… he must be faster than that. The Kings are closing the paint and the passing lanes once TP stops in the paint… this has led to several TOs that could be avoided. If he commits a turnover or misses a shot when forcing penetration, we should live with it.

8) Hit Manu in the head. Then forget about all this “stay within the offense” nonsense. Ask him to be fucking aggressive. Show him the first quarter of game 1, where he blew past by Artest and anyone they put him in front repeatedly. Play pick and roll on the right side with Duncan and Horry and have a couple of open shooter in the perimeter. Let him do his thing.

I want to hear your opinions Spurs fans. If in doubt, always look at my signature.

Why not try a zone defense that would leave out bigs inside to deal with Bonzi instead of letting him post up our smaller bodied guards?

Maybe a box and one with Parker chasing Bibby outside.

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Originally Posted by wildbill2u

Why not try a zone defense that would leave out bigs inside to deal with Bonzi instead of letting him post up our smaller bodied guards?

Maybe a box and one with Parker chasing Bibby outside.

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This is a good point. :tu

I don't think we have used a zone defense too much in this series.

With Sacramento packing the lane and daring Parker to beat them with his outside shot the previous two games, Popovich thought his point guard had become too tentative. On Sunday, Parker heeded his coach's orders to shoot more. He made consecutive 20-foot shots in the first quarter and led the Spurs with 14 points at the half.


get rid of pop because pop told tp to shoot more and he did

even though pop is in the top 3 coaches in nba today

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Originally Posted by ducks

get rid of pop because pop told tp to shoot more and he did

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No one wants to get rid of anyone. Pop could be wrong, because it is clearly not working.

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Originally Posted by ducks

even though pop is in the top 3 coaches in nba today

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Do you honestly think Pop is infallible?

Your are becoming a nuisance when anyone says something that may remotely affect your view of Tony Parker. I am all for TP taking more shots, but I don't want him taking more jumpers. What is so offensive about this?

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Originally Posted by Rick Von Braun

1) The Spurs must be more aggressive on the boards. Bowen should take a fast course in boxing out his man, more specifically Bonzi. Tim, Nazr and Rasho must stay very aggressive on the defensive rebounds… keep those hands up, you guys are taller than them. Rebounds are more desire than x’s and o’s. Box out and get the freaking rebounds. It is no surprise that we have been heavy outrebounded in the series (except for game 1), and the Kings are always in the game despite shooting at lower FG%.

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Yeah, this is the main key. One problem is Bruce is trying to front Wells and then Wells gets every freaking offensive rebound. That is a dumb tactic by Bowen. You can't front him because the Kings have been great at passing it over him and getting an easy layup ... or if they miss a shot Wells gets the rebound.

I want to see more fight out of Bruce. Sac up, play behind Wells and don't let him dominate on the glass.

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2) Put Rasho on SAR when they iso him. As painful as it is to say this, Tim has been quite ineffective in stopping him one on one. If we must double, double off KT or Miller. Please do not leave Bibby, Bonzi, Artest and Martin alone, since they are capable of hitting the three. If either Miller or KT beat you from the outside, so be it… I’ll take my chances.

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I still think Duncan on SARS is a good matchup for the Spurs. Duncan just needs to stay on his feet and not go for all his pump fakes. The Duncan I've watched over the last decade has owned SARS. I don't know what happened.

The Spurs' game plan last night was to leave Miller ... and Miller made them pay. I guess the Spurs can try doubling off of Thomas, but I'd rather them just try to refrain from doubling as much as possible.

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3) Run some help defense when they iso Bonzi. Don’t let him get in the paint… if he beats you with the jumper, so be it. I’ll take my chances statistically. When he gets the ball he always pauses and then makes one aggressive move. Bowen and/or Manu should be alert and stay focus to anticipate it. Both Artest and Bonzi are adept to getting the offensive foul.

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PUT ROBERT FVCKING HORRY ON HIM

Look back at the first half of Game 4. With Horry on Wells, Wells didn't do crap. No rebounds, no points, no nothing.

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1) Run.

2) Run some more.

3) I want Manu, Finley and Bones running with TP the fast break. Both Artest and Bonzi are slower than our perimeter players. Furthermore, because of the type of offense they use (switched inside out), their SGs and SFs are usually deeper in the opposite side of the court. Their bigs are closer to their basket, but they cannot possibly keep up with our perimeter players. While the Kings are making the effort to prevent transition baskets, they are not a great defensive team in transition. It has been mostly the inability of the Spurs to get into the running game. I think Pop wants this, but the players have not responded.

4) When TP is leading the break he should try finishing at the rim. If the basket is not open, don’t stop, hold the ball and let them establish in defense all the time. Use Bones, Finley and Manu and reward them with a pass when cutting to the basket right after you… right there when you still have the numerical advantage and the defense may not be entirely set… timing is important. Mix it up and pass to a cutter from time to time.

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Yeah, they gotta run. Parker on the break can finish over anyone on this team. Manu needs to get out there running too.

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5) When the Spurs get into a half-court game, there are many things to consider. Get the ball to Tim down low. The Kings are doing a good job by denying the entry pass. The Spurs tried a couple of times rotating the ball and switching sides to get a cleaner entry pass… continue doing this. If they double Tim by cheating off the perimeter, Tim should make the fast exterior pass, in particular if Bones and Finley are on his side, and they should take the three with no hesitation. If it doesn’t go in, though luck, it is the right thing to do. Otherwise, let Tim carry you on the possession and do his thing.

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I want to see two plays in the halfcourt:

Four Down
or
Manu and Duncan pick-and-roll

That's it.

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6) The Spurs must run some motion offense to mix things up. The few times they did (a couple of times with Manu and Bones running in and out on opposite sides at the same time with a screener near the basket), the Kings looked lost, and most of the time that lead to an open man. This is good in many aspects. It makes our offense less predictable, it frees our perimeter players from their defender and creates higher percentage shots. TP must find the open man when doing this, otherwise it is simply movement without purpose. If he doesn’t make the pass, let Bones or Manu make the pass at the top of the key, and let TP run through screens to free himself. The Spurs should continue doing this more aggressively in addition to four down. A three-pass+ play when the players are moving through screens almost always guarantees a high quality shot.

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Nah, I'd rather just run some more Four Down.

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7) TP should avoid taking the 17ft jumper, even if they leave him open. It is simply not paying off yet and it is a bad move statistically. I think he should either force penetration for a teardrop or a layup, or find the open perimeter player in the act. One important thing to notice though… When penetrating he must have a mental picture of what are his options if penetration is denied. He cannot stop and then look for the open outlet when in trouble in the paint… he must be faster than that. The Kings are closing the paint and the passing lanes once TP stops in the paint… this has led to several TOs that could be avoided. If he commits a turnover or misses a shot when forcing penetration, we should live with it.

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Parker just needs to play better overall. He played great in Game 1. Since then, not so great.

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8) Hit Manu in the head. Then forget about all this “stay within the offense” nonsense. Ask him to be fucking aggressive. Show him the first quarter of game 1, where he blew past by Artest and anyone they put him in front repeatedly. Play pick and roll on the right side with Duncan and Horry and have a couple of open shooter in the perimeter. Let him do his thing.

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Manu really needs to wakeup. I realize that he's being guarded by Artest, by that's not the only thing holding him down. For example, Artest was in foul trouble in the first couple minutes of last night's game. Still, Manu didn't score until late in the second quarter.

Manu had his chances last night. I re-watched the game and he had the ball a lot. He was just playing scared. Spurs fans whining that it was Tony Parker who took him out of the offense need to re-watch that game. Manu had the ball and he was either not attacking or making lazy cross court passes. It was pathetic.

Tape 1 to sleep over: rebounding, rebounding, rebounding, ...

Tape 2 to sleep over: aggressive, aggressive, aggressive, ...

If you are going to double team, no more of these pansy double teams. Both players need to body up and make the player fight just to pass the ball.

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Originally Posted by timvp

Yeah, this is the main key. One problem is Bruce is trying to front Wells and then Wells gets every freaking offensive rebound. That is a dumb tactic by Bowen. You can't front him because the Kings have been great at passing it over him and getting an easy layup ... or if they miss a shot Wells gets the rebound.

I want to see more fight out of Bruce. Sac up, play behind Wells and don't let him dominate on the glass.

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Agree... he just need to play him from behind and box out. Bruce doesn't need to go for the rebound when playing with Rasho and TD. Let them take the rebound. He just have to box out Bonzi, that's all. Put the body in front of him and sac up.

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I still think Duncan on SARS is a good matchup for the Spurs. Duncan just needs to stay on his feet and not go for all his pump fakes. The Duncan I've watched over the last decade has owned SARS. I don't know what happened.

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Which is why I said it is so painful to admit this, but in the last two games I've seen SAR dominate Tim when attacking the basket :depressed

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PUT ROBERT FVCKING HORRY ON HIM

Look back at the first half of Game 4. With Horry on Wells, Wells didn't do crap. No rebounds, no points, no nothing.

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If Bruce cannot handle him, Rob is a good alternative.

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Yeah, they gotta run. Parker on the break can finish over anyone on this team. Manu needs to get out there running too.

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No disagreements here.

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I want to see two plays in the halfcourt:

Four Down
or
Manu and Duncan pick-and-roll

That's it.

[motion offense]
Nah, I'd rather just run some more Four Down.

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I think the Spurs must mix it up a bit. The Kings are defending those two plays quite well, but they were completely cluless in game 1, 2, and 4 (almost no movement on game 3) when the Spurs start using multiple screens to free their perimeter players. In almost all the cases I saw, the Spurs ended up freeing a player for a high quality shot.

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Parker just needs to play better overall. He played great in Game 1. Since then, not so great.

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He should avoid taking jumpers at all costs. He must keep penetrating and finishing at the rim. If in trouble, kick it fast to the open outlet. The Kings are not buying his hesitation move in the paint, and they are blocking the passing lanes once he is in the paint under the trees. He must not think, he has to know in his mind what to do beforehand. He should also hit a cutter from time to time.

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Manu really needs to wakeup. I realize that he's being guarded by Artest, by that's not the only thing holding him down. For example, Artest was in foul trouble in the first couple minutes of last night's game. Still, Manu didn't score until late in the second quarter.

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I completely agree. He was guarded by Martin in the first quarter, and he looked hesitant. He should have taken it to the hole the entire way. I couldn't believe it.



You can always count on some old school to discuss basketball :smokin

Nice job timvp :fro

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Originally Posted by wildbill2u

Why not try a zone defense that would leave out bigs inside to deal with Bonzi instead of letting him post up our smaller bodied guards?

Maybe a box and one with Parker chasing Bibby outside.

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The zone. The same what I was telling the oprevious game. It may work but still I do not know hopw much did they practice the zone. Plus the lineup og Manu, Bowen, Robert, Tim Rasho, Or Parker instead of Bowen.

The pluses of the zone is that the Artests and Wellses will have to go through our bigs. Make them shoot. The Kings can shoot but can they adapt to the zone? They can't shoot all the time? (but all in all I do not want zone all the time and we can't play our bigs for the most of the game). Adventage of the zone - rebouinding is easier cause the boxout is a normal thing when you play good zone.

The minus of using that tactic is taht it will be a problem with running and pushing the ball as much as they used to with a small ball lineup.

Still away from the rebound - the ball and players movenment is crytical.

Bonzi might break all time records for offensive rebounding if the Spurs go to a zone.

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Originally Posted by timvp

Bonzi might break all time records for offensive rebounding if the Spurs go to a zone.

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You kiddin right?

Is Shareef really that much of a problem? I agree in game 2 he really torched us, but since then Duncan's outscored him like 46 to 8, as well as getting him into some early foul trouble...

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Originally Posted by Winnipeg_Spur

Is Shareef really that much of a problem? I agree in game 2 he really torched us, but since then Duncan's outscored him like 46 to 8, as well as getting him into some early foul trouble...

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he comes off the bench. how much scoring do you think he will do?

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Originally Posted by RON ARTEST

he comes off the bench. how much scoring do you think he will do?

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That was mostly a response to this:

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Originally Posted by Rick Von Braun

Which is why I said it is so painful to admit this, but in the last two games I've seen SAR dominate Tim when attacking the basket

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umm... how would putting horry on wells help you? that would leave manu to guard artest the entire game or bowen if manu is benched... then the kings can just run a pick and have bowen back on wells.... maybe parker should try going for 40 points instead.... with horry duncan and rasho playing at the same time miller will be hitting open jumpers all night....

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Originally Posted by AriesMar27

umm... how would putting horry on wells help you?

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If you prevent Bonzi getting offensive rebounds, you solve 50% of the problem right there.

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Originally Posted by AriesMar27

that would leave manu to guard artest the entire game or bowen if manu is benched... then the kings can just run a pick and have bowen back on wells.... maybe parker should try going for 40 points instead.... with horry duncan and rasho playing at the same time miller will be hitting open jumpers all night....

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Manu was guarding Artest the last game and he wasn't doing much. I am not afraid of Miller either. Bottom line, the Spurs rebound better, they win the game.

Key to winning the game:

GRAB THE @*$^(%! REBOUNDS

Anything else is whether we want to just win or whether we want to humiliate them.

I posted this before the series started, let's see how the Spurs have gone in what I thought were a couple of subtle, yet key areas --

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Please box out Bonzi Wells. He will murder you on the offensive rebounds and is incredibly tough down low. I worry about whoever matches up on him, if he takes Manu down low he could really be a huge contributer. (I knew this would be a problem for the Spurs, which is why it was the first thing that popped into my head. They still haven't addressed this. I would like to see Horry and Tim play some minutes on him, and for Bruce to play behind him and receive help. Fronting is just stupid.)

Make Mike Bibby make shots in the lane off of Pick N Rolls. Realise that whenever he goes left, its for a jumpshot. I'd be down for some full court pressure on him too. He's going to be busy down one end defending Tony, so make him exert more energy just bringing the ball up, anything to make his legs more fatigued for those jumpshots. (I haven't seen much presure on Bibby, I would like to see some for the reasons mentioned above. Overall though, solid job on containing Bibby.)

Similar thing with Brad Miller, don't give him the jumpshots make him go right where he often runs into trouble. He loves the top of the key jumpshot, so contest that heavily. He doesn't like to jump, so challenge every rebound around him hard. Take the ball at him hard too, he isn't much of a shotblocker. (Spurs have stopped taking the ball at him, which is just incredible because he is a weak interior defender. Upto Game 4 he wasn't hitting shit, and was a non factor basically. Good job by the Spurs, for the main.)

Back off Artest. If a defender gives just enough room to Artest to confuse him on whether he should drive or shoot, he often just stands there dominating the ball and stagnating the offense. Don't try and block his shots either, because he is so strong he goes right up through the defender and draws the foul.(Unbelievably, the Spurs are letting him get at the hoop. Since he hurt his hand, he has been TERRIBLE on jumpshots, but the Spurs continue to let him take them to the hoop and not give him the J. For the life of me, I can't understand it)

Don't forget about Abdur-Rahim. Sure he is a perennial loser and has never played a playoff game his whole career, but that makes him an X-Factor. He has a habit of playing well against the Spurs and Timmy, so pay attention to him. He likes to use his quickness on Timmy and also to take him out on the floor, but also has a solid post game. I wouldn't mind seeing a shorter but quicker defender on him sometimes, even if they give up height. Finley or Bruce would be alright. (SARS has been good against Tim for the last 2 seasons or so, but he hans't done a lot this series. He did have that one great game, but other than that very little. Rasho has particuly done a nice job on him, so kudos to the coaching staff for that one.)

That's mainly defensive type stuff, everyone knows what the Spurs are about offensively. Penetration from Manu and Tony, spot up shooting from Finley, Van Exel, Barry, Bowen, Horry, Udrih to go along with a steady diet of Timmy on the block. The Kings are unable to take the Spurs out of this for a whole series, so most offensive struggles will just be on the Spurs, not neccassarily anything the Kings are doing (within reason).(Games 1 and 2 were fine for the Spurs offensively, but Manu and Tony have had a harder time penetrating and its bogging the offense down and taking the ball out of the hands of the guys we want the ball with. More pick and roll, more 4 down please. The bench has been great, no worries there.)

Overall I see the Spurs winning in 6, possibly 5, with all the games being relatively close. I think the Spurs will do there annual "lose an early playoff game at home" bullshit, but then fight there way out of. Like 2003 and 2005, this team is better than an 8 seed and will prove a tough out, but I think that is the best way for the Spurs to get warmed up for the real deal. ( I still expect the Spurs to win in 6, but I did think they would win one of Game 3/4 and lose an early one at home. This tough series will help the Spurs prepare for future battles in the playoffs as long as they pull this series out, and should leave them well equipped to handle the Mavs. Kings could actually turn out to be tougher than the Mavs.)

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Nice job, MI21.

Good stuff.

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Originally Posted by MI21

I posted this before the series started, let's see how the Spurs have gone in what I thought were a couple of subtle, yet key areas --

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Nice call MI21... you were right on target.

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Originally Posted by polandprzem

The zone. ...Adventage of the zone - rebouinding is easier cause the boxout is a normal thing when you play good zone.

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Well, maybe when you are good at it. But it's common knowledge that zones are leakier than man on man for rebounding: since you're not focusing on one man on D, it's EASIER for the offense to get in for boards. It's just a built-in weakness of the zone, like the fact that it leaves outside shooters more open.

Even so, I agree that if we were good at it it would be a good tactic. But I don't believe the Spurs play/practice this enough to throw on a zone and make it effective at this point.

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Originally Posted by ManuTastic

Well, maybe when you are good at it. But it's common knowledge that zones are leakier than man on man for rebounding: since you're not focusing on one man on D, it's EASIER for the offense to get in for boards. It's just a built-in weakness of the zone, like the fact that it leaves outside shooters more open.

Even so, I agree that if we were good at it it would be a good tactic. But I don't believe the Spurs play/practice this enough to throw on a zone and make it effective at this point.

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i don't think we should go zone for the whole game, but we have done it before this season in spots, sometime with great success - i remember we threw some zone out on the clippers in the first half of the last game we played with them, and they were totally thrown off by it. we didn't play it much the rest of the game but it was enough to keep them guessing.

[QUOTE=Rick Von Braun]
Ofense:

1) Run.

2) Run some more.

3) I want Manu, Finley and Bones running with TP the fast break. Both Artest and Bonzi are slower than our perimeter players. Furthermore, because of the type of offense they use (switched inside out), their SGs and SFs are usually deeper in the opposite side of the court. Their bigs are closer to their basket, but they cannot possibly keep up with our perimeter players. While the Kings are making the effort to prevent transition baskets, they are not a great defensive team in transition. It has been mostly the inability of the Spurs to get into the running game. I think Pop wants this, but the players have not responded.

Amen. Spurs have one of the best lineups EVER to be a running team. The Dump It To Tim and Stand Around Offense again threatens a Spurs title. Even if the Kings have a great game, our running game is better. There is NO shame in winning 120-112. Do it Pop, and do it NOW!

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Originally Posted by ManuTastic

Well, maybe when you are good at it. But it's common knowledge that zones are leakier than man on man for rebounding: since you're not focusing on one man on D, it's EASIER for the offense to get in for boards. It's just a built-in weakness of the zone, like the fact that it leaves outside shooters more open.

Even so, I agree that if we were good at it it would be a good tactic. But I don't believe the Spurs play/practice this enough to throw on a zone and make it effective at this point.

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Play good zone and you are controlling the boards. when they are making J's you you are focusing at everybody and you are not letting them move toward basket you closing the basket cause you making the line.
But maybe I'm stupid, maybe I don't know shit.

btw. I was taking only about the streatches with this D.

Zone defense should be used more often. This could help controlling the boards, because otherwise Miller takes one of our big guys away from the basket and the other one is left alone under the rim.

The Kings tried to slow the game down with every possession last night. The Spurs put together a good effort on the boards last night. They do need to go to some kind of zone in Game 6. Miller dragging TD 20 feet from the rim is not conducive to playing Spurs Basketball.

Parker hit his jumpshots in crunch time.

Timmy even said at the post-game conference that the Spurs will live with Parker taking wide-open 15-18 footers.

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Originally Posted by A-Train

The Kings tried to slow the game down with every possession last night. The Spurs put together a good effort on the boards last night. They do need to go to some kind of zone in Game 6. Miller dragging TD 20 feet from the rim is not conducive to playing Spurs Basketball.

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Exactly. They are reversing the usual plan of attack by putting their big men on the perimeter to draw out TD and our center and then putting their guard/sf players inside to muscle up on our smaller guys.

The zone would relieve some of that pressure and I'd rather have B. Miller beat us with threes over Ginobilli than Bonzi grabbing everything off the glass and stuffing it back in.

It's amazing that a great analysis thread has only 28 posts while Mouse's everyday tactic of counter-mojo goes two pages (I keep my thread/page count on 40).

Bravo...Rick, LJ, MI.