It's not looking good for Amare

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/suns...unsnb1027.html

I really feel bad for the guy (and for Suns fans).

Stoudemire feels doubted by team

Bob Young
The Arizona Republic
Oct. 27, 2006 12:00 AM

The pain has returned to Amaré Stoudemire's surgically repaired knees, and he said after Thursday's practice that he doesn't believe the Suns organization has complete confidence that he'll be the same player he was before the injuries.

"I don't think so," Stoudemire said when asked about the team's belief in his full recovery. "I think they're waiting on me to show them. It's up to me to get back there."

Coach Mike D'Antoni said Stoudemire did "almost everything" in practice Thursday but is still "a little stiff here and there."
advertisement

"You have to ask him more than me," D'Antoni said. "He looked OK. He didn't play a whole lot. He looks a little better. He's getting a little more athletic."

Stoudemire was able to do more than he did on Wednesday, and said he has had "sharp" pain in the knees the past two days. He reiterated what he said during the team's training camp in Italy - that he's going to need recovery days to recuperate. He said his recent setback is similar to what he experienced in Europe after going hard for "seven or eight days in a row."

He said that during the past couple of weeks he hasn't taken a day off except when the whole team was off.

He also said that during the season when the Suns play back-to-back games, he might need a recovery day at practice. Whether he gets the blessing of D'Antoni and the Suns organization remains to be seen.

"I haven't talked to them yet, but I definitely hope so," Stoudemire said.

But Stoudemire sounded as if he believes he has the support of the team.

"I hope so," he said. "I'm definitely doing whatever I can. . . . Whatever they've asked me to do; I'm definitely doing it. I pushed through the pain pretty much the whole practice."

but, but Amarelooms...or maybe not, hahahahahahaha....i don't feel bad for him, he should've waited before changing that number to ONE!

Looks like Amare won't be looming any. :oops

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Amarelooms

Amare LOOMS my friend...be afraid...be very afraid. :elephant

---

:lol :lol

How Many Times Did Cbf Scoff You Who Said He Was Ready I Saaaaaaaaaiiiiiidddddddddddd

I feel sorry for Amare and hope these are just early setbacks for him. It'd be such a shame to see talent like his wasted by injury. Same happened to Antonio McDyess - but for his injuries, he was going to be a HoFer.

I think Amare is going to get back to where he was because he is so young but it may not be this year. This injury he had is very serious, he will be the player he once was in time.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dbreiden83080

I think Amare is going to get back to where he was because he is so young but it may not be this year. This injury he had is very serious, he will be the player he once was in time.

---

With this surgery, it doesn't matter how young or old you are. The effect on your lift is devastating, and it never comes back. If he works very hard on fundamentals like positioning, footwork, and blocking out, he can be a good NBA pivot, but make no mistake: he's never going to be the Amare that scared the daylights out of opposing coaches and players, ever again.

That sucks. Stoudemire has been one of my favorites in the league since he came in. McDyess was another guy I loved when he was on the Clippers, Nuggets, and Suns, and I feel really bad for Suns fans and true NBA fans in general to see it happen twice. McDyess's injuries were such a blow to the sport, and if it happens with Amare it'll be twice as bad. I really want to see him back at that level where he was dropping 37 a night on the champs in the 2005 WCF. I love beating the Suns (especially after 93), but I want the Spurs to beat them at relatively full strength, like in 05.

McDyess was Amare. He was the same highlight reel dunk, poor rebounding fool. In fact, he was a worse rebounder than Amare, averaging only a shade over 7 for his first three seasons. He worked hard on evolving his game. He has averaged about 6 boards over the last 3 seasons in about 22 minutes, a real good rate. He also mastered a money baseline jumper. Those two things are what is keeping him in the league. He's become an effective player in managed minutes (22-23 pg), and shot over 50% in B2B seasons for the first time in his career with Detroit these last 2 seasons. He's never going to be that same player that he was, though. I believe his injury happened after his tour de force 00-01 season, and he would have been about 26. He tried to come back and play at the end of the 01-02 season, and he played 10 games, but he sat the entire 02-03 season.

Any of you who think Amare is coming all the way back need to look at McDyess as a best case scenario. It sucks for the Suns because they just shelled out all that jack for him, and if he's able to play 82 games at 30 minute per, it'll be a miracle.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by baseline bum

That sucks. Stoudemire has been one of my favorites in the league since he came in. McDyess was another guy I loved when he was on the Clippers, Nuggets, and Suns, and I feel really bad for Suns fans and true NBA fans in general to see it happen twice. McDyess's injuries were such a blow to the sport, and if it happens with Amare it'll be twice as bad. I really want to see him back at that level where he was dropping 37 a night on the champs in the 2005 WCF. I love beating the Suns (especially after 93), but I want the Spurs to beat them at relatively full strength, like in 05.

---

Well said, sir.

You too Zunni.

Always nice to read the words of ol' skool NBA junkies. :fro

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zunni

Any of you who think Amare is coming all the way back need to look at McDyess as a best case scenario. It sucks for the Suns because they just shelled out all that jack for him, and if he's able to play 82 games at 30 minute per, it'll be a miracle.

---

It seems that at this point, just getting anywhere close to 50 games from Amare would be a miracle.

amare probably will have to learn how to use other skills than the sheer raw physicality and athleticism if the injury doesn't permit him to return to 2005 form.

It will be a hard road once he realizes that those overwhelming physical skills are no longer there at such a young age. It will take mental toughness instead of the physical ability that almost carried him to the top of his profession.

Truly sucks but it looks like Amare might well be going the way of Ralph Sampson and Jonathan Bender. He already has chronic arthritis in his "good" knee.

It's not good, in fact in the one preseason game I saw him in he looked like he was favoring his knee big time. And the most noticeable part of his game that is missing is his explosiveness. In last nights pre game show, Jamaal Mashburn said that his explosiveness never recovered from that kind of surgery and that he had to make major adjustments to his game. Amare is still young enough to have a good career, but he will have to come to grips with his limitations, and for a guy who at one time seemed unstoppable and with a sky's the limit future, this may be the hardest thing for him to deal with. The mental part.

Quote:

---

, Jamaal Mashburn said that his explosiveness never recovered from that kind of surgery and that he had to make major adjustments to his game

---

Thats funny, I thought he had the surgery and never came back.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by wildbill2u

amare probably will have to learn how to use other skills than the sheer raw physicality and athleticism if the injury doesn't permit him to return to 2005 form.

It will be a hard road once he realizes that those overwhelming physical skills are no longer there at such a young age. It will take mental toughness instead of the physical ability that almost carried him to the top of his profession.

---

That's really tough.

It's very unfortunate, hopefully his heart and tenacity makes up for it in the long run, but to be in that position where your talent is limited by an unfortunate injury, it just seems so hard to swallow..

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zunni

With this surgery, it doesn't matter how young or old you are. The effect on your lift is devastating, and it never comes back. If he works very hard on fundamentals like positioning, footwork, and blocking out, he can be a good NBA pivot, but make no mistake: he's never going to be the Amare that scared the daylights out of opposing coaches and players, ever again.

---

You can't say that with certainity. Odds are against him yes, but he can overcome them. I saw story on ESPN about WR Steve Smith of the Panthers. This guy a few years ago, broke his leg in multiple places and doctors told him no way he ever plays again. Not only did he come back but he is the most dominant and explosive WR in the NFL right now. Odds are against Amare but i doubt that he has no shot to get back to where he was.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dbreiden83080

You can't say that with certainity. Odds are against him yes, but he can overcome them. I saw story on ESPN about WR Steve Smith of the Panthers. This guy a few years ago, broke his leg in multiple places and doctors told him no way he ever plays again. Not only did he come back but he is the most dominant and explosive WR in the NFL right now. Odds are against Amare but i doubt that he has no shot to get back to where he was.

---

A broken leg, especially in multiple places, is serious. However, it in no way approaches a bone on bone knee in a game where major amounts of constant jumping are required. I'm also not enamoured of the fact that the front office and D'Antoni have already had to confront Amare about his rehab efforts. The combination of the generally accepted surgery and recovery prognosis, and his lackadaisical rehab efforts are what is driving my serious doubts about his level of recovery. Steve Smith is a warrior, but Amare seems to think people should feel sorry for him. Guess what? Few people will. He's got a huge guaranteed contract, so he's financially set for life. Staying in the league past this contract and being an effective player is all up to him.

There goes my prediction of the Suns as World Champs and Amare as MVP for the next three years running... :lol

Diaw must be pretty happy right now to get a permanent starting job

Yeah I am sure diaw is jumping up and down that a friend of his is hurt and it is going to hurt the suns chances at the ring
diaw wanted to get paid
he is now so I am not sure why he would be happy
there was talk amare would come off the bench anyhow

I'm new here but came over from (koff)SR(koff) where I have been consistently posting since Amare had his surgery last year and all the commentators were creaming their jeans over his return and how dominant the Suns would be...

that Amare would never, ever become anything close to the player he was.

My reasoning was:

1) he is almost completely dependent on his athleticism, specifically his explosive leaping ability, for his game

2) he doesn't have anything close to an all-around game -- he is, surprisingly, a poor rebounder and defender -- his shot-blocking mostly comes off of help defense

3) he doesn't seem to have the maturity or attitude necessary to do the incredibly hard work necessary to (a) rehab and (b) retool his game in other areas

Specifically, I said he would become an average NBA starter and never be at an all-star caliber again. (That doesn't mean he won't be voted all-star by stupid fans.)

Now, it looks like all this is starting to come true, sadly.

This is a shame for any NBA fan... wow the suns are stupid.....

Amare's got many years to find his athleticism again before he is too old. I think eventually he will get back to close what he was but not this year.

If Amare was a fundamentally sound player who didn't rely on pure athletic ability to be successful he could come back from these injuries. Unfortunately for him - he's the exact opposite of that and relies solely on his athletic ability. Therefore, he's screwed.

He is not screwed

how do you know he won't get back to what the old amare was? he has enough time to do so.

how about people judge him when he actually plays enough games through the regular season? it is idiotic to call him done when the freaking season hasn't even started yet. There is plenty of time for him to find his feet

he shouldn't be even judged until at least the all-star break...NO SOONER

Get off amare's back and give him the chance to prove himself

suns need him ready for the playoffs...give him the time for that to happen where he can help get them a title shot.

Do you even know the type of injuries this guy has had to his knees? Those injuries have made otherwise healthy players RETIRE. Amare is young - but with his knees in such bad shape he will never be anywhere near as athletic as he was - especially on a consistent basis. At best he will have flashes of ability - at worst he will be a complete dud from here on out. I don't have to see anything - just knowing what happened to both of this guy's knees tell me all I need to know. He was an undersized player who made up for it with freakish athletic ability. Now he won't have that anymore - what else can he do? He can't shoot. He can't rebound. He can't defend. What can he do??

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BeerIsGood!

If Amare was a fundamentally sound player who didn't rely on pure athletic ability to be successful he could come back from these injuries. Unfortunately for him - he's the exact opposite of that and relies solely on his athletic ability. Therefore, he's screwed.

---

Exactly

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BeerIsGood!

Do you even know the type of injuries this guy has had to his knees? Those injuries have made otherwise healthy players RETIRE. Amare is young - but with his knees in such bad shape he will never be anywhere near as athletic as he was - especially on a consistent basis. At best he will have flashes of ability - at worst he will be a complete dud from here on out. I don't have to see anything - just knowing what happened to both of this guy's knees tell me all I need to know. He was an undersized player who made up for it with freakish athletic ability. Now he won't have that anymore - what else can he do? He can't shoot. He can't rebound. He can't defend. What can he do??

---

His injury and surgery was serious but to he will never be as athletic is not confirmed as really amare has been getting up quite high in pre-season and considering he is not back to normal yet his knees didn't look too bad to me.

yes some guys have never been the same because of the surgery but guess what? none of them were as young as amare...

undersized? on what planet is 6'11 undersized? is duncan undersized? seeing as how he is basically one inch taller than amare...big difference hey

can't shoot? i remember amare being very consistant from 15 feet in the 04 playoffs..wasn't just pure dunks....9 rebounds a game means he can't rebound? ok

amare needs time..that is all really

saying he is done is foolish to say the least

I'm not saying Amare is done. But his condition is definitely worrisome. They are talking about him having a second surgery in that same knee, chronic arthritis in his other knee, etc.

He's in a lot of pain trying to come back and they shouldn't rush him if they want him to have a chance to return to form. The odds are against him because his game is based on his athleticism, but perhaps if he takes his rehab a little slower and doesn't rush then he has a chance to get back.

Chronic osteoathritis is a chronic, progressive disease. There is no return to normal from chronic osteoarthritis.

I wonder who advised him to get the micro-fracture surgery since there hasn't been 1 player that came back to be even 80% of what they used to be. Easy to 2nd guess now I suppose but there where examples, why try to be the guy to buck the trend?

they need to let the guy rest and stop trying to force him back. If he needs a year off sobeit. No substitute for rest.

jason kidd cameback to be just as good as before

Jason Kidd didn't have this happen to his knees. Especially both of his knees. I know you love Amare, but face it - the Amare you knew is dead. He's gone and never coming back. The only hope he has is to really devote himself to fundamental play and develop a complete low post game. I don't know how that kind of player fits into the Suns system, but he has no other choice. Those knees will not hold up under the kind of pounding they did before his injuries.

For the medically inclined.

A prospective randomized clinical study of mosaic osteochondral autologous transplantation versus microfracture for the treatment of osteochondral defects in the knee joint in young athletes.Gudas R, Kalesinskas RJ, Kimtys V, Stankevicius E, Toliusis V, Bernotavicius G, Smailys A.
Department of Orthopaedics and Trauma, Kaunas University Hospital, Kaunas, Lithuania. [email protected]

PURPOSE: The purpose of this study was to compare the outcomes of mosaic-type osteochondral autologous transplantation (OAT) and microfracture (MF) procedures for the treatment of the articular cartilage defects of the knee joint in young active athletes. TYPE OF STUDY: Prospective randomized clinical study. METHODS: Between 1998 and 2002, a total of 60 athletes with a mean age of 24.3 years (range, 15 to 40 years) and with a symptomatic lesion of the articular cartilage in the knee were randomized to undergo either an OAT or an MF procedure. Only those athletes playing in competitive sports at regional or national levels were included in the study. Fifty-seven athletes (95%) were available for a follow-up. There were 28 athletes in the OAT group and 29 athletes in the MF group. The mean duration of symptoms was 21.32 +/- 5.57 months and the mean follow-up was 37.1 months (range, 36 to 38 months), and none of the athletes had prior surgical interventions to the affected knee. Patients were evaluated using modified Hospital for Special Surgery (HSS) and International Cartilage Repair Society (ICRS) scores, radiograph, magnetic resonance imaging (MRI), and clinical assessment. An independent observer performed a follow-up examination after 6, 12, 24, and 36 months. At 12.4 months postoperatively, arthroscopy with biopsy for histologic evaluation was carried out. A radiologist and a pathologist, both of whom were blinded to each patient's treatment, did the radiologic and histologic evaluations. RESULTS: After 37.1 months, both groups had significant clinical improvement (P < .05). According to the modified HSS and ICRS scores, functional and objective assessment showed that 96% had excellent or good results after OAT compared with 52% for the MF procedure (P < .001). At 12, 24, and 36 months after surgery, the HSS and ICRS showed statistically significantly better results in the OAT group (P = .03; P = .006; P = .006). Younger athletes did better in both groups. No serious complications were reported. There was 1 failure in the OAT group and 9 in the MF group. The ICRS Cartilage Repair Assessment for macroscopic evaluation during arthroscopy at 12.4 months showed excellent or good repairs in 84% after OAT and in 57% after MF. Biopsy specimens were obtained from 58% of the patients and histologic evaluation of repair showed better scores (according to ICRS) for the OAT group (P < .05). MRI evaluation showed excellent or good repairs in 94% after OAT compared with 49% after MF. Twenty-six (93%) OAT patients and 15 (52%) MF patients returned to sports activities at the preinjury level at an average of 6.5 months (range, 4 to 8 months). Others showed a decline in sports activity level. CONCLUSIONS: At an average of 37.1 months (range, 36 to 38 months) follow-up, our prospective, randomized, clinical study in young active athletes under the age of 40 has shown significant superiority of OAT over MF for the repair of articular cartilage defects in the knee. We found that only 52% of MF athletes could return to sports at the preinjury level. Limitations of our study included a small number of athletes and a relatively short (3-year) follow-up. A long-term follow-up is needed to assess the durability of articular cartilage repair using these methods in young active athletes. LEVEL OF EVIDENCE: Level I, Therapeutic study, randomized controlled trial, significant difference (a).



http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...arch&DB=pubmed

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BeerIsGood!

Jason Kidd didn't have this happen to his knees. Especially both of his knees. I know you love Amare, but face it - the Amare you knew is dead. He's gone and never coming back. The only hope he has is to really devote himself to fundamental play and develop a complete low post game. I don't know how that kind of player fits into the Suns system, but he has no other choice. Those knees will not hold up under the kind of pounding they did before his injuries.

---

Jason Kidd did have microfracture surgery on his knee. (I don't know exactly if you are saying he didn't. I didn't understand really what this meant: "Jason Kidd didn't have this happen to his knees") But he didn't come back totally the same. I can't think of any player who has. Maybe Zach Randolph has so far, but his game doesn't rely on athleticism like Amare's. But the list of players who were never the same is really long (Penny, CWebb, Mashburn, etc).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kori Ellis

Jason Kidd did have microfracture surgery on his knee. (I don't know exactly if you are saying he didn't. I didn't understand really what this meant: "Jason Kidd didn't have this happen to his knees") But he didn't come back totally the same. I can't think of any player who has. Maybe Zach Randolph has so far, but his game doesn't rely on athleticism like Amare's. But the list of players who were never the same is really long (Penny, CWebb, Mashburn, etc).

---

I know he had the surgery on a knee, but he didn't and doesn't have the chronic problems on both knees. Some people are acting like he just got injured recently - he hasn't been anywhere near healthy in over a year, and is now having chronic arthritis and pain in the knees. That just doesn't go away, so I see no way that he could recover to a point that his knees would be able to sustain the pounding necessary to perform the athletic feats he did in the '05 playoffs. Notice I never said that he is done as a player, just done as the player that he once was. If his knees allow - he will have the opportunity to rebuild his game to include more fundamental low post play based on positioning rather than pure athletic ability. I don't know if he will be able to do this, and even if he does what use that kind of a player will be to the run and gun Suns. I don't think his career is over, just his style of play. The days of the run and gun beast Amare are now over.

guess we will have to wait and see

to say he won't be ever back to what he was is wrong....he may not but he may still...you can not say for sure at this stage

give him time, thats all he needs

if he isn't what he was, all the suns will hope is that he can give them what he has and that still might get them a title...who knows

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by The_Game

jason kidd cameback to be just as good as before

---

Jason Kidd plays his game about 3 inches off the ground, just like Tim. The ones who's careers are ended by this are the high flyers.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by The_Game

jason kidd cameback to be just as good as before

---

Jason Kidd is not near the athlete that he was before. But his biggest strengths that he brings to the game are his size as a PG, and arguably the best court vision in the league. These 2 things do not depend on athletic ability.

Jason Kidd is also one of the most SKILLFUL players in the NBA. Amare is not. He is an athletic freak. Take away any of that athleticism, and he is just another tall guy.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by The_Game

guess we will have to wait and see

to say he won't be ever back to what he was is wrong....he may not but he may still...you can not say for sure at this stage

give him time, thats all he needs

if he isn't what he was, all the suns will hope is that he can give them what he has and that still might get them a title...who knows

---

No, No, No... It is as close to physically impossible as it gets for him to come back 100% or even 90% athletically. It won't happen. Only the graces of GOD himself can bring that kind of miracle. It can't happen and it won't happen.

how on earth would you know? ever had that kind of surgery? you are just GUESSING...you have no clue if he can comeback to be what he was.

you aren't a doctor, if they think he can comeback to what he was. then he can. It's only down to amare..no one else

Once he misses more time this year and can barely get any lift when he is in a game - come back here talk to me. 100%. Won't. Be. Done. Period.

I played college football until I had a bad knee injury and had to have surgery. I know what it feels like - and if 1 year later you can't do anything without pain - that's a very, very bad sign. Never 100% for the rest of his life.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BeerIsGood!

Once he misses more time this year and can barely get any lift when he is in a game - come back here talk to me. 100%. Won't. Be. Done. Period.

---

Thats another IF

reports from friday's practise was amare played without pain. fact is he might feel some pain here and there. who wouldn't after a long lay-off? fact is when he has played he has looked good enough thus far in pre-season but obviously rusty...he has already threw down some nasty dunks already.

not saying he is back or anything but he has showed far more than any other guy who has had the surgery this soon...

it is a wait and see thing with amare

the suns goal is to win a title obviously so they are going to have to wait and maybe with time he can help them get there this year. wether he is the old amare or not

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by The_Game

how on earth would you know? ever had that kind of surgery? you are just GUESSING...you have no clue if he can comeback to be what he was.

you aren't a doctor, if they think he can comeback to what he was. then he can. It's only down to amare..no one else

---

I know you're hoping beyond hope...

I hate to see this happen to a guy given how fun he was to watch...

But the list of guys whose vertical game was ruined by the surgery is long, and the list of guys who returned to previous form is null.

If Amare were going to bounce back, he would have by now. It's been a year. It was supposed to be six months, then nine months. He was supposed to be fine by now. Now he has arthritis in his other knee. The months keep peeling off the calendar. When will he be ready now, January? February? And then he has to get back into shape. 2006-07 is probably a wash.

So now we're talking two full years where Amare is basically out.

You bring up Jason Kidd. Jason Kidd's athleticism was hurt by the surgery. However, Jason Kidd is a cerebral player with a lot of other skills, so he is able to compensate and still be effective. He does not have to play above the rim.

Amare is going to have to learn to be that kind of player, much like Antonio McDyess did.

It doesn't look good. I'm sorry. You can tell us all we're not doctors, but the doctors are 0-for-whatever in bringing superstar players back to previous form following microfracture.

I'm not happy about it. It's bad for the game for this to happen.

As we said at the outset of this thread, Antonio McDyess is probably the best comparison here - a freakishly athletic guy whose knees crapped out on him, who missed 2-3 yrs before adjusting his game to being a high level reserve.

I hope Amare has more luck than McDyess did and is able to return to some semblance of his old ability, but it certainly will require him to change his game and up his skill level to be a productive player.

no one will know until the season starts and we are a couple of months in to be honest...

if he doesn't come back to what he was it is bad for the game...but there's still a good chance he will

you have to hope for the league in general he will

He may be an effective player if he works VERY hard (debatable, since the coach and FO are already calling him out about his rehab) but everyone here can state with certainty that he will NEVER be the same athletically, EVER.
Are you a Dr.? Do you perform this surgery? Do you even know what it is? The knee is essentially bone on bone when the diagnosis is made, so they drill MANY tiny little holes in the facing bone surfaces, and hope for the generation of scar tissue that will do part of the job of the missing cartilage. Can you name one high wire act that came back with full athleticism? No? Then STFU.

I really think Amare doesn't have the head and heart, esp with what we've heard fom the Suns staff in the past few days, to move from being born a very gifted athlete who played at basketball because he could, to a much diminished athlete who must :

1) learn how to be a complete basketball player, learning to play basketball in all its aspects, the fundamentals, with the considerable remains of his talent, while

2) working a long, slow, tortuous, excruciating rehabilitation.

I think it would be funny to poll suns fans now, if they believe Amare's game was pure athleticism...i remmeber when they were a legit rival they all seemed to think he was some sort of complete player.
bah.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by boutons_

I really think Amare doesn't have the head and heart, esp with what we've heard fom the Suns staff in the past few days, to move from being born a very gifted athlete who played at basketball because he could, to a much diminished athlete who must :

1) learn how to be a complete basketball player, learning to play basketball in all its aspects, the fundamentals, with the considerable remains of his talent, while

2) working a long, slow, tortuous, excruciating rehabilitation.

---

Ding ding ding. We have a winner. Only part of this rests on healing, and that will only go so far. The rest is up to him, and it's going to be a mental grind. He's never been known as a gym rat/effort guy.

Oh, and yes, 9 rebounds is SHITTY for someone of his size and athleticism. On a per minute basis for his last pre-surgery season, that isn't much better than Rasho's career rate, .247 to .238. That sucks, and speaks to a general laziness and lack of effort.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by YoMamaIsCallin

I'm new here but came over from (koff)SR(koff) .

---

Welcome. :)

Amare did obviously develop a very nice mid-range jumpshot and somehat improved FTs seen first in 04/05.

In his first 3 years, he didn't improve his RB beyond 9 RB/game. Not a bad number, but he was stuck there, couldn't get into the elite ranks of season double-double.

His ball handling and passing were poor, less the 2 AST/game while 2+ TO/game.

For his size and jumping, he wasn't much of a shot-blocker or defender, although he seemed to like to block Tim's dunks in very dramatic, recorded fashion. :lol

He was primarily a scorer with power dunks and then added a jumper. Not really a complete player, but he could kill you with his scoring in 04/05.

If he can't score with the overwhelming athletic intensity, can he raise the rest of his game to compensate? I wish he could, but I bet he won't.

The jumper was also effective, because players backed off in terror of him driving and posterizing them. I think he'll be played more straight up now. He'll have to work on a quicker release, and possibly a higher release point.

The reason people bring up comparisons is that it is more reliable than a doc's 'Prognosis'. If you pay a doctor enough money, what, you reckon he will say, you have no chance of returning to your former self? The medicos are being optimistic. And 100%, what does that mean? You will be able to walk around without pain and perform everyday tasks? Maybe people who have had microfracture surgery can recover to that level, but I bet there haven't been any orthopaedic surgeons who have played 82 games a year in the NBA.

Hence, the comparisons, Doctors can lie, but statistics tell a more compete story. Yeah yeah, he is young, but isn't it frightening that it happened when he WAS SO YOUNG? To presume a complete recovery is based on the assumption that NOTHING ELSE BAD WILL HAPPEN, but his other knee is already bummed...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by The_Game

if he doesn't come back to what he was it is bad for the game...but there's still a good chance he will

---

I admire your positivity and hope but the chances are not good. IMHO they're pretty slim.
I hope that Amare is already working on his fundamentals.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by picnroll

CONCLUSIONS: At an average of 37.1 months (range, 36 to 38 months) follow-up, our prospective, randomized, clinical study in young active athletes under the age of 40 has shown significant superiority of OAT over MF for the repair of articular cartilage defects in the knee. We found that only 52% of MF athletes could return to sports at the preinjury level. Limitations of our study included a small number of athletes and a relatively short (3-year) follow-up. A long-term follow-up is needed to assess the durability of articular cartilage repair using these methods in young active athletes.

---

Sounds like he should have had the other surgery, not microfracture. :oops

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zunni

He may be an effective player if he works VERY hard (debatable, since the coach and FO are already calling him out about his rehab) but everyone here can state with certainty that he will NEVER be the same athletically, EVER.
Are you a Dr.? Do you perform this surgery? Do you even know what it is? The knee is essentially bone on bone when the diagnosis is made, so they drill MANY tiny little holes in the facing bone surfaces, and hope for the generation of scar tissue that will do part of the job of the missing cartilage. Can you name one high wire act that came back with full athleticism? No? Then STFU.

---

Over the years I had gradual deterioration of the cartilege to the point where I had bone-on-bone in the knee. Came down with a rebound one day and the bones slid off each other with a sound like a breaking branch, stretching the ligaments that held them in place. I can't even begin to tell you how bad that hurts.

I don't see how he will ever be able to regain that athleticism and psychological freedom if the cartilege wasn't replaced, but From one of the other posts, I gather that the type of repair they tried on Amare wasn't the replacement cartilege technique. Too bad.

My mom is a RN and has said that surgeons tend to be optimistic. Usually overly-so. They are extremely ummm ... we'll call it "confident" in their abilities. They have to be, really, you don't start cutting into a person unless you're confident you can make it better. So I don't know that the docs are lying to Amare, they're probably just placing too much faith in their ability to heal. And giving Amare a pretty rosy diagnosis.

When you hear crying like someone is dying, Thats Amare!
I sprang my finger while I was typing, oops! Thats Amare!
So much Hyping but now hes Gryping, now Thats Amare!
I crapped my pants and killed Geraldo, Wait, that doesnt rhyme! THATS AMARE!!