Re: Which sport out of the big 3 is the most difficult to build a title contender?
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Originally Posted by whottt
The path to winning the World Series is not clear...
You can have a line up of all stars and get bounced by a fucking team that has 1/10th of your payroll and no discernible stars...
Even the best managers get clueless...
Which pitcher do you get? Well, getting one isn't enough...you need 3 good ones...which ones are they?
Baseball is the hardest...there's no debate about it...even if you have money, and a high IQ for the game, and all the talent in the world...you have absolutely no gurantees of winning...3 good pitchers might be enough....9 all stars might not.
Everything about baseball is more complicated than the other sports...including winning it's championship.
This is the way it is.
If by complicated you mean lucky, then you have a point. What magic formula did the Cardinals solve to win the World Series? What did the White Sox do last year that solved their World Series woes?
The answer is nothing. The teams got hot. They got some lucky bounces here and there. Any of the top 10 or 15 teams could win a World Series each year if they get hot at the right time.
Same can't be said for the NBA.
Re: Which sport out of the big 3 is the most difficult to build a title contender?
The problem is whottt is a Rangers fan. That'd be like asking a Saints fan if winning the Super Bowl is tough.
He hopped on the Spurs bandwagon after they were winners so this seems like a piece of cake. Those of us who were around for the lean years know how hard it is to win an NBA championship.
:smokin
P.S.
AJ rules.
Re: Which sport out of the big 3 is the most difficult to build a title contender?
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Originally Posted by whottt
Not exactly brain surgery...it's also not brain surgery saying that landing Shaq or Duncan exponentially increases your chances of winning one, and attracting other talented players to your team...
Yeah it's not hard at all to land Duncan or Shaq. Simple. Just get one of those two players and you are set. I don't know why every NBA team doesn't do that.
:sleep
In baseball and football you have to get hot at the right time. You have to get the breaks to go your way. In basketball, usually the best team wins the championship.
And I'm not saying that it makes basketball the better sport. There's a reason why the NFL is so popular. Every year every team's fans go into it knowing that it could be their year. Same could be said for most baseball fans. In the NBA, 80% of the league knows there is no chance they win a title that year.
In that respect, that's a major reason why the NBA could never pass the NFL in ratings and why it'd be tough to have as many hardcore fans as baseball has.
Re: Which sport out of the big 3 is the most difficult to build a title contender?
Baseball is the easiest by a mile. The Diamondbacks, Marlins, Cardinals, White Sox?
These one hit wonders are prime examples of a perfect storm championship within the last few years.
Baseball is also a sport that utilizes much more individual effort than team collaboration. It's a lot harder to win in basketball and football where players have to work together to get the job done.
Sometimes teams just suck and that's why there is a drought.
No matter what the sport, there's still only one winner. Every year a lot of teams will be left out.
Re: Which sport out of the big 3 is the most difficult to build a title contender?
Sorry TimVP, but using the Spurs as an example proves my point...
Adidas question was, how difficult is it to build a championship team from the ground up...
That question assumes that you have an organization with the willingness, desire and means to do so.
That was not the case with the Spurs for many years, buy your own frequent criticisms of Holt, it isn't the case with the Spurs now...it's hasn't been the case with the Clippers for many many years..it wasn't the case with the Mavericks original ownership.
IF you are an organization commited to those things...it doesn't take long at all to field a championship contender.
In the NFL, you can do it one season....
In baseball? You can do everything right, you can have the best players, the biggest payroll, the best coach and still go 40 years without a championship like it's nothing...and I say this not because of the Rangers...but because of the Astros, and the Angels(Gere Autry tried like hell to win a WS in his lifetime), the Astros were the first team to offer a guy a million dollar contract ...and of course there is also the Cubs, and the Red Sox.
If you are a fan of a rich well run team in Basketball...you are likley to see your team win an NBA championship in your lifetime...
In baseball, you'd best be prepared to live a really fucking long time for that statement to be true.
You say it's hard to land players like Tim Duncan and Shaq...
Well, it's not if you're the Los Angeles Lakers....if you are the Lakers all you have to do is say, hey Shaq, want to come play in LA?
Let's not forget Wilt and Kareem...who were also traded.
Or Kobe, who was strongarmed.
And the same could be said for Tim Duncan...because he was almost gone my friend.
And we are lucky Drob was the way he was...
Or he'd have just been picked right up by a team more commited to winning.
Mark Cuban bought the Mavs 6 years ago and turned it into a legit NBA franchise commited to winning...and the fruits of his labor have already borne fruit.
And let's not forget...it's also pretty easy to get those players if you are smart enough to tank the right season.
Baseball is the hardest...98 years and counting. Wake me when the NBA has even been around that long.
Re: Which sport out of the big 3 is the most difficult to build a title contender?
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Originally Posted by timvp
Yeah it's not hard at all to land Duncan or Shaq. Simple. Just get one of those two players and you are set. I don't know why every NBA team doesn't do that.
Yeah...all it takes is tanking the season and winning the lottery.
It's real hard to say...you know, if I could get Shaq, I'd have a prtty good shot at a title.
You can't do that in baseball.
Re: Which sport out of the big 3 is the most difficult to build a title contender?
If you are starting a franchise from rock bottom and have a mediocre budget, your chances are almost zero in the NBA. You could land the "big fish" in the draft, but then being rock bottom doesn't guarantee you the top draft pick. You could be far and away the worst team and pick fourth in the draft. To come from the basement in the NBA is takes a long time and much sweat.
Also that #1 pick, if your lucky to get it, may only get you into mediocrity (T-Wolves come to mind) and in the NBA it is far better to be really bad, then middle of the road.
Coming from the bottom in the NFL means that you get the top pick. Most top picks do work out in the league, though some take a few years. In the NFL direction and a model of what your building is very important. You must keep what the team is to look like in mind. If your building a running team, a QB is not as important, if a passing team, QB would be the top pick. If defense will be your thing, a LB will be the top pick with RB a second choice to run the clock. A team can get to mediocrity faster in the NFL from rock bottom, getting to the super bowl in a single elimination playoff (like the NFL) in never easy.
Starting at the bottom in the MLB means nothing. Draft picks mean very little (Pitchers take years to make their way to the big's). The way is to sign the best players that you can. You sign pitcher after pitcher after pitcher. Three starters and a closer can carry a team through the playoffs ... and the season for that matter ... no hitting required. (2-0; 1-0 games happen in the playoffs)
Teams like the Marlins have shown us this. Most can name some of the pitchers for the Marlins winning teams, but when it comes to batters, the names have no "star power" (Greg Counsel ... maybe it was Craig ... not even sure). In Baseball, you get three starters and a reliever and you can make the post season. If you make the post season and two of the three starters get hot ... your going to win a ring. Bottom to top in Baseball is the easiest.
Re: Which sport out of the big 3 is the most difficult to build a title contender?
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Originally Posted by Dalhoop
If you are starting a franchise from rock bottom and have a mediocre budget, your chances are almost zero in the NBA. You could land the "big fish" in the draft, but then being rock bottom doesn't guarantee you the top draft pick.
Um...you know why there is a lottery?
Because before hte lottery you could tank two years in a row and turn yourself into an NBA finalist.
Really really hard.
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You could be far and away the worst team and pick fourth in the draft. To come from the basement in the NBA is takes a long time and much sweat.
Also that #1 pick, if your lucky to get it, may only get you into mediocrity (T-Wolves come to mind) and in the NBA it is far better to be really bad, then middle of the road.
And the #1 pick in MLB is usually about 2 years away from stepping foot on the the field...if ever.
I agree with you...the draft does nothing to help you win in MLB...
That's not true of basketball....
Drafting one good player can turn you into a playoff team, and usually will, unless the team has zero commitment to winning.
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Starting at the bottom in the MLB means nothing. Draft picks mean very little (Pitchers take years to make their way to the big's). The way is to sign the best players that you can. You sign pitcher after pitcher after pitcher. Three starters and a closer can carry a team through the playoffs ... and the season for that matter ... no hitting required. (2-0; 1-0 games happen in the playoffs)
Oh yeah it's just easy to go out and sign pitching, pitching, pitching and pitch yourself into a World Series...
Sincerely,
Every team in MLB. Including the ones with the 200 million dollar payrolls...
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Teams like the Marlins have shown us this. Most can name some of the pitchers for the Marlins winning teams, but when it comes to batters, the names have no "star power" (Greg Counsel ... maybe it was Craig ... not even sure). In Baseball, you get three starters and a reliever and you can make the post season. If you make the post season and two of the three starters get hot ... your going to win a ring. Bottom to top in Baseball is the easiest.
And teams like the Portland TrailBlazers becoming champions after 7 years of existence have shown us this in basketball...
Teams like the Orlando Magic making the finals after 6 years in the league have shown us this...
Teams like the Hornets making the conference finals after 6-7 years int he league have shown us this.
Teams like the defacto expansion Spurs and Nuggets have shown us this as they made the playoffs their first years in the NBA.
You know...if a team goes 10 years without making the post season in basketballl...something is seriously fucked up with that team.
If a team goes 10 years without doing it in MLB...it's just about typical...
Re: Which sport out of the big 3 is the most difficult to build a title contender?
Pssst...guess which sport holds the record for the shortest amount of time from expansion team to champion...I'll give you a hint...it's 3 years(this is true expansion team, not a merger, charter member or early years of the league winner).
And not only did they win the championship...they ripped off one of the best records in league history while they were doing it.
PWNT, PWNT, PWNT and PWNT. Slice it, dice it, spin it...but PWNT!
Re: Which sport out of the big 3 is the most difficult to build a title contender?
Man you are the only person who can use arguments against yourself and act like you're right.
Re: Which sport out of the big 3 is the most difficult to build a title contender?
Pssst...guess which sport holds the record for the shortest amount of time from expansion team to champion
Re: Which sport out of the big 3 is the most difficult to build a title contender?
Parity in the NFL has made it possibly for any number of teams to win the Super Bowl every year. I'd go with the NBA... only 6 different franchises have won a championship in the last 20 years. During that same time period 11 NFL franchises have won a championship.
When you only have 5 major contributors to your team you don't have as much room for error as when you have 22 contributors.
Re: Which sport out of the big 3 is the most difficult to build a title contender?
Quote:
Originally Posted by whottt
Pssst...guess which sport holds the record for the shortest amount of time from expansion team to champion
My guess is baseball with Florida Marlins who went from woeful to best in the world in a year.
Re: Which sport out of the big 3 is the most difficult to build a title contender?
Nope...the Milwaukee Bucks.
Re: Which sport out of the big 3 is the most difficult to build a title contender?
How can anyone argue that w/o a salary cap that it is easy in MLB to buy talent and therefore win a WS title? Have you not heard of the NY Yankees? Darth Steinbrenner has repeatedly bought the top players in the league and has not won a damn thing since his free-spending started. Of course, since he can outbid anyone in the FA market, that makes the other teams' ability to get good talent that much harder.
Everyone must keep an eye on what ol moneybags is doing and it affects everyone, especially since the draft can often be a complete bust, even for the team with the no. 1 pick.
Anyone who thinks MLB is easiest probably isn't paying much attention. Though I am not prepared to argue they are the hardest, I find it interesting how dismissive some are, especially the ones who have readily admitted in the past that they don't watch baseball.
And before timvp does the predictable "another Rangers fan", I will have you know that I follow several teams in MLB (though I am a Rangers fan through and through) and this is an objective opinion that has nothing to do with the Rangers' suckitude.
Re: Which sport out of the big 3 is the most difficult to build a title contender?
Quote:
Originally Posted by whottt
The NFL is not the hardest...
The oldest team that hasn't won a championship is the Minnesota Vikings, a mere 46 years old...and they've been in 4 SuperBowls.
The longest Championship drought is 59 years by the Cardinals...
There's only one team that has never made the playoffs(The Texans), and they're also the only team that's never made it past the first round.
And there are only 6 teams of 32 that have not played in the Superbowl...Cardinals, Saints, Browns, Jaguars, Titans and Lions....and actually, the Browns have played int he Superbowl. as the Ravens...
3 of those teams...the Lions, Browns, and Cardinals...that everyone thinks of as the perennial losers of the NFL...have 10 NFL Championships between them..
Browns and Lions have 4 apiece and the Cardinals have two.
Football is not the most difficult...in fact after looking at it more closely...it's the easiest. It's an inevitability in the NFL.
The Titans have, indeed, played in the Super Bowl. Lost to the Rams in 2000. This proves your point even more but I just wanted to correct the mistake.
Re: Which sport out of the big 3 is the most difficult to build a title contender?
Yeah...I meant the Texans...thanks.
Re: Which sport out of the big 3 is the most difficult to build a title contender?
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Originally Posted by inagra
hockey
Yup. No question.
Re: Which sport out of the big 3 is the most difficult to build a title contender?
Oh yeah it's just easy to go out and sign pitching, pitching, pitching and pitch yourself into a World Series...
Sincerely,
Every team in MLB. Including the ones with the 200 million dollar payrolls...
Just getting pitching is not going to do it, you have to get the pitching for your team, you have to do a little scouting, not just watch ESPN to find the biggest name to sign. Yankees spend alot of money ... The Yankees win alot too, they have won the most WS. That they didn't this year all you have to do is look at where they are spending the money. They spend most of their payroll on hitting. Their pitchers are old, even their closer is past his prime ... can you name a pitcher on their roster that deserved the money they made this year?
You don't go and sign the bigest name, you sign the best type of pitcher for your team. Case in point would be the Cards, they have pitchers that throw the pitches that tear team can handle. They throw the low sinking strike. If you hit it, most like its a ground ball to the infield, they have gold gloves at those positions.
Drafting one good player can turn you into a playoff team, and usually will, unless the team has zero commitment to winning.
Its not about making the playoffs, its about winning a championship, more then half the teams in the NBA make the playoffs.
Teams like the Orlando Magic making the finals after 6 years in the league have shown us this...
Every now and then you do draft one of the greatest to play the game. It sort of helps.
