New Ways of Spurs Basketball

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Originally Posted by ShoogarBear

Um, because it still hasn't been definitively established that the Spurs offense is "clicking".

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Link to where I said it was? I said the Spurs are averaging 100 points per game. Is that untrue?

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Originally Posted by ShoogarBear

It may be that they are just fattening up on the weak sisters.

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I'm talking about the season in general. I've made no mention of the last three wins in this thread.

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Originally Posted by ShoogarBear

My point was that I'd rather see how they do against decent defensive teams before annointing the dawn of a new age.

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That is not the point of this thread. Re-read the three questions I asked. You are arguing a point that isn't even relevant to this thread.

Answer this:

Could the increased reliance on offense during the regular season cause the Spurs to faulter when it becomes money time?

That's the point of this thread. Not celebrating about how the Spurs are scoring or how they are about to play the legendary Hornets.

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Originally Posted by T Park

:lol

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http://www.edzayas.com/lapdog.JPG

awww hes cute.

I love puppies.

Hey I got a basset hound that needs money donated to help with its sugery, can I forward you the link? :)

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Could the increased reliance on offense during the regular season cause the Spurs to faulter when it becomes money time?

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Yup.

IE

Mavericks, Dallas playoffs 2006.

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Originally Posted by ShoogarBear

:lmao Spurs trash a few patsies and suddenly everyone's happy. That's just as bad as the bridge-jumpers after a loss.

Let's get some perspective. I want to see what they look like when they play the Hornets.

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I don't know what is funnier:

A) That the Hornets got mentioned as some sort of defensive juggernaut capable of telling you exactly how a championship caliber team is playing.

B) That the Spurs play the T'Wolves before the Hornets. A team that is a vastly superior defensive team than the Hornets.

C) That MannyIsGod quoted the post in agreement.

D) That the Hornets lost 94-74 tonight to the Sonics without Ray Allen.

:rollin

94 points to that?

Yikes...

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Originally Posted by timvp

Link to where I said it was? I said the Spurs are averaging 100 points per game. Is that untrue?

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http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/show...2&postcount=39

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Originally Posted by timvp's forgotten quote

But anyways, I fail to see how asking whether the Spurs' offense clicking in the regular season is a good thing got shifted to how the Spurs need to play the Hornets.

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I'm talking about the season in general. I've made no mention of the last three wins in this thread.

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Okay, sure. You would have made the same post if the Spurs hadn't just reeled off three striaght big wins. That had nothing to do with it at all.

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That is not the point of this thread. Re-read the three questions I asked. You are arguing a point that isn't even relevant to this thread.

Answer this:

Could the increased reliance on offense during the regular season cause the Spurs to faulter when it becomes money time?

That's the point of this thread. Not celebrating about how the Spurs are scoring or how they are about to play the legendary Hornets.

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I'm not convinced there's an "increased reliance on the offense". They're scoring more points, but the rules of the league have changed and everybody is scoring more. Nobody who understands statistics would try to draw a straight comparison from 1999 or 2001 stats to today's. It's almost like trying to compare baseball stats across different eras.

When the Spurs beat Phoenix in the 2005 WCF, I don't think that was an "increased reliance on the offense", it was just them adapting to the particular situation. They still won because of their superior defense. It just wasn't reflected in a way that showed itself statistically compared to the rest of the regular season.

What's funny is that you are completely unable to refute any of the stats I've posted. The fact is that the Spurs haven't been playing very good defensive teams, and the only ones in the upcoming weeks that can be considered reasonable defensive teams are the Rockets, Woves, and Hornets.

What's really lame is that your sole point of contention is that I mentioned the Hornets.

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Originally Posted by timvp

D) That the Hornets lost 94-74 tonight to the Sonics without Ray Allen.

:rollin

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Oh, by the way, the Hornets were without Peja, David West, and Bobby Jackson.

Peja and Bobby Jackson out with injuries?

Im so stunned....

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Originally Posted by ShoogarBear

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/show...2&postcount=39

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That was a broad question question being asked by me. IF the offense clicks for the whole season and the Spurs lose their reliance on defense, could that come back to hurt them? That's what I'm axing.

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Originally Posted by ShoogarBear

Okay, sure. You would have made the same post if the Spurs hadn't just reeled off three striaght big wins. That had nothing to do with it at all.

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My questions don't even apply to the last three games. The Spurs defense has been very good in that stretch. I didn't know I had to wait until after certain games to question the Spurs' ability to be ready for the playoffs.

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Originally Posted by ShoogarBear

I'm not convinced there's an "increased reliance on the offense". They're scoring more points, but the rules of the league have changed and everybody is scoring more. Nobody who understands statistics would try to draw a straight comparison from 1999 or 2001 stats to today's. It's almost like trying to compare baseball stats across different eras.

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My only point in bringing up offense is in that a potent offense can overshadow a poor and untested defense. I apologize for pointing out the Spurs are averaging over 100 points per game since that really had nothing to do with this thread.

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Originally Posted by ShoogarBear

When the Spurs beat Phoenix in the 2005 WCF, I don't think that was an "increased reliance on the offense", it was just them adapting to the particular situation. They still won because of their superior defense. It just wasn't reflected in a way that showed itself statistically compared to the rest of the regular season.

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That's what I'm asking. Do you see that level of defense?

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Originally Posted by ShoogarBear

What's funny is that you are completely unable to refute any of the stats I've posted.

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What stats? That the Hornets are a pretty good defensive team? That the league is scoring more this year? I'm not refuting those stats because that has nothing to do with my questions.

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Originally Posted by ShoogarBear

The fact is that the Spurs haven't been playing very good defensive teams, and the only ones in the upcoming weeks that can be considered reasonable defensive teams are the Rockets, Woves, and Hornets.

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So your stance is that the Spurs' offense really isn't that good so no one should worry about not having a battle tested defense heading into the postseason? I assume that is what you are getting to.

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Originally Posted by ShoogarBear

Oh, by the way, the Hornets were without Peja, David West, and Bobby Jackson.

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Okay. I will tell Bob Hill to hold off on planning the championship parade.

:smokin

I quoted Shoog because I don't believe in our new offense yet. I honestly didn't see his listing the Hornets in the group, but I think the overall point is valid. I know you were questioning everything yourself, but I didn't feel Shoog was necessarily addressing you although after following the rest of the thread I may have missed the point there.

Anyhow, I don't think a team has to lead the league in defense in order to win a championship. Defense is obviously a must, but you don't have to be the best in the league if your offense is one of the better offenses in the league. I can't be sold on this offense because of the inconsistencies of some of its players in the past. But when everything clicks, the Spurs are without a doubt very very very potent.

I think the biggest factor in the early season success is none other than Brent Barry. When he's playing well I think he's the smartest offensive player the Spurs have. He does an incredible job getting others involved. Manu does much of this as well and to a lesser degree Beno does as well when he's rolling.

The question remains as to how well Barry will play in the coming months. Even those who think he's capable of playing at this level the entire year (and I do believe he is) have to believe that he will go through a slump at some point. And when he does, its going to be interesting to see how Pop reacts. Will he bench him and limit his play for the rest of the year or will he try to ride it out ala Finley?

You excel so well at putting words in my mouth, perhaps it would be quicker to just have you type my reply for me. (timvp Edit: Good idea.)

I've seen some good offensive stretches this year, I've also seen the Spurs offense in a few games be as stagnant as I've ever seen it. I just don't see any greater relative reliance on the offense as opposed to the defense, after making adjustment for the year-to-year variation in the rules. And I think it would be a mistake for the Spurs or their fans to think they are some kind of offensive juggernaut now.

The Spurs win games this year, just like other years, when their defense clicks in. The difference is, because of the rule changes, what constitutes a good defensive team is different than it was 4-5 years ago. I don't think you're going to see the defense be allowed to dominate huge chunks of games as it used to. But from what I 've seen, the Spurs still emphasize defense more than anyone else (Hosuton may be the one exception).

The one signfiicant difference over the past few years is that they have become a weaker rebounding team, which is concerning.

Finally, the Spurs historically don't really gel on the defense end until late in the year. I believe you even have a saying about that around here.

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Will he bench him and limit his play for the rest of the year or will he try to ride it out ala Finley?

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He rode it out in 04 05.

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Originally Posted by MannyIsGod

I know you were questioning everything yourself, but I didn't feel Shoog was necessarily addressing you although after following the rest of the thread I may have missed the point there.

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I didn't think LJ was necessarily talking about how wonderful the offense was, but he seemed to pick up the banner pretty quickly when I pointed out that people were.

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Originally Posted by ShoogarBear

You excel so well at putting words in my mouth, perhaps it would be quicker to just have you type my reply for me. (timvp Edit: Good idea.)

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:smokin

Good line. I'll have to use it.

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Originally Posted by ShoogarBear

(timvp Edit: Good idea.

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Bastard. :lol

As a side note, do you guys find yourself far more into the season this year than at the same point last year?

Last year I didn't give a shit about the season till post January, and this year I've been arguing in 30948304983043 threads about the team it seems like.

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Originally Posted by MannyIsGod

Last year I didn't give a shit about the season till post January, and this year I've been arguing in 30948304983043 threads about the team it seems like.

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I think it's because this year the Spurs have sucked a lot, even in their wins. (I'm not talking about the last 3 wins)

Shoog, you should argue with LJ if for no other reason than the fact that he has Tony Romo on his fantasy team.

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Originally Posted by Kori Ellis

I think it's because this year the Spurs have sucked a lot, even in their wins.

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I think thats part of it, but this year I hate to miss a game and last year I didn't mind missing them so much in the early part of the season. I think last year I had championship complacency. Horryitis.

Fuck the Cowboys.

This has been a Public Service Annoucement.

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Originally Posted by ShoogarBear

I've seen some good offensive stretches this year, I've also seen the Spurs offense in a few games be as stagnant as I've ever seen it. I just don't see any greater relative reliance on the offense as opposed to the defense, after making adjustment for the year-to-year variation in the rules. And I think it would be a mistake for the Spurs or their fans to think they are some kind of offensive juggernaut now.

The Spurs win games this year, just like other years, when their defense clicks in. The difference is, because of the rule changes, what constitutes a good defensive team is different than it was 4-5 years ago. I don't think you're going to see the defense be allowed to dominate huge chunks of games as it used to. But from what I 've seen, the Spurs still emphasize defense more than anyone else (Hosuton may be the one exception).

The one signfiicant difference over the past few years is that they have become a weaker rebounding team, which is concerning.

Finally, the Spurs historically don't really gel on the defense end until late in the year. I believe you even have a saying about that around here.

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Good points. I agree with most of that.

What I'm worried about is that IF the Spurs' offense becomes dominant, that could overshadow chinks in the armor defensively. It's seems to me like the years that the Spurs have it easiest in the regular season, those are the years that they struggle in the playoffs.

In 1999, the team started off poorly and then became perhaps the best defensive team of all-time. In 2003, there was a lot of turmoil in the season, including injuries and changes to the starting lineup. In 2005, Duncan missed a lot of time and that forced the Spurs to come together.

When it's clear sailing in the regular season, the Spurs historically perform poorly in the playoffs. For example, the 2003-04 team was beating teams by 13.5 points per game over the last two months of the regular season ... and then they got bounced at the first sign of adversity.

Gimmick offenses don't win championships. And I classify what the Spurs are doing right now as gimmick offense.

Whats gimmicky about it? I think its a good offense if they're able to excute it, which is where I question them. I'm not sure they can consistently do it.