Stephen Jackson was kicked off the Pacers' bench by coach Rick Carlisle

Adopted son?

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Originally Posted by v2freak

Adopted son?

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Dude, what is your problem? Are you the reproduction police?

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Originally Posted by TDMVPDPOY

how much was the low balled offer the spurs gave him? shouldve thrown the MLE at him....

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the spurs 'low-balled' him by offering more than 28 other teams in the league were willing to offer at that time.

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Originally Posted by exstatic

Dude, what is your problem? Are you the reproduction police?

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Dude, what is your problem? Heaven forbid I ask a few questions regarding the extravagence of young billionaires.

First he's a millionaire, second he's been a baby daddy since high school

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Originally Posted by Trainwreck2100

First he's a millionaire, second he's been a baby daddy since high school

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How DARE he have a child without freak's permission!! That's...that's...extravagant!!!

Thank goodness he has the funds to support a child. The problem of teenage pregnancy is very real as people don't understand the consequences of their actions / don't have self-control. ducks has a point - just because he's filthy-rich, he gets away with a lot more.

But my disagreeing with how he's already become so rich is a completely separate issue. And for the record, I am not a LeBron lover or hater. For example: I appreciate how he went to the 04 Olympics when few others would, but I don't think he went in 06 for the right reasons. I love that he works at his game furiously, but I hate that he gets star treatment. I like how he wanted to do the skills challenge so he wouldn't just be known as a dunker, but I don't like that he dunked on our franchise player. And so on..

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Originally Posted by T Park

Jackson is a good rebounder, good defender

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This is even funnier than your Ginobili threads.

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Originally Posted by T Park

Exactly, had the Spurs not been stupid, and ponied up for him in 03, wed be looking at a three peat this year. Jackson is a good rebounder, good defender, a LONG defender, and when coached and surrounded by good character guys, he does good.

Indiana is surrounded by knuckleheads and peanutheads and Jax has ALWAYS been easily influenced.

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Jackson was a headcase when he was in San Antonio, but the Spurs: (1) had veteran leadership (David Robinson, Steve Smith, Danny Ferry, etc . . . ) that put a lot of peer pressure on him; and (2) had a guy like Mike Brown around to babysit Buckets every time he pouted because Pop pulled him early from a game for some ridiculous on-court decision that Jackson made -- a circumstance that repeated itself with stunning frequency during the 2002-03 season and the 2003 NBA Playoffs. That's not to say that SJax isn't a wonderful basketball player; it's not to say that he's not talented or that he could never be an asset to a basketball team. But, I don't think you can just look at the current Spurs and fit SJax into the mix. There's too much from either a contractual standpoint or an on-court standpoint that wouldn't be the same.

Had they given in on Jackson (given Peter Holt's much-noted frugality) they likely wouldn't have been able, down the road, to keep Ginobili AND extend Parker in that scenario -- unless they decided against resigning Bruce Bowen or bringing in Robert Horry. Ginobili's departure would have seemed most likely, since Jackson wasn't likely to take kindly to coming off the bench and Manu made clear that he preferred to start. I'm not sure the Spurs would be better off right now if they had Stephen Jackson and didn't have Manu Ginobili.

SJax wasn't that good even when he was good, if you follow me. He was a turnover machine in SA. I really don't miss him.

Nba Forum

"He was a turnover machine in SA."

Career AST / TO = 2.4 / 2.22.

Steven Jackson is a player much like Horry: you put up with his inconsistency and limited production because you KNOW that he's going to hit big shots. That being said, Horry accepts a limited regular season role, something I don't see Buckets EVER warming to. If you could play him only in the 4th Q and pay him the MCE, it would be the perfect storm. Unfortunately, that would never happen. Maybe later in his career, he'd accept such a role in SA.

He probably would have flourished here had he stayed, and would have continued to improve as a player

"probably, woulda, coulda, shoulda, maybe, if --are all words that precede any discussion about SJAX.

In his place Manu made the All-Star team. JAX did not get an All Star berth at either of the two teams he's played for as a starter since he left the Spurs.

We don't need JAX. Q.E.D.

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Originally Posted by v2freak

He probably would have flourished here had he stayed, and would have continued to improve as a player

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I'm not even sure on what basis you say that. He's gotten full time starting minutes in ATL and IND since he's left, and hasn't really developed at all. His 3 point shooting has progressed from mid-average to high average, but his overall FG% has never equalled what it was in SA in any year since, and the other numbers are a function of minutes.

"His 3 point shooting has progressed from mid-average to high average"

WTF? 3G% = 33% career, 26% this season

02/03 with Spurs: 32%.

SJax is a HORRIBLE 3G shooter, on average.

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Originally Posted by Trainwreck2100

First he's a millionaire, second he's been a baby daddy since high school

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:rolleyes

His baby was born right before the 2004-05 season. When LeBron was almost 20. He wasn't in high school, he was beginning his second year in the league.

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Originally Posted by wildbill2u

Actually Malik and Rasho and Nazr and Steve Jax aren't exceptions. They contributed to championships--but when their ratio of contibutions (+) to salary (-) got too lopsided, they were traded or let go.

Spurs FO and Pop make very unsentimental and very sharp judgements on this plus and minus ratio.

And they are almost invariably right as the cumulative results of their actions with these players show.

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actually, malik and rasho are exceptions. first, they overpaid malik for sentimental reasons AND to keep him off the lakers. he was in the dog house the entire time because not only was he costing the team, he was tying up funds. traded, the proof is in the pudding.

second, rasho was overpaid because the spurs had to get a drob replacement. it seemed like a good deal at the time because it was cheaper than drob and his numbers were better (in minny). turned out that his numbers are better because garnett doesn't have to get the ball most of the time. traded, proof...

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Originally Posted by exstatic

I'm not even sure on what basis you say that. He's gotten full time starting minutes in ATL and IND since he's left, and hasn't really developed at all. His 3 point shooting has progressed from mid-average to high average, but his overall FG% has never equalled what it was in SA in any year since, and the other numbers are a function of minutes.

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Continued influence from battle-hardened veterans and a strong system that would have sharpened his defensive skills led me to say this. Also, his 3 point percentage would have continued to increase as a result of playing with TD. TD's hardly as injured as O'Neal and doesn't play outside as much.

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Originally Posted by Dave McNulla

actually, malik and rasho are exceptions. first, they overpaid malik for sentimental reasons AND to keep him off the lakers. he was in the dog house the entire time because not only was he costing the team, he was tying up funds. traded, the proof is in the pudding.

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he wasn't in the doghouse the entire time. actually after year 1 of the new deal, his contract was not looking too bad (well, maybe it still did in terms of length, but not in annual salary). it wasn't towards the end of the second year and him providing next to nothing in the 2004 playoffs that things turned for the worse.

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Originally Posted by boutons_

"His 3 point shooting has progressed from mid-average to high average"

WTF? 3G% = 33% career, 26% this season

02/03 with Spurs: 32%.

SJax is a HORRIBLE 3G shooter, on average.

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To be fair, it's been better than his SA 3G% every year EXCEPT this year. He's had better years and this is definitely a worse year, but overall, he hasn't really progressed.

Pop has that mind control over Sjax.

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Originally Posted by Kori Ellis

:rolleyes

His baby was born right before the 2004-05 season. When LeBron was almost 20. He wasn't in high school, he was beginning his second year in the league.

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And to keep you updated on the sperm in the rest of basketball, Amare also has a daughter that was born in his second year in the league, Antione Wright had a kid while he was at A&M, which undoubtedly contributed to his leaving a year early for the NBA, and Greg Oden already has a kid, which was probably conceived while he was in high school. Finally, my friend Frank who was on my college intramural basketball team has a one-year-old daughter who was born while her mom was still in college.

He sure to end up in prison one day. Too bad, he's got talent.