The Spurs must trade for a long SF

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Originally Posted by Mr. Body

I wonder what people would give for him. I've seen a lot of Duhon+Khryapa for Williams+Beno+Scola trades, which I don't like, not least of which because Duhon is very expensive for a back-up point guard and I believe Scola can be more valuable. I'd do a Bonner+2nd rounder, but likely Chicago thinks they can still use him.

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absolutly disagree on Duhon.
but there is no way the Bulls might trade him anyhow.
right now he is to important for Skiles system and at 3 million/year he has a very cap friendly contract. even if he was only playing the back-up PG, IMO he is absolutly worth this number.
(Duhon is just a pipe dream, but i would bet a back-up like him is also the pipe dream of Pop and he would love to spend this 3 million on him)

but the item is Khryapa.
Bonner for him would be a great deal for us and Spurs could also throw in a 2nd rounder (don't we have 3 for the next draft ?)
Bonner isn't very usfull right now, his major qualities are well covered by the other players. Khryapa has almost the same size, but is quicker and the much better defender and rebounder. Bulls might in fact like the shooting ability of Bonner, since none of their bigs has any range.

I like the idea of Khryapa, but how would that trade work? We would need a 3rd party I'm sure. Bonner makes 2M and Khryapa only makes 1.17M this year. The CBA won't like that trade.

We have our normal 2nd round pick as well as Milwaukee's (Damir Markota trade) and that is all I know of. The Bucks pick could be reasonably high, but the original Spurs pick will likely be pretty worthless to most teams.

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Originally Posted by Darkwaters

Trading for a player like Gerald Wallace makes more sense in the long-run, but it requires giving up pieces that the Spurs might intend to keep. Plus, some of the scenarios opt for trading Beno with no new PG coming in. Does that mean that Barry is the backup? Vaughn? Wallace would be a long-term solution as they would likely resign him, Johnson would be short-term (expiring contract). Considering that the Spurs have a promising project in James White, does Wallace make sense?

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if the Spurs can bring in Wallace, it would be crazy not to give him 30+ minutes. (which he would play at SG and SF).
so Barry (and even Manu) would play more minutes at PG. (where he is more efficient than Beno anyhow)
noone knows if White will ever be a usefull rotation player, so we can't think of him being a future starter. Wallace is a starting calibre player right now and he will be another 6 years from now. so it is not either or.
(in other words: Spurs will have the need for a starting SF soon and will also have the need for an athletic back-up wing. White will likely be the latter, maybe the future 6th man, and btw. don't forget that currentls they are both 24)

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Originally Posted by Darkwaters

I like the idea of Khryapa, but how would that trade work? We would need a 3rd party I'm sure. Bonner makes 2M and Khryapa only makes 1.17M this year. The CBA won't like that trade.

We have our normal 2nd round pick as well as Milwaukee's (Damir Markota trade) and that is all I know of. The Bucks pick could be reasonably high, but the original Spurs pick will likely be pretty worthless to most teams.

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Bulls could throw in Barrett (who they don't use) and the numbers work. (Barrett would then likely be waived by the Spurs).

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Originally Posted by mountainballer

Bulls could throw in Barrett (who they don't use) and the numbers work. (Barrett would then likely be waived by the Spurs).

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The Spurs would be unable to accept that trade because they don't have the roster spots. We would have to waive one of our players and then reclaim them (like Orlando did with Bo Outlaw last year). I'm not sure how that works either. In otherwards, if the Spurs waived James White, could another team not technically acquire him before the Spurs were able to reclaim him? That would be a significant (and foolish) loss.

If the Spurs would be capable of acquiring Wallace I think it would make a lot of sense. He is a solid player already that can still grow. If hes unavailable then I think a Khryapa trade makes sense as well. Bonner is a pointless addition to the Spurs, but might actually serve a purpose in Chi-town.

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Originally Posted by Darkwaters

What about Linton Johnson? There was a little discussion on him and then it died down.

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I'm a fan of Linton Johnson as well, pretty much the exact type of player we need. Funny that you mention him, because he was a Spur in 04-05 (only played a few games), maybe you already knew that... Would have been nice to keep him around, but, we can't hold on to them all. If we could get him for cheap, I wouldn't mind at all. Couldn't be any worse than Eric Williams.

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Originally Posted by Darkwaters

The Spurs would be unable to accept that trade because they don't have the roster spots. We would have to waive one of our players and then reclaim them (like Orlando did with Bo Outlaw last year). I'm not sure how that works either. In otherwards, if the Spurs waived James White, could another team not technically acquire him before the Spurs were able to reclaim him? That would be a significant (and foolish) loss.

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Other teams can acquire him before Spurs thrus waivers.

The best thing to do is to have a third team with a roster spot who take Barrett.

The CBA allow to a team over the cap to get a player with a minimum salary without sending something in return like a trade exception or another player (it's called minimu salary exception).

Linton Johnson could probably be had for cheap if hes in the doghouse (JR Smith was traded as a toss in this summer in the Tyson Chandler trade). Johnson has a very small contract though which might make the numbers a little difficult. But with a 3rd team, Bonner could be swapped for him. The Hornets have a slew of SFs on their squad including Desmond Mason, Rasual Butler, Marcus "Marquinhos" Vinicius and obviously Peja Stojakovic. Linton Johnson is struggling to find minutes in that mix. The Hornets might be interested in a 2 guard in exchange (since there is no true 2 guard on the whole team).

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Originally Posted by Mr. Body

Just for fun -- if they could be had, who would people want the most:

Josh Childress
Mickael Pietrus
Gerald Wallace

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Personally, I like Josh Childress. I know he's got the funky release on his jumpshot and he's not as athletic as advertised when he came out of college, but he's a hustle player, can be a gritty defender, and won't disappoint on the offensive end.

The other two are good, I just wonder about Pietrus' consistency and Gerald Wallace's jumpshot.

1. I'd jump all over a Gerald Wallace trade, especially if Charlotte would think of the scraps trade mountainballer was suggesting (which it'd have to be). Udrih and Butler are replaceable, Scola is expendable, and Wallace is starter-caliber and would get heavy minutes off the bench before moving up in a year. The guy's 24 and has nasty abilities.

James White could still be developed. No problem there. He's low-risk anyway.

2. I don't get the guy above asking if a Bonner+second for Khryapa was crack-induced. It makes sense in theory.

The Spurs have 3 second rounders ONLY IF Chicago ends the season with one of the top 9 records, otherwise the pick reverts (and we never get one from them). As it stands, I don't see them as a top 9 team record-wise.

3. Linton Johnson would be decent to have on the bench at this point, but do we think he'd ever get playoff time? While we're dreaming, I'd like to dream about a guy who can play in the postseason.

Chicago is in the east. If they turn it around then they will have an easier schedule than any western team. But the Bulls need to turn it around soon.

Espn's trade machine is online now, try out your trades to see if they are legal.

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/trademachine

Malik Rose??

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Originally Posted by Mr. Body

3. Linton Johnson would be decent to have on the bench at this point, but do we think he'd ever get playoff time? While we're dreaming, I'd like to dream about a guy who can play in the postseason.

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agree, Johnson just doesn't have the upside to ever be even a decent back-up SF, IMO he is the typical third stringer.
we are not talking about a player who helps out a bit and averages less than 10 minutes in the regular season and isn't used in the PO.
Spurs should go for a player who has either the potential to be the successor of Bowen as the starting SF (like Wallace), or the potential to be a versatile back-up forward, who can play (and defend) at the 3 and 4 (like Khryapa). either player would be helpfull right now, since we can pretty much write off E.Williams and since we can not be sure that Finley and Horry will turn things around and start to make a significant impact.

mountainballer, I think we're in agreement pretty much.

This team needs a major overhaul this summer. Not a blow up, naturally, since the Big Three remain along with Bowen as the core starters, but nearly everything else will need to be ripped out and replaced. Sure, an Elson and Barry here and there might be kept...

Why not overhaul this year? The team is clearly stable enough to manage an erruption on the bench. We're not trading Horry, Finley, or any of the greybeards, but we have some tinker pieces. I'd like to not trade Barry - he's been amazing - but why not try hard to get that vital piece for the future, who may pay dividends this year? Why not try to pull a Childress or a Wallace when he's down?

Just imagine going into the '07 draft with a clear picture of our SF future and being able to look at other positions in the draft.

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Originally Posted by Darkwaters

Chicago is in the east. If they turn it around then they will have an easier schedule than any western team. But the Bulls need to turn it around soon.

Espn's trade machine is online now, try out your trades to see if they are legal.

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/trademachine

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Bonner for Nachbar works.
:spin

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Originally Posted by Mr. Body

Just imagine going into the '07 draft with a clear picture of our SF future and being able to look at other positions in the draft.

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Like Shooting Guard. I know Ginobili is unbelieveable on the court, but he's damn near guaranteed to miss 10-15 games with various ailments b/c of the way he plays. I'd like to see a good all-around SG to back up Ginobili, which may give the Spurs the leverage to deal Barry and his expiring (07-08) $6 mil contract.

PHAT TONY: Yes. Right now we're pinned to looking for SFs, but imagine looking at SGs and even PGs.

Undersized point guards or even point guards in general tend to drop in deep big-man drafts. Imagine nabbing a Rondo or a Marcus Williams type late in the draft and then going for a great scorer early in the 2nd - a Arenas or Redd wannabe.

don't get me wrong, of course the draft is vital for every franchise, no matter if lottery or a team like the Spurs, that usually picks late.
but the current needs won't be covered by a draft pick. (or if they did, it would be a bit of an accident).
Spurs have the most not signed draft picks of all teams in the league (5 right now), it is obvious that the Spurs draft philosophy is different to most other teams.
we will see at least 7 new players on the roster that starts the 2008/09 season, but considering the window of opportunity, most will be veterans. (I'm not talking 35 years old veterans, I mean players with some seasons under their belt)
thoses players can only be aquired via trade or free agency. Spurs will prefer the trade IMO, free agency didn't work that well lately (if we are honestly evaluating the signings). they won't go for a star player, but for one of thoses good players with adequate contracts. (somewhere in the 5-7 million area).

btw. something completly different, but now that the draft 2007 was mentioned. I know SG isn't our first need but
Rudy Fernandez
will finally be in the draft 2007 and (hopefully) not withdraw again. he is projected to be picked late in the first round.
if he falls to Spurs area: PICK HIM - PICK HIM - PICK HIM.
i watched him for quite some years, but now that he plays his first Euroleague season I can see more of him.
so I can tell you: it's exactly like some years ago, when Manu played Euroleague. there are so many similarities.
(in his first 6 games he was averaging 15.3 points in just 22 minutes, shooting 66% FG!)
he has a contract till 2008 (buyout is 2 million $ if he wants to get out before 2008), Spurs could easily wait. (he will be 23 then)
again: Fernandez is GREAT GREAT GREAT.
(mark my words, he will be as good as Manu)

Rudy Fernandez is a good player and I would love for the Spurs to pick him up. As I remember he has a pretty diverse skill-set which will make him very desirable to teams these days. He has the ball handling skills of a PG but actually plays the 3 for his current team. Somebody that is trying to play a diverse style of small-ball (a la the Suns) might be interested. Hes probably going to struggle defensively until he adds some more weight and muscle, but I really would like to pick him up too! Parker, Ginobili, Butler, "Flight" White, Mahinmi and Rudy Fernandez would be an absolutely amazing future for this franchise.

A guy like Ponkrashov might be available late, too, though he might be too unathletic for the NBA.

3-WAY TRADE
SPURS RECEIVE:
JEFF FOSTER
DANNY GRANGER
RODNEY CARNEY

76ERS RECEIVE:
MICHAEL FINLEY
ERIC WILLIAMS
JAMAAL TINSLEY
STEPHEN JACKSON

PACERS RECEIVE:
JACQUE VAUGHN
MATT BONNER
ALLEN IVERSON
RIGHTS TO LUIS SCOLA

I dont care about the other teams. It's a good trade for us!

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Originally Posted by mountainballer

Rudy Fernandez will finally be in the draft 2007 and (hopefully) not withdraw again.

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I really like Fernandez too and I think that he will been awesome pick. BTW, he scored 36 points :spin in a game three days ago.

Fernandez will be automaticly in the draft this year. Internatinal players born in 1985 (like Fernandez, Splitter or my boy Bokolo) are like college seniors : they are in the draft without needing to declare themselves and if they aren't drafted, they become nba FA.

and since this thread has turned into a pipe dream thread, Maggette's agent has just request a trade.
A trade like Maggette + korolev for Barry + Williams + Scola + a first round pick is a nice pipe dream. I guess that Maggette wants to start, Spurs can have a Parker/Bowen/Maggette/Duncan/Elson lineup with Manu as 6th man.

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Originally Posted by Bruno

I really like Fernandez too and I think that he will been awesome pick. BTW, he scored 36 points :spin in a game three days ago.

Fernandez will be automaticly in the draft this year. Internatinal players born in 1985 (like Fernandez, Splitter or my boy Bokolo) are like college seniors : they are in the draft without needing to declare themselves and if they aren't drafted, they become nba FA.

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Bokolo. yes!
a bit undersized for the NBA, but could develope into a poor man's Dwyane Wade.
a typical 2nd round pick IMO.
Spurs have all those 2nd round picks (and they for sure know him, otherwise Tony can tell something about him) if he is there they should get him.

Everyone has been saying this forever. Each year since the rules change has been tougher and tougher, more teams exposing this flaw in our team. Each offseason most people on this board know that this is what we need to address. Each offseason the front office has done nothing to address it.

All in the name of keeping us under that salary cap. Somewhere, Marcus Bryant is laughing right now.