Rosen: (Do the spurs have) What it takes?

Spurs don't look like a champion yet
Charley Rosen / Special to FOXSports.com
http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/6259960

Despite their stellar record thus far this season, the Spurs' 106-99 road-loss to the Lakers uncovered some alarming shortcomings.

These flaws certainly won't keep San Antonio from winning 60-plus games, but just might frustrate their attempt to win another championship.

Even the most casual fan knows what the Spurs can do:

# Tim Duncan has a variety of long-armed shots in the low-post. Indeed, virtually every time the Lakers failed to collapse their defense around him, TD spun, pivoted, and jump-hooked his way to several buckets. While Duncan wasn't especially quick off his feet, those same long arms worked with his strong hands and his impeccable timing to make him a formidable rebounder. He also showed a willingness to run the floor (both ways), to set effective screens, and to make the right passes at the right times.

All things considered, Duncan is the most fundamentally sound All-Star in the game.

# Bruce Bowen can knock down open treys and play aggressive interior defense.

# Tony Parker is an international jet-setter. Give him the ball anywhere in the vicinity of a high screen and Parker can either find an open jumper, or zip into the lane. (Which is exactly why the Spurs run numerous high S/R), and his right-to-left crossover executed at warp-speed, is just plain indefensible.

# Manu Ginobili can bomb from the outskirts and take his left hand through the narrowest cracks in any defense. If Ginobili isn't much of a straight-up defender, he compensates with quick hands and uncanny anticipation.

# Brent Barry is a dangerous 3-point shooter.

# Robert Horry used to be Mister Big Shot.

Put them all together and the Spurs always make the extra pass, run a precision offense, and take justifiable pride in their poise, and in their timely and alert defensive rotations. They have a lot of ways to score, and they always seem to come up with a big play when a ball game is on the line.

But not on Sunday night in Los Angeles.

The Lakers just about neutralized Duncan by frequently triple-teaming him in the pivot — limiting him to 7-9 and 16 points. He also had difficulty defending the post-up activities of the Lakers' young bigs — Kwame Brown and Andrew Bynum combined for 17 points and together matched TD's total of 13 rebounds — as they variously overcame Duncan's defense with tight drop steps, baseline drives, and even a couple of dunks. The two youngsters (along with Lamar Odom) also showed much more explosiveness off the floorboards than did the 30-year old Duncan, and beat him to the top of several rebounds.

Kobe Bryant had his way with the Spurs on Sunday night. (Mark J. Terrill / Associated Press)

Could it be that TD has lost a half-step?

While Tony Parker seemed able to score at will — 9-16, 9 assists, 21 points — he had trouble passing over the top of his defender. (That was the reason for two of his five turnovers.) Also, TP's defensive efforts weren't very successful in keeping either Smush Parker or Jordan Farmar out of the middle.

Defensive balance and anticipation, as well as general mindfulness are Parker's biggest drawbacks.

Michael Finley has simply lost any signs of life in his legs — 2-14, 4 points. On one first-quarter isolation, he drove to the ring, failed to elevate, and missed the layup. In his glory years, he would have easily dunked the sucker.

Fabricio Oberto showed in proper fashion on several screens, but was too slow to prevent the ball-handler from turning the corner. Yes, he worked hard and set passable screens, but Fab-O is too slow to justify significant court-time against the better teams. His defense was so immobile that the Lakers even attacked him with several post-ups and isos by Luke Walton. Oberto registered two points, four rebounds, and four fouls in just under thirteen minutes. The guy just can't give the Spurs what they need from their man in the middle.

Bowen can still play down-and-dirty post-up defense. Indeed, he fronted Kobe Bryant to good effect whenever the Lakers' main man ventured into the pivot. And Double-B's long-range shooting was totally on target — 6-9, 3-3 from downtown, 16 points. But, at age 35, he can no longer play lockup defense away from the basket. Kobe had a field day both shooting from the outside and shedding Bowen on his way into the paint.

Ginobili is still at the top of his game — 6-10, 3 assists, 2 steals, 23 points. The trouble is that as a non-starter, Ginobili was most often teamed with Beno Udrih, Finley, Horry, and Maurice Evans — and was the only dependable scorer on this second unit. As a result, Ginobili had to over-handle the ball and try to force his way through tiny cracks in the Lakers defense — hence his 6 turnovers. After the Spurs starters had jumped out to an early 11-pointlead, Ginobili and the other subs were outscored by 11-2, and the Lakers were back in the game. In the second half, Gregg Popovich tried to remedy the situation by having Parker assume many of Udrih's minutes.

Still, Ginobili remains the key to San Antonio's offense, providing a spark of the unexpected that boosts a very good team into a championship-caliber team. But, he's not dominating enough to carry the entire offensive load for the second unit and needs more daylight with the starters.

On the cusp of his 36th birthday, Brent Barry remains a two-dimensional player — 2-3, 3 assists, 6 points. He can still shoot 3-balls and make snappy reversal passes. Too bad he still can't defend.

Robert Horry can still drop long range shots and hit turnaround jumpers on the rare occasions when he posts-up. But he could in no way play adequate defense against Lamar Odom. Nor could he make the quick-footed defensive rotations that once were his specialties.

Horry should have retired two years ago.

Beno Udrih moved the ball smartly and made nice entry passes. But he still was unable to handle the ball safely in a crowd.

Francisco Elson ran the floor, dunked off a nifty S/R he ran with Ginobili, got pushed around near the basket, and committed four fouls in 15 minutes.

So how do all of the above pluses and minuses play out on the Spurs balance sheet?

Duncan is the Spurs only reliable rebounder — the next highest boardman were Parker, Finley, and Oberto with four each. That's why the Spurs couldn't keep the Lakers from climbing all over the offensive glass — LA had 14 offensive rebounds to San Antonio's five.

Duncan is the Spurs only reliable big man — Horry, Oberto, and Elson were so ineffective that in the endgame Pop went with TD, Bowen, Barry, Ginobili, and Parker.

Duncan is the Spurs only reliable post-up scorer — actually he is their only post-up scorer.

What else?

Besides Parker, Ginobili, and the seldom-used Elson, the Spurs lack any speedsters. Besides Parker and Ginobili, the Spurs also lack anybody not named Duncan who can create his own shot.

The Spurs, then, are two players short. Another glass-eating big who can score inside (do they really miss Nazr Mohammed that much?), and a wing-man who can light up the scoreboard.

Even so, the Spurs are certainly capable of returning to the winner's circle. But only if Duncan, Parker, and Ginobili can bring their A-plus games to the playoffs. Only if Oberto, Elson and Horry make sizeable contributions.

And only if Horry, Barry, Finley, and Bowen can be inspired by Satchel Paige's view of senior athletes with young hearts: "If you didn't know how old you are, how old would you be?"

Charley Rosen, former CBA coach, author of 12 books about hoops, the current one being A pivotal season — How the 1971-72 L.A. Lakers changed the NBA, is a frequent contributor to FOXSports.com.

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Originally Posted by Rosen

Ginobili is still at the top of his game — 6-10, 3 assists, 2 steals, 23 points. The trouble is that as a non-starter, Ginobili was most often teamed with Beno Udrih, Finley, Horry, and Maurice Evans — and was the only dependable scorer on this second unit.

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Say what?? Maurice Evans?

wet dreams forum rosen

Missing out on JR Smith is looking increasingly troublesome. And the fact that Jumaine Jones is sitting on the Phoenix bench doing nothing and earning the minimum is ridiculous - we should have found 2mil/3 years for him from somewhere.

Finley has turned into a bad joke. Maybe we can package him and Williams (expiring contracts) for some kind of athletic swingman?

Elson needs to play more, and we need to start blooding Jackie Butler - he is the other low-post scorer we need.

crazy head

Charlie Rosen is the king of making global assessments on limited data. Nobody can dissect one game and make sweeping generalizations like he can.

The Lakers played like it was game seven of the Finals last night. The Spurs looked disinterested in matching their energy which was one of the reasons they got killed on the boards.

I might worry a little if they lost tonight.

Rosen is right. He's denounced in these forums, but he's often spot-on in some assessments. We are two players short. Funny thing is, the Spurs may still be able to do it, but just one more player would make it so much more likely. If Butler panned out, if we had J.R. Smith, if we could have managed a decent player in the off-season other than Eric Williams and Matt Bonner... We'll see, but Rosen is very much right here.

Can somebody name me a team with 5 players who can create their own shots?
I can't think of one-single team. Well unless you count the 70's Knicks, the early 80's 76ers, and the 80's Celtics. Come to think of it, there are only a handful of teams in the history of the league who can claim that.

He's not asking for 5 players that can make their own shots. He's asking for 1 guy who can crash the boards hard and a younger wingman who can get some points here and there on his own. On the second he doesn't need a star, he needs a spot guy.

Oh, so Gino's turnovers were because he was forced onto the second squad. Thank God someone explained that. And here I thought it was sloppy ball handling and that having a scorer on the second squad and allowing Gino freedom of offense was a good thing.

Also, thank God he told me Maurice Evans played for the Spurs. All this time I thought he was a Laker.

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Originally Posted by easjer

Also, thank God he told me Maurice Evans played for the Spurs. All this time I thought he was a Laker.

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One editorial mistake does not dissolve an argument. Let's not be that petty.

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Originally Posted by Mr. Body

One editorial mistake does not dissolve an argument. Let's not be that petty.

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Rosen has at least 2 "editorial mistakes" per column... the guy looks like he's 70 years old - he should know how to check his own work by now... but he has his head so far up his own ass that he thinks both his prognostications (that the Suns wouldn't make the playoffs after their 1-6 start, for example) and his writing are the greatest things ever put online or in print.

Any casual Spurs fan or Spurs viewer knows that they have their "off" nights where they just don't care and those happen about 20-22 times per year (therefore, there are 60+ other nights where they turn it on...).

He fellates the Lakers every time they beat a marginally good team and continually can't tell the difference between Jumaine Jones and James Jones - Jumaine Jones played for the Lakers and no two people could look less alike!

He said that since Nash doesn't have his floppy hair this year, he won't go to the foul line "as often" (Nash never gets to the line anyways) ... I can't believe anyone pays this guy to give his opinion: Nash's mane will affect how the refs officiate a game???

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Originally Posted by Mr. Body

He's not asking for 5 players that can make their own shots. He's asking for 1 guy who can crash the boards hard and a younger wingman who can get some points here and there on his own. On the second he doesn't need a star, he needs a spot guy.

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I probably misinterpreted his quote, but after talking about lacking speedsters, and naming the Big 3, he goes to his conclusion that the Spurs are two players short, then come up with two examples of players that are basically stars.
A glass-eating big who can score inside are rare, and I would never ever put Nazr in that category. A wing-man who can light up the scoreboard are not really growing on trees (and I assume a wing-man who can light up are all-star caliber players, since it is clear from his column he doesn’t think Barry or Finley are in that group).

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Originally Posted by Rosen

Besides Parker, Ginobili, and the seldom-used Elson, the Spurs lack any speedsters. Besides Parker and Ginobili, the Spurs also lack anybody not named Duncan who can create his own shot.

The Spurs, then, are two players short. Another glass-eating big who can score inside (do they really miss Nazr Mohammed that much?), and a wing-man who can light up the scoreboard.

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Oh, and one more thing, dude goes raving about any Phil Jackson accomplishments, even a regular season win over the Spurs. Yes, the Spurs are outplayed, but it really is a stretch to come to conclusions on the Spurs' strengths and weaknesses based on one game in December.

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Originally Posted by Rosen

Even so, the Spurs are certainly capable of returning to the winner's circle. But only if Duncan, Parker, and Ginobili can bring their A-plus games to the playoffs. Only if Oberto, Elson and Horry make sizeable contributions.

And only if Horry, Barry, Finley, and Bowen can be inspired by Satchel Paige's view of senior athletes with young hearts: "If you didn't know how old you are, how old would you be?"

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What does it mean by return to the winner's circle? Is he implying that the Spurs are out of that circle right now with the second best record in the league? And are Parker, Ginobili and Duncan not playing their A+ games now? Has he watched Barry play this year? Or Bowen for that matter?

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One editorial mistake does not dissolve an argument. Let's not be that petty.

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The dude works for a national media outlet, there shouldn't be any. IMO, if you put stuff out for public viewing, you open yourself up to scrutiny and judgement. It's like on message boards...if I type or spell like Hooked on Phonics didn't work for me, I deserve to be called out for it. If you don't want to be called out for a mistake...don't make one.

As far as the topic goes...

Its ok to not look like a champion in December, as long as you look like one in June.

Rosen was more right than wrong. He gave the Spurs plenty of compliments. He even said Manu was at the top of his game, which is better than a lot of people around here have said.

He addressed the same things people in here address all the time. He said we still might be able to win it all. Isn't that the same opinion here?

He's right about:
-Spurs need rebounding help.
-Horry is done.
-Finley is done.
-Parker's D was sucky in that game.

But he's wrong to put this loss entirely on SA. LA was playing great, they had a good game plan (smother Timmy); they kicked butt. THAT night. I think SA will take the rematch.

Rosen is just an idiot

Spurs vs Lakers : we didn't play well against a team that played harder, period

We are still very dangerous ; if the Lakers played us the way they did, it's because they know we are dangerous ; heck, they had more respect for us than we did (for us)

While he does point out the obvious needs of the team, Rosen has to remove himself from Phil's ass in order to write his columns. He is to Phil what Ahmad Rashad was to Jordan.

Rosen is a Lakers lover. I take everything he says with a big ass grain of salt.

Rosen is absolutely a Laker lover, despite being right on a lot of stuff. But Phil Jackson is a better coach than Pop. This year has been a phenomenal coaching job.

But I do agree with the part about Finley though, he really needs to get into rhythm

Way to discredit them because of one game.

that's bullship and it's obvious that Rosen didn't watch the previous games of the Spurs!
IMO, Spurs played really great against the Warriors and Clippers with championship materials!

They just got lazy against the Lakers and didn't put the extra effort to pass and handle the ball right.

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Originally Posted by Admidave50

that's bullship and it's obvious that Rosen didn't watch the previous games of the Spurs!
IMO, Spurs played really great against the Warriors and Clippers with championship materials!

They just got lazy against the Lakers and didn't put the extra effort to pass and handle the ball right.

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:clap :clap :clap :clap

Spurs will destroy everybody after the all-star break ; till then, we'll have some ups and downs
Regarding Fin, I'm sure it's because of the crappy ball

Man...and I thought being tied for most wins in the league was a good thing. :lol

i disagree with his thoughts about oberto being useless against good teams. he is just starting his second season here and is doing very well. if you were to judge a second-year player that quickyl no one would ever make it in the NBA. Sure, he has his athletic shortcomings. However, I think we can pretty much guarantee he will play smart when he gets his chance in the playoffs and do big things for us.

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Originally Posted by phxspurfan

i disagree with his thoughts about oberto being useless against good teams. he is just starting his second season here and is doing very well. if you were to judge a second-year player that quickyl no one would ever make it in the NBA. Sure, he has his athletic shortcomings. However, I think we can pretty much guarantee he will play smart when he gets his chance in the playoffs and do big things for us.

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He did go 11-for-11 against the Suns to help you guys win... Suns weren't a good team back then and don't have much of a defense, but Oberto was out of his mind that game hitting 17 footers and getting tons of putbacks.

It was ONE GAME, ONE BAD QUARTER, on the road in a tough arena ! Spurs still have the second best record in the NBA, and nobody knows if Utah is for real or not. It's early folks.....Spurs will be there with a good chance to win it all !

"Spurs still have the second best record in the NBA"

:lol, they aren't even in first place in the WC. There are seven WC teams with 5,6, or 7 L. The Spurs are only tied for WC second place with 3 other teams.

In the Last10 records, 6 teams are better than the Spurs, including tonight's Wolves.

WC is very crowded at the top. It's going to take the Spurs some weeks more, maybe end of January at earliest, to detach from the crowd, if they manage to detach at all.

if the spurs blew every team out and were constantly 'detached' from the rest of the league, it wouldnt be fun to watch the spurs anymore

I wonder what Rosen thinks about Odom being out for a month - I guess maybe they need a few more "pieces" too

The whole "A-game" thing....teh Spurs have come into the playoffs playing the most high octane, crisp, amazing, effective offense into the playoffs only once: The first six games of the 2004 post season. Our offense looked unstoppable at first glance. Parker was also shooting better threes than any other point guard in the playoffs, that helped alot. But our offense looked unstoppable. Then Phil Jackson made a simple adjustment and we lost 4 games in a row to the most overrated lakers team of all time.

Even if parker and ginobili and duncan play an A game and we get contributions i still do not see it happening because our guys aren't going to grow 4 inches each come playoff time, i dont think they'll gain significant hops by then either. And that 2004 team was a better rebounding team than this 2006, i think.

We need to make a move.

Yes, Mr. Rosen, the Spurs have what it takes. And every season this time of year they come into the shadow of doubt.

We should send GrandeDave over to Mr. Rosen's house and kick his ass! :tu

:lol

We should investigate the overly discussed and fictional Gerald Wallace trade.

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Originally Posted by boutons_

WC is very crowded at the top. It's going to take the Spurs some weeks more, maybe end of January at earliest, to detach from the crowd, if they manage to detach at all.

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You ain't kidding. Usually, you can look at the NBA scores pretty much everyday and find a game or two that will help the team gain a little distance (even if it is far too early to be scoreboard watching). But damn, this year everybody just keeps winning.