Biggest threat to the Spurs- Jazz or Suns?

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Originally Posted by Phenomanul

(as far as matchups against the Spurs are concerned)

Yao > Kwame + Bynum
Wells = Odom
Bryant => McGrady
Alston or Sura >>> Smush Parker
P. Jax > Van Gundy

Rockets Defense >>>> Lakers Defense

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Wells is nowhere near the player that Odom is. Wells was MAYBE on his level for one playoff series versus the Spurs, but hasn't done a thing this year. Odom may have just been injured, but when healthy, he's 10 times the player that Wells is.

Bryant is far and away better than McGrady and comes without the injury concerns, so that negates the lack of point guard play.

Oh and speaking of PG's, Farmar, whom you forgot, and Parker are better than Alston. And is Sura even playing again???

The Rockets...or Rocket that scares me is Yao and...that's it.

The Suns were healthy in 2003.



They are a very good team and are capable of winning the west, however I think the consensus here is that the Spurs have more than two threats. Phoenix can light it up but they also get lit up. They are second in most points allowed and 16th in both rebounding and blocked shots. They need to get better defensively.

Mavs, Suns, Jazz, Lakers, us.

I would not be surprised if that group ended the season within 3Ls max of each other.

iow, Spurs should start playing NOW for HCA, not on March 1.

Jazz the champs this year, book it!

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Originally Posted by RS189

Jazz the champs this year, book it!

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If they had a skinny, sweet-shooting two guard, I'd call them the 2004 Detriot Pistons.

EDIT:

PG - Tough-nosed, big defensive guard w/ shooting touch

SF - Long, lanky do-it-all guy

PF - Big with Range

C - Defensive toughness (though Boozer can score)

Overall: Gritty defensive-oriented team that won't score a bunch of points....though neither will their opponent.

I give them a shot, but think that the rest of the league has improved considerably.

I don't think the 2004 Pistons could win this year, so I don't think the 2007 Jazz can.

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Originally Posted by The_Game

I mean players as a whole

roster wise

They have the MVP
a 20 and 10 player
a beast in Amare
Barbosa with 16-18 PPG off the bench
Kurt thomas a guy who can give them 9-8 a game off the bench
Raja Bell could pour in 14-17 a game
Diaw can put up 10+, 6 and 6

they are very talented.

Those who don't think they can win it all are clueless.

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Thank you for this amazing logic and lack of a short-sighted "we've beat them before" or "they don't play defense" kind of BS. I'm not saying the Suns are a front-runner to win the West, but to count them out/ignore them would just be stupid. I wonder if people's tunes would change if Raja Bell hit that FT and they won it in regulation earlier this season... and the Jazz didn't go on that run to beat SA...

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Originally Posted by MosesGuthrie

The Suns were healthy in 2003.



They are a very good team and are capable of winning the west, however I think the consensus here is that the Spurs have more than two threats. Phoenix can light it up but they also get lit up. They are second in most points allowed and 16th in both rebounding and blocked shots. They need to get better defensively.

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They are second-most in points allowed, but 3rd in point differential, and I think it's important to note that, as well. Sometimes their best defense is their offense because they'll let a team score and then run on down and score within a few seconds. Numbers are also skewed by the New Jersey game where they gave up 157.

And in 2003, they had a completely different team - Stephon Marbury at PG, Penny Hardaway at SG, Jake Voshkul at C and Frank Johnson as head coach.... doesn't matter that they were healthy...

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Originally Posted by PHAT TONY

Wells is nowhere near the player that Odom is. Wells was MAYBE on his level for one playoff series versus the Spurs, but hasn't done a thing this year. Odom may have just been injured, but when healthy, he's 10 times the player that Wells is.

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I would agree that Odom > Wells...

Matchup wise, however Wells causes more problems for the Spurs than Odom does...

The fact that Wells is currently in Van Gundy's dog-house does nothing to dissuade the difference... er my opinion anyways....

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Originally Posted by PHAT TONY

Bryant is far and away better than McGrady and comes without the injury concerns, so that negates the lack of point guard play.

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McGrady is streaky... but when he's on (and healthy); NO ONE can stop him.

I guess the same could be said of Bryant; except that Bruce has a better feel for Bryant's game than he does for McGrady's. McGrady is longer.

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Originally Posted by PHAT TONY

Oh and speaking of PG's, Farmar, whom you forgot, and Parker are better than Alston. And is Sura even playing again???

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True, Sura is not yet playing... but he's a much better playmaker than any of the other three.... he's got a little bit of Manu's quirkyness to his game.

And again, as far as matchups are concerned Alston is a harder matchup for Tony because Alston is a better assists playmaker than Smush. He can also knock down the deep ball with higher accuracy than Smush. Smush's only advantage over Tony is that his length bothers Tony.

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Originally Posted by PHAT TONY

The Rockets...or Rocket that scares me is Yao and...that's it.

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We agree on this one.... very few if any can guard Yao straight up (without getting into foul trouble that is)....

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Originally Posted by boutons_

Mavs, Suns, Jazz, Lakers, us.

I would not be surprised if that group ended the season within 3Ls max of each other.

iow, Spurs should start playing NOW for HCA, not on March 1.

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I don't think HCA really matters that much to the Spurs. It's always a good thing to have but they're confident enough to know they can win on the road in the playoffs. I think they (much like the Mavs) tend to play better on the road. I know home court doesn't mean squat when the Spurs & Mavs play. It doesn't mean much when the Mavs & Suns play either. I'm guessing it's the same with the Spurs & Suns.

While neither team really concerns me when I think of a 7 game playoff series in comparison to the Mavs, that's not to say that either team would be an easy out for the Spurs. I'm guessing the Suns right now. Its just too early. I picked the Suns because they've been running deep into the playoffs the past couple of years and it seems Amare Stoudemire is gearing back into form.

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Originally Posted by timvp

Threats to Spurs:

1. Lack of Rebounding
2. Small Ball
3. Dallas Mavericks

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:tu

Agree with this list 100%. I really hope Elson can pick up our system better and win the starting spot because if we don't pick up another rebounding forward this year, our rebounding will be our ultimate undoing.

We may have won tonight against Minny but we were outrebounded. Again. Elson seems to be our only big besides Tim that can board worth a damn and that's a scary thought. The Jazz would be a very tough out in the playoffs just because of their rebounding.

As you also correctly mention, the second biggest chink in our armor is small ball. Because of our lack of a true SF, pop is still toying with small ball playing Finley at PF even though we got burned with this strategy last year. All the threats for the title this year have true SFs that could force Pop into his smallball ways.

I agree with everything you had to say RonMexico. No one should overlook the Suns this year and you cannot compare this team to two years ago or even last year. The Jazz are playing very well also and should not be taken lightly either. Neither the Mavs or the Spurs are way ahead of us and as of tonight we are ahead of the Mavs. The season has just begun and there is a lot more to play so don't go counting your eggs before they are hatched, Spurs and Mavs fans!

Thanks. I'm just trying to keep perspective. I'm not making grand generalizations about the playoffs in December. I'm just trying to say that I see this Suns team getting better, rather than worse as the year goes on and I don't see many glaring issues personnel-wise. Spurs fans keep complaining that need to get someone for Finley or get another rebounding big-man or stop toying with small-ball.

The Suns (aside from a truly effective backup PG) have a good roster intact and just need to work on things such as maintaining intensity (and, therefore, big leads). Banks can become a quality backup, but I just think he needs time and confidence - and then that can put Barbosa back in his natural role of SG. I think Jalen Rose will prove valuable late in the year as Jim Jackson and Tim Thomas did the past 2 seasons.

I think they need to work on some of their fundamental defense, such as how they handle screens and not getting lazy on the shooters, which has been improving the past 6 games or so. (They already play the passing lanes and double-team extremely well.) They need to work on defense now because they've proven they can't just "switch it on" come playoff time. Thirdly, the more Amare comes along, the more I think they'll be able to survive better in a half-court game.

LOL Suns homers, the Mavs and Spurs have beaten you this season. Let's look at your mighty record.

Games you've won - 15
- 10 teams under 0.500
- 2 teams at 0.500
- THREE teams above 0.500 and one of those teams is in the east, easier schedule

Games you've lost - 6
- losses to teams above 0.500 --> ALL OF THEM!!! You've lost to the Jazz twice and one apiece to the Spurs, Mavericks, Clippers, Lakers...basically you can't hang with the West teams that are above 0.500...i'm not saying you won't be able to, you just haven't done so yet and you've had plenty of opportunities

beat the elite a bit more often and then we'll talk

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Originally Posted by ponky

LOL Suns homers, the Mavs and Spurs have beaten you this season. Let's look at your mighty record.

Games you've won - 15
- 11 teams under 0.500
- 2 teams at 0.500
- THREE teams above 0.500

Games you've lost - 6
- losses to teams above 0.500 --> ALL OF THEM!!! You've lost to the Jazz twice and one apiece to the Spurs, Mavericks, Clippers, Lakers...basically you can't hang with the West teams that are above 0.500...i'm not saying you won't be able to, you just haven't done so yet and you've had plenty of opportunities

beat the elite a bit more often and then we'll talk

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DAMN I hate to agree with a Mavs fan but he laid the smack-down all on your ass. :lol

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Originally Posted by phyzik

DAMN I hate to agree with a Mavs fan but he laid the smack-down all on your ass. :lol

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it's even better than He is a SHE, hahahahaha!

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Originally Posted by ponky

LOL Suns homers, the Mavs and Spurs have beaten you this season. Let's look at your mighty record.

Games you've won - 15
- 10 teams under 0.500
- 2 teams at 0.500
- THREE teams above 0.500 and one of those teams is in the east, easier schedule

Games you've lost - 6
- losses to teams above 0.500 --> ALL OF THEM!!! You've lost to the Jazz twice and one apiece to the Spurs, Mavericks, Clippers, Lakers...basically you can't hang with the West teams that are above 0.500...i'm not saying you won't be able to, you just haven't done so yet and you've had plenty of opportunities

beat the elite a bit more often and then we'll talk

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Yeah, ok - your record against above .500 teams isn't so great either, so just stop right there. Secondly, when did those losses occur for the Suns? Oh yeah, in the first 2 weeks of the season with 3 back-to-backs in a row. I'll admit, the Suns were really out of whack with their chemistry and their ability to keep leads at that point in time and I was getting very frustrated and anxious about this season.

However, they had double digit leads in 4 of their losses and were a Raja Bell FT away from beating the Spurs in SA, then had to play the Mavs the next night after an OT game in Texas. So don't talk to me about how great the Mavs have played against piss-poor competition this year, as you can see below.

Mavs have LOST to Sub-.500 teams THREE Times!! I'm happy the Suns haven't blown a fucking easy game against one of those ninnies. So, the Mavs have beaten Memphis TWICE... BIG fucking deal. Memphis is 5-17... wow, real quality wins. Yes, the Suns lost to Utah, but had a 19 point lead in that game, while you guys got BLOWN OUT! The reason I find comfort in that is because the Suns haven't lost to a sub-.500 team this year and they tend to do it a lot because they play down to their competition.

Mavs have only beaten 4 teams with an above .500 record, which is *GASP* only 1 more than the Suns!!! Guess where that win came? In Phoenix, on the second night of a back-to-back when Amare was sucking it up and the whole team was in vagina mode. Now they've rattled off a 12-game winning streak (like your Mavs did) against only slightly better competition than Dallas had and all of a sudden you're discrediting this streak.

Talk to me when you don't get blown out against Utah, the Clippers (sub-.500), Washington (sub-.500), and Detroit (in the east, so as you say "easier schedule").

The greater irony is that your signature is littered with quotes blasting the officials, when your Baby Dirky is one of the most coddled players in the history of the NBA.

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Originally Posted by RonMexico

The greater irony is that your signature is littered with quotes blasting the officials, when your Baby Dirky is one of the most coddled players in the history of the NBA.

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Indeed. :tu

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Originally Posted by RonMexico

Yeah, ok - your record against above .500 teams isn't so great either, so just stop right there. Secondly, when did those losses occur for the Suns? Oh yeah, in the first 2 weeks of the season with 3 back-to-backs in a row. I'll admit, the Suns were really out of whack with their chemistry and their ability to keep leads at that point in time and I was getting very frustrated and anxious about this season.

However, they had double digit leads in 4 of their losses and were a Raja Bell FT away from beating the Spurs in SA, then had to play the Mavs the next night after an OT game in Texas. So don't talk to me about how great the Mavs have played against piss-poor competition this year, as you can see below.

Mavs have LOST to Sub-.500 teams THREE Times!! I'm happy the Suns haven't blown a fucking easy game against one of those ninnies. So, the Mavs have beaten Memphis TWICE... BIG fucking deal. Memphis is 5-17... wow, real quality wins. Yes, the Suns lost to Utah, but had a 19 point lead in that game, while you guys got BLOWN OUT! The reason I find comfort in that is because the Suns haven't lost to a sub-.500 team this year and they tend to do it a lot because they play down to their competition.

Mavs have only beaten 4 teams with an above .500 record, which is *GASP* only 1 more than the Suns!!! Guess where that win came? In Phoenix, on the second night of a back-to-back when Amare was sucking it up and the whole team was in vagina mode. Now they've rattled off a 12-game winning streak (like your Mavs did) against only slightly better competition than Dallas had and all of a sudden you're discrediting this streak.

Talk to me when you don't get blown out against Utah, the Clippers (sub-.500), Washington (sub-.500), and Detroit (in the east, so as you say "easier schedule").

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Haha, BTBs as an excuse? You're talking to the wrong person, we don't have BTB problems, we also played three of them in a row a couple of weeks ago right before meeting San Antonio the day after Thanksgiving.

"Yes, the Suns lost to Utah, but had a 19 point lead in that game, while you guys got BLOWN OUT!"

This is something to celebrate? It's much better to get blown out than to lose a lead and then lose the entire game when you had the W in your pocket. Like I said, it's the winning record that counts and you haven't beaten us or the Spurs and those are the only teams that matter. If you want to count yourself in the mix then look at the records of these teams against each other. Mavs have beaten the Spurs once and the Suns once...Spurs have beaten the Mavs once and the Suns once...and the Suns have beaten...they have beaten...help me out here.

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Originally Posted by RonMexico

The greater irony is that your signature is littered with quotes blasting the officials, when your Baby Dirky is one of the most coddled players in the history of the NBA.

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I find them funny and the Harris foul was a big deal because Duncan was shooting a three, which in itself is pretty fucking hilarious. Shall I go get those foul stats for you as well? Last time I checked Wade and Duncan garnered more fouls than Dirk...this season AND last. I only post those quotes because Spurs fans like to bitch about Dirk and his fouls but they don't talk about all the freebies Duncan gets.

Um, that Utah loss was on the road in OT and like I said, they were working on chemistry issues (oh yeah, and Nash wasn't playing, because if he was there, I think he would have righted the ship and they would have won that game). You're basing this on one loss... In fact, it's even funnier because I was watching that game and Okur got 3 FTs at the end of regulation in a play very similar to the play for which you attack Ronnie Nunn.

Your record against above-.500 teams is still BELOW .500, so I don't know what your point is here... that we lost to the Mavs early in the season? Ok, congratulations.

Suns had back-to-backs against quality teams like Dallas, San Antonio, and Utah... not Memphis (like Mavs did) - if you don't win a B2B against Memphis, the league should contract your franchise.

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Originally Posted by ponky

I find them funny and the Harris foul was a big deal because Duncan was shooting a three, which in itself is pretty fucking hilarious. Shall I go get those foul stats for you as well? Last time I checked Wade and Duncan garnered more fouls than Dirk...this season AND last. I only post those quotes because Spurs fans like to bitch about Dirk and his fouls but they don't talk about all the freebies Duncan gets.

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Haha - Duncan posts up down low and gets double teams. Dirk gets to the FT by standing outside and falling to the ground on his jumpshots.

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Originally Posted by RonMexico

Um, that Utah loss was on the road in OT and like I said, they were working on chemistry issues (oh yeah, and Nash wasn't playing, because if he was there, I think he would have righted the ship and they would have won that game). You're basing this on one loss... In fact, it's even funnier because I was watching that game and Okur got 3 FTs at the end of regulation in a play very similar to the play for which you attack Ronnie Nunn.

Your record against above-.500 teams is still BELOW .500, so I don't know what your point is here... that we lost to the Mavs early in the season? Ok, congratulations.

Suns had back-to-backs against quality teams like Dallas, San Antonio, and Utah... not Memphis (like Mavs did) - if you don't win a B2B against Memphis, the league should contract your franchise.

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LMFAO, look at all these "what-ifs" "maybes" and lame ass excuses for your losses. You don't see the frickin' point? You have yet to beat a team in the West that will most certainly make the playoffs and you've had six chances to do so already. Oh but, you have your excuses to fall back on, so I guess that's something. I don't make excuses for the shitty start of our season, there really isn't any to make, everyone knows the date of game one so they should've been prepared. I'm not touting the Mavs win streak as any big accomplishment, I don't like several things about the way they're playing right now BUT at least we've managed to beat a couple of our contenders whereas you can't really say the same. Besides, my original post was in reference to some silly Suns fan telling Spurs/Mavs fans to watch out for the Suns. Watch out for what? We're not the Nets.

we fear nobody besides pops rotations