David Robinson was very underated in his time. Patrick Ewing, Hakeem Olajuwon, Dikembe Mutombo, and Alonzo Mourning were in no way as good as David Robinson.
Printable View
David Robinson was very underated in his time. Patrick Ewing, Hakeem Olajuwon, Dikembe Mutombo, and Alonzo Mourning were in no way as good as David Robinson.
whottt?
I'd say only Hakeem was better than DRob during his prime years.
in playoffs yesQuote:
Originally Posted by E20
but in the regular season.....drob in head to head matches had the better of it....too bad he didnt show up in the playoffs...we were always a win away from finals...
DRob is my favourite player ever, and will always be, but I have to agree with this. No-one else was close to those guys though. Knicks fans would say Ewing was, but he was a class below, and I used to love watching David school Shaq during his first 5 years. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by E20
David Robinson rules.
In one instance, the Spurs were two wins away from the Finals. That was while Hakeem was completely dominating David.Quote:
Originally Posted by TDMVPDPOY
Besides that, the Spurs never even got out of the second round, at least until Duncan came to town.
A Team with David Robinson and Charles Barkley could easily get to the ECF.
a team with Robert Parish could easily get to the ECF (this year).
Without a doubt, Robinson is my fav player of all time. Hakeem was better, and more dominant. He possessed things that Robinson didn't have. Might have been the coaching, might have been other things. But Hakeem was better. To simplify things, we played them once in the playoffs, with home court advantage, in the WCF, choked like shit (especially in game 1), etc...
Yes. He could even play in Olympics or WC semifinal and not get defeted more than 10 pts. :hat
No legitimate argument could ever hold ground favoring Ewing over Robinson. Exactly, Oz.Quote:
Originally Posted by RuffnReadyOzStyle
Even though Shaq and Robinson's careers overlapped for 11 years, I think you have to consider Shaq to be in a different "time" than Robinson.Quote:
Originally Posted by mavs4ever
Ewing, Dream and DRob all reached their primes all at the same time and had amazing, memorable matchups between them. In addition, they'll all within 3 years of age of each other. Shaq on the other hand is 10 years younger than Ewing, 9 years younger than Dream, and 7 years younger than David. He reached his prime after all three were either kinda washed up (DRob), totally washed up (Dream), or already assistant coaching (Ewing).
The real question that people should be asking is who was a better center between DRob and Shaq, considering that Shaq's career is pretty much doneskie. Shaq was David's bitch until DRob's back went to shit, then DRob was Shaq's bitch when he was old and tired. As far as the stats go, it looks like Shaq has David beat by 5.2 ppg, about 1 rpg, and 6% better FGs. Robinson was a much better shot blocker and overall defender (his third year in the league, he averaged 2.3 steals and 4.5 blocks per game...that's just ridiculous). Robinson also shot 21% better FTs. If you give Shaq three more years of mediocrity, his scoring and rebounding averages will dip just like DRob's did.
Shaq's got 1 MVP, so does David. Shaq also has 8 All-NBA First Teams compared to David's 4 (but consider Shaq's competition for that award was ridiculously less than DRob's). Shaq has three Finals MVPs, but he also made it to the Finals three times as the number 1 guy, whereas DRob won his rings as the number 2 (or number 5 or 6) guy. DRob has a DPOY, and Shaq hasn't really ever been strongly considered for that award.
In the end, if you're asking the question who was more dominant, you have to go with Shaq since his best years were as good as David's, but he had more of them. If you're asking about skill, it's obviously DRob since passing skills are probably a wash but DRob is better at everything else (unless you count shoving people out of the way with an elbow to the face and then dunking on them, a category in which Shaq is the greatest of all time). If you're asking about who would win a 1-on-1 matchup between prime David and prime Shaq, I think you'd have to take David just because he could shoot middies over Shaq all game and still do a good job of defending him down low. If you're asking who would I pick first on the playground, I think I'd pick David for two reasons:
a) I'm a Spurs homer and he's my favorite player of all time, and
b) Shaq would go number two, and I'd take my chances with DRob playing defense on him while being able to beat everyone down the floor after grabbing a defensive rebound and throwing down some sick alley-oop. Shaq can't stop that shit.
DRob was a pimp.
If he was on the Lakers his whole career a ton of shit would have been built and said about him being one of the best players ever to grace a court. He didn't. He stayed in SA and stayed low key and obviously honor means more than praise to godly men.
I was as big of a DRob fan as there was.....and I would put him #2 behind of Hakeem. I still think David is one of the best all time and a Hall of Fame player...more importantly (at least to me) he was a Hall of Fame person and in that regard I would put him #1.
I would agree with that.....David was on his way down when Shaq was hitting his peak. Down low, David, Hakeem and Ewing together could not stop Shaq...where David was succesful against him, especially early in Shaq's career, was when David could draw him outside of the paint and then go around him to the basket thanks to a quicker first step.Quote:
Even though Shaq and Robinson's careers overlapped for 11 years, I think you have to consider Shaq to be in a different "time" than Robinson.
What made him so good is that he could rebound, shoot the jumper, score from the post, and run the floor with the best of them. That's why an up-tempo game could always work during the Robinson years, but most of you act like such a game is sacriligious in the Spurs realm.
Uh, David could score in the paint, usually via a flash cut or a drive, but his miniscule post up game is why I give Hakeem the edge. David was really much more of a "4" on offense. I would give him a slight defensive edge on Dream, though. Dream was a great defender, but DRob was the best of the modern era at the "5" spot.
And look at all those championships it won.Quote:
Originally Posted by RonMexico
Robinson never could "score from the post" in any consistent way.
A young David Robinson would have owned today's game.
What post player today could have stood in front of David in his prime and stopped him from going to the basket without grabbing and holding on (even worse than in his day)?
With David's speed and ability to elevate he would have either made a basket or shot free throws every time he went to the hoop. And on defense? Forget about it...David would have owned the sorry excuses we have for centers in the league now.
Imagine Steve Nash feeding Robinson the ball. Scary to think about. David was Amare to the 3rd power.
40pts...17boards...7 blocks, on an average night.
I forgot how well Ben Wallace can... at least Robinson has 2 championships...Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Lanier
David Robinson was a Cream Puff who could only play weak-side defense, and rode Tim Duncan's coattails into glory.
AMEN
Hakeem and Ewing were better and I agree with Kobe up there.
Ewing was a loser, but most here have acknowledged that Hakeem was better.
The big coattail rider these days has been revealed as Kobe.Quote:
Originally Posted by KB24
shaq was a baby then but he could give a fight against these.Quote:
Originally Posted by exstatic
David Robinson OWNED Shaq until his back went south , both in numbers and head to head victories.Quote:
Originally Posted by stevallica
That really is not all that true. Even with a broken back and Shaq at his peak, Robinson held his ground on defense when guarding Shaq. Check the series stats of 2001 and 02.Quote:
Originally Posted by MosesGuthrie
lol no kidding, maybe even Dave CowensQuote:
Originally Posted by jaffies
I did. My opinion hasn't changed. IMO, Shaq was the most dominant low post force since Chamberlain and possibly ever. That still doesn't mean David sucked or anything because he didn't.Quote:
That really is not all that true. Even with a broken back and Shaq at his peak, Robinson held his ground on defense when guarding Shaq. Check the series stats of 2001 and 02.
:wtfQuote:
Originally Posted by ambchang
2001: In a 4-game sweep, Shaq averaged 27.0 points and 13 rebounds on 54% shooting in just 38 minutes per game.
I guess DRob looked good in comparison to the rest of the team trying to guard Bryant and Fisher that year.
The lack of a post up game is a BS criticism anyway...I don't give a flip what his post moves were, there was no one that could defend him one on one or stop him from getting to the basket. The only way to stop him was to foul him. Even at the end of his career guys like CWebb weren't quick enough to keep up with Drob if he was going to the basket on them. You bailed out and you fouled him...
That is the fact about his offensive game and that is why he kicked the shit out of any of these C's who tried to guard him.
Guarding Drob was a battle to stay off the bench in foul trouble. That was his post up game.
Drob sucked when he was double teamed...guess what, most C's do including Duncan and Shaq and Wilt. And unlike Shaq and Wilt and Duncan come to think of it...fouling DRob was not a smart move because he was a damn good FT shooter. Hakeem probably handled double teams better than any of them...but he still needed teamatates to punish opponents who doubled him. When he got them he won. When Shaq got them when he won. When Duncan has it, he wins.
Drob never had that....
His postup game was so shitty that he was usually doubled and tripled by the Rockets and Jazz in the playoffs.
And DRob was still to fast for Shaq even as an old man...the only reason his offense sucekd was because we didn't run plays for him. We ran them for Duncan. When we did them for DRob...he'd put up numbers on Shaq good. He put them up on the Blazers as well in 99.
Drob was a hell of a lot better than he gets credit for being, even from Spursfans...he never had a great supporting cast, and he did better than any of them with a shitty supporting cast.
And none of those guys won shit with a shitty supporting cast either. Hell Shaq was the shitty supporting cast last year.
Duncan has only had one coach. 50 had how many - Brown, Tark, that loser guy for one game, Lucas, Hill, maybe I'm forgetting someone...
While 50 didn't have the best players he had good players. But outside of asswipe Larry Brown, he never had a good coach until he was out of his prime. That, to me, is the biggest tragedy. He wasn't the go to guy with the game on the line like Manu is, but, for the vast majority of the rest of the game he was a statistical wonder. He made the team immensely better. This sounds like a dig, but he was the best role player of all time. He didn't want to be the star but he dominated the game through sheer force of raw talent. His rookie year was one of the best rookie years of all time. Ever. And yes, he would fare much better in today's sleeker game. Hakeem was a better basketball player in the end but they were of equal talent.
Hey now, Rex Hughes won that game! He never lost as Spurs coach! :lolQuote:
that loser guy for one game
You forgot Bob Bass who took over for Larry Brown before Tark came in.
Seriously though...good points.
Sorry, wrong years.Quote:
Originally Posted by Extra Stout
Should have been 2002 and 2003.
Shaq averaged 44%, 12.2 rpg, and 21.4ppg in 2002 vs the Spurs, and 56%, 14.3rpg, and 25.3ppg in 2003 vs. the Spurs.
These are still great numbers by most people’s standards, but given that DRob was singling Shaq in many plays, and with a broken back at an advantage, I wouldn’t say that DRob, Olajuwon and Ewing together in their primes couldn’t stop Shaq.
1. Jabbar
2. Wilt
3. Shaq
4. Hakeem
5. Admiral
Shaq moved up the list after last season. As PJax would say, winning a championship without Kobe was a huge feather in his cap.
Quote:
Originally Posted by slayermin
AMEN
there's one thing that I can say about DRob.. besides talents, I think he is an incredibly intelligent and humble sports person. Even in his last year in Spurs uniform, he did all the right things to win them the championship, and that did not just include taking a secondary role to Duncan (that to me is the smartest move of all from DRob). That included boxing out, being at the right place at the right time to block or swat away slashers, just playing defense immensely well. There is a reason why Spurs still have not found the replacement for DRob after all these years.
You mean fundamentals and team play wins championships? Robinson is a great center and I don't appreciate people telling me he "couldn't post-up." Admittedly, I ususally saw him only when he played the Suns (who never had a dominant big man to counteract D-Rob) and he could make some nifty moves from anywhere 15-feet in on the court.Quote:
Originally Posted by gilmor
What about Kevin Duckworth???
Ex-Spur.Quote:
Originally Posted by tlongII
Robinson was better as a face-the-basket player than as a back-to-the-basket player. He was potent offensively, but never developed that consistent, unstoppable "go-to" move. Duncan came out of college already with a more polished offensive game than Robinson, though David in his prime was three times the athlete Duncan was in his prime.Quote:
Originally Posted by RonMexico
I wouldn't put Jabbar in David's Era since Jabbar was leaving the league as Dave was entering. Wilt wasn't even in the league when Dave came in. Shaq didn't become his dominant self until after David had reached his prime. Dave's comp in his prime was Hakeem and Ewing. Ewing was over-rated and was in a lot of posters getting dunked on. Dave was a center that had moves like a forward. Hakeem was a center that had moves like a guard. Hard to argue with the list above (except swtiching #1 and #2) if we are talking all-time. But in Dave's prime the only other guy out there better was Hakeem.Quote:
Originally Posted by slayermin
Hey Sobe Kucks, I love the name!
@C Childs. Thanks! Your collage is pretty tight. I may get one made for my wall.
95 rockets > 95 spurs
drob couldn't carry the team and hakeem didn't have to.
as far as what it took to win a championship, duncan probably doesn't win in 99 (drob took over the games that duncan didn't) and 03. maybe even 05, i believe that duncan learned so much from drob.
kb24 hasn't learned that it's a team game. fortunately for kobe bryant, the player is smarter than the fan.
Because Wade is just a role player.... I see.Quote:
Originally Posted by slayermin
I was being sarcastic. PJax said the same about TD when he won ring number three in '05.Quote:
Originally Posted by Phenomanul
Negele Knight.
End of thread.
WOW!! That is deep. :smokinQuote:
Originally Posted by Dave McNulla
90s?
1. Hakeem Olajuwon
2. David Robinson
3. Patrick Ewing
4. Shaquille O'Neal