Six months later, long enough for him to trade his yellow Los Angeles Lakers jersey for the blue and orange of the Golden State Warriors, Derek Fisher is approached by strangers carrying the photograph.
Usually, they want an autograph. Fisher obliges, most of the time, using the opportunity to take one more look himself.
The photo, taken by Sports Illustrated's John W. McDonough, brilliantly captures the entire scene. The ball, 2 feet out of Fisher's left hand. The clock reading 0.0. Malik Rose and Tony Parker standing on the sideline, arm in arm.
The Spurs' ball boy squatting on the floor, eyes closed, teeth clenched around a towel, hands clasped as if in prayer. The female fan, dressed in white and black, holding her right index finger aloft, prematurely. The man directly in front of her, oblivious to everything, staring instead at his cell phone.
Veteran official Danny Crawford's left hand is resting on the clock-starting timer on his belt.
"It makes my skin crawl almost every time I see it," Fisher said. "Some people are looking at the shot like, 'Oh, no, it has a chance to go in.' Other people are still yelling and screaming, thinking the Spurs had won.
"Emotionally, each time you see it, it's like it happens all over again."
Tonight brings another reminder when Fisher makes his first public appearance in the SBC Center since he broke the hearts of the Spurs and their fans with his .4 catch-and-fling in Game 5 of last season's Western Conference semifinals.
Kobe Bryant and Shaquille O'Neal won't be with Fisher. The Warriors are now paying him $37 million over six seasons to help deliver them into the playoffs. Not that it will matter to the 17,000-plus in attendance.
"The different uniform isn't going to make any difference," said Fisher's friend and former teammate, Robert Horry. "They remember players. Fish was a Laker a long time, and last year was really fresh."
The Spurs have done their best to bury their own memories. Manu Ginobili hasn't seen a replay since the week after the Spurs' season ended. Asked about the shot during training camp, Bruce Bowen retorted, "What about it? That's in the past."
Fisher himself admits the significance of the shot lessened after the Lakers lost to Detroit in the NBA Finals.
"I think in our minds, especially because of how many tough battles we've had with the Spurs in recent playoff history, we felt like winning that game and winning that series would give us the momentum to really finish off the year with the title," Fisher said. "To me, that's what made it feel so good. I felt like that ... would carry us through, and it almost did.
"It could have had an even better place in history if our team could have accomplished our goal."
Ultimate drama
As it is, the final .4 seconds of Game 5 may long be remembered as one of the NBA's greatest tit-for-tat moments. The Spurs, seeking their second-straight championship, took a 2-0 lead in the conference semifinals only to have the Lakers even the series at home. The Lakers appeared to also have Game 5 locked up when they took a 16-point lead in the third quarter.
Energized by Devin Brown, the Spurs rallied. After Bryant put the Lakers back in front, Tim Duncan somehow arched an 18-foot moonball over O'Neal to give the Spurs a 73-72 lead with .4 seconds left — the minimum time allowed by rule by the NBA to get off a shot.
"We were more stunned, like, 'Man, how did we put ourselves in this position?'" Fisher said. "But, personally, at no point did I think it was over."
After the Lakers called timeout, the Spurs watched them set up then called one of their own. On Los Angeles' next inbound attempt, Gary Payton didn't see anything he liked and signaled for another 20-second timeout.
Lakers coach Phil Jackson changed the play, but Fisher said he never told Payton to look for him.
"In a split-second like that," Fisher said, "you have to be able to just naturally react."
Because there was too little time for Payton to get a return pass and shoot himself, the Spurs chose not to guard him. They instead doubled Bryant, who had made a pair of miracle shots in Portland two weeks earlier to give the Lakers the Pacific Division title.
Payton's first option was to get the ball to O'Neal near the rim, but O'Neal couldn't free himself quickly enough. With Bryant doubled, Payton threw a perfect pass to Fisher, who caught it and released the winning shot in the same motion.
"Defensively, there really wasn't much else that could have been done," Fisher said. "I was so focused on making the shot I didn't even see Manu in my face until I actually saw a picture of the shot. That's when I saw how close he really was to blocking the shot. He defended it perfectly."
Fisher ran off the floor before the officials reviewed the shot. The Spurs filed a formal protest, claiming the clock started late, but the league denied it a day later. If anything, TV replays indicated the officials erred by not putting more time on the clock after Duncan's basket.
Spurs coach Gregg Popovich called the Game 5 loss the cruelest he'd ever experienced.
"I've never gone from such a high," Tony Parker said, "to such a low."
Given a chance to even the series two nights later in Los Angeles, the Spurs hung close for 31/2 quarters but yielded down the stretch. Duncan, his own heroics rendered a footnote, congratulated Fisher on his shot prior to the final game.
"I told him I had to duplicate the greatness he showed on the play before that," Fisher said. "I still cannot imagine his feelings, after making the shot he made to almost secure the game to have someone turn around and make a shot like that right after."
Mario Elie, an assistant to Popovich last season who is now on Mike Montgomery's staff in Golden State, hasn't teased Fisher about the shot. Not even when the Warriors practiced at the SBC Center on Tuesday. Fisher, a hard-working veteran who has earned the respect of his peers, has primarily received only congratulations during his travels.
There have been a few exceptions. When Golden State played a preseason game in Sacramento last month, a Warriors official told Fisher he was surprised at how much Kings fans had booed him.
Fisher laughed.
"Just wait," he said, "until we get to San Antonio."
11-10-2004
Solid D
Re: Ludden: .4 shot follows Fisher
Step up Spurs!!! It's time for R - E - V - E - N - G - E!!! You've got to impose your will against the Fisher King of Shots. Will it be this, tonight?
I wonder how many Spurs fans will really step up and boo him.
11-10-2004
timvp
Re: Ludden: .4 shot follows Fisher
I still say he didn't get it off :pctoss
11-11-2004
iminlakerland
Re: Ludden: .4 shot follows Fisher
How did the game go? did they treat fish well? tell me tell me!
11-11-2004
Sec24Row7
Re: Ludden: .4 shot follows Fisher
He got boo'd every time he came in the game.
Not by me of course... I really don't think he is worth the air.
03-16-2020
LkrFan
Re: Ludden: .4 shot follows Fisher
Good times. Shout out to the Spurs clock operator being asleep at the wheel :toast
03-16-2020
Russ
Re: Ludden: .4 shot follows Fisher
Quote:
Originally Posted by LkrFan
Good times. Shout out to the Spurs clock operator being asleep at the wheel :toast
One question for our Laker friend.
In the 16 years since that game has any other team scored a game-winning basket with .4 seconds left (or less) in any of the thousands of NBA games since, regular season or playoffs?
03-16-2020
baseline bum
Re: Ludden: .4 shot follows Fisher
Quote:
Originally Posted by LkrFan
Good times. Shout out to the Spurs clock operator being asleep at the wheel :toast
I would wish you deported for this one, but you'd probably be safer on that side of the river so I won't report you to La Migra this time.
03-16-2020
daslicer
Re: Ludden: .4 shot follows Fisher
Quote:
Originally Posted by Russ
One question for our Laker friend.
In the 16 years since that game has any other team scored a game-winning basket with .4 seconds left (or less) in any of the thousands of NBA games since, regular season or playoffs?
It's happened with David Lee. Where he tipped in a shot with only .1 left on the clock.
03-16-2020
Seventyniner
Re: Ludden: .4 shot follows Fisher
Quote:
Originally Posted by daslicer
It's happened with David Lee. Where he tipped in a shot with only .1 left on the clock.
McDyess did that to the Lakers too when he was a Spur.
I remember Omer Asik of the Pelicans tipping the game-tying shot into his own basket at the AT&T Center on New Years' Eve too. I think that happened with almost no time on the clock.
03-17-2020
FkLA
Re: Ludden: .4 shot follows Fisher
Caught it in the air, at his hip, with his back to the basket. Landed, went back up, while turning, bringing the ball up to his head, and fading away. All in 0.4 seconds. Fuck outta here.
03-17-2020
ZeusWillJudge
Re: Ludden: .4 shot follows Fisher
Quote:
Originally Posted by LkrFan
Good times. Shout out to the Spurs clock operator being asleep at the wheel :toast
LOL. It was always known that the shot didn't get off within .4 seconds. But it did get off before the buzzer. The NBA had issued guidance to the refs that they were supposed to make calls based on actual time, and that they were the final word and not the buzzer. Pretty much custom made for a situation like that one. They ignored that, and went with the buzzer/light.
That being said, you have to give Fisher credit - it was a bitchin' shot under the ultimate pressure. And it's not that hard to understand that the refs didn't want to step in on a crucial playoff game between the two best teams in the league. I think they should have made the right ruling. If you're going to have instant replay, you should use it and let the chips fall. But I understand why they didn't. That's why they finally started having instant replay decisions made by an offsite official.
Yes Fisher made a great shot. No it didn't happen in .4 seconds. Yes the Lakers won the game. That last one is really the only one that matters. If it had been waved off, and the Spurs had gone on to win the LOB, there would still be some Laker fans talking about the one that got taken away. I guess that's part of the reason professional sports never get boring.
03-17-2020
Ed Helicopter Jones
Re: Ludden: .4 shot follows Fisher
It still hurts.
03-17-2020
phxspurfan
Re: Ludden: .4 shot follows Fisher
Quote:
Originally Posted by Russ
One question for our Laker friend.
In the 16 years since that game has any other team scored a game-winning basket with .4 seconds left (or less) in any of the thousands of NBA games since, regular season or playoffs?
This was close
03-17-2020
phxspurfan
Re: Ludden: .4 shot follows Fisher
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed Helicopter Jones
It still hurts.
Pistons would have destroyed us. They almost destroyed us in 05 too, we took several beat downs in games that year delivered by them.
03-17-2020
Prose
Re: Ludden: .4 shot follows Fisher
Quote:
Originally Posted by phxspurfan
Pistons would have destroyed us. They almost destroyed us in 05 too, we took several beat downs in games that year delivered by them.
yes the team that we beat in 7 in 2005...."almost destroyed us"
03-17-2020
lefty
Re: Ludden: .4 shot follows Fisher
I think the Pistons would have beaten us in 2004
We we better than them in 2005 but not in 2004
03-17-2020
Chillen
Re: Ludden: .4 shot follows Fisher
All you have to do is play a clip of that shot on youtube and check from the time the ball touches his hands and to when it's off his hands. A whole second and a half goes by, clearly the shot clock was started a second late with only .4 of a second on the shot clock. This is old news but yeah what could have been for the Spurs if they had won that game. The shot before it by Duncan was one of his greatest clutch shots. That was still a great shot by Fisher even if it shouldn't have counted, took him 1.4 seconds to get it off. Spurs were f**ed because the refs aren't going to change the outcome of a game because they started the shot clock a second late.
03-18-2020
Arcadian
Re: Ludden: .4 shot follows Fisher
Tim's shot was still better. Legendary. That's when he was the best player on earth, and he kept proving it time and time again. Whatever his team needed, he gave them.
03-18-2020
Spurtacular
Re: Ludden: .4 shot follows Fisher
Quote:
Originally Posted by Russ
One question for our Laker friend.
In the 16 years since that game has any other team scored a game-winning basket with .4 seconds left (or less) in any of the thousands of NBA games since, regular season or playoffs?
Quote:
Originally Posted by daslicer
It's happened with David Lee. Where he tipped in a shot with only .1 left on the clock.
Think he means real shots. NBA had come out and said 0.3 was the least amount of time someone could catch and shoot. Somehow. Fisher had time to catch, set, cock, fade, follow-through. What a f*ckin joke.
03-18-2020
ZeusWillJudge
Re: Ludden: .4 shot follows Fisher
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spurtacular
Think he means real shots. NBA had come out and said 0.3 was the least amount of time someone could catch and shoot. Somehow. Fisher had time to catch, set, cock, fade, follow-through. What a f*ckin joke.
Oh, it was worse than that.
The league had done a bunch of tests in a gym, with cameras set up to check times precisely. They decided that .4 seconds was the minimum amount of time to get off a "normal" shot. They issued guidance that if there was anything less than .4, the shot could only be a tip-in, or the game was automatically over without even a review. The video review system wasn't as polished as it is today, and that was done so that the refs wouldn't have to try and figure out 1/10th of a second differences on the fly. So .4 seconds was the minimum they said that a player could catch, cock, and fire. (Not turn, put the ball on the floor, and fade away.)
Most of you probably don't remember, but when Tim made his amazing shot on the previous play, the final buzzer sounded. The refs reviewed the video, to figure out if they should put time back on the clock. I was watching with friends and said, "Watch this... they're gonna put exactly four tenths back." That was no accident. They put back enough time to allow one last shot. If they had put back .3, that shot would have been disallowed without review.
03-18-2020
pad300
Re: Ludden: .4 shot follows Fisher
Quote:
Originally Posted by Russ
One question for our Laker friend.
In the 16 years since that game has any other team scored a game-winning basket with .4 seconds left (or less) in any of the thousands of NBA games since, regular season or playoffs?
Maybe my memory is tricking me, but I seem to recall the spurs had a game winning basket disallowed, the very next season, against Utah (again, IIRC).
03-18-2020
Spurtacular
Re: Ludden: .4 shot follows Fisher
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeusWillJudge
Oh, it was worse than that.
The league had done a bunch of tests in a gym, with cameras set up to check times precisely. They decided that .4 seconds was the minimum amount of time to get off a "normal" shot. They issued guidance that if there was anything less than .4, the shot could only be a tip-in, or the game was automatically over without even a review. The video review system wasn't as polished as it is today, and that was done so that the refs wouldn't have to try and figure out 1/10th of a second differences on the fly. So .4 seconds was the minimum they said that a player could catch, cock, and fire. (Not turn, put the ball on the floor, and fade away.)
Most of you probably don't remember, but when Tim made his amazing shot on the previous play, the final buzzer sounded. The refs reviewed the video, to figure out if they should put time back on the clock. I was watching with friends and said, "Watch this... they're gonna put exactly four tenths back." That was no accident. They put back enough time to allow one last shot. If they had put back .3, that shot would have been disallowed without review.
Well, I agree that the Laker refs were not going to follow the guidance. And I believe that that clock keeper sucks at his job whether or not he was paid off.
However, Fisher did not put the ball on the ground.
If you watch, you'll see that the ball was all the way through at 0.6; so, I'm surprised that the refs didn't add time.
I'll add that Manu was trying not to commit the foul, but he needed to put real pressure and not just half-ass jump.
I'll also say, Fisher did the full fade and follow-through in .4? I think it's been timed and it was really .8 IIRC.
LOL. It was always known that the shot didn't get off within .4 seconds. But it did get off before the buzzer. The NBA had issued guidance to the refs that they were supposed to make calls based on actual time, and that they were the final word and not the buzzer. Pretty much custom made for a situation like that one. They ignored that, and went with the buzzer/light.
That being said, you have to give Fisher credit - it was a bitchin' shot under the ultimate pressure. And it's not that hard to understand that the refs didn't want to step in on a crucial playoff game between the two best teams in the league. I think they should have made the right ruling. If you're going to have instant replay, you should use it and let the chips fall. But I understand why they didn't. That's why they finally started having instant replay decisions made by an offsite official.
Yes Fisher made a great shot. No it didn't happen in .4 seconds. Yes the Lakers won the game. That last one is really the only one that matters. If it had been waved off, and the Spurs had gone on to win the LOB, there would still be some Laker fans talking about the one that got taken away. I guess that's part of the reason professional sports never get boring.
I give Fisher zero credit he was under no pressure to hit that shot since everybody including probably himself felt there was no chance the Lakers could win the game. Plus he's a role player so there's even less pressure when you are a role player versus being a star in a playoff game. If anything that shot saved Fisher's career. Never liked Fisher the player or the person prior to that shot. I always thought he was a smug ass kisser evident by him kissing Shaq ass and getting Nick Van Exel traded. I also felt he was low key a dirty player that pretended to be a good guy. A lot of people at ate that up but I never did. Anyways didn't think he deserved to have that moment but it happened thanks to the league and the shot clock operator.
Duncan's shot would have gone down as the greatest playoff game winner in NBA history had the Fisher shot not counted. Even better than Jordan's shot on Ehlo. It really sucks we got deprived of seeing Tim have that historical moment. It would also had been great to see Shaq having to go to therapy for years to deal with that type of humiliation since he has a fragile ego. I did enjoy Duncan's shot for a brief moment when I saw Malone,Shaq,Kobe,and Payton looking like they were about to cry. They would have been in tears had the league and shot clock operator not saved them. Would have been nice to beat the Lakers 2 years in a row and humble Phil Jackson,Kobe,Shaq. That's something their egos would have had a hard time handling
03-18-2020
UZER
Re: Ludden: .4 shot follows Fisher
If the Spurs make that same shot, the refs waive it off, PERIOD, especially in LA.
Just look at the Fisher on Barry no-call 4 years later.
03-18-2020
daslicer
Re: Ludden: .4 shot follows Fisher
Quote:
Originally Posted by UZER
If the Spurs make that same shot, the refs waive it off, PERIOD, especially in LA.
Just look at the Fisher in Barry no call 4 years later.
Pretty much why I don't respect some of the titles those Laker teams won. I felt in '00 and '02 the Lakers win because of the refs. I'll give them credit for '01 but even in the finals they needed the refs to help guard AI. I remember them allowing Tyron Lue to hold AI's hand and arm on every possession after game 1. They would have still won that series in '01 without that dirty tactic but it shows you how much the refs were in their pocket. One thing the Laker title runs during '00s taught me is that not all title runs are to be respected. There are certain teams due to market size and media favor ability that will get special treatment.
03-18-2020
Spurtacular
Re: Ludden: .4 shot follows Fisher
Quote:
Originally Posted by daslicer
If anything that shot saved Fisher's career. Never liked Fisher the player or the person prior to that shot. I always thought he was a smug ass kisser e
Yea, I do kind of remember him being on thin ice. My initial impression of the guy before the Lakers even rang was that he was a guy who would be selling drugs if he wasn't in the NBA. I stopped feeling that way eventually; but maybe I was right all the same.
03-18-2020
Spurtacular
Re: Ludden: .4 shot follows Fisher
Quote:
Originally Posted by daslicer
Pretty much why I don't respect some of the titles those Laker teams won. I felt in '00 and '02 the Lakers win because of the refs. I'll give them credit for '01 but even in the finals they needed the refs to help guard AI. I remember them allowing Tyron Lue to hold AI's hand and arm on every possession after game 1. They would have still won that series in '01 without that dirty tactic but it shows you how much the refs were in their pocket. One thing the Laker title runs during '00s taught me is that not all title runs are to be respected. There are certain teams due to market size and media favor ability that will get special treatment.
In the 08 playoffs Game 1, Spurs were up by like 15 or 20 and then the Lakers were just allowed to hit Parker and Manu on drives like they were linebackers. Don't think the Spurs ever complained. And even few or no other Spurs fans here other than me really complained about that long after the fact. But I was watching and was shocked by how blatant it was. Refs learned a valuable blueprint on that. IMO, that's how the Miami Heat were later made.
That game really took the air out of the Spurs balloon. It would have been a totally different series with different officiating. In fact, I think that 08 Lakers team lacked confidence and would have shat the bed against a team with Spurs championship pedigree in Game 2 and it would've all been over.
03-18-2020
Spurtacular
Re: Ludden: .4 shot follows Fisher
Quote:
Originally Posted by daslicer
Duncan's shot would have gone down as the greatest playoff game winner in NBA history had the Fisher shot not counted.
I went to great lengths to make sure I caught the last five minutes of that game as I was working that day. I caught it in a sports bar, and I was shocked that it went in; totally stunned! Yea, now only Spurs fans would even ever talk about that shot.
03-18-2020
daslicer
Re: Ludden: .4 shot follows Fisher
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spurtacular
In the 08 playoffs Game 1, Spurs were up by like 15 or 20 and then the Lakers were just allowed to hit Parker and Manu on drives like they were linebackers. Don't think the Spurs ever complained. And even few or no other Spurs fans here other than me really complained about that long after the fact. But I was watching and was shocked by how blatant it was. Refs learned a valuable blueprint on that. IMO, that's how the Miami Heat were later made.
That game really took the air out of the Spurs balloon. It would have been a totally different series with different officiating. In fact, I think that 08 Lakers team lacked confidence and would have shat the bed against a team with Spurs championship pedigree in Game 2 and it would've all been over.
Lakers were always allowed to hack and play dirty against the Spurs whenever they were down. Remember in '04 when the Spurs went up 2-0 and suddenly the refs allowed Malone to play Draymond Green like defense once the series went to LA. He was allowed to hold and grab Duncan on every possession along with knocking the shit out of Parker and Ginobilli and not being called for it. I agree with you on the WCF game 1 in '08. If the Lakers lose that game they are buried confidence wise and fall apart. Hell I give the Spurs a 50-50 chance of winning the series if Brent was allowed to shoot those freethrows in game 4.
Anyways I always hated playing the Lakers due to the fact that not only did you have to be good enough to beat them but you also had to be good enough to overcome the refs. It was always like a handicap match.
03-18-2020
daslicer
Re: Ludden: .4 shot follows Fisher
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spurtacular
Yea, I do kind of remember him being on thin ice. My initial impression of the guy before the Lakers even rang was that he was a guy who would be selling drugs if he wasn't in the NBA. I stopped feeling that way eventually; but maybe I was right all the same.
I never liked him from day 1. Whenever he got outplayed I would always see him throw temper tantrums and start throwing cheap shots at whoever was outplaying him. For example I remember a rooke Tony Parker schooling him in game 3 of the Spurs vs lakers in '02. Fisher lost his cool threw a cheap shot at Tony. I think it was either an elbow or he just threw him to the ground. Parker confronts him then Bitch Fox comes to Fisher's aide and both get up in his face. I remember even back in '14 when the Thunder were going to lose game 5 of WCF that he threw a cheap shot at Baynes. I remember Jeff Ayers getting up in Fisher's face and then seeing Fisher nearly in tears and backing away.
Stuff like that always enraged me. It's bitch made to go after guys simply because they are outplaying you.
03-18-2020
UNT Eagles 2016
Re: Ludden: .4 shot follows Fisher
Quote:
Originally Posted by daslicer
I never liked him from day 1. Whenever he got outplayed I would always see him throw temper tantrums and start throwing cheap shots at whoever was outplaying him. For example I remember a rooke Tony Parker schooling him in game 3 of the Spurs vs lakers in '02. Fisher lost his cool threw a cheap shot at Tony. I think it was either an elbow or he just threw him to the ground. Parker confronts him then Bitch Fox comes to Fisher's aide and both get up in his face. I remember even back in '14 when the Thunder were going to lose game 5 of WCF that he threw a cheap shot at Baynes. I remember Jeff Ayers getting up in Fisher's face and then seeing Fisher nearly in tears and backing away.
Stuff like that always enraged me. It's bitch made to go after guys simply because they are outplaying you.
It's just a damn helluva fucking shame that Fisher wasn't on that helicopter.
03-18-2020
UNT Eagles 2016
Re: Ludden: .4 shot follows Fisher
Quote:
Originally Posted by daslicer
Lakers were always allowed to hack and play dirty against the Spurs whenever they were down. Remember in '04 when the Spurs went up 2-0 and suddenly the refs allowed Malone to play Draymond Green like defense once the series went to LA. He was allowed to hold and grab Duncan on every possession along with knocking the shit out of Parker and Ginobilli and not being called for it. I agree with you on the WCF game 1 in '08. If the Lakers lose that game they are buried confidence wise and fall apart. Hell I give the Spurs a 50-50 chance of winning the series if Brent was allowed to shoot those freethrows in game 4.
Anyways I always hated playing the Lakers due to the fact that not only did you have to be good enough to beat them but you also had to be good enough to overcome the refs. It was always like a handicap match.
I don't think Barry should have got FTs in 2008. Let the players play. The Spurs just looked outmatched and fighting for their lives after they choked away Game 1.
I also think that Dogface shouldn't have gotten the FT in 2006 when Manu got 95% ball and 5% hand, in a playoff game 7 that's not a foul, especially if Gay Allen's hack on Manu's wrist at the end of OT in 6 wasn't a foul.
03-18-2020
daslicer
Re: Ludden: .4 shot follows Fisher
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spurtacular
Yea, I do kind of remember him being on thin ice. My initial impression of the guy before the Lakers even rang was that he was a guy who would be selling drugs if he wasn't in the NBA. I stopped feeling that way eventually; but maybe I was right all the same.
He was on real thin ice that season. His numbers were straight up garbage. He was barely averaging 7 points a game on 35 percent shooting overall and only 29 percent shooting from 3. I remember Laker fans wanting him off the team that year because he was just that bad. Crappy defender and crappy shooter that year. Plus he was an FA in the summer of '04. If he doesn't hit that shot no team would have touched him. But because of that shot it extended his career.
03-18-2020
daslicer
Re: Ludden: .4 shot follows Fisher
Quote:
Originally Posted by UNT Eagles 2016
I don't think Barry should have got FTs in 2008. Let the players play. The Spurs just looked outmatched and fighting for their lives after they choked away Game 1.
I also think that Dogface shouldn't have gotten the FT in 2006 when Manu got 95% ball and 5% hand, in a playoff game 7 that's not a foul, especially if Gay Allen's hack on Manu's wrist at the end of OT in 6 wasn't a foul.
I have played hschool ball and I still play ball on the streets. I can say in both atmospheres that it's an obvious foul what Dfish did to Barry. Dfish jumped and threw his whole entire body into Barry when he was dribbling and about to go up for his shot. If you don't call that foul on the streets guys will start yelling at you and in some cases even fight you.
I didn't like seeing Dirk go to the line but Manu committed an obvious dumb foul. My problem was at the end of that game when Dirk and I think it was Dampier hacked Duncan when he tried to win the game and they didn't give Duncan the foul. That was bs.
03-18-2020
ZeusWillJudge
Re: Ludden: .4 shot follows Fisher
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spurtacular
Well, I agree that the Laker refs were not going to follow the guidance. And I believe that that clock keeper sucks at his job whether or not he was paid off.
However, Fisher did not put the ball on the ground.
If you watch, you'll see that the ball was all the way through at 0.6; so, I'm surprised that the refs didn't add time.
I'll add that Manu was trying not to commit the foul, but he needed to put real pressure and not just half-ass jump.
I'll also say, Fisher did the full fade and follow-through in .4? I think it's been timed and it was really .8 IIRC.
You're right - Fisher didn't put the ball on the floor. His was just moving away from the basket, so that he had to catch and turn before taking the shot. Still not possible within the NBA's guidance. They got rid of it the next season. I also agree that they could have (and probably should have) put .6 on the clock anyway.
My point was that it was just a piss-poor use of the instant replay, all the way around. If you're going to use it, you should use it right. I think it was the second year for replay, but they still should have done a better job than that.
That was about the same time the NBA had people reviewing referees after games, but several of the people they had looking at film weren't even from a basketball background. That was a dark age for NBA officiating. It's gotten a lot better since then.
03-18-2020
Spurtacular
Re: Ludden: .4 shot follows Fisher
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeusWillJudge
You're right - Fisher didn't put the ball on the floor. His was just moving away from the basket, so that he had to catch and turn before taking the shot. Still not possible within the NBA's guidance. They got rid of it the next season. I also agree that they could have (and probably should have) put .6 on the clock anyway.
My point was that it was just a piss-poor use of the instant replay, all the way around. If you're going to use it, you should use it right. I think it was the second year for replay, but they still should have done a better job than that.
That was about the same time the NBA had people reviewing referees after games, but several of the people they had looking at film weren't even from a basketball background. That was a dark age for NBA officiating. It's gotten a lot better since then.
Legit conspiracies aside, the refs hands were tied. They have to go off the replay and the clock as it functioned. Had they taken out a stop watch, sure that might've been something. But it wasn't in the rules. It still isn't.
If it had been 0.6 Manu would have played tougher defense. With 0.4 he understood how tough it was to get off a real shot in that time and he didn't want to bail out Fisher on a foul.
Lakers were always allowed to hack and play dirty against the Spurs whenever they were down. Remember in '04 when the Spurs went up 2-0 and suddenly the refs allowed Malone to play Draymond Green like defense once the series went to LA. He was allowed to hold and grab Duncan on every possession along with knocking the shit out of Parker and Ginobilli and not being called for it. I agree with you on the WCF game 1 in '08. If the Lakers lose that game they are buried confidence wise and fall apart. Hell I give the Spurs a 50-50 chance of winning the series if Brent was allowed to shoot those freethrows in game 4.
Anyways I always hated playing the Lakers due to the fact that not only did you have to be good enough to beat them but you also had to be good enough to overcome the refs. It was always like a handicap match.
That’s Phil Jackson’s coaching. He knew the bigger market star teams can get away with more especially in 4th quarters. It’s something Steve Kerr has taught his team as well. Look at the Lakers, look at the Bulls, look at the Warriors. That’s why it would always seem like their team’s intensity went up another level, and the Spurs would start struggling. They really started struggling because all of a sudden, their getting pushed, pulled, grabbed, held, and the refs suddenly swallowed the whistle.
03-19-2020
daslicer
Re: Ludden: .4 shot follows Fisher
Quote:
Originally Posted by UZER
That’s Phil Jackson’s coaching. He knew the bigger market star teams can get away with more especially in 4th quarters. It’s something Steve Kerr has taught his team as well. Look at the Lakers, look at the Bulls, look at the Warriors. That’s why it would always seem like their team’s intensity went up another level, and the Spurs would start struggling. They really started struggling because all of a sudden, their getting pushed, pulled, grabbed, held, and the refs suddenly swallowed the whistle.
Agreed. A team that has media favorability is always going to be allowed to get away with being physical in the 4th quarter along with getting phantom touch fouls on the offensive end that allows them to get to the line. I look at even OKC with Durant-Westbrook they were allowed to get away with a lot of shit. I'm still amazed at how the Spurs were able to beat them in '14. It took a lot of win game 6 in OKC. I remember Ibaka getting away with goal tending at the end and thinking the Spurs were going to lose. They showed a lot of will power and mental fortitude to stay in that game despite the refs.
03-20-2020
lefty
Re: Ludden: .4 shot follows Fisher
Refs refs refs
Yeah maybe the refs helped the Lakers
That, right there, is why I fucking hate Pop sometimes
His « don’t complain to the refs like other teams players do, be classy, we’re better than this gneugneu » mantra brought us jack and shit
When Jackson whined to the refs, with both the Bulls and Lakers, it paid off
03-20-2020
KobesAchilles
Re: Ludden: .4 shot follows Fisher
I remember the rule vividly. With .4 second a player can catch and shoot only. Fisher caught, turned, and shot which was literally against the written NBA rule book. But I blame the shitty ass Spurs personal as much as anything. He started the clock late. Same mother fucker who robbed Duncan of his quadruple double in the NBA finals. I will never forget ABC showing Duncan with 9 blocks after he clearly blocked the ball only for the Spurs recorder to give the block to someone else. Ridiculous. Spurs have the worst home cooking period.
Also pisses me off how scrubs/stars always go off against us and just shit the bed in the Finals. Like y’all should’ve just lost to us like the losers that you are instead of embarrassing yourself like that on the biggest stage. Fisher shot like 17% on 3s in the 04 Finals. Dirk going for 40 and being clutch only for him to shrink like a coward in the finals. Kobe losing by 36 on his own damn home court to close out the series. Harden too scared to shoot the fucking ball after hitting dagger after dagger against us. CP3 losing a 3-1 series. Just too many times where I think man why the fuck did y’all show up against the Spurs if you were gonna be such a pussy later on. Rant over :lol
03-20-2020
Arcadian
Re: Ludden: .4 shot follows Fisher
I love how the Spurs dynasty was a roller coaster, with equally memorable ups and downs.
I especially love how every time something tragic happened, the Spurs made up for it the following year.
Tragedy of '04 --> Ring '05
Tragedy of '06 --> Ring '07
Tragedy of '13 --> Ring '14
Doesn't get sweeter than that.
05-16-2020
UNT Eagles 2016
Re: Ludden: .4 shot follows Fisher
Quote:
Originally Posted by daslicer
I have played hschool ball and I still play ball on the streets. I can say in both atmospheres that it's an obvious foul what Dfish did to Barry. Dfish jumped and threw his whole entire body into Barry when he was dribbling and about to go up for his shot. If you don't call that foul on the streets guys will start yelling at you and in some cases even fight you.
I didn't like seeing Dirk go to the line but Manu committed an obvious dumb foul. My problem was at the end of that game when Dirk and I think it was Dampier hacked Duncan when he tried to win the game and they didn't give Duncan the foul. That was bs.
