Ludden: Duncan not done yet

Duncan not done yet: Even as next generation shines, Spurs veteran shows staying power

Web Posted: 03/01/2007 10:51 PM CST

http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/b...c.35e8a30.html

Johnny Ludden
Express-News

Three weeks later, Tim Duncan still hasn't seen a replay of the dunk. Once, apparently, was enough.

Duncan looked up that Friday night in Orlando to see 21-year-old Dwight Howard suspended 2 feet above him, his right arm cocked like a revolver hammer. In a flash, Howard was punching the ball through the rim, sending the Spurs to one of their most frustrating losses of the season.

Duncan purposely avoided turning on the TV after the game and hasn't had much reason since to see the play. Taking bait from a reporter during All-Star weekend, he offered to again play the straight man for Howard if the Magic's young center wanted to re-create his stunning flush during the dunk contest. He's also sure Howard would have won the event had he done so.

"It was a ridiculous play," said Duncan, 30. "Although I could have done some things differently (defensively), it was just impressive."

Howard is in town tonight, fresh off his first All-Star appearance. He was joined in Las Vegas by Phoenix's Amare Stoudemire and Toronto's Chris Bosh, giving the NBA a trio of young big men, none of whom is older than 24, with broad enough shoulders to carry the league for years to come.

But while one recent magazine cover story rightfully crowned Howard "Next," Duncan has also proven he still has some staying power, averaging 20.3 points, 10.8 rebounds and 2.3 blocks while shooting 53.4 percent, his highest since his rookie season.

"Defensively, offensively, rebounding — it's amazing that people don't talk about him," Toronto coach Sam Mitchell said. "But you know what it tells you? An under-appreciation for just how good he's been for so long. People don't appreciate that, but ask any GM what player, right now, they'd rather have."

Duncan would probably laugh at that. He is nearly 10 years Howard's senior, on the backside of his own career. Recently asked about 19-year-old Andrew Bynum, the Los Angeles Lakers' promising young center, Duncan quipped, "Everyone's young to me. I'm like 40 now."

"Those guys are going to be awesome for a lot of years," Duncan said of Howard, Stoudemire and Bosh. "I'm a little biased, but it's good to see great guys at that position.

"There's a crop of guards, the LeBrons, the Dwyane Wades, who are going to be the future of the league. But to know there are guys at your position who are going to continue to represent the big guys, that actually does mean something."

Duncan marvels at the athleticism of his younger peers. Even in his younger days he never possessed the same kiss-the-sky ability. To say Duncan has lost a step suggests he actually had one to lose.

"I'm not athletic, but I'm slow, which helps," Duncan joked. "I have to find a different way to do it."

So far, his way continues to be effective. Duncan remains one of the game's most dangerous post scorers — on Wednesday he introduced Toronto rookie Andrea Bargnani to his signature up-and-under move — and appears to have regained confidence in his bank shot. In the past 11 games, he's even made 76.9 percent of his free throws.

Most importantly, Duncan said he feels as healthy as he's been in three years, having played in every game this season. "God willing," he said, "it stays that way."

Duncan endured enough pain last season. Although he missed only one game because of injury (and that was because of the flu), he played on a sore right foot the entire season, which contributed to him averaging a career-low 18.6 points.

After a summer of rest followed by a couple months of intensive conditioning work, Duncan arrived in training camp looking strong and fit. Yet questions still arose about the state of his game in December when his rebounding and help defense was lacking. It wasn't unusual to hear coach Gregg Popovich yelling at Duncan from the sideline (or even the occasional film session) to remove his head from his rear.

"We have our tiffs a couple times a year," Duncan said. "You deal with it. Sometimes he's right, sometimes he's wrong."

Popovich wanted Duncan to worry less about the officiating and more about his game. Duncan, for the most part, has followed those orders, averaging 11.7 rebounds and 2.9 blocks since Jan. 1. Against Phoenix last month, he blocked dunk attempts by both Stoudemire and Shawn Marion.

"I think he's trying to set a tone for everybody," Popovich said. "He's not a towel waver, but he's a great leader by example.

"Hopefully we'll get guys falling in line with that and becoming more focused because they see Timmy."

The Spurs' current six-game winning streak could be evidence of just that. After the Spurs routed his Raptors on Wednesday, Bosh said Duncan, who totaled 24 points, 16 rebounds, four blocks and four assists, looked "fresh."

"He's always going to be in the conversation for best big man in the league as long as he's in the league," Bosh said. "He can come out and have big games whether he's going to score 30 or 10 or 12. He's going to force his will on the game."

Duncan gets another tough test tonight. After facing Howard in Orlando last season, he said he hoped to be out of the league by the time the muscle-bound center started peaking.

"I don't think that's going to happen," Duncan said Thursday, "unless I leave soon."

But looking healthy and strong himself? Duncan could have reason to stick around a while.

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It wasn't unusual to hear coach Gregg Popovich yelling at Duncan from the sideline (or even the occasional film session) to remove his head from his rear.

"We have our tiffs a couple times a year," Duncan said. "You deal with it. Sometimes he's right, sometimes he's wrong."

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:lol Awesome.

This is why no one could coach the Spurs quite like Pop. He can call out Duncan and Duncan responds. After all these years, the fact that Duncan hasn't tuned out Pop is a main reason why the Spurs remain contenders. Since Pop called out Duncan earlier in the year, he's played much better.

Phil Jackson and Avery Johnson are probably better coaches, but as long as Pop can still motivate Tim and the rest of the big three, he's the guy I want on the sidelines.

Um...I don't see how you can conclude straight up that AJ is a better coach than Pop.

Phil Jackson - 9 Rings
AJ - A huge choke

Quite a bit of difference there...and AJ has a got a buttload of $$$$ behind him as well as a completely smooth transition to coach.


We'll see. I have the feeling that AJ is going to be the type that wears on his players.

I still think Duncan has some of his best post season performances ahead of him. He's still at a point where his body is able to do what he wants it to, and that's the most important factor for a big man. I think he will find the game comes easier at some point as he ages, and he will put up a few amazing post seasons that will blow what came before out of the water.

He's no longer young, but he still knows the game better than any of 'em just coming into their own. I am looking forward to what is sure to be another great 3-4 year ride of Duncan's dominance.

He doesn't have to give up his mantle just yet. He can always make them take it from him.

Duncan has an opt out clause right?

Good, that means he still has some leverage with the Spurs Brass....

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Originally Posted by whottt

Um...I don't see how you can conclude straight up that AJ is a better coach than Pop.

Phil Jackson - 9 Rings
AJ - A huge choke

Quite a bit of difference there...and AJ has a got a buttload of $$$$ behind him as well as a completely smooth transition to coach.


We'll see. I have the feeling that AJ is going to be the type that wears on his players.

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Did you not watch AJ run circles around Pop in last year's playoffs?

As of this second, I'd say that AJ is a better coach than Pop. Dallas has pretty good talent but 70 wins? That's just sick with that team.

Oh and AJ got his coaching ring in '99.

But again, like I said, Pop >>>>> AJ in terms of who would be better coaching this team. Phil Jackson vs. Pop would be closer, but I'd still go with Pop.

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Originally Posted by SilverPlayer

I still think Duncan has some of his best post season performances ahead of him. He's still at a point where his body is able to do what he wants it to, and that's the most important factor for a big man. I think he will find the game comes easier at some point as he ages, and he will put up a few amazing post seasons that will blow what came before out of the water.

He's no longer young, but he still knows the game better than any of 'em just coming into their own. I am looking forward to what is sure to be another great 3-4 year ride of Duncan's dominance.

He doesn't have to give up his mantle just yet. He can always make them take it from him.

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The thing that TD has going for him, is the fact that he was never really athletic to begin with like he states in the article. Tim has always had one of the best low post games in the league. God Bless the Big Fundamental. :fro

nice read


pop and jackson are in a league of there own in terms of X and O's and general coaching

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Originally Posted by timvp

Did you not watch AJ run circles around Pop in last year's playoffs?

As of this second, I'd say that AJ is a better coach than Pop. Dallas has pretty good talent but 70 wins? That's just sick with that team.

Oh and AJ got his coaching ring in '99.

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AJ did a good job, but Pop was exceptionally shitty in that series. He was stubborn about the lineups he used and he flatly refused any lineup that might have forced the Mavs to adjust.

Pop is too much of a counterpuncher sometimes.


In any case, Elson allows Pop to use his traditional 2 bigmen lineup without going small...let's see what changes now.

It won't be 48 mins of Finley at C again...that's for sure.

Honestly, it wasn't that hard for AJ to outcoach Pop when Pop was the one outcoaching himself.

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Originally Posted by whottt

Pop is too much of a counterpuncher sometimes.

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Pop has always been a counter puncher. That's part of his coaching philosophy. He let's teams dictate the style of play and then he puts the personnel on the court he thinks best matches up.

It's worked rather well over the years. But when it doesn't work (vs. the Lakers in '01 and last year vs. the Mavs), it can get ugly.

I want to add something to that...

If we play the Mavs in the POs again this year, and if at the end of the series Elson has logged about 5 total minutes of PT? I want Pop fired.

Let him go have a pissing contest with AJ on his own dime, without shitting on Duncan's greatness in the process.

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Originally Posted by timvp

...

Oh and AJ got his coaching ring in '99.

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He should have given it to Doc Rivers.

a rookie or young tim duncan > all those fuckn clowns mentioned, the day he arrived in the nba he was top5 player in the league and top3 ever in his 2nd yr giving malone a run for his money on the mvp.

i still take duncans tip in dunk against the bucks over d12s tip-in, or that fuckn dunk against the blazers in the playoffs in 99 over 3 clowns. the only person in the league right now that looks like a young tim duncan is bosh, if he bulks up and improves his defense and low post scoring = TD.

TD can play till his 40 if he wanted to, all he relys on is better positioning and motion of the game, if you move i move :D. if he concentrated only on defense like drob, would his defensive stats be superior what camby is posting up as a defensive stopper only....

TD is fuckn god of bball

Still great, but undeniably needing more help these days. Gone forever is the sense that he can dominate night in and night out. Pickin' his spots is what it's about now.

He'll go for it harder in the playoffs I believe and prove to the world he really is the best.

Last year look at his numbers in them...that man will be a freaking beast assuming he stays in good condition.

It will be a very sad day when finally does decide to "hang 'em up".

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Originally Posted by timvp

Did you not watch AJ run circles around Pop in last year's playoffs?

As of this second, I'd say that AJ is a better coach than Pop. Dallas has pretty good talent but 70 wins? That's just sick with that team.

Oh and AJ got his coaching ring in '99.

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I f Pop had gotten his way over Buford and drafted Josh Howard who'd be the genius coach? Fact is the Spurs had less overall talent than the Mavs and matched up poorly but Pop came within a bonehead Manu move of pulling off a great series victory.

I'd say Pop and Jackson are both pretty equally talented coaches in their own ways. AJ has yet to prove himself. As someone said, so far, all he's done is prove himself to be a big choke, esp since he's got so much money behind him trying to buy a championship. But you have to win it.

Pop is exceptional at working with raw talent that is motivated to work hard and learn. Players like Duncan and Manu, who are determined, excel here. Players like Stephen Jackson who have talent but need/want discipline, excel here. But players who are battling their own egos (Dennis Rodman, for eg) are not a good fit for Pop's style, because he has no patience for them. Those are the players (Kobe, MJ) who tend to excel under Jackson, who coaches with philosophy more than x's and o's.

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Originally Posted by TDMVPDPOY

i still take duncans tip in dunk against the bucks over d12s tip-in, or that fuckn dunk against the blazers in the playoffs in 99 over 3 clowns. the only person in the league right now that looks like a young tim duncan is bosh, if he bulks up and improves his defense and low post scoring = TD.

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No ways is Bosh remotely close to TD in ANY aspect of the game. He is primarily a face-up SF type player on offense, he comes over for help defense at the wrong times, he doesn’t even box out or play fundamental defense on man (OK, I know you mentioned improve his D part, but Bosh has to turn into another person on D to be even remotely close to Duncan).
Bosh is closer to a no-defense KG, which is kind of hard to visualize because KG is no slouch on D himself.

Nice article.

"I'm not athletic, but I'm slow, which helps,"

iow, "I'm a manufactured player (like Tony), not a natural athlete"

Man, this stuff just pumps me up for tonight's game!!!

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Originally Posted by whottt

Um...I don't see how you can conclude straight up that AJ is a better coach than Pop.

Phil Jackson - 9 Rings
AJ - A huge choke

Quite a bit of difference there...and AJ has a got a buttload of $$$$ behind him as well as a completely smooth transition to coach.


We'll see. I have the feeling that AJ is going to be the type that wears on his players.

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What a shock. whottt doesn't think AJ is any good.

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Originally Posted by timvp

Pop has always been a counter puncher. That's part of his coaching philosophy. He let's teams dictate the style of play and then he puts the personnel on the court he thinks best matches up.

It's worked rather well over the years. But when it doesn't work (vs. the Lakers in '01 and last year vs. the Mavs), it can get ugly.

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He wasn't a counterpuncher in 99.

Oh, yeah, that's right, he wasn't the coach then.

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Originally Posted by ShoogarBear

What a shock. whottt doesn't think AJ is any good.

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Link?


Phil = 9 Rings
Pop = 3 Rings
AJ = A huge choke


And before you talk about him being a new coach...go look at what Phil and Pop did as new coaches.

Amazingly, neither choked to a team they should have destroyed.

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Originally Posted by ShoogarBear

He wasn't a counterpuncher in 99.

Oh, yeah, that's right, he wasn't the coach then.

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Right, it was Mario "Soft Speech" Elie back then.

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Originally Posted by whottt

We'll see. I have the feeling that AJ is going to be the type that wears on his players.

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That did happen in SA, after all. It's why AJ never was an assistant for the Spurs.

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Originally Posted by timvp

Did you not watch AJ run circles around Pop in last year's playoffs?

As of this second, I'd say that AJ is a better coach than Pop. Dallas has pretty good talent but 70 wins? That's just sick with that team.

Oh and AJ got his coaching ring in '99.

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Is this still valid when you consider who studied under whom?

Duncan amazes me. Always. Even his worst games impress me. He's the reason I'm a Spurs fan. I love articles like this where we get a little more of his personality. He certainly is not done. I can see the fire in his eyes this season. I look forward to seeing him raise the trophy again. (I hope it's this year, but I'm certain he will get another before he retires.)

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Originally Posted by whottt

AJ did a good job, but Pop was exceptionally shitty in that series. He was stubborn about the lineups he used and he flatly refused any lineup that might have forced the Mavs to adjust.

Pop is too much of a counterpuncher sometimes.

Honestly, it wasn't that hard for AJ to outcoach Pop when Pop was the one outcoaching himself.

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I am in full agreement with you on this one. Pop adjusted the Spurs to the Mavs instead of the other way around.

First Off Howard Is An Amazing Talent, And Bosh Is Too. But Duncan Is Still The "best" Hands Down. If You Look At What He's Done Throughout The Years It's Astonishing!

I Think Bosh And That Toronto Team Have A Good Chance Of Making Some Big Noise In The Years To Come. I Don't Know If You Saw That Game Against Houston But They Killed Them. Now Either The Spurs Defense Made Toronto Look Ugly In Their Game Against Us...or...houston's Defense Sucks. And I Don't Think Houston's Defense Sucks. Toronto Looked Like A Completely Different Team Out There!

Ok Onto Howard, Straight Up The Dude Is A Beast! All He Needs Is A Little More Talent On His Team And Some Veteran Players And His Game Will Develop And Orlando Will Make Some Noise As Well.

Well, That's Just My Take On Things.

"Pop adjusted the Spurs to the Mavs"

He seems always to say or mean "we'll play whatever way the other teams wants to play" rather than "We will play our strengths and force the other team to react". fast or slow, big or small. fucking weird

I don't really care, if the Spurs would only play hard defense 48 minutes. I don't think Pop ever means "we adjust to the other team by playing soft on defense".

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Originally Posted by timvp

But again, like I said, Pop >>>>> AJ in terms of who would be better coaching this team. Phil Jackson vs. Pop would be closer, but I'd still go with Pop.

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U are just plain stupid!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

THE ZEN MASTER >>>>>>>>> POPABITCH

9 titles as a coach
1 title as a player

Duncan's lack of athleticism could be percieved as an attribute. Like he said, "I play slow". Basketball is a game of rhythm, although many rely on speed and athleticism. I noticed something when I was playing basketball. I never really had trouble guarding speed, nor athleticism, BUT...this is key....If I was matched up against someone with an awkard rhythm, say shot release, I would be thrown completely off, defensively speaking. Timing is such an underrated quality in basketball. Duncan has excellent timing. Duncan might be slow, but he's also the smoothest player to step foot on the court since Dr. J. That being said, the greatest benefit that comes from Duncan's game will be it's consistancy. Duncan plays a mental game, he doesn't rely on athleticism as much as others. Granted he needs to be healthy. But I don't see Timmy's knees wearing down, or having back issues similar to David. His game doesn't require as much physical effort. While he has suffered ankle injuries, his body doesn't seem to be wearing down, nor does it appear likely to occur anytime soon. When Duncan finally becomes board with this game, that's when he'll hang it up. I think if David's back had not been an issue, he would have played a season or two more. I could see Timmy being around another 7-8 years.

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Originally Posted by remingtonbo2001

Duncan's lack of athleticism could be percieved as an attribute. Like he said, "I play slow". Basketball is a game of rhythm, although many rely on speed and athleticism. I noticed something when I was playing basketball. I never really had trouble guarding speed, nor athleticism, BUT...this is key....If I was matched up against someone with an awkard rhythm, say shot release, I would be thrown completely off, defensively speaking. Timing is such an underrated quality in basketball. Duncan has excellent timing. Duncan might be slow, but he's also the smoothest player to step foot on the court since Dr. J. That being said, the greatest benefit that comes from Duncan's game will be it's consistancy. Duncan plays a mental game, he doesn't rely on athleticism as much as others. Granted he needs to be healthy. But I don't see Timmy's knees wearing down, or having back issues similar to David. His game doesn't require as much physical effort. While he has suffered ankle injuries, his body doesn't seem to be wearing down, nor does it appear likely to occur anytime soon. When Duncan finally becomes board with this game, that's when he'll hang it up. I think if David's back had not been an issue, he would have played a season or two more. I could see Timmy being around another 7-8 years.

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Timing = Boring & Soft

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Originally Posted by LAKERS4LIFE

Timing = Boring & Soft

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I just don't get it. How can Duncan's resume lead anyone to boring and soft? He may not be flashy, he may not dunk and chest pump but he can fucking play. And win. MVP's. Title's. In a game where championship's are the bottom line Duncan's trophy case is overflowing. I'll take him anytime over any other player in the league.

christ

more trolls.

Shame Kori is such a nice person.

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Originally Posted by T Park

christ

more trolls.

Shame Kori is such a nice person.

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Shame that you guys can't just ignore them. Ignore it and they will go away. Bitch about them, ban them, and they just get new IP address and come back.

Hey Kori, if you have any feedback to your BBS software, can you see if they can put an "ignore" button right by a "person's" info box on the post? There are some people you just know are going to be shitty trolls right off the bat.

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Originally Posted by LAKERS4LIFE

U are just plain stupid!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

THE ZEN MASTER >>>>>>>>> POPABITCH

9 titles as a coach
1 title as a player

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Yeah,right,With Jordan,Pippen,Kukoc,Shaq,Kobe,Horry,H.Grant,Rodman ect, as players......9 titles

But look now:With Kobe and a bunch of Average role players= O titles

you are right,He is the MAN :smokin