Ellis: Spurs International Prospects

Spurs International Prospects
Last Update: Mar 2, 2007 5:05 AM

By Kori Ellis
SpursZONE.com

We regularly receive emails here at SpursZONE.com asking questions about the status of the Spurs overseas prospects. The Spurs currently hold the rights to five players who are playing internationally.

http://www.centralmediaserver.com/WOAI/scola2007.jpg
Luis Scola
DOB: 4/30/80
Height: 6'9
Postion: PF

The Argentinean was drafted by the Spurs with the 56th overall pick of the 2002 draft. Scola plays for Tau Ceramica in the Spanish League, where he has averaged 17.2 points (61% FG) and 6.9 rebounds in 17 games this year.

For the 2006-07 Euroleague regular season, Scola tallied 16.6 points and 5.6 rebounds per game, while shooting 59.0% from the field and 73.6% from the free throw line.

The 26-year-old is currently playing in the Euroleague Top 16 tournament where he has averaged 14.7 points and 5.0 rebounds over three games - all victories for Tau. On Wednesday, Scola scored 13 to move within just seven points of becoming the all-time Euroleague Basketball leading scorer.

The problem with bringing Scola to San Antonio has always been his buyout with his European team. NBA teams are only permitted to pay $500,000 toward an international player's buyout. Therefore, he must negotiate a buyout with his current team and pay the balance of his buyout from his NBA salary. In recent years, Scola's buyout amount was reportedly near $14 million, but that number has apparently been reduced considerably.

Most scouts consider Scola the best power forward in Europe. A terrific back to the basket scorer, Scola has great post moves on the low block.

San Antonio is expected to re-visit the possibility of bringing over Scola again this summer. His current contract with Tau reportedly runs through the 2007-08 season.

http://www.centralmediaserver.com/WO...ahinmi2007.jpg
Ian Mahinmi
DOB: 11/5/86
Height: 6'10
Postion: PF/C

The young Frenchman was selected by the Spurs with the 28th pick of the 2005 NBA draft. He plays for Pau-Orthez in the French League, where he has averaged 4.5 points and 3.1 rebounds in 12.8 minutes per contest this year.

For the 2006-07 Euroleague regular season, Mahinmi averaged only 4.3 points and 1.3 rebounds in just under 12 minutes per game. He shot 66.6% from the field and 78.5% from the line.

He is currently playing in the Euroleague Top 16 tournament where he has seen very little playing time, averaging 2.0 points and 1.3 rebounds.

Mahinmi is still very raw and gets into foul trouble easily. However his athleticism and defensive-style still make him a viable prospect for the Spurs in a few years.

Hopefully he will again be able to play on the Spurs summer league team this July, so Spurs fans can get a closer look at the 20-year-old bigman. This past summer, Mahinmi averaged 8.3 points and 5.7 rebounds while playing on the Spurs team at Rocky Mountain Revue.

http://www.centralmediaserver.com/WOAI/javtokas2007.jpg
Robertas Javtokas
DOB: 03/20/80
Height: 6'10
Postion: C

The Lithuanian center was selected by the Spurs with the 56th overall pick of the 2001 NBA draft.

Less than a year after he was drafted, Javtokas suffered extensive injuries in a motorcycle crash. He was an incredible leaper prior to the accident and has regained most of his athletic ability over the years.

After spending several seasons with Lietuvos Rytas, this summer Javtokas signed with Panathinaikos in the Greek League, where he has averaged 7.6 points and 3.5 rebounds this year.

This season he saw very little playing time in Euroleague action. In 13 Euroleague regular season games with the club, he averaged only 2.4 points and 1.5 rebounds in eight minutes per contest.

Panathinaikos is also currently playing in the Euroleague Top 16 tournament. However Javtokas has only seen action in one game - scoring five points and pulling down two boards in 12 minutes.

http://www.centralmediaserver.com/WO...ikidze2007.jpg
Viktor Sanikidze
DOB: 4/1/86
Height: 6'9
Postion: SF

Selected in the second round of the 2004 draft, Sanikidze, a native of the Republic of Georgia, is currently playing for Baloncesto Estudiantes in Spain.

This season, the 20-year-old has seen very little playing time. In six Spanish League games, he has averaged 2.2 points in 9.5 minutes per contest. In 10 games of EuroCup play, he tallied 2.6 points per game, while hitting 10-of-12 two-pointers but only 2-of-10 three pointers.

The knock on Sanikidze has always been his frail frame and propensity for injury. He still has value to the Spurs, but they’ll need to see improvement out of him soon if he has any hopes of eventually making it to the NBA.

http://www.centralmediaserver.com/WOAI/karaulov2007.jpg
Sergei Karaulov
DOB: 04/15/82
Height: 7'1
Postion: C

Of the five prospects, Karaulov is the longest shot to ever see the NBA. While he’s got great size at 7-foot-1, he still has not seen much playing time overseas.

This season, he has only played in three of Khimky Moscow's 26 games. Karaulov has played for the Spurs in summer leagues in the past, but his talent level leaves a lot to be desired.

http://www.woai.com/content/sports/s...1-c94b6d70ed0b

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Originally Posted by Kori Ellis

Spurs International Prospects
Last Update: Mar 2, 2007 5:05 AM

By Kori Ellis
SpursZONE.com

We regularly receive emails here at SpursZONE.com asking questions about the status of the Spurs overseas prospects. The Spurs currently hold the rights to five players who are playing internationally.

http://www.centralmediaserver.com/WOAI/scola2007.jpg
Luis Scola
DOB: 4/30/80
Height: 6'9
Postion: PF

The Argentinean was drafted by the Spurs with the 56th overall pick of the 2002 draft. Scola plays for Tau Ceramica in the Spanish League, where he has averaged 17.2 points (61% FG) and 6.9 rebounds in 17 games this year.

For the 2006-07 Euroleague regular season, Scola tallied 16.6 points and 5.6 rebounds per game, while shooting 59.0% from the field and 73.6% from the free throw line.

The 26-year-old is currently playing in the Euroleague Top 16 tournament where he has averaged 14.7 points and 5.0 rebounds over three games - all victories for Tau. On Wednesday, Scola scored 13 to move within just seven points of becoming the all-time Euroleague Basketball leading scorer.

The problem with bringing Scola to San Antonio has always been his buyout with his European team. NBA teams are only permitted to pay $500,000 toward an international player's buyout. Therefore, he must negotiate a buyout with his current team and pay the balance of his buyout from his NBA salary. In recent years, Scola's buyout amount was reportedly near $14 million, but that number has apparently been reduced considerably.

Most scouts consider Scola the best power forward in Europe. A terrific back to the basket scorer, Scola has great post moves on the low block.

San Antonio is expected to re-visit the possibility of bringing over Scola again this summer. His current contract with Tau reportedly runs through the 2007-08 season.

http://www.centralmediaserver.com/WOAI/mahinmi2007.gif
Ian Mahinmi
DOB: 11/5/86
Height: 6'10
Postion: PF/C

The young Frenchman was selected by the Spurs with the 28th pick of the 2005 NBA draft. He plays for Pau-Orthez in the French League, where he has averaged 4.5 points and 3.1 rebounds in 12.8 minutes per contest this year.

For the 2006-07 Euroleague regular season, Mahinmi averaged only 4.3 points and 1.3 rebounds in just under 12 minutes per game. He shot 66.6% from the field and 78.5% from the line.

He is currently playing in the Euroleague Top 16 tournament where he has seen very little playing time, averaging 2.0 points and 1.3 rebounds.

Mahinmi is still very raw and gets into foul trouble easily. However his athleticism and defensive-style still make him a viable prospect for the Spurs in a few years.

Hopefully he will again be able to play on the Spurs summer league team this July, so Spurs fans can get a closer look at the 20-year-old bigman. This past summer, Mahinmi averaged 8.3 points and 5.7 rebounds while playing on the Spurs team at Rocky Mountain Revue.

http://www.centralmediaserver.com/WOAI/javtokas2007.jpg
Robertas Javtokas
DOB: 03/20/80
Height: 6'10
Postion: C

The Lithuanian center was selected by the Spurs with the 56th overall pick of the 2001 NBA draft.

Less than a year after he was drafted, Javtokas suffered extensive injuries in a motorcycle crash. He was an incredible leaper prior to the accident and has regained most of his athletic ability over the years.

After spending several seasons with Lietuvos Rytas, this summer Javtokas signed with Panathinaikos in the Greek League, where he has averaged 7.6 points and 3.5 rebounds this year.

This season he saw very little playing time in Euroleague action. In 13 Euroleague regular season games with the club, he averaged only 2.4 points and 1.5 rebounds in eight minutes per contest.

Panathinaikos is also currently playing in the Euroleague Top 16 tournament. However Javtokas has only seen action in one game - scoring five points and pulling down two boards in 12 minutes.

http://www.centralmediaserver.com/WO...ikidze2007.jpg
Viktor Sanikidze
DOB: 4/1/86
Height: 6'9
Postion: SF

Selected in the second round of the 2004 draft, Sanikidze, a native of the Republic of Georgia, is currently playing for Baloncesto Estudiantes in Spain.

This season, the 20-year-old has seen very little playing time. In six Spanish League games, he has averaged 2.2 points in 9.5 minutes per contest. In 10 games of EuroCup play, he tallied 2.6 points per game, while hitting 10-of-12 two-pointers but only 2-of-10 three pointers.

The knock on Sanikidze has always been his frail frame and propensity for injury. He still has value to the Spurs, but they’ll need to see improvement out of him soon if he has any hopes of eventually making it to the NBA.

http://www.centralmediaserver.com/WOAI/karaulov2007.jpg
Sergei Karaulov
DOB: 04/15/82
Height: 7'1
Postion: C

Of the five prospects, Karaulov is the longest shot to ever see the NBA. While he’s got great size at 7-foot-1, he still has not seen much playing time overseas.

This season, he has only played in three of Khimky Moscow's 26 games. Karaulov has played for the Spurs in summer leagues in the past, but his talent level leaves a lot to be desired.

http://www.woai.com/content/sports/s...1-c94b6d70ed0b

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:reading Bring Mahinmi in next season. :reading

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On Wednesday, Scola scored 13 to move within just seven points of becoming the all-time Euroleague Basketball leading scorer.

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Scola might be good:)

Ian started yesterday against Maccabi Tel-Aviv.

1:30 into the game, one nice low-post move and... 2 fouls :bang the second one being totally unnecessary.

But I agree he's very interesting physically and defensivly, very active and mobile. That's the first thing I say to myself everytime I see him play. Well..., just after "don't foul" :bang

Nice game by Pau. They lost in the last minutes but played well.

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Originally Posted by JPB

Ian started yesterday against Maccabi Tel-Aviv.

1:30 into the game, one nice low-post move and... 2 fouls :bang the second one being totally unnecessary.

But I agree he's very interesting physically and defensivly, very active and mobile. That's the first thing I say to myself everytime I see him play. Well..., just after "don't foul" :bang

Nice game by Pau. They lost in the last minutes but played well.

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Yeah I saw that yesterday he had 4 fouls in 3 minutes :lol

Too bad for Pau that they are 0-3 now.

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Originally Posted by Kori Ellis

Yeah I saw that yesterday he had 4 fouls in 3 minutes :lol

Too bad for Pau that they are 0-3 now.

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They still have a chance to make the the quarter finals, well..., a slight one.

I didn't see the entire game cos of technical problems. Did your friend play, Kori ?

Scola wil never, never, be on the SPURS, unless RC and Pop are no longer here.

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Originally Posted by Axl Van Dam

:reading Bring Mahinmi in next season. :reading

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In fact, I'm really wondering if it wouldn't be better for him to come next year. He might not be ready but I think it would be better for him to developp in the US than in europe which may not be made for his game and his physical characteristics.

Problem is, spurs couldn't afford to use a spot for a player who wouldn't really contribute and he wouldn't go in the NBDL.

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Originally Posted by JPB

But I agree he's very interesting physically and defensivly, very active and mobile. That's the first thing I say to myself everytime I see him play. Well..., just after "don't foul" :bang

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we know that he has all the physical tools. maybe someone should try to explain the basketball rules to him.
I sometimes have the impression, Ian doesn't have the slightest idea, why sometimes a foul is called or not.
he is a bit like Forrest Gump, when he played Football.

btw. Aaron Miles didn't have his best games last night, but still decent.
some weeks ago he was mentioned as a possible FA signing for the Spurs this summer and I support this. he definitly has improved his playmaking and shooting (still not great, but better now), his defense has always been decent.
I think he could develope into a solid back-up PG and would fullfill much of what the Spurs usually ask for. (defense ability, work ethic, leadership, good demeanor)

I think he just can't control his activity while trying to be agressive on defense.

True that Miles shooting % is a bit low for a PG but he's still young and is beginning to improve his job as leading a euroleague team.

I hope we draft a guy fom the NCAA this year.

It's not that I have a problem w/ Eorpleague, but i'm tired of playes being stashed away. If i'm not mistaken, we could have had Varejeo instead of Beno. At least draft some guys that can make an impact.

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Originally Posted by JPB

he wouldn't go in the NBDL.

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Why do you say that ?

Dleague can really be helpfull for Mahinmi in his first year in nba : he won't get playtime with Spurs and Dleague is a a very friendly league for young and raw players.

and I agree about Miles, he is likely more interesting than players like Conroy. I'm quite sure he is on Spurs radar (Pau is almost Spurs' euro team) : let's hope Spurs will have a roster spot for him and that he won't chose another team over him.

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Originally Posted by Bruno

Why do you say that ?

Dleague can really be helpfull for Mahinmi in his first year in nba : he won't get playtime with Spurs and Dleague is a a very friendly league for young and raw players.

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I don't think Ian would leave Pau and the euroleague for the NBDL. That would really be a regression. The level on NBDL is to much inferior than the euroleague.

But I admit that, on paper, the earlier he could face US basketball, the better IMO. Learning the game in NBDL could be a solution but again I don't see it happening. I don't see Pau letting him go for the NBDL.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kori Ellis

Spurs International Prospects
Last Update: Mar 2, 2007 5:05 AM

By Kori Ellis
SpursZONE.com

We regularly receive emails here at SpursZONE.com asking questions about the status of the Spurs overseas prospects. The Spurs currently hold the rights to five players who are playing internationally.

http://www.centralmediaserver.com/WOAI/scola2007.jpg
Luis Scola
DOB: 4/30/80
Height: 6'9
Postion: PF

The Argentinean was drafted by the Spurs with the 56th overall pick of the 2002 draft. Scola plays for Tau Ceramica in the Spanish League, where he has averaged 17.2 points (61% FG) and 6.9 rebounds in 17 games this year.

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I thought somebody said he was only a good inside scorer but not a good rebounder.At 6.9 he is getting more boards tham the two spurs Centers right now(4.9 and 5.2)
I´ve got the feeling that next year will be Scola´s year to finally come down to S.A,+He´s got a big chance to be the Euroleague MVP and Win the Euroleague with Tau,So after that he won´t have nothing else to proof in Europe.
NBA TIME FOR LUIS BABY!!

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Originally Posted by Bruno

and I agree about Miles, he is likely more interesting than players like Conroy. I'm quite sure he is on Spurs radar (Pau is almost Spurs' euro team) : let's hope Spurs will have a roster spot for him and that he won't chose another team over him.

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assuming that the PG spot will look different next season than this year (Beno will for sure be gone and also Vaughn is a question), there should be a roster spot for a player like Miles. the question will also be, if he signs for the minimum, or if he is trying to get some more from another team. Euro teams will offer him more, after the nice showing this season with Pau.
I can't see the Spurs spend more than the min. on a player like him.

the best scenario is, that the Spurs can somehow get a proven backup PG (in the Duhon/Calderon mold - not that I thought we could get one of them) and sign Miles as the 3rd PG.
(will only happen if Spurs don't draft for example Shakur with their 2nd rounder)

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Originally Posted by JPB

I don't think Ian would leave Pau and the euroleague for the NBDL.... I don't see Pau letting him go for the NBDL.

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Mahinmi won't leave Pau for the Dleague (Dleague is the official name now from the NBDL).

It works like that : Mahinmi signs with Spurs his rookie contract with Spurs and during the season Spurs can send him up to three times to play some game in the Dleague. Nba teams send their young players for some games in Dleague to give them some playtime when they can't get playtime in nba.

Pau won't let him go for the NBDL because he will sign with Spurs.

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Originally Posted by mountainballer

the best scenario is, that the Spurs can somehow get a proven backup PG (in the Duhon/Calderon mold - not that I thought we could get one of them) and sign Miles as the 3rd PG.
(will only happen if Spurs don't draft for example Shakur with their 2nd rounder)

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Agree.
To me Spurs should have as backup PG a young player with upside (a project) and a solid vet.
This year Beno was the project and Vaughn was the solid vet.
Miles is a project, Spurs will need a solid vet. If they can't find a better solution, I wouldn't mind Vaughn. The edge of Vaughn/Miles (or Vaughn/2nd round pick) as backup PG is that even if it's not a great solution, it's cheap and Spurs could spend money on something more importnat like an athletic wing.

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Originally Posted by Bruno

Mahinmi won't leave Pau for the Dleague (Dleague is the official name now from the NBDL).

It works like that : Mahinmi signs with Spurs his rookie contract with Spurs and during the season Spurs can send him up to three times to play some game in the Dleague. Nba teams send their young players for some games in Dleague to give them some playtime when they can't get playtime in nba.

Pau won't let him go for the NBDL because he will sign with Spurs.

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At his age,and with his actual BBIQs He´d need at least a full year on the Dleague.
He needs to be smarter and stronger to be on the NBA. And that will come with time.

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Originally Posted by Bruno

Mahinmi won't leave Pau for the Dleague (Dleague is the official name now from the NBDL).

It works like that : Mahinmi signs with Spurs his rookie contract with Spurs and during the season Spurs can send him up to three times to play some game in the Dleague. Nba teams send their young players for some games in Dleague to give them some playtime when they can't get playtime in nba.

Pau won't let him go for the NBDL because he will sign with Spurs.

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C'mon Bruno, I know all that :lol

My point is Pau would not let him leave (or he wouldn't like leaving) knowing he would go in NBDL. Knowing Spurs would send him to the NBDL after they signed him, if you prefer put it this way.

Didn't they bother to examine Mahinmi's basketball IQ when salivating over his potential? He's a nice guy and all, but doesn't seem to understand the game all that well, the amount he fouls.

Looks like the once proud "Foreign Legion theory" has run its course.

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Originally Posted by Dirties Robbed Me

I can't believe this team has squandered away this many draft picks on players of little to no talent. I understand the diamond in the ruff theory but at some point you'd think team needs might actually be addressed in the draft.

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Good theory, but that's tough to do when you are drafting 28/56 or 29/58 every year. The reason that most players drafted that late are flameouts is that they languish on the bench and don't develop at all. With a Euro, you keep a roster spot, caproom, and they still play and develop. Even utilizing the Dleague, it's YOUR team's cap that pays him, and you use one of your 13-15 roster spots even when they are "down on the farm".

I also can't believe that you're writing those guys off so easily. Karalauov is a bust, and at this point Javtokas is probably too old, but Ian is still 20, Sanikidze turned all of 21 yesterday, and Scola certainly isn't a bust, just buyout-bound to Tau. By all accounts, he can at least come in and score effectively in the post in the NBA, even if his rebounding is average in Europe.

Sounds to me like Luis and Ian are the only two real prospects. ANd considering Luis may never make it over here (and when he does, he'll likely need at least a year to adjust to the NBA) and Ian is sooooooooooo young, they may all turn out to be busts.

I thought Javtokas was more promising than you make him sound...

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Originally Posted by JPB

My point is Pau would not let him leave (or he wouldn't like leaving) knowing he would go in NBDL. Knowing Spurs would send him to the NBDL after they signed him, if you prefer put it this way.

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Pau has nothing to say about Mahinmi and I think that they will be hapy to see Mahinmi leave them this summer because they will likely get some cash from Spurs and because Vaty is their long term project at C, not Mahinmi.

The question is will Mahinmi be ready to come in nba to only play in dleague ?
Few months ago, I would have said no to you : Mahinmi wanted to sign in nba only if he were nba ready and could get some playtime.
I'm not so sure of that now because he is fed up with euro refs (he do a lot of fouls but refs, especially french league refs, are too really hard with him), he hasn't a good realtionship with his coach and he doesn't play : rather not playing in nba and earning 10 times more money than not playing in europe.

Another question is : are Spurs ready to offer him a contract this summer ?

We will se what will happen this sumemr but last rumor I've heard from pau is that mahinmi will sign with Spurs this summer.

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Originally Posted by Supergirl

Sounds to me like Luis and Ian are the only two real prospects. ANd considering Luis may never make it over here (and when he does, he'll likely need at least a year to adjust to the NBA) and Ian is sooooooooooo young, they may all turn out to be busts.

I thought Javtokas was more promising than you make him sound...

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Ian and Luis aint Busts are all.The spurs FO you may say though.
They screwed last year by signing Finley,eventhough They don´t pay him all of his contract,He is keeping a spot on the roster and 3M/year in the salary Cap.That could´ve been used for a younger player to start developing since last year.

I don't get how people can say that Spurs ahve wasted pick on these players.

Scola, Sanikidze, Karaulov and Javtokas or mid to late second round picks : this kind of players are 90% of the time third sting players at best. Scola is the best PF in europe and a lot of people think that he will be able to contribute in nba. Sanikidze is still young : he doesn't look like a good prospect for the moment but who knows. Javtokas was one accident away to be a very good player and can maybe become a 10th man in nba.

Mahinmi is the only one for who you can say that Spurs have wasted a pick because he is a late first round pick. People should remember that Spurs just won the championship and that when they have drafted him, they didn't need immediate help : a gamble on a player wasn't a crazy thing to do. Future will tell if it was a good gamble.

^jovatkas is a stiff. i wish it weren't true, but he sucks.

btw has Mahinmi gotten any bigger/stronger?

As Bruno points out, it's not right to say these guys are busts. None except Mahinmi were selected with valuable picks. There's frustration that Ian was taken instead of David Lee, but the Spurs at that point weren't going to select an American player. They felt they didn't need anyone right away.

Sergei Karaulov = "Presti's Folly" - Sam convinced the Spurs to gamble a late second-round pick on him, even though Sam had never seen him play. In fact, he didn't even know what Karaulov looked like (according to Johnny Ludden).

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Originally Posted by picnroll

btw has Mahinmi gotten any bigger/stronger?

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Some people say he's grown an inch or so, but I haven't heard that he has gotten stronger.

It sometimes hard to gauge how a player is going to do by their (lack of) production overseas. Some players just aren't getting the playing time they need to work through it and start to produce. Sometimes it's a bad coach/player relationship, sometimes they are obligated to play other players for a variety of reasons, and sometimes it's all on the player.

I'd like to see Mahinmi in a different environment before I judge how he's going to work out.

BTW, good synopsis and update Kori!

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Originally Posted by Solid D

BTW, good synopsis and update Kori!

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Thanks.

I hope Mahinmi gets better tham what He is playing right now,but I haven´t seen a player who is not producing in Europe,doing something any better on the NBA.
I say,another season in Europe will do him, and his BBIQ better tham playing in the Dleague.

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Originally Posted by ArgSpursFan

I hope Mahinmi gets better tham what He is playing right now,but I haven´t seen a player who is not producing in Europe,doing something any better on the NBA.
I say,another season in Europe will do him, and his BBIQ better tham playing in the Dleague.

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I just think the situation with Pau might be bad for him. Before thinking he's a bust, I'd like to see him on a different European team or with the Spurs (and perhaps be sent to the DLeague on and off).

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Originally Posted by ArgSpursFan

I haven´t seen a player who is not producing in Europe,doing something any better on the NBA.

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Petro. He isn't playing great in nba but he was as bad as Mahinmi when he played in europe.

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Originally Posted by exstatic

I also can't believe that you're writing those guys off so easily. Karalauov is a bust, and at this point Javtokas is probably too old, but Ian is still 20, Sanikidze turned all of 21 yesterday, and Scola certainly isn't a bust, just buyout-bound to Tau. By all accounts, he can at least come in and score effectively in the post in the NBA, even if his rebounding is average in Europe.

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noone called Scola a bust.
IMO he likely would pay big dividends, like Nocioni does in Chicago
FO blew it last year, when they decided to invest their money in Butler instead of signing Scola to the contract he demanded.

talking about young players, there is a point, when you can no longer argue, that they are just 20 or just 21.
in the case of Sanikidze you have to say, he is already 21.
it's not that you can expect a 21 years old to progress as if he just turned 17 and is still growing. hell, he get's tons of DNPs at one of the worst teams in the Spanish league. some argue, that the Spanish league is a though pro league. yes and no. some (much better) teams have players who are just 18 and get 10 times more PT than Sanikidze. fact is, that he isn't different to the player he was at 18. (I know, he was injured a lot, but that was also a bit because of his highschool player frame).
Sanikidze can be labeled a bust, till something miraculous happens and he turns into a NBA player. but for how long did we have to call him "young project - you have to be patient".
till he is 30?

Mahinmi is similar. but other than Sanikidze he has the body to play NBA bball. so there is some hopw left. on the other hand, he was a 1st rounder.
and he also didn't show much progress. you can point out, that he started late with playing organized basektball and that's why he is still raw.
sure, but Tim also started late.
you have some talent or you don't. talent isn't something that suddenly shows up after 5 years of training. right now I can't see, that there is the talent (for NBA) when talking about Ian.

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Originally Posted by Supergirl

I thought Javtokas was more promising than you make him sound...

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he did, that's right. he might have turned out to be a decent pick for a late 2nd rounder. not a steal like some thought before the accident, but maybe a solid back-up center like Rebraca.

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Sanikidze turned all of 21 yesterday,

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in the case of Sanikidze you have to say, he is already 21.

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Just for the record, his birthday is April 1 - he's not 21 yet :)

There's nothing unusual at all in Euroleague about young players new to teams not seeing many minutes their first years with those teams...it's like a respect thing if there is a more established or older player playing the same position.

Pau Gasol couldn't get off the bench his first year in Euroleague either. He averaged 4 ppg.


They use the Stephen Jackson plan in Europe too...

Very nice write up Kori and thanks for doing it.

Scola, if the Spurs were to bring him in, sounds like his best fit would be backing up Duncan. His playing style might not work as well with Timmy on the floor as they want to be in the same area.

Ian and Viktor are still too young to call a bust. Sanikidze is going to have to gain some body mass via muscle and loose the mullet. I personally still have high hopes for Mahinmi and that is based on nothing more than his body and athletic ability.

Javotkas may never make it to the NBA, at least with the Spurs. The combination of the motorcycle accident and now his age are increasing the odds against him.

Karaulov will never see an NBA court unless he buys a ticket.

Again, nice post......

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Originally Posted by picnroll

btw has Mahinmi gotten any bigger/stronger?

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Yes, he has.

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I haven´t seen a player who is not producing in Europe,doing something any better on the NBA

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Not necesserly.

As I previously said, Ian's game may fit better in US than in Europe.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by picnroll

btw has Mahinmi gotten any bigger/stronger?

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by JPB

Yes, he has.

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He's a bit stronger.

Raise your hand if you've seen Mahinimi play...

Any big man with those kind of hops and quickness is going to wind up in the NBA at some point.

Even in D-League his athleticism wasn't the problem...fouls were.

I don't see Pau making a real big attempt to develop him this year...but then again, what do they really have to gain by doing so?

Learns the system this year and then next year he becomes a factor and Pau makes a run for the Euroleague...both teams get something out of it.


Again I gotta say...there is nothing unusual about first year rookie level players getting jobbed for minutes behind inferior players in Euroleague.

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Originally Posted by Dirties Robbed Me

I can't believe this team has squandered away this many draft picks on players of little to no talent. I understand the diamond in the ruff theory but at some point you'd think team needs might actually be addressed in the draft.

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Go look at all the players the other 29 teams drafted & you'll get the idea that its not only the Spurs who "squandered" away draft picks. There are plenty of guys that were picked very high up. even in the lottery that aren't even in the NBA right now for, example Tskitaschvilli was picked in the 5th spot & he cant even make a summer league team & he's back in Europe, Jiri Welsch is another one. The teams that picked guys like that would love to have that pick back. Not doing your homework & throwing away a lottery pick on a guy thats not even in the NBA anymore, that is squandering.

Like exstatic said, the Spurs are always picking at the end of the first & usually the end of the second, picks that have little value in trades. The players the Spurs have picked have not come to the NBA yet, so we dont know if the picks used were wasted or not. And we know at least Scola will bring in some type of value in a trade, whether it be in picks or a player. For somebody that was picked at the end of the 2nd round, I dont think you can ask for much more.

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Originally Posted by whottt

Pau Gasol couldn't get off the bench his first year in Euroleague either. He averaged 4 ppg.

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jesus. you are making quite a reach to somehow find arguments why Ian has to struggle in his first Euroleague season.

just to put things in perspective:
Pau was younger than Ian and other than Ian he played for on of the best teams in Europe, that was full with verterans.
Pau played behind Milan Gurovic, who back then was one of the best SFs in Europe (Pau didn't play center, just some minutes at PF). Barca played kind of twin tower back then (remember, they also had Elson on their team), so Renzitas, Duenas, Alston got most of the minutes in the big rotation.
averaging 4 PPG in limited minutes as a 19 years old player on that team isn't comparable to what Ian showed this season.
you ask if people have seen Ian play. if you had seen Pau play back then, you wouldn't even think of making a comparison like this.

at least we know that scola>any big name not name td on our roster

i rather have javtokas than oberto, this dude can fuckn at least jump over a fukn coke bottle....

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Originally Posted by mountainballer

jesus. you are making quite a reach to somehow find arguments why Ian has to struggle in his first Euroleague season.

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*snip*


On the contrary...I make no reach at all.

Pau has absolutely nothing to gain by developing Mahinimi this season. IE giving him substantial PT. And everything to gain by limiting his minutes this season....

And Pau Gasol is not the only player whose minutes were limited in the early years.


There's no great mystery about what is going on with Mahinimi here...

He's definitely got NBA athleticism.
He definitely plays hard.
And from all accounts I have read, he has a tremendous work ethic.
And I think the NBA looming in his future has done nothing to curb his desire or enthusiams.


He's jumped up a level in league and he is struggling making the adjustment against more talented players...minutes will fix this...but now, he's in sit, watch and learn mode...and Pau will be the better for it next season.


I can give you other examples of NBA Euroleaguers who got limited minutes early in their careers with Euroleague teams.

And teams in Euroleague do make more of a commitment to guys who they plan on being a bigger part of the team than guys they don't think will be around...

It's just good business...it'd be stupid to do it differently.


I've seen Mahinimi play...he made Petro look like dogshit.

He'll be in the NBA.

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Originally Posted by whottt

I've seen Mahinimi play.

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so did I.
unfortunatly more than once this season, I wish he didn't have joined a Euroleague team, then I wouldn't have seen him.
I never doubted that he has NBA level athleticismn.
I doubt that he has NBA level skills.
I see us make the same discussion 2 years from now.
even then some will claim, that he is young and raw, but has the body.

and btw. he isn't 7 foot like Petro.
he is 6-9 at best.
an athletic 7 foot guy doesn't need much skills to end up in the NBA and have a mediocre career.
a 6-9 player should have, athletic or not.

I'm looking forward to the 2007 draft hoping Spurs will finally get back the Karma of the before 2003 years and pick some guys that are worth talking and speculating about.
two decent picks and hopefully a final solution for Scola (either sign him or trade his rights) and I guarrantee, that in two years people won't evenremamber that we own the Mahinmi rights.

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Originally Posted by whottt

He's jumped up a level in league and he is struggling making the adjustment against more talented players...minutes will fix this...but now, he's in sit, watch and learn mode...and Pau will be the better for it next season.

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Pau isn't sure at all to play the euroleague next season.
They had to win the french league to participate at next year euroleague.
If Pau isn't qualified for the euroleague, Mahinmi will have to choice between staying with them and playing only the french league, signing with a new euroleague team or signing with Spurs.

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Originally Posted by mountainballer

and btw. he isn't 7 foot like Petro.
he is 6-9 at best.

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:rolleyes
Mahinmi is at least a legit 6'10".

Send both Scola and Mahinmi to the D-League.

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Originally Posted by #1elliottfan

Send both Scola and Mahinmi to the D-League.

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Scola has nothing to do in D-League.

Heard 6'10 and three-quarters at his pre-draft workout. He should be hovering around 7' when he's fully grown.

About his on-court time for Pau. The foul-trouble that plagued him in the Summer League didn't disappear. Even if the opportunity was available for him to play more, he would still take himself out of the game with his propensity to foul. It's a problem...

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Originally Posted by Bruno

Scola has nothing to do in D-League.

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If the Spurs were to sign Scola, he would be the Horry replacement, but would they develop him how they did with Oberto last year or put him in the rotation already?

The only thing about bringing Mahinmi over next year is that he will certainly be a d-leaguer, but will still count against the roster, of which the Spurs only have 15 spots. Guys like Finley, Barry, Oberto, and Elson all have guaranteed contracts that run through next year. That, plus the potential of three draft picks (at least one a guaranteed contract if it's not a draft & stash). I just don't see the room for Mahinmi next season. I think he doesn't come over until 2008.

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Originally Posted by PHAT TONY

The only thing about bringing Mahinmi over next year is that he will certainly be a d-leaguer, but will still count against the roster, of which the Spurs only have 15 spots. Guys like Finley, Barry, Oberto, and Elson all have guaranteed contracts that run through next year. That, plus the potential of three draft picks (at least one a guaranteed contract if it's not a draft & stash). I just don't see the room for Mahinmi next season. I think he doesn't come over until 2008.

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I thought there was a team option for Oberto after this season.

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Originally Posted by #1elliottfan

If the Spurs were to sign Scola, he would be the Horry replacement, but would they develop him how they did with Oberto last year or put him in the rotation already?

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He might not go in the rotation, but I doubt they would put him in the D-League. Oberto rode the pine all of his first year, but he spent it with the team.

About his on-court time, how much he plays would depend on the Spurs' needs and his ability to adapt to the NBA game.

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Originally Posted by #1elliottfan

I thought there was a team option for Oberto after this season.

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Player option...he might utilize it if he's out of the rotation, but its a guaranteed $2.5M, would you walk away?

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Originally Posted by PHAT TONY

Player option...he might utilize it if he's out of the rotation, but its a guaranteed $2.5M, would you walk away?

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Convince him he's worth $3M. Anything to get him off.

Oberto can opt out too to get more money if he continues to get some playtime this year.
When I see what contracts Voskhul and Othella Harrington have received last summer, I can see some teams offering a multiyear contract with more than $2M per year.

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Originally Posted by #1elliottfan

Convince him he's worth $3M. Anything to get him off.

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Agreed. I can only handle two Argentinians on the Spurs at once, so if they bring Scola on, or try to go after Nocioni, I'm gonna need Oberto to skip town.

Argentinians.... :lol

Just kidding, don't be offended ye people of Argentina...

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Originally Posted by Kori Ellis

Scola might be good:)

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Sounds like only Scola may be useful within the next tw0-three years. The rest of these guys are chronic pine-riders who can't even start...er make that...get into serious minutes in the rotations for their Euro teams.

That fact alone virtually eliminates them from serious consideration.

I think Ian's game, more specific his defense, would translate better to the NBA than in an International League. The structure of the game is based differently than the NBA, which is why America suffered during the Olympics. Also considering other International teams have been under this system for quite some time. That being said, Ian's foul trouble doesn't concern me. Yeah, he did have trouble in summer league. I do believe the Euroleague will benefit his abililty to withstand foul trouble, as the officiating tends to be quite sensitive.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by #1elliottfan

If the Spurs were to sign Scola, he would be the Horry replacement, but would they develop him how they did with Oberto last year or put him in the rotation already?

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Horry is retiring in the offseason anyways.
besides Scola won´t be your tipical just out of college roockie.

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Originally Posted by PHAT TONY

Agreed. I can only handle two Argentinians on the Spurs at once, so if they bring Scola on, or try to go after Nocioni, I'm gonna need Oberto to skip town.

Argentinians.... :lol

Just kidding, don't be offended ye people of Argentina...

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I agree about Fabricio Leaving the spurs though,As much as I respect Oberto,I don´t think he can do any better tham what he already did so far.he´s got a spurs all times record already anyways(12/12 fg% in a game vs the suns)
But I really think the spurs need a bigger stronger and faster center tham him.

If Oberto leaves it's probably to go back to Europe. I see him spending his dowager years anchoring some Euroleague team, perhaps off the bench for stretches.

if scola is not playing the NBA next season, i'm going to be pissed. even more pissed than i was this past off season from the ineptness demonstrated by the spurs front office.

He can even be a decent backup Center for a shity NBA team,but the spurs need someone else in order to fight for the NBA title.

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Originally Posted by #1elliottfan

Send both Scola and Mahinmi to the D-League.

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That'd be hilarious. Scola would score about 55 ppg and kill random passers-by every game out of rage.

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Originally Posted by JPB

In fact, I'm really wondering if it wouldn't be better for him to come next year. He might not be ready but I think it would be better for him to developp in the US than in europe which may not be made for his game and his physical characteristics.

Problem is, spurs couldn't afford to use a spot for a player who wouldn't really contribute and he wouldn't go in the NBDL.

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:toast Couldn't agree with you more on your first paragraph. :toast

They all sound like bust except for maybe Scola. RC needs to give some of his salary back.

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They all sound like bust except for maybe Scola

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yeah them 20 year olds, give up on em.

:lol

fucking idiots.

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Originally Posted by Mr. Body

Didn't they bother to examine Mahinmi's basketball IQ when salivating over his potential? He's a nice guy and all, but doesn't seem to understand the game all that well, the amount he fouls.

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Tall talk from someone who wanted us to spend the whole MLE on Roberto Javtokas. And I bet you haven't even seen Ian play, either :rolleyes

Ian showed enough IMO, to bring him over this year and play him as a 12th man.

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Originally Posted by Aggie Hoopsfan

Tall talk from someone who wanted us to spend the whole MLE on Roberto Javtokas. And I bet you haven't even seen Ian play, either :rolleyes

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:lol

I got it now. Aggie Hoopsfan wants to give Ian Mahinmi the entire MLE. Spurs made a mistake drafting him late first round. :lol

That, and trading for Corey Maggette so he can start at point guard. :lol

Keep 'em coming! :lol

:king

What a shitty outlook. All of these players blow chunks.

Who could we have gotten instead of these non-performers?
At the very least, these draft picks have some trade value, right?
Seems like a lotta picks and a whole lotta nothin' to show for it.

How do most of you guys see players like Mahinmi play? Can you view the games online or something?

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Originally Posted by Darkwaters

How do most of you guys see players like Mahinmi play? Can you view the games online or something?

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Some of the posters here aren't from the U.S.

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Originally Posted by Darkwaters

How do most of you guys see players like Mahinmi play? Can you view the games online or something?

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Several Euroleague games are on TV throughout the season (though they are delayed about a week). Also some of them are broadcast online.

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Originally Posted by Mr. Body

As Bruno points out, it's not right to say these guys are busts. None except Mahinmi were selected with valuable picks. There's frustration that Ian was taken instead of David Lee, but the Spurs at that point weren't going to select an American player. They felt they didn't need anyone right away.

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Over the past five years or so, we see how that decision has turned out. Personally, I think the Spurs have "overvalued" the international market much to the detriment of the American talent pool.

I'm not even talking about drafting high-schoolers. It still irks the hell out of me that they could pass on solid college players like Josh Howard, David Lee, and Paul Milsap in favor of some international "spare-come-lately".

Other teams have had no problem finding American talent in the later rounds. The Spurs are seemingly "too cheap" to take the risk.

Since Parker and Ginobili, they've got basically nothing tangible to show for their international draft efforts.

They simply need to balance out their draft selections by mining both the American and international player fronts. They should stop dedicating the majority their time, effort and scouting in the foreign market. Mix it up a bit.

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Originally Posted by SenorSpur

They simply need to balance out their draft selections by mining both the American and international player fronts. They should stop dedicating the majority their time, effort and scouting in the foreign market. Mix it up a bit.

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I think they realize that and that's why they have a director of collegiate scouting (I don't know if that's his exact title) now.

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Originally Posted by Kori Ellis

I think they realize that and that's why they have a director of collegiate scouting (I don't know if that's his exact title) now.

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Does that mean they've not had one before now?

BTW, trying to glean three players (Ginobili, Scola and Oberto) from the same international Olympic team? Lightening may strike once, but three times? That's definitely going to the well thrice too often.

yeah, I think they were a little shortsighted with the international / veteran gleam. But can you blame them after Gino and Tony? Luckily they've learned and are tapping the domestic prospects again.

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Originally Posted by SenorSpur

Does that mean they've not had one before now?

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I do not believe that have had someone that has concentrated ONLY on college scouting before (but I'm not positive).

I'm really disappointed in what I read about Mahinmi and Javtokas. VERY disappointed. Yes, Mahinmi is young, but damn!

Looks like Scola is the guy to try to bring over, again, next summer.

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Originally Posted by ArgSpursFan

I thought somebody said he was only a good inside scorer but not a good rebounder.At 6.9 he is getting more boards tham the two spurs Centers right now(4.9 and 5.2)
I´ve got the feeling that next year will be Scola´s year to finally come down to S.A,+He´s got a big chance to be the Euroleague MVP and Win the Euroleague with Tau,So after that he won´t have nothing else to proof in Europe.
NBA TIME FOR LUIS BABY!!

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You have to take into account that in Europe is not as common to grab man y boards, top-notch centers rarely get more than 6 or 7 at best rpg in strong teams.

The game in Europe is very collective, and zone defenses helps that a lot. With zones, no matter how good you are, the D can close you and the team must share the numbers with the rest of the teammates, and when the perimeter is not working, even the most dominant inside players can bring titles to a team. Even such a dominant player like Tim Duncan lived that in FIBA competitions.

Apart from that Scola is playing reduced minutes due that he's recovering from a plantar fascitis (las game he played only 19 mins) and that his team is so strong, that the teams can have him less minutes and still beat their oponents.

Knowing that, Scola's numbers are impressive, he goes above 20 of avg Efficiency for every season he competes, he uses to be above 6 rpg or even 7 rpg (rebounds number more for a center than a PF in Europe), an the less zone deffense would in NBA would not hurt him at all, IMO. At least regarding that, he'll be better in NBA than in Euroleague.

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Originally Posted by Dartherus

You have to take into account that in Europe is not as common to grab man y boards, top-notch centers rarely get more than 6 or 7 at best rpg in strong teams.
The game in Europe is very collective, and zone defenses helps that a lot. With zones, no matter how good you are, the D can close you and the team must share the numbers with the rest of the teammates, and when the perimeter is not working, even the most dominant inside players can bring titles to a team. Even such a dominant player like Tim Duncan lived that in FIBA competitions.

Apart from that Scola is playing reduced minutes due that he's recovering from a plantar fascitis (las game he played only 19 mins) and that his team is so strong, that the teams can have him less minutes and still beat their oponents.

Knowing that, Scola's numbers are impressive, he goes above 20 of avg Efficiency for every season he competes, he uses to be above 6 rpg or even 7 rpg (rebounds number more for a center than a PF in Europe), an the less zone deffense would in NBA would not hurt him at all, IMO. At least regarding that, he'll be better in NBA than in Euroleague.

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That´s exacly what I was trying to explain guys like ChumpDumper or TIMVP,about the FIBA rules(wich I played under in Argentina)and nobody seems to take that in consideration.I did predict that Scola can be a better scorer/rebounder in NBA tham what he already is in Europe right now,because of the one-on-one NBA D.and Diferents rules that change from FIBA to NBA.
That´s why most former FIBA players are more team oriented players.

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Originally Posted by Ocotillo

Very nice write up Kori and thanks for doing it.

Scola, if the Spurs were to bring him in, sounds like his best fit would be backing up Duncan. His playing style might not work as well with Timmy on the floor as they want to be in the same area.

Ian and Viktor are still too young to call a bust. Sanikidze is going to have to gain some body mass via muscle and loose the mullet. I personally still have high hopes for Mahinmi and that is based on nothing more than his body and athletic ability.

Javotkas may never make it to the NBA, at least with the Spurs. The combination of the motorcycle accident and now his age are increasing the odds against him.

Karaulov will never see an NBA court unless he buys a ticket.

Again, nice post......

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That´s a good point,since every time Tim goes to the bench the spurs suck lately,we can´t even hold on to a 15 pts. lead when Timmy is on the bench.So if He can play 15 mins in his roockie year,being Tim´s backup,it´ll help the team on the paint when Duncan is getting some rest.

IF scola would come off the bench with manu that might be a good combo
but scola is going to be limited to 15 minutes most nights so spurs better not pay him 40 minute night salary

The future will shine for SAS, as long as they keep the ability to find good players around the globe; I'd love to see Scola in SAS' uniform

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Originally Posted by ducks

IF scola would come off the bench with manu that might be a good combo
but scola is going to be limited to 15 minutes most nights so spurs better not pay him 40 minute night salary

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what would you reather have in your team,a guy like Ely who gets 3.3 M p/year and doesn´t play,or a guy who can play 15 mins p/game in his roockie year and can put up 10 pts 5 board p/game for the same money?

All the FIBA thing is quite BS : Scola won't turn into a great rebounder because he plays in NBA. He won't too turn into a liabilty.
Players average about the same number of rebounds/min in europe and in nba : players who have played in both systems haven't seen their numbers really raise or decrease. if there is a difference, it's not a significant one.

To me, I split bigmen into 3 categories :
- 1 rebound per 5 min : bad rebounders. (players like Rasho)
- 1 rebound per 4 min : average rebounders. (players like Oberto, Elson)
- 1 rebound per 3 min : good rebounders. (players like Duncan)

Scola is a 1 rebound per 4 min player in europe, I see no reason for him not to be this kind of players in nba.

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Originally Posted by Bruno

:rolleyes
Mahinmi is at least a legit 6'10".

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sorry that I'm a bit of a smart-ass, but from where do you get this "at least 6-10" myth?
maybe he seems taller, because Pau is a very small team, only their young center Ajinca is taller than 6-9 and he doesn't play anyhow.
most sites list Ian at 6-9. (I know that NBA teams add sometimes 2 inches to the players mesurments)
just check by yourself.
Vathy (plyer no.16) is listed 2.05 (6-9)
Rupert (no.12) is listed 6-7
Harrison (no.5) is listed 6-4

http://www.elan-bearnais.fr/equipe/2...eamreprise.JPG

Even if he averages the same boards tham this year(6.9) in the NBA next year ,He will be better tham Elson or Oberto(5.2/4.9)who are Centers in the NBA.+He´ll be more of scorer tham what Elson or Oberto are,and he is a PF not a Center.

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Originally Posted by mountainballer

sorry that I'm a bit of a smart-ass, but from where do you get this "at least 6-10" myth?

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It's not like Ludden has said in his articles that Mahinmi was 6'10" (he even said that he was 6'11" in one of them).
It's not like Mahinmi has said that he was 6'10" more than one year ago.

Mahinmi was maybe 6'9" few years ago but he has grown since that and sites don't update heights/weights (just look at some weights on nba/com, it's quite funny) .
Your picture prove nothing. It's impossible to say if a player is 6'9", 6'10" or 6'11" on a picture.
Just look at this picture : http://www.elan-bearnais.fr/equipe/2...istjohnsen.jpg
Mahinmi seems bigger than Johnsen (the guy in the middle). Johnsen pre-draft camp mesurement are 6'10" without shoes and 6'10.75" with shoes.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ArgSpursFan

Even if he averages the same boards tham this year(6.9) in the NBA next year ,He will be better tham Elson or Oberto(5.2/4.9)

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You can't use rebounding numbers without lookint at the playtime.
Scola should be the same kind of rebounders in nba than Oberto/Elson.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bruno

You can't use rebounding numbers without lookint at the playtime.
Scola should be the same kind of rebounders in nba than Oberto/Elson.

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But you can´t have the NEXT DUNCAN for 3M p/year.
If thats the case lets bring D.Howard,but that´s gonna cost really Big bucks.
I never said He is gonna be a great rebounder,but He can be a 6 to 7 boards p/game PF,with some decent scoring average.