TimVP and Marcus Bryant are going to get owned

2008?

I've been looking at all the available FA's this summer and teams with little or no cap space...

The Spurs will make a move this offseason to get a talented SF either via trade, draft day trade, or attempting to sign one outright in a year there will be limited $$$ for FA.

Pop and Holt will out manuever everyone.


I still say that Barry has a team option on the final year of his contract. I'm not sure about Horry...but they also hold a team option on Bowen, and Finley and Oberto have player options they are likely to opt out of. You are talking substantial cap space.

Spurs are going to wind up with lots of options this offseason and TimVP and MB will be exposed as haters without a cause lamely trying to get mileage out of old GhostWriter takes.

In short...PWNAGE.

Bookmark this thread. You heard it here first.

how much of free capspace ur talkn about if the all the options didnt pickup?

They don't have an option on Barry. I doubt Finley opts out, and why the hell would Oberto opt out of $2.5 million guaranteed? There's no way in hell his play has justified any better payday anywhere else. Rob probably retires, and the Spurs would be nuts to let Bruce walk.

Duncan + Parker + Ginobili + Barry + Elson + Butler + Udrih already costs us $51.25 million.

Add in Oberto's $2.5 million and you're looking at $53.75 million, assuming Rob retires, and Finley opts out.

The salary cap is $53.135 million right now.

More likely plan:

Rob retires, Bruce's option is picked up, Oberto doesn't exercise his option, Fin doesn't exercise his $3.1 million option, Scola is left in Europe, the Spurs payroll is $60 million, Bonner walks, the Spurs re-sign Vaughn or find a point guard project, and draft a Euro.

Finley signed for 2 years in the summer of '05. I'm pretty sure that his contract will expire without any options this summer.

So you are saying the Spurs will sign a significant player this summer and blow their 2008 capspace?

So what will happen in 2008? The Spurs will have Tim, Manu, Tony and player X and then just fill the roster with minimum contracts?

Bowen and Horry's final years are partially guaranteed. Oberto and Finley have player options.

I don't think there's any option on Barry.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FromWayDowntown

Finley signed for 2 years in the summer of '05. I'm pretty sure that his contract will expire without any options this summer.

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He signed for 3 years and has a player option this summer.

http://hoopshype.com/salaries/san_antonio.htm

http://www.storytellerscontracts.inf...07salaries.htm

Quote:

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Originally Posted by baseline bum

They don't have an option on Barry.

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Baseline...I generally have tremendous respect for you on the subject of cap and FA...however...you got ownt in 03 along with the rest of us on Danny Ferry's contract. I am certain I remember Barry's contract being a team option in the 4th year...I could be wrong, but so could hoopshype.

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I doubt Finley opts out,

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I don't. He can make more money, without having to play so much freaking D.

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and why the hell would Oberto opt out of $2.5 million guaranteed? There's no way in hell his play has justified any better payday anywhere else.

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False...Jerry West likes him. And he might opt out for more PT instead of riding the IR and thus ending his career...Oberto can opt out to sign a multi year deal.

Teams were interested in Rasho and Nazr too.

Quote:

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and the Spurs would be nuts to let Bruce walk.

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Hmmm...Pop was about to let David Robinson walk. And I'm not sure of the rules but if they can opt out and resign Bruce for less+ additional years, Bruce has proven he is willing to do this in the past.

Quote:

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Duncan + Parker + Ginobili + Barry + Elson + Butler + Udrih already costs us $51.9 million.

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At the least Barry's deal is going to be in the final year, thus making him a valuable player and trade piece in a S&T.

Quote:

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Add in Oberto's $2.5 million and you're looking at $54.4 million, assuming Rob retires, and Finley opts out.

The salary cap is $53.135 million right now.

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Say I'm right...how far will they be under the cap? If they can get more than the MLE under they cap that will put them in better position that most of the teams this offseason...with quite a few swings available.

Where's Finley going to get more money after the horrible season he's having?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kori Ellis

So you are saying the Spurs will sign a significant player this summer and blow their 2008 capspace?

So what will happen in 2008? The Spurs will have Tim, Manu, Tony and player X and then just fill the roster with minimum contracts?

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Yeah...basically like they already do, more or less.

They'll have slots for signing draftpicks, the LLE...

Quote:

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Bowen and Horry's final years are partially guaranteed. Oberto and Finley have player options.

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Are you saying the Spurs also have a team option Horry?

Even better...

Quote:

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I don't think there's any option on Barry.

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We'll see...it fits with the Spurs MO to have a team option on that final year of a 30 something player.



Bottom line is that if I am right the Spurs will be in a better position this summer than next to aquire the elusive talented SF...in a position to do it more cheaply as well.


4 draft picks.
Tradeable overseas commodities.
Multiple expiring contracts with skilled proven veterans.
Limited capspace available to most teams.
Lots of swings available.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by baseline bum

Where's Finley going to get more money after the horrible season he's having?

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Finley is a player that commands respect and has a lot to offer to a young team in need of leadership and experience...he was signed on the cheap by the Spurs.

Keep in mind, he's been banking courtesy of Mark Cuban as well...I doubt money is his primary consideration.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Whottt

Are you saying the Spurs also have a team option Horry?

Even better...

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I don't think it's actually an option. But I believe that they could waive him and only pay about 1/2 his salary.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by whottt

We'll see...it fits with the Spurs MO to have a team option on that final year of a 30 something player.

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I thought I had remembered that there was an option of some sort on him, but I can't find it anywhere. So I'm assuming at this point that there's not.

Sort of off topic, do you think they are re-signing Bonner this summer? It seems like by what Pop/PJ have said lately, they are. How much do you think he gets?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by baseline bum

and the Spurs would be nuts to let Bruce walk.

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Unless Bruce is the hoops equivalent of Nolan Ryan, this summer is exactly the right time to dump him. He's just at the point where you can tell he's lost a step, but he hasn't plunged off the precipice.

Even if somehow Oberto is still here...SA is going to start looking a whole lot like Team Argentina to Noccioni....

Ample S&T possiblities there with Chicago who has an abundance of what the Spurs lack(SF) and a need for what the Spurs have...young players with potential at the PF position.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kori Ellis

Sort of off topic, do you think they are re-signing Bonner this summer? It seems like by what Pop/PJ have said lately, they are. How much do you think he gets?

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I don't know...but I saw Pop reaming Bonner out bigtime in our last game.

Based on the PT he's getting...not much.

I like him...but let's face it, he's not the major need.

I too think that there isn't a 08 plan for a simple reason : Spurs have offered to Przybilla a 4 years contract last summer.

Spurs won't have capspace this summer but they will have tons of expirings to trade (around $20M).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by whottt

I don't know...but I saw Pop reaming Bonner out bigtime in our last game.

Based on the PT he's getting...not much.

I like him...but let's face it, he's not the major need.

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Well I don't think he'd be a priority at all. But Pop and PJ have been saying stuff like he's going to be a Spur a long, long time, etc. The reason I'm mentioning it is because that signing will eat at least $2M a year.

Yeah Bonner is a definite consideration this offseason...but then why aren't they giving him meaningful PT?

Pop also said Rasho was the key to our D...

He called Barry the smartest offensive player on the team.

He went to bat to get Horry resigned then benched him.

The ways of Pop are a mystery to all...

But to me it seems like the Spurs are set up to do something this offseason...not next...

And if you look at what they did last season they were extremely clever about capitalizing on the cap/roster woes of other teams...

They signed a Knicks RFA...that's unheard of.

I'd say their manuevering last offseason shows the roadmap for what they intend to do this offseason....Take advantage of teams in a financial/roster slot bind.

Hard limits on the roster slots are the new weapon in the small market arsenal for enterprising teams.

Two RFA's signed for a single MLE. Extremely well done and clever, regardless of how well the players are playing currently.

It's a new page to the Spurs playbook...a playbook that rests primarily in the hands of RC and Pop. And I predict MB and TimVP are going to get exposed for having a 2001 outlook in 2007. And somewhere GW will no longer be smiling.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Extra Stout

Unless Bruce is the hoops equivalent of Nolan Ryan, this summer is exactly the right time to dump him. He's just at the point where you can tell he's lost a step, but he hasn't plunged off the precipice.

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Not unless you're pretty confident of getting Gerald Wallace or Nocioni with the MLE, because that's about how much they'll have in capspace should they cut Bruce. I'm not saying sign him to an extension, but you can't just ditch your only SF when you don't have a single person who could play the position if you don't land Wallace or Nocioni (which is highly unlikely if you're only throwing MLE deals at them).

Devin Brown might be a possibility, but I'm sure this has been discussed from every aspect.

devin brown has about as much chance at making the time as jeffdrum21

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Originally Posted by FromWayDowntown

Finley signed for 2 years in the summer of '05. I'm pretty sure that his contract will expire without any options this summer.

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I´ve heard he´s got one more year left in his contract.

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Originally Posted by remingtonbo2001

Devin Brown might be a possibility, but I'm sure this has been discussed from every aspect.

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Devin Brown will not a be Spur again - Gregg Poppovich from the Pop Show 2006.

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Originally Posted by baseline bum

Not unless you're pretty confident of getting Gerald Wallace or Nocioni with the MLE, because that's about how much they'll have in capspace should they cut Bruce. I'm not saying sign him to an extension, but you can't just ditch your only SF when you don't have a single person who could play the position if you don't land Wallace or Nocioni (which is highly unlikely if you're only throwing MLE deals at them).

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Linton Johnson is out there with vastly improved game...

Deshawn Stephenson(Bruce replacement if nothing else).

Go check out the full 07 FA list....it's loaded.

Quote:

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I still say that Barry has a team option on the final year of his contract. I'm not sure about Horry...but they also hold a team option on Bowen, and Finley and Oberto have player options they are likely to opt out of. You are talking substantial cap space.

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I'll play along.

How much space?

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Originally Posted by ginobili_is_god

I see the Spurs throwing money at Gerald Wallace. He has the potential to be much better than Bruce Bowen ever was.

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The problem is they don't have money to throw. Even if they somehow got two of Oberto, Finley, Horry or Bowen off the books, they still aren't really under the cap by much at all.

The thing with Gerald Wallace if the Spurs throw money at him. He needs to learn how to stay healthy.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

I'll play along.

How much space?

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I asked bb that same question...you guys are the cap experts not I.

If it's possible to get more than the MLE then they have an advantage over many teams.

Additionally, if they can get under the cap it opens up trade possiblities heretofore unseen.

If you take Bowen, Horry, Barry, Oberto, Finley, etc of the books that puts the Spurs cap figure at around 40 million I'd say...


Keep in mind that Bruce may be flexible...that leaves resigning Vaughn, using the draft picks or signing some of our overseas picks...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Horry For 3!

The thing with Gerald Wallace if the Spurs throw money at him. He needs to learn how to stay healthy.

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A-yup. He's like a little Corey Maggette in training as far as missing at least 20 games a year goes. :dizzy

Quote:

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If you take Bowen, Horry, Barry, Oberto, Finley, etc of the books that puts the Spurs cap figure at around 40 million I'd say...

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Around $44 million in a scorched-earth scenario where no Spur free agent would be allowed to come back and no amount of guaranteed salary would count for any of the players you mentioned. I simply don't think they could have pulled this off with that many players unlike the Ferry example where it was one guy who was going to retire anyway. It makes sense with Horry, but not anyone else.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

Around $44 million in a scorched-earth scenario where no Spur free agent would be allowed to come back and no amount of guaranteed salary would count for any of the players you mentioned. I simply don't think they could have pulled this off with that many players unlike the Ferry example where it was one guy who was going to retire anyway. It makes sense with Horry, but not anyone else.

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But in reality Bowen and Horry's partial guarantee amounts would count, right? As well as a certain amount counts against the cap for each open roster spot to a point.

So, really they'd still be around $50M, correct?

Finley could retire and work for the spurs coaching or FO team.At least he wouldn´t suck any worst tham on the court this year.

:worthy: 2007 MASTER PLAN
^
|
whottt

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

Around $44 million in a scorched-earth scenario where no Spur free agent would be allowed to come back and no amount of guaranteed salary would count for any of the players you mentioned.

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Explain this...


"no amount of guranteed salary would count for any of the players you mentioned"

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I simply don't think they could have pulled this off with that many players unlike the Ferry example where it was one guy who was going to retire anyway. It makes sense with Horry, but not anyone else.

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It only has to make sense with Barry.

If they opt out with Bruce does that mean they can't resign him?

Who else would we want back?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ShoogarBear

:worthy: 2007 MASTER PLAN
^
|
whottt

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Maybe I am the only one impressed with what the Spurs FO did last offseason...but that doesn't mean it was something anyone else saw coming prior to the offseason.

SpursFO = ahead of the curve in tricks of the offseason as of this past offseason. Ahead of this board, ahead of the NBA.

Elson and Butler were 2 verifiable RFA steals for basically a MLE...

It was damned slick what they did.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by whottt

If they opt out with Bruce does that mean they can't resign him?

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We were talking about this in another thread yesterday. It depends if it's a team option with a partial guarantee if it's not picked up. Or there's no option with a partial guarantee if he's waived. Because if it's the latter, then he would have to clear waivers etc for the Spurs to re-sign him after they waive him.

What's the best case scenario?

Call it a hunch, but I have a feeling Bruce took one for the team if it was possible to do so.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by whottt

Maybe I am the only one impressed with what the Spurs FO did last offseason...but that doesn't mean it was something anyone else saw coming prior to the offseason.

SpursFO = ahead of the curve in tricks of the offseason as of this past offseason. Ahead of this board, ahead of the NBA.

Elson and Butler were 2 verifiable RFA steals for basically a MLE...

It was damned slick what they did.

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If Elson pans out (and that's still an if at this point), then you'll be right. Althought him panning out would have to be defined as the Spurs doing serious damage in the postseason.

As for Butler, I would say right now it's 70-30 that Zeke >>> Spurs on domestic talent once again.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by whottt

What's the best case scenario?

Call it a hunch, but I have a feeling Bruce took one for the team if it was possible to do so.

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The best case scenario is the former - that it's a team option with a partial guarantee. Then I guess that they could just not pick up the option and re-sign him for less money per year but more than one year (just like he did last time when he had a player option year). If the scenario is the latter, then I don't think they would just waive him and have someone else pick him up off waivers.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Horry For 3!

The thing with Gerald Wallace if the Spurs throw money at him. He needs to learn how to stay healthy.

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He also needs to learn how to shoot and handle the ball, and basically do everything except run and jump. Gerald Wallace is the Stromile Swift of SFs.

I don't see how Spurs can be by more than the MLE under the cap this summer.

Spurs payroll should be under $50M this summer (the MLE is about $5M and the salary cap will be at around $55M).

Let's take the base case scenario :
- Barry last year is a team option.
- Finley and Oberto opt out.
- Spurs dump Beno to a team.
- Spurs releases Horry and Bowen.

Spurs payroll will be :
Duncan + Parker + Manu + Elson + Butler = $45M

You should add to that unsigned first round picks that count agaisnt the cap : $800K*2 = $1.6M (Mahinmi + 07 first round pick)
You should too fill the roster to 12 with minimum contracts. $400k*5 = $2M

So it make a payroll of $48.6M without counting Horry's and Bowen's guaranteed money.


If Spurs do moves this summer : it will be with trades or with the MLE.

WTF? :lol

I don't even understand this thread. How exactly is timvp going to get owned? Because the Spurs are going to be magically under the cap this summer?

Duncan - $19M
Parker - $10.5M
Ginobili - $9.1M
Barry - $5.6M
Elson - $3M
Butler - $2.3M
Udrih - $1.7M

That arleady is $51.2M and means that the Spurs would only have the MLE. Count in the rest . . .

Oberto - $2.5M
Bowen - $2M (if the Spurs waive him)
Horry - $1.5M (if the Spurs waive him)

That's now $57.2 and that's being generous on how little guaranteed money Horry has on his contract. Then after that Finley has a $3M+ option. And none of this is counting re-signing Bonner or Ely.

In other words, whottt is talking out of his azz if he thinks that the Spurs are going far enough under the salary cap to have something more than the MLE to spend. What's funny is he admits to not being a "cap guy", so who knows where he got this idea.

Even the most fairy tale of estimates where only Duncan, Parker, Manu, Elson, Butler and Udrih are left, with $3M buyouts due to Horry and Bowen, that puts the Spurs at $48.6M. Add in cap penalty for having only six players under contract (6 X $412,718) and the Spurs would be at $51.1M. That's not even close to being under the cap enough to have anything other than the MLE.

Apology Accepted.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by whottt

Pop and Holt will out manuever everyone. You are talking substantial cap space.

Bookmark this thread. You heard it here first.

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Yes, everyone bookmark this thread.

Please.

:hat

I like timvp. He is smart.

What I want the Spurs to do, and what I've been begging them to do, is to forget about the 2008 Master Plan and go out this summer and do whatever it takes to put the best team on the floor. Forget opening cap space, just go into the summer with the idea that the number one priority is to put a championship team on the court.

How they could do that is by trading any number of their expiring contracts for players with multi-year contracts. Even if that means eating some bad salaries in the 2012-13 season, so be it.

The Spurs have the tools to bring in some good players this summer. They have tons of expiring contracts, tons of draft picks and tons of overseas players. There is no excuse to not go out there and make moves to bring in the needed players.

The only thing that would stop them would be the 2008 Master Plan or Holt being too cheap to sign off on more multi-year contracts.

That's the reality of the situation. whottt can believe in the Cap Space Fairy if he wants, but this is the troof.

So what you are saying is that you want the Spurs to compete for a championship right away.

Hmm...that's just crazy enough to work! :tu


Seriously...I would have to agree with timvp...the Spurs can do this...the question is will they. Its time for the FO to be aggressive.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by timvp

WTF? :lol

I don't even understand this thread. How exactly is timvp going to get owned? Because the Spurs are going to be magically under the cap this summer?

Duncan - $19M
Parker - $10.5M
Ginobili - $9.1M
Barry - $5.6M
Elson - $3M
Butler - $2.3M
Udrih - $1.7M

That arleady is $51.2M and means that the Spurs would only have the MLE. Count in the rest . . .

Oberto - $2.5M
Bowen - $2M (if the Spurs waive him)
Horry - $1.5M (if the Spurs waive him)

That's now $57.2 and that's being generous on how little guaranteed money Horry has on his contract. Then after that Finley has a $3M+ option. And none of this is counting re-signing Bonner or Ely.

In other words, whottt is talking out of his azz if he thinks that the Spurs are going far enough under the salary cap to have something more than the MLE to spend. What's funny is he admits to not being a "cap guy", so who knows where he got this idea.

Even the most fairy tale of estimates where only Duncan, Parker, Manu, Elson, Butler and Udrih are left, with $3M buyouts due to Horry and Bowen, that puts the Spurs at $48.6M. Add in cap penalty for having only six players under contract (6 X $412,718) and the Spurs would be at $51.1M. That's not even close to being under the cap enough to have anything other than the MLE.

Apology Accepted.

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Spurs have draft picks and foreign talent to use in a trade to get them further under the cap or in a S&T.

The callout is because you and MB have accused the Spurs of biding their time until 08....

I say that won't happen and there will be major moves this offseason to shore up the Spurs problem areas(IMO, SF)....owning you and MB in the process. Don't act like you haven't backed MB up on this...you've been bumping his 08 threads all year.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by whottt

Spurs have draft picks and foreign talent to use in a trade to get them further under the cap or in a S&T.

...

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Are you saying packaging draft picks and foreign talent with current players in a trade?

For the record, I think that whatever the Spurs do this summer, they'll end up with just the MLE and LLE to spend in free agency -- and I don't think they'll use them both. They might trade some people to try to upgrade, but in free agency I don't think they are going to have money to spend.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by whottt

Spurs have draft picks and foreign talent to use in a trade to get them further under the cap or in a S&T.

The callout is because you and MB have accused the Spurs of biding their time until 08....

I say that won't happen and there will be major moves this offseason to shore up the Spurs problem areas(IMO, SF)....owning you and MB in the process. Don't act like you haven't backed MB up on this...you've been bumping his 08 threads all year.

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Uh, I've been calling for the end of the 2008 plan. That means I want them to trade this summer and I have dozens of posts stating that.

I'll admit to getting owned if the Spurs somehow have more money to spend this summer than the MLE. Otherwise, you just owned yourself on this thread.

I want the Spurs to forget about the summer of 2008 and make trades this offseason. That's what I've been asking for all along. You saying you want the Spurs to make trades this offseason isn't exactly a new idea ... it's what I've talked about all season. :lol

Quote:

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Originally Posted by timvp

I want the Spurs to forget about the summer of 2008 and make trades this offseason. That's what I've been asking for all along. You saying you want the Spurs to make trades this offseason isn't exactly a new idea ... it's what I've talked about all season. :lol

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I'm not saying what I want the Spurs to do...I'm saying what they will do.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by whottt

I'm not saying what I want the Spurs to do...I'm saying what they will do.

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So you want them to follow through on timvp's ideas?

Got it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kori Ellis

Are you saying packaging draft picks and foreign talent with current players in a trade?

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Among other things...it's not entirely up to the Spurs to maintain this roster another season IMO. They have to have a plan to move this season.

I am saying it is easily possible for them to get under the cap or pull off a S&T due to the options contracts and trade assets they have...including 4 draft picks, at the minimum 7 expiring contracts worth @ 20 million(going into next season), and at least 2 well regarded NBA prospects playing overseas.

I am saying that looking at the cap situation for most teams this offseason, the teams that have cap, and the available FA pool...it's obvious they intend to move this offseason.


I don't know about you guys, but I personally am liking the Bobcats a whole lot right now, for a variety of reasons....edit: and the Bulls.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by timvp

So you want them to follow through on timvp's ideas?

Got it.

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So basically, if I do a forum search I won't find any TimVP Holt bashings? If that's true I will apologize lmao.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by whottt

I am saying it is easily possible for them to get under the cap ...

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Explain to me how it's easy to get under the cap by more the MLE.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by whottt

So basically, if I do a forum search I won't find any TimVP Holt bashings? If that's true I will apologize lmao.

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What does Holt bashing have to do with the Spurs getting under the cap this summer? You insist that the Spurs are going to have "substantial cap space". That has nothing to do with Holt.

Will you apologize when the Spurs don't even attempt to get under the cap?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by whottt

So basically, if I do a forum search I won't find any TimVP Holt bashings? If that's true I will apologize lmao.

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You are confused. timvp bashes Holt for not doing what he thinks he should do - spend money to build a contender. What you are advocating in this thread (trading, etc) is the same thing that timvp has been saying they should do. Starting this thread made you in agreement with him. The only difference is you think that they will do it and he thinks they should do it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kori Ellis

Explain to me how it's easy to get under the cap by more the MLE.

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Don't pick up the obvious contracts...if Finley and Oberto opt out...then do a trade with Charlotte either something for Wallace or just a straight up trade of veterans and picks for capspace and future picks.


Do a deal with Chicago...say Mahinimi or Scola and Barry for either one of their SF's or just a straight trade for cap space.


I am right that two of the teams most under the cap will be Chicago and Charlotte right?

Two teams with some nice SF talent...and some cap space...and trading relations with the Spurs.

And even if they can only free up more than the MLE, that still gives them more leverage that most teams this offseason for straight out signing players...they already have shown the know how to manipulate roster slots to their advantage.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by timvp

What does Holt bashing have to do with the Spurs getting under the cap this summer? You insist that the Spurs are going to have "substantial cap space". That has nothing to do with Holt.

Will you apologize when the Spurs don't even attempt to get under the cap?

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I'll aplogize if they do nothing of note. They are obviously going to do something.

Just asking a question ... Not meaning anything by it.

Has Holt brought up this '08 plan? I ask because it is standard practice to reduce salary before selling a team. I have seen what the Spurs have in store for '08 as far as salery goes .... its great for them ... But still ...

Can someone answer the question without bashing the Mavs fan?

Is this a worry or not? Could he be thinking of putting the team on the market?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dalhoop

Just asking a question ... Not meaning anything by it.

Has Holt brought up this '08 plan? I ask because it is standard practice to reduce salary before selling a team. I have seen what the Spurs have in store for '08 as far as salery goes .... its great for them ... But still ...

Can someone answer the question without bashing the Mavs fan?

Is this a worry or not? Could he be thinking of putting the team on the market?

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I don't think he's selling the team. But if he was the primary value in the Spurs lies in it's status as a championship contender...so anything that hurts those chances would probably hurt his ability to sell the team.

Quote:

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I don't think he's selling the team. But if he was the primary value in the Spurs lies in it's status as a championship contender...so anything that hurts those chances would probably hurt his ability to sell the team.

---

Thats all I wanted to know ... What the Spurs have in '08 is the best team at the lowest salary with lots of "flexability" .... very valuable .... and cost effective. It would be the perfict time to sell.

I might be owned by Alcohol tonight. That's about it.

The only way the Spurs end up with a decent 3 man is via trade and, of course, they have nothing to trade.

Qed.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dalhoop

Just asking a question ... Not meaning anything by it.

Has Holt brought up this '08 plan? I ask because it is standard practice to reduce salary before selling a team. I have seen what the Spurs have in store for '08 as far as salery goes .... its great for them ... But still ...

Can someone answer the question without bashing the Mavs fan?

Is this a worry or not? Could he be thinking of putting the team on the market?

---

Holt has never indicated that he was thinking about selling the team, but several of us have pointed out that keeping the commitments down maximizes the book value of the team, and may be a prelude to such a move.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kori Ellis

But in reality Bowen and Horry's partial guarantee amounts would count, right?

---

Right that's why I said my figure wasn't counting them.

Quote:

---

As well as a certain amount counts against the cap for each open roster spot to a point.

---

I ballparked those in the $44 million

Quote:

---

So, really they'd still be around $50M, correct?

---

It all depends on how much the partial guarantees are, but anywhere between $45 and $50 million is acceptable in whottt's fantasy.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by whottt

Explain this...


"no amount of guranteed salary would count for any of the players you mentioned"

---

If any of the playters waived had a partially guaranteed deal, the Spurs would have to pay the guaranteed money and it would count against the cap -- unless some other team picked up the contract.

Quote:

---

If they opt out with Bruce does that mean they can't resign him?

---

Signing him for anything above the minimum would eat into the cap space.

Quote:

---

Who else would we want back?

---

If Horry is gone, re-signing Bonner becomes critical -- and he counts quite a bit over his current salay against the cap until he's re-signed.

Quote:

---

Holt has never indicated that he was thinking about selling the team, but several of us have pointed out that keeping the commitments down maximizes the book value of the team, and may be a prelude to such a move.

---

So you pretty much admitted, you've pulled that out of your ass.

Bump.

I accidentally stumbled across this thread in a forum search. whottt's takes in this thread are legendary. That cap space due to the secret opt out in Barry's contract sure has been nice this summer :rollin

It appears that timvp was probably wrong about The 2008 Plan (although the Spurs could still maneuver to get under the salary cap next summer). The bad news is that whatever plan the Spurs are on looks even worse than The 2008 Plan. At least The 2008 Plan included an attempt to add a 4th star in the summer of 2008.

Currently, The Stay Under The Luxury Tax Threshold By All Means Necessary Plan looks pretty ugly. It's the same as The 2008 Plan without the financial windfall next summer.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by timvp

Bump.

I accidentally stumbled across this thread in a forum search. whottt's takes in this thread are legendary. That cap space due to the secret opt out in Barry's contract sure has been nice this summer :rollin

It appears that timvp was probably wrong about The 2008 Plan (although the Spurs could still maneuver to get under the salary cap next summer). The bad news is that whatever plan the Spurs are on looks even worse than The 2008 Plan. At least The 2008 Plan included an attempt to add a 4th star in the summer of 2008.

Currently, The Stay Under The Luxury Tax Threshold By All Means Necessary Plan looks pretty ugly. It's the same as The 2008 Plan without the financial windfall next summer.

---

Hey...you aren't out of the woods yet...if the Spurs do a trade to bring in a key player the owning still counts.


It's not over yet...no pwnt pre-empting at ST please...wait until it's done.

If the Spurs make a move to bring in a key SF(even by S%T) you are still owned. No ifs ands or butts.

If the Spurs roster stays the same and the Spurs don't do anything signifigant...I get owned.

This is not a reverse jinx or fucking around thread btw...I am dead serious.


The motivation for this thread lies in my sincere belief that there ain no fucking way the Spurs would be stupid enough to attempt a repeat without adding a quality SF capable of defending the bigger sf's. Simple really...if they do you get owned and are forced to dine on crow as well as your own cynicism. And the schitzy one will join you for that dinner...


Keep in mind...FO moves are not my arena of expertise...so an owning by me in this category would be equivalent to you realizing a player is/or isn't a choker...IOW, a major owning...like Ichiro leading the league in HR.

So if the Spurs sign someone other than Udoka timvp gets owned? If not, you get owned?

My favorite parts of this thread are whottt throwing Bowen, Horry and Oberto under the bus before the playoffs even started. He also predicted Bonner wouldn't re-sign.

Not to mention this gem:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by whottt

Elson and Butler were 2 verifiable RFA steals for basically a MLE...

---

Butler a verifiable steal? Haven't you been bashing him ever since the Scola thread and calling him a fat, mumbling bust?

Actually, I have to give whottt props for being consistent in his support of whatever the F.O. does.

And I have to give myself props for this:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ShoogarBear

:worthy: 2007 MASTER PLAN
^
|
whottt

---

whottt's been smoking too much of that shit with the Mookie Crew.

Whottt got fucking owned

Anyone that can read this thread can see I never got owned...no matter how much timvp sidetracked the issue...

Tried to make it about getting under the salary cap...etc.

Now he's trying to make it seem signifigant that I liked Butler at the time of this thread but am not that high on him...

Forgetting the training camp he just had where he showd both his offensive skill set...and complete lack of anything else.


TimVP and MB claimed the Spurs would do nothing this summer and that everything was about 2008...if that holds true TimVP and MB's second hand GhostWriter rehashes will hold some water...if not, they'll be exposed for having some lame and cynical takes(in addition to the second hand take it already is).

Might this mark the equivalent of a battle of artemesion in the whotttttimvp wars of summer 2007?

whott go PZWN3D so bad, I'm surprised he's not claiming this thread is covered by executive privilege, and thus not subject to bumping.

timvp is risking it big, Toomer Benvindiisti style. If this comes back to bite him in the arse, he'll have owned himself back to the stone age. Perhaps it is the timvp that is using the reverse mojo ploy....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by exstatic

whott go PZWN3D so bad, I'm surprised he's not claiming this thread is covered by executive privilege, and thus not subject to bumping.

---

Umm...I've had this thread favorited since the day I made it...

You wish I got owned. Just like you wish I said Coyote > Drob...must be nice to make up fantasies and claim ownership.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by whottt

Anyone that can read this thread can see I never got owned...no matter how much timvp sidetracked the issue...

---

Yeah, anyone except for everyone who has read the thread so far.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by whottt

Tried to make it about getting under the salary cap...etc.

---

Do you not see what you posted?

"I still say that Barry has a team option on the final year of his contract. I'm not sure about Horry...but they also hold a team option on Bowen, and Finley and Oberto have player options they are likely to opt out of. You are talking substantial cap space." -- whottt

You claimed salary cap space, not me. In addition to that, you threw Bowen, Horry and Oberto under the bus before the playoffs.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by whottt

Now he's trying to make it seem signifigant that I liked Butler at the time of this thread but am not that high on him...

---

You called him a steal a couple months ago. The Spurs make a trade and you change you opinion of him.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by whottt

Forgetting the training camp he just had where he showd both his offensive skill set...and complete lack of anything else.

---

Training camp is in October.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by whottt

TimVP and MB claimed the Spurs would do nothing this summer and that everything was about 2008

---

The Spurs have done nothing this summer other than re-signing their own players while throwing away some of their assets. How is my take that the Spurs would do nothing wrong?

And yes, next summer will be the summer they try to add a significant piece to the puzzle. This summer we are hoping for Udoka. I like Udoka and all but he's far from the major splash you predicted.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by whottt

...if that holds true TimVP and MB's second hand GhostWriter rehashes will hold some water...if not, they'll be exposed for having some lame and cynical takes(in addition to the second hand take it already is).

---

I'm not sure what your obsession is with GhostWriter is all about. You think he invented questioning the Spurs front office?

I've questioned and complimented the Spurs front office before GhostWriter found the internet. GhostWriter's shtick was to question every move the Spurs ever did while clamoring for "ballers" the Spurs had no means of acquiring. I know you are a relative newbie but anyone who has been here a long time knows that GW didn't invent thinking the Spurs made a bad move.

Gay forum.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cant_Be_Faded

timvp is risking it big, Toomer Benvindiisti style. If this comes back to bite him in the arse, he'll have owned himself back to the stone age. Perhaps it is the timvp that is using the reverse mojo ploy....

---

It'd be pretty tough for this to turn around and bite me. The Spurs didn't have any salary cap room. Brent Barry didn't have the team option on his contract whottt predicted. whottt will try to salvage the players he threw under the bus, but it's pretty late for that.

If the Spurs trade an expiring contract for a player with multiple years left, I'm not sure how that would be considered ownage since that's what I've been begging the Spurs to do since 2001.

Timvp is a master of spurstalk rhetoric.

If Spurs sign Udoka and move Barry...or if they just sign Udoka...

Timvp gets owned. Whether he likes it or not...

He and MB said it was all about next season and the Spurs wouldn't be doing anything signifigant to upgrade the team this offseason...

If they do it, timvp gets owned.


They tried to make it about the cap, but as anyone that can read can plainly see...I said they'd do it by trade, by not picking up options, or by not having options picked up, or just by plain old doing...the point was not how would they do it...the point was that they'd do it.


I can't believe anyone is saying I got owned...other than timvp, who no doubt senses the Spurs are about to do something substantial and is trying to get off the hook.




It doesn't matter if I liked Butler or not at the time...it doesn't matter if I typed training camp when I meant summer league, it doesn't matter if I thought Barry had an opt out clause, Oberto, Bowen, Horry etc...it doesn't matter if I wasn't sold on the teams title chances at the time of this article...


All that matters, is that TimVP and MB talked shit all season long about 08 08 08....and they are going to get owned on it.


Period.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by whottt

If Spurs sign Udoka and move Barry...or if they just sign Udoka...

Timvp gets owned. Whether he likes it or not...

---

:wtf

Udoka isn't a long SF.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mr. Body

:wtf

Udoka isn't a long SF.

---

He's a substantial defensive addition...

You just aren't getting the point of this thread...the point of this thread is that TimVP and Marcus Bryant claimed all year long the Spurs weren't goin to do much this offseason except stand pat and set things up for 08.

That is the point...if the Spurs get under enough to add someone that is an upgrade over this years team...they lose. It's that simple...they already shed some salary where they can add an upgrade without changing the payroll much, so I'd say TimVP and MB have already been outsmarted...unless the roster stands pat as it is right now, in which case I am owned. And that's the only way.

You know timvp used to have some decent takes...but now all he does is stand around ripping hte players, FO and team all season long, but he never picks against them...so he's the ultimate hedger. And MB has always been schitzy...he goes into a rage if anyone rips the Spurs, besides him...




Lame.


TimVp used to go out on a limb...but now he's scared...he's the ultimate hedger.

To be fair, this whole discussion started at a time when only the most blinded homer believed another title was on the way.

If the Spurs hadn't won the championship and were doing what they are doing now, I think even whottt would be pretty pissed.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by whottt

If Spurs sign Udoka and move Barry...or if they just sign Udoka...

Timvp gets owned. Whether he likes it or not...

---

:lmao

I'd get owned if the Spurs signed Udoka? You consider Udoka the huge splash you predicted with this thread? I'm the one who wanted Udoka when the summer started because he was a realistic addition ... even if The 2008 Plan was still intact.

The Spurs sign the one player who timvp highlighted as the summer started and timvp would get owned. Classic.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by whottt

He and MB said it was all about next season and the Spurs wouldn't be doing anything signifigant to upgrade the team this offseason...

If they do it, timvp gets owned.

---

Keeping the team exactly the same and adding Udoka isn't a significant upgrade.

Are you seriously trying to say that?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by whottt

They tried to make it about the cap, but as anyone that can read can plainly see...I said they'd do it by trade, by not picking up options, or by not having options picked up, or just by plain old doing...the point was not how would they do it...the point was that they'd do it.

---

Go back and re-read the first couple pages of the thread where you kept insisting the Spurs would have salary cap space.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by whottt

I can't believe anyone is saying I got owned...other than timvp, who no doubt senses the Spurs are about to do something substantial and is trying to get off the hook.

---

WTF:lol

Why would I bump this thread if I thought I was about to get owned? You make no sense.

And for the record, I had forgotten all about this thread. I accidentally found it while I was looking for something else. If I would have remembered it existed, I would have bumped it during the Scola fiasco.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by whottt

It doesn't matter if I liked Butler or not at the time

---

You did.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by whottt

...it doesn't matter if I typed training camp when I meant summer league

---

Not sure what you meant.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by whottt

, it doesn't matter if I thought Barry had an opt out clause,

---

So whottt being absolutely wrong doesn't matter at all? Amazing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by whottt

Oberto, Bowen, Horry etc

---

You sure tried to move swiftly over that issue. You threw those three players under the bus before the playoffs. Admit something for once.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by whottt

...it doesn't matter if I wasn't sold on the teams title chances at the time of this article...

---

You were wrong about that also. Thanks for reminding me.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by whottt

All that matters, is that TimVP and MB talked shit all season long about 08 08 08....and they are going to get owned on it.

---

So the Spurs re-signing their own free agents while trading away a couple of their assets for nothing makes my take wrong that in this summer they'd probably do nothing?

Even if the Spurs sign Udoka, that's who I thought they'd sign with The 2008 Plan in full effect. Go research who brought up his name first this summer as a player the Spurs should target. He's a cheap, realistic option that would fit on the team. He's a far cry from the big, huge significant splash you were talking about in this thread.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by whottt

Period.

---

You got owned on so many points and now you are clinging to the hope that the Spurs sign a player for half of the MLE that timvp pointed out first so that you can save some sort of face. That's freakin' classic.

You got owned on your changed view of Butler. You got owned on your throwing Bowen, Horry and Oberto under the bus before the playoffs started. You got owned when all along you gave the Spurs no chance to win a championship. You got owned when you said Brent Barry's contract could be opted out on this summer. You got owned when you said that the Spurs would have salary cap space. You got owned when you predicted Cavs in 5.

You got owned on each of your takes in here. The best you can hope for is that you don't get totally owned on the take that the Spurs will do something this summer. You've already hopped off the "big, significant acquisition" bandwagon. Now you are just hoping for anything so that you don't get 100% owned.

If the Spurs signed Udoka, your record in this thread might improve to 0-20-1.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by whottt

He's a substantial defensive addition...

You just aren't getting the point of this thread...the point of this thread is that TimVP and Marcus Bryant claimed all year long the Spurs weren't goin to do much this offseason except stand pat and set things up for 08.

That is the point...if the Spurs get under enough to add someone that is an upgrade over this years team...they lose. It's that simple...they already shed some salary where they can add an upgrade without changing the payroll much, so I'd say TimVP and MB have already been outsmarted...unless the roster stands pat as it is right now, in which case I am owned. And that's the only way.

---

:lmao

You don't even understand how the CBA works. The Spurs had the MLE no matter what they did. They didn't do anything special to be able to land Udoka.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ShoogarBear

To be fair, this whole discussion started at a time when only the most blinded homer believed another title was on the way.

If the Spurs hadn't won the championship and were doing what they are doing now, I think even whottt would be pretty pissed.

---

I didn't pick against the Spurs because of the talent on the team...

I picked against them because Pop fucking wouldn't stop playing $#%$#W%$%W small ball.

Luckily he went away from small ball, and Michael Finley as the Starting Center just in time...


I was fairly happy with last offseason, and was thrilled after game 1 of this year...put small ball all season long put me in a negative frame of mind...


And make no mistake about it...had we played small ball in the playoffs to the extent we did against Dallas last year...there would be no championship.


I have found the only way to get Pop to do what I want, is to bet against him...in such a way that I lose the bet, but I still win the war.


Case in point on the minutes debate with Brent Barry in 05...
This year it was small ball.



Other than that..the only other Spurs reg that owns me is Bruce Bowen...I have been trying to get Bruce out of the starting lineup since 03...

Not because I don't like him...but becuse he's damn old and skinny, and has been for a long time, yet he keeps becoming more and more of a freak as every year goes by. Bruce was the Finals MVP IMO...and he played arguably his best basketball as a Spur in the finals and most of these playoffs...


Hats off to Bruce...however, he's still old and skinny and I'd still like to have someone else in the rotation.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by whottt

You wish I got owned. Just like you wish I said Coyote > Drob...must be nice to make up fantasies and claim ownership.

---

You did say that. I was in the fucking chat room when your said that weak shit. You said the Coyote had a bigger impact on Spurs fans and the Spurs in general than David Robinson. How you can deny it, is just plain insane. You got heated and lept defended that take even when many of us were bashing you for it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by timvp

:lmao

You don't even understand how the CBA works. The Spurs had the MLE no matter what they did. They didn't do anything special to be able to land Udoka.

---

You guys claimed they wouldn't be using it...they wouldn't be doing anything...

And in fact, you might still turn out to be right...


If they go into the season with the Roster as it is currently constructed only adding Mahinmi, Marcus Williams and perhaps someone like CJ Watson...

You'll be right, and I'll be as pissed as you and MB are...


Until that happens though...you can't claim any kind of scoreboard and are still on the hook for being owned...


And actually...it'll be nice to take Chump and exs down with you.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Buddy Holly

You did say that. I was in the fucking chat room when your said that weak shit. You said the Coyote had a bigger impact on Spurs fans and the Spurs in general than David Robinson. How you can deny it, is just plain insane. You got heated and lept defended that take even when many of us were bashing you for it.

---

Idiot...you don't know shit.you were not even posting on this board at the time it occurred...you had your tongue up Dusty's ass 24/7 and hated this board at that time...

So STFU and don't say you were here for shit you weren't here for...


It was the title of a thread...started by exs, long long time ago...a misleading title.

So just shut the fuck up...you liar.

You proven liar.

The funniest part of this thread is that Whottt thinks that 6'5 Udoka is a substantial addition at small forward. Be honest - how many people in this thread even knew anything about Udoka's game before it was reported that the Spurs were looking at him? And I don't mean that you just read LJ's post about him early in the offseason - I mean that you really knew what he was about and thought he'd be a substantial addition.

I guess we all have our different definitions of substantial though. :lol

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kori Ellis

The funniest part of this thread is that Whottt thinks that 6'5 Udoka is a substantial addition at small forward. Be honest - how many people in this thread even knew anything about Udoka's game before it was reported that the Spurs were looking at him? And I don't mean that you just read LJ's post about him early in the offseason - I mean that you really knew what he was about and thought he'd be a substantial addition.

I guess we all have our different definitions of substantial though. :lol

---

I did...I picked him up from TimVP in the Jason Kidd trade in the D-League and had him on my D-League Team for the rest of the season.


Nice try...but he is an addition to the roster...a nice one. I don't care how tall he is...if the Spurs dumped some salary and are able to add him without adding much additional payroll...they(TimVP and MB) still get owned....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by whottt

You know timvp used to have some decent takes...but now all he does is stand around ripping hte players, FO and team all season long, but he never picks against them...so he's the ultimate hedger. And MB has always been schitzy...he goes into a rage if anyone rips the Spurs, besides him...




Lame.


TimVp used to go out on a limb...but now he's scared...he's the ultimate hedger.

---

:jack

Ripping the players? Links? You are the one who threw half the team under the bus in this thread. Most of my posts on the forum are defending the players in some fashion. The only player I bashed last summer and this season consistently was Elson. Outside of the first game fluke which fooled me, I've called him crap and he is crap. What other players have I ripped?

Ripping the front office? I was the biggest supporter of the Rasho/Bonner trade on the forum. I thought Splitter was a good pick. I thought the Ely trade was a good one. I thought signing White was a good move. I've supported way more moves than I've ripped them for over the last couple years.

I've ripped them for signing Melvin Sanders repeatedly, which I was 100% right about. I ripped them for the Scola trade which I'll end up being right about. I ripped them for Elson which I'll end up being right about. What else have I ripped them on?

And I don't go out on limbs? I invented the Elson limb. I said Devin would be a good signing for the minimum and I was right. I've gone out on more limbs than anyone else on this forum. Mercer to be waived, Heal to be waived, 10-10 start, Rasho signing sucks, Melvin Sanders sucks, Jason Hart sucks, etc. How much more do you want from me?

You think you should get some bonus points for picking against the Spurs? You picked Cavs in 5 and got owned.

Oh but let's remember how that wasn't really your pick, that was you hedging errrrr reverse jinxing the Spurs to victory.

:jack

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by whottt

I did...I picked him up from TimVP in the Jason Kidd trade in the D-League and had him on my D-League Team for the rest of the season.


Nice try...but he is an addition to the roster...a nice one. I don't care how tall he is...if the Spurs dumped some salary and are able to add him without adding much additional payroll...they still get owned.

---

Substantial addition is a guy who is going to get minutes and contribute. If Udoka is playing behind Manu/Bowen/Finley/Barry - then he wouldn't be substantial. If someone gets traded, then I guess he could get some minutes. But please, he's not the type of player you were talking about in the start of this thread.