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Nazr had the worst hands in the world and, basketball-wise, was dumber than a bag of hammers. Rasho was morally opposed to dunking and was an atrocious free throw shooter.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kori Ellis
Elson is as statistically productive as those two, but he seems to be better in a few small but meaningful ways. Now, to be fair to Rasho, he was great in the realm of team defense. Elson seems to be improving in that area.
Nazr averaged 7.1 points and 6.7 rebounds in 23 minutes per game during the 2005 playoffs. I'll be happy if Elson can average 6.5 and 6.Quote:
Originally Posted by SRJ
Is that too much to ask?
If Elson alters 6 shots a game while discouraging the opponent to drive to the rack repeatedly (unlike Small Balls), the "alter" will not show up in the stats.
I think it's wrong to judge 100% on boards.
congrats...19-0 when elson plays in a great accomplishment.
Exactly. I want a stat called, "MtOTTAi" or "Made the Opponent Think Twice About it."Quote:
Originally Posted by Fabbs
That's all that Elson really needs to do. If he doesn't get 4 blocks and 8 boards per, so what if our defense is solid? Lately it's been reminding me a lot of Spurs teams of the past...
To put up a like analogy, Tony Parker rarely dishes out 8+ assists per game. Are we ready to start calling him out for not contributing enough to the passing game? Does it mean when he passes to Bowen who passes to Finley who passes to Duncan for an easy layup that Parker isn't doing his job to get assists and help the offense?
From what I've seen, Elson is a hard worker.
That's something Nazr was, but he didn't have a head for the game and couldn't catch a pass.
That's something Rasho didn't project, I never felt like his heart was really in the game.
Elson brings emotion and heart. You can see this guy wants it.
And that's enough for me at this point, stats be damned.
If he actually plays defense, I'd agree with all that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cry Havoc
So far this year, he hasn't. Only very recently has he started to catch on and actually do the basics like rotate and contest shots. The rest of the season, he sucked defensively and was constantly getting yelled at/pulled aside, etc by his teammates and coaches.
Hopefully his defensive progress continues and improves.
And he still has to try to box out and rebound, the Spurs lose when they get killed on the glass.
No it's not - but if I told you I was from the future and Elson was going to average 6.5 points and 6 rebounds per game during the Spurs' 2007 playoff run, would that tell you with any reliability whether the Spurs won the championship, lost in the first round, or any result in between?Quote:
Originally Posted by timvp
Of course not, because what Elson produces statistically doesn't matter very much. Rotations shorten during the playoffs and matchups dictate minutes (and in turn, stats) more than anything else.
Jaren Jackson was the ultimate example of this. Do you think, back in 1999, someone out there said, "We need Jaren Jackson to raise his game if we're going to win a championship?" I doubt it. We couldn't have swept the Lakers without him going nuts from three, but that's entirely different from saying we needed more from Jaren Jackson. If the gameplan against a given opponent relies on a role player elevating his play to an unrealistic degree, that's a flimsy gameplan. It's about as realistic as saying "We need to stop Kobe to beat the Lakers"; well, if that's the plan, good luck.
Back to your 6.5/6 scenario - if I told you Tim Duncan was going to average 14 points and 8.5 rebounds during the 2007 playoffs, that's probably a little more revealing than Elson's hypothetical 6.5/6, isn't it?
Not part of the plan, but I think that's what it's gonna take to beat Dallas and maybe even the Suns this year. One or more of our role players is gonna have to go absolutely nuts. A miracle, in other words.Quote:
Originally Posted by SRJ
I'm not as pessimistic, but you may be right. Phoenix on the other hand is a paper tiger. We have nothing to fear from the likes of them. They've been worse against top teams than we've been.Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt Bringdown
I think it's time for y'all to finaly recognize Elson by calling him the official "X-man" of the silver and black.
When he plays defense and averages six rebounds, I will :lolQuote:
Originally Posted by alamo50
He's learning each and every single day.
Remember he came from Denver.
;)
His rebounding has regressed since the All-Star break. So he needs to get more out of his education. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by alamo50
I know people will say that I'm a Oberto hater but we started playing better when Oberto went to the bench. Oberto terrible defense was killing us.
Like a lot of people said, I'm OK with Elson. He give us the same Rasho/Nazr stats
I like the revenge factor. The Dutch have been waiting 60 years to pay back the Germans. :clapQuote:
Originally Posted by Kori Ellis
If you look at Spurs since Duncan arrived, the center's stats are almost irrelevant to team success. Even Robinson's stats weren't that great when the team became a champ.Quote:
Originally Posted by timvp
How effective the big man next to Duncan plays show itself only in Ws and titles, not stats. The "glue" that is provided doesn't show in the box score. I bet the stats for Rasho, Nazr and Horry -- taken alone -- would deceive one as to who was effective in the center role and who wasn't.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kori Ellis
c'mon kori, give him some love!!! you've only given him "backhanded compliments". when he plays good, they play good. (btw, just poking at ya!) are you convinced that he's the better player to start than Oberto? i would still take elson over oberto & rasho any day.
I think FO is getting more confident, more sure of his role, more convinced that his contributions really can and do make difference, taking real responsibility for the outcome of the game. He seems to be less bemused and befuddled, as if what is happening around him now isn't as random as it was in November, that he can actually cause stuff to happen, rather than have random stuff happen to and around him. :lol
The defensive schemes and offensive schemes are some of the toughest in the league.
I don't know why its so horrible thats it taken him a while to get the schemes.
Elson's defense has been a nice surprise lately...I've been impressed. He's nothing special but he's obviously doing something right.
If you double Elson's minutes he's pulling down 10 boards in @36 minutes per game, compare that to Duncan's rebounding numbers.
It's his minutes that need to go up.
Plus...Duncan is a rebound vacume. Not many get past him. Just about every bigman that has played next to him has had their rebound total go down, including David Robinson.
Elson's probably not as good of a rebounder as Nazr, that was what Nazr did best...but he's got better hands and offense, he's faster, and he doesn't pick up as many stupid fouls.
And it's not like Nazr had the D mastered either.
I don't know if it's fair to consider Elson a C in the traditional sense...it's like every team in the NBA but the Spurs has a 6'8-6'9 guy that just on the team for his athleticism, that just goes out there and does athletic stuff like rebound and get dunks, having a big game every once in a while....that's what Elson is for the Spurs...he's just bigger than most of them. He's not really a C.
I so do want to see Elson on Dirk!Quote:
Originally Posted by SenorSpur
playing with elson is better than playing small ball. and that's the only thing that matters.
someone staple that to popovich's forehead.