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Mavs evoke comparisons with all-time greats
March 4, 2007, 2:14AM
NBA NOTEBOOK
Mavs evoke comparisons with all-time greats
Dallas on pace to end season with second-best mark
By JONATHAN FEIGEN
Copyright 2007 Houston Chronicle
The theory went for a while that the Mavericks' 0-4 start turned out to be a good thing for not only the impact it might have had on everything that has happened since, but to allow them to avoid the talk of chasing 72 wins.
The Mavericks have not had to concern themselves with discussions of chasing the Bulls' record 72-10 season in 1995-96. But that time has come. Time to feel some pressure. Time for tough comparisons. Time for endless questions about the same thing no matter how mundane the answers might be.
No longer should the Mavericks be compared to the rest of the NBA this season, at least until the postseason. Their standings should be with the best.
There are plenty of remarkable numbers to describe the Mavericks' season. Only the Suns have a better home record than the Mavericks' 21-6 road record. The Mavericks are the first NBA team to have three winning streaks of at least 12 games. With a win over the visiting Magic on Saturday, they have won 36 of 38 games and 22 in a row at home.
But to put it all in context, if the Mavericks maintain their pace this season, they would finish with 69 wins, matching the second-best record in NBA history. With a win Saturday night against the Magic, if they were to maintain their pace since the 0-4 start, they would be on target to win 71 games, one shy of the Bulls' record.
Of the 11 teams to have won at least 65 games, 10 have also won the NBA championship, nine produced the MVP. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar won the MVP in 1971-72, the year the Lakers had their 33-game winning streak (snapped by Abdul-Jabbar's Bucks) and finished with a 69-13 record. Karl Malone won the 1996-97 MVP the season the Bulls went 69-13.
The 1972-73 Celtics went 68-14, but the Knicks won the championship.
All four teams to have won 69 or more games also won the championship.
Of course, the Mavericks already bucked history by blowing a 2-0 Finals lead last spring. But having come so close, the taste of a championship has moved them to this season's run. They have seemed as driven as ever, demanding a certain standard for each game rather than a record, which probably explains the numbers. But they speak unusually often and openly of the pursuit of the title they let slip away.
"We just continue to try to gather information about our team — the good, the bad and the ugly," Dallas coach Avery Johnson said after Thursday's win over the Cavaliers. "We don't have anything to prove for a game in February. Prove it when you end the season with a victory."
They'll get that chance. But for now, let them chase the Bulls.
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Re: Mavs evoke comparisons with all-time greats
Regular season and all, but daaamn, the Mavs are really quite impressive, even a Spurs homer like myself, am impressed with AJ's coaching job. Now will this translate to a championship, only time will tell, but the Mavs fans have to be on some kind of high right now.
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Re: Mavs evoke comparisons with all-time greats
No doubt about it. Living in Dallas, I'm able to view them more closely. I just can't believe how deep this team is. The only hole I see in their game is sometimes their defense will have a moment of collapse. But night in and out there is always someone on that roster that steps up and makes an impact.
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Re: Mavs evoke comparisons with all-time greats
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Originally Posted by G-Nob
No doubt about it. Living in Dallas, I'm able to view them more closely. I just can't believe how deep this team is. The only hole I see in their game is sometimes their defense will have a moment of collapse. But night in and out there is always someone on that roster that steps up and makes an impact.
Same with me. Living in Big D also allows me the chance to watch many of their local games on TV. The thing that strikes me, other tnan their depth, is how well-coached they are. AJ's influence is thoroughly ingrained into this team. They are quick to every loose ball, they're relentless on the glass and they are unselfishly looking to make that "extra pass" on the offensive end. Oh, they're defense isn't bad either.
Their weaknesses are they do not have the consistent inside post game usually reserved for previous championship success, and, as G-Nob indicated, they will have the occasional defensive collapse. While they DO drive the ball to the bucket, they still mostly rely on the efficiency of their jump shots.
The Mavs are playing with a level of confidence and mental toughness in which they KNOW they're going to "squeeze" teams down the stretches of tight games. Losing to the Heat in the NBA Finals, has given them that proverbial "chip on their shoulder". There is no lack of focus with this group.
There's no doubt that this team is certainly better than last year's team and they are the frontrunners to walk away with the NBA Championship. They are indeed scary, but they ARE NOT INVINCIBLE.
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Re: Mavs evoke comparisons with all-time greats
with the payroll mavs have and the thousand coaches they should have no holes
and a owner who sends in tapes to stern on every foul called against the mavs
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Re: Mavs evoke comparisons with all-time greats
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Originally Posted by ducks
with the payroll mavs have and the thousand coaches they should have no holes
and a owner who sends in tapes to stern on every foul called against the mavs
Yeah, Mavs are still paying Finley and he is very expensive.
Like Maves, Spurs also sent tape to Mr. Stern when Finley put his ball on Terry's face. Spurs are no different to Mavs at begging and crying.
Ducks!! Get real, everybody has a hole in order to survive. We all know Spurs "WERE" the greatest.
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Re: Mavs evoke comparisons with all-time greats
Weren't the Pistons on a 70+ win pace about this time last year?
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Re: Mavs evoke comparisons with all-time greats
I guess Mayor Laura Miller and the city council can start planning the championship victory parade in downtown Dallas again. Please do. The Spurs love being written off, being counted out ect... See you in the playoffs.
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Re: Mavs evoke comparisons with all-time greats
That's right, Avery, keep chasing that record . . . and keep playing those starters lots of minutes.
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Re: Mavs evoke comparisons with all-time greats
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Originally Posted by SenorSpur
Same with me. Living in Big D also allows me the chance to watch many of their local games on TV. The thing that strikes me, other tnan their depth, is how well-coached they are. AJ's influence is thoroughly ingrained into this team. They are quick to every loose ball, they're relentless on the glass and they are unselfishly looking to make that "extra pass" on the offensive end. Oh, they're defense isn't bad either.
Their weaknesses are they do not have the consistent inside post game usually reserved for previous championship success, and, as G-Nob indicated, they will have the occasional defensive collapse. While they DO drive the ball to the bucket, they still mostly rely on the efficiency of their jump shots.
The Mavs are playing with a level of confidence and mental toughness in which they KNOW they're going to "squeeze" teams down the stretches of tight games. Losing to the Heat in the NBA Finals, has given them that proverbial "chip on their shoulder". There is no lack of focus with this group.
There's no doubt that this team is certainly better than last year's team and they are the frontrunners to walk away with the NBA Championship. They are indeed scary, but they ARE NOT INVINCIBLE.
well put, and i agree that while we are playing REALLY well, we do have spots that can be vulnerable. The mavs saving grace right now is Avery is pretty good at covering those most of the time.
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Re: Mavs evoke comparisons with all-time greats
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Originally Posted by ThomasGranger
That's right, Avery, keep chasing that record . . . and keep playing those starters lots of minutes.
:blah :blah thats right, Phil, keep chasing that record, and playing your '95,'96 team lots of minutes
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Re: Mavs evoke comparisons with all-time greats
no dirk no duncan who wins?
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Re: Mavs evoke comparisons with all-time greats
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Originally Posted by ducks
no dirk no duncan who wins?
good question, it depends I guess on what changes the coaches would make. But my guess would be the Suns :blah
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Re: Mavs evoke comparisons with all-time greats
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Originally Posted by Mavs are Champs
:blah :blah thats right, Phil, keep chasing that record, and playing your '95,'96 team lots of minutes
Yeah, I can really see how the Mavs compare with a team led by a player who had already won three championships and will probably be remembered as the greatest player of the century.
:rolleyes
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Re: Mavs evoke comparisons with all-time greats
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Originally Posted by exstatic
Weren't the Pistons on a 70+ win pace about this time last year?
yea, but those Pistons werent as deep as these Mavs, and didnt have NEAR the coaching that these Mavs had.
Avery>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Flip
to add to it, they played in a weak Eastern Conference. Put the Mavs in the East, and they would definitely win over 70 games.
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Re: Mavs evoke comparisons with all-time greats
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Originally Posted by ducks
no dirk no duncan who wins?
Mavs. Hands down.
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Re: Mavs evoke comparisons with all-time greats
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Originally Posted by ThomasGranger
Yeah, I can really see how the Mavs compare with a team led by a player who had already won three championships and will probably be remembered as the greatest player of the century.
:rolleyes
Yeah, If I am not mistaken, Championships can be won by a player and or team who has not previously won said championship. For instance it took Jordan, what, like 7 years. I am not saying Dirk is Jordan by any means of the imagination, however I do think he is a future hall of famer playing with a future hall of fame coach. the mavs arent bragging about all of this years success, but they are succeeding nevertheless. Its all about winning it this year!!
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Re: Mavs evoke comparisons with all-time greats
That's right, Avery, keep chasing that record . . . and keep playing those starters lots of minutes.
The Mavs are not playing their starters heavy minutes, unlike the Suns.
Put the Mavs in the East, and they would definitely win over 70 games.
Not true. If the Mavs were in the East their record would be about the same (One game above where it is now). The Mavs are beating teams the East at the same rate as those from the West (just over 80%).
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Re: Mavs evoke comparisons with all-time greats
If the Mavs can keep up the heavy minutes for the starters without injury, I will be amazed. The Suns do play their starters more, but not much more than the Mavs. Between the three teams, the spurs have more evenly distributed minutes and less overall for starters.
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Re: Mavs evoke comparisons with all-time greats
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Originally Posted by Dalhoop
That's right, Avery, keep chasing that record . . . and keep playing those starters lots of minutes.
The Mavs are not playing their starters heavy minutes, unlike the Suns.
Put the Mavs in the East, and they would definitely win over 70 games.
Not true. If the Mavs were in the East their record would be about the same (One game above where it is now). The Mavs are beating teams the East at the same rate as those from the West (just over 80%).
You must be retarded or something.
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Re: Mavs evoke comparisons with all-time greats
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Originally Posted by ThomasGranger
Yeah, I can really see how the Mavs compare with a team led by a player who had already won three championships and will probably be remembered as the greatest player of the century.
:rolleyes
Duncan is insanely good, but of the century? I think it's a bit early to say. There's a player in the league right now with the potential to eclipse him, and he's wearing a Cavs jersey.
But even if LeBron doesn't pan out to be a top 5 player all-time, there are so many potentially great players every decade. I have no doubt that Duncan will be remembered as ONE of the best players in NBA history, but he's not on a "century best" level yet, especially considering one of his titles came in the 90s.
Just trying to keep it real. :donkey
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Re: Mavs evoke comparisons with all-time greats
I don't think 36 minutes a game is playing super high minutes. Yes, higher than what the spurs starters are playing, but it's not like he's got them out there for 40+ minutes each.
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Re: Mavs evoke comparisons with all-time greats
I get confused: Are we living in the Era of Steve Nash Total Dominance of the Universe or the Era of Dallas Mavericks Total Dominance of the Universe?
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Re: Mavs evoke comparisons with all-time greats
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Originally Posted by Cry Havoc
Duncan is insanely good, but of the century? I think it's a bit early to say. There's a player in the league right now with the potential to eclipse him, and he's wearing a Cavs jersey.
If you look a little more closely you might notice that my post was a response to the Mavs/Bulls comparison, not Mavs/Spurs. I was alluding to Jordan, not Duncan.
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Re: Mavs evoke comparisons with all-time greats
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cry Havoc
Duncan is insanely good, but of the century? I think it's a bit early to say. There's a player in the league right now with the potential to eclipse him, and he's wearing a Cavs jersey.
But even if LeBron doesn't pan out to be a top 5 player all-time, there are so many potentially great players every decade. I have no doubt that Duncan will be remembered as ONE of the best players in NBA history, but he's not on a "century best" level yet, especially considering one of his titles came in the 90s.
Just trying to keep it real. :donkey
i think he was talking about Jordan and the Bulls. at the time of the 96 season, he had won 3 rings.
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Re: Mavs evoke comparisons with all-time greats
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Originally Posted by pking
I don't think 36 minutes a game is playing super high minutes. Yes, higher than what the spurs starters are playing, but it's not like he's got them out there for 40+ minutes each.
True, the Mavs starters aren't putting in the sort of minutes the Suns starters are, but I don't see the point in continuing to play Josh, Dirk, and Terry each 35+ minutes on average when nobody in the league is even close to catching the Mavs at this point.
Last night is a great example: Josh = 42 min, Dirk = 37, Terry = 41.
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Re: Mavs evoke comparisons with all-time greats
I see where youre coming from but I don't necessarily agree with your logic. I think it's too early to say 'OK I'll sit my good players and it doesn't matter if we win tonight or not'
Terry doesn't typically play that many minutes, but he was amazing last night...14 or 15 assists and he couldn't miss. JHo's 25...:lol 37 minutes in a tight game like that for Dirk is not that bad, IMO.
Orlando was tough last night, man. We didn't pull away until the last 1:30. They could've easily won the game.
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Re: Mavs evoke comparisons with all-time greats
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Originally Posted by pking
I don't think 36 minutes a game is playing super high minutes. Yes, higher than what the spurs starters are playing, but it's not like he's got them out there for 40+ minutes each.
3 or 5 extra minutes every game over the season add up. Since the most common injury for an NBA player is caused by overuse, well guess what? Injuries do not have to be as obvious as a dislocated shoulder to blow a shot at the title. Pummeling a team you have a double digit lead on by keeping your starters playing the majority of a 4th quarter is just stupid, the mental edge it gives the winning team is not worth the risk of injury.
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Re: Mavs evoke comparisons with all-time greats
TD is a Career 37.6 MPG guy. He played 39.3 MPG when they won it all in '99 and '03. The minutes have been down the past couple of years, yes..but I really think you guys trying to act like 36-37 minutes per game is over the top is just sort of reaching.
I'm not one of the delusional Mavs fans that think it's an easy road to the trophy for the Mavs this year. They're having a great regular season so far.
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Re: Mavs evoke comparisons with all-time greats
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Originally Posted by bonesinaz
Since the most common injury for an NBA player is caused by overuse...
tell that to Xylus. he thinks that injuries are not related to fatigue on the court.
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Re: Mavs evoke comparisons with all-time greats
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Originally Posted by pking
TD is a Career 37.6 MPG guy. He played 39.3 MPG when they won it all in '99 and '03. The minutes have been down the past couple of years, yes..but I really think you guys trying to act like 36-37 minutes per game is over the top is just sort of reaching.
Right, but one of the reasons TD has such a high career avg. in min/per game is that, unlike most rookies, he was expected to start making major contributions right away and did not gradually work his way into the starting rotation during his first few years.
And yes, TD put in lots of minutes during those championship runs, but that may also be part of the reason the Spurs did not repeat in 2000 and 2004 (not the only factor, of course, but probably part of the equation).
I'm not trying to take anything away from the Mavs, but Avery's judgment seems dubious on this. I guess we'll see for sure come June.
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Re: Mavs evoke comparisons with all-time greats
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Originally Posted by ThomasGranger
If you look a little more closely you might notice that my post was a response to the Mavs/Bulls comparison, not Mavs/Spurs. I was alluding to Jordan, not Duncan.
Ooooooh. That's why I didn't understand the post.
*goes off to sulk in a corner*
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Re: Mavs evoke comparisons with all-time greats
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Originally Posted by stretch
to add to it, they played in a weak Eastern Conference. Put the Mavs in the East, and they would definitely win over 70 games.
So would San Antonio and Phoenix...
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Re: Mavs evoke comparisons with all-time greats
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Originally Posted by J.T.
So would San Antonio and Phoenix...
I agree with that, but Spurs < Mavs > Suns. I think the point is the Mavs have a hell of a pace going in the western conference, better than the spurs and the suns right now. Comparing that to Detroit, who did the same thing last year is apples and oranges.
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Re: Mavs evoke comparisons with all-time greats
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Originally Posted by J.T.
So would San Antonio and Phoenix...
not so sure about that. San Antonio's record vs the East is 17-8. they would be the #1 seed but they wouldnt win 70 games cmon now
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Re: Mavs evoke comparisons with all-time greats
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Originally Posted by exstatic
Weren't the Pistons on a 70+ win pace about this time last year?
Yes, and most people were ready to crown them NBA champs last year, too.
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Re: Mavs evoke comparisons with all-time greats
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Originally Posted by CPIM
Ducks!! Get real, everybody has a hole in order to survive.
:lol I had to read that twice to make sure I was seeing it correctly!
The Mavs are playing like they want to be the champs, and they are certainly deep enough and well-coached enough.
But...somewhere deep inside they still fear the Spurs. You can see it when they go against each other. A Spurs-Mavs series will be epic if these two get to meet.
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Re: Mavs evoke comparisons with all-time greats
If you want to crown their asses, go ahead and crown their asses.
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Re: Mavs evoke comparisons with all-time greats
I don't know...
well, okay, I know the mavs are a great team and if I had to put money on any one team to win it all RIGHT NOW, I would have to pick the mavs. BUT, with that said, for some reason, I can't picture them as an "all-time great" team...the title just doesn't seem to fit. And even IF they do earn that title someday, I think I'd see them as a "manufactured" all-time great team or a Pseudo-all time great as opposed to a "pure" all-time great team (like Celtics, Magic and Company's [a great "company" at that] Lakers, or MJ's Bulls). I don't know...maybe it's because those other teams have won a championship at least and it's hard to justify this talk just yet!??!
haha...but seriously...besides that, I think it has a lot to do with Mark Cuban...geez...I hate that guy. That guy just cheapens everything about the Mavs a bit for me. Yeah, I think that's it.
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Re: Mavs evoke comparisons with all-time greats
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Originally Posted by J.T.
So would San Antonio and Phoenix...
Phoenix definitely. I would normally say SA too, but the way they have played this year, im not too sure if they would hit 70.
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Re: Mavs evoke comparisons with all-time greats
spurs fans who talk about mavs starters playing heavy minutes should do some research. i already posted the spurs' and mavs' starter minutes along with the next 2-3 guys off the bench...if you found this out before talking about how the mavs are playing heavy minutes you'd see that it's basically a wash when compared to the spurs.
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Re: Mavs evoke comparisons with all-time greats
they are all-time great at choking and will prove it this playoffs.
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Re: Mavs evoke comparisons with all-time greats
crown em, crown those motherfuckers
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Re: Mavs evoke comparisons with all-time greats
Like many have said, if their was a trophy for the rugulor season no doubt the Mavs would have it, they are a great team with good leaders (except Dirk) and great coaching. We shall see if that equates to a championship
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Re: Mavs evoke comparisons with all-time greats
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Originally Posted by Kori Ellis
"3 RINGS - YOU HAVE ZERO" :lol
:owned :owned :owned
That's right Kori!!!
You tell them!!!!!
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DISCLAIMER:
The above comment is a paraphrased quote by Kori Ellis
Kori Ellis should not be held responsible for Taco taking her quote out of context. :wakeup
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Re: Mavs evoke comparisons with all-time greats
Pussy.
Should have left out the disclaimer.
:lol
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Re: Mavs evoke comparisons with all-time greats
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Originally Posted by ShoogarBear
Pussy.
Should have left out the disclaimer.
:lol
shit no!!
she would have kicked my ass!!!!:lol
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Re: Mavs evoke comparisons with all-time greats
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Originally Posted by stretch
yea, but those Pistons werent as deep as these Mavs, and didnt have NEAR the coaching that these Mavs had.
Avery>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Flip
to add to it, they played in a weak Eastern Conference. Put the Mavs in the East, and they would definitely win over 70 games.
True but they were also 47-9 at one point last year and spanked us twice during the season both at home and on the road. They just totally fell apart come playoff time.
