ESPN Top 10 Centers

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Originally Posted by lefty

Why are u talking about Bird?? He wasn't a center :dizzy

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Sorry about being off topic, but some brilliant basketball analyst mentioned that a big man with no post game (or at least a post game as "weak" as Robinson) can never lead his team to a ring.
Bird was brought up to counter this ridiculous claim. I could have brought up Wes Unseld or Willis Reed, I suppose.

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Originally Posted by ambchang

Sorry about being off topic, but some brilliant basketball analyst mentioned that a big man with no post game (or at least a post game as "weak" as Robinson) can never lead his team to a ring.

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Of course the same genius that brought up Larry Bird completely forgot he had one of the best low post scorers of his era on the same team.

And I have no idea why you even brought up Barkley either. A 6'5 forward is NOT a big man :lol

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Originally Posted by hitmanyr2k

Of course the same genius that brought up Larry Bird completely forgot he had one of the best low post scorers of his era on the same team.

And I have no idea why you even brought up Barkley either. A 6'5 forward is NOT a big man :lol

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I didn't forget McHale was on the team, because that was a direct response to your following quote

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Originally Posted by hitmanyr2k

You can list accomplishments until you're blue in the face. Yeah, D-Rob did all that but not once did he lead his team to a title. bobbyjoe is absolutely correct in saying that Robinson is another version of Kevin Garnett. Another jumpshooting 7 footer. He can get you all the numbers in the world but he wasn't going to deliver a championship with his kind of game. The guy had NO go-to moves when games got tight. I still question how in the hell he never developed that aspect of his game in all those years. Built like a brickhouse and no back-to-the-basket game.

What do Shaq, Hakeem, and Duncan all have in common? Strong post games and rings. They could dominate the paint, wear down defenses, and get a high percentage shot for themselves or their teammates any time they wanted. D-Rob (before Duncan), Garnett, Karl Malone and the rest of those jumpshooting big men have nothing because all they had was a jumpshot to rely on when things got tough. And when pressure time came the basket got smaller for those kind of players.

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So are you saying it was McHale who carried those Celtics team to the 3 rings? Or are you going to say that Bird had a post up game. Afterall, YOU were the one who also said

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Originally Posted by hitmanyr2k

So forgive me if I don't cry for David Robinson and his "lack of" supporting cast.

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So why is Bird's supporting cast (ie McHale) all of a sudden important now? It doesn't matter. Either Mchale lead the Celtics to the 3 championships, or a supporting cast matter. It's one or the other.
And Barkley was a big man, he was 6'5", but he was 260 lbs, and built as one of the most physically unique PF in the league. Doesn't matter he wasn't tall enough, he had a fantastic back to basket game, and rebounds like nobody's business. He is as big as they come.
Weren't you telling me something about Robinson's work ethic?

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Originally Posted by ambchang

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Originally Posted by Bob Lanier

I guess Dirk Nowitzki has a better post-up game than Bird, too.

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didn't watch Dirk since 2004?

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So, since the 2003-2004 season Dirk has shot 2188 free throw attempts in 297 games, for an average of 7.37 FTAs per game.

Tim Duncan has shot 2016 FTAs in 278 games over the same period, for an average of 7.25 FTAs per game.

Is Dirk Nowitzki simply more of a threat from the low post than Duncan is, or are you willing to accept that jumpshooting and slashing big men (like David Robinson) are capable of drawing fouls as capably as post-up players who have dependable go-to moves?

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Originally Posted by Bob Lanier

So, since the 2003-2004 season Dirk has shot 2188 free throw attempts in 297 games, for an average of 7.37 FTAs per game.

Tim Duncan has shot 2016 FTAs in 278 games over the same period, for an average of 7.25 FTAs per game.

Is Dirk Nowitzki simply more of a threat from the low post than Duncan is, or are you willing to accept that jumpshooting and slashing big men (like David Robinson) are capable of drawing fouls as capably as post-up players who have dependable go-to moves?

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I can do that or I can look at how Dirk shoots 0.43 FTs per FGA, vs. 0.46 for Duncan during the same period. Doesn't sound much, except in a game where the star player shoots 15 - 20 shots, it amounts to 25 to 30 FTAs a season.
Afterall, it's hard to get FTa without shooting.

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Originally Posted by Bob Lanier

So, since the 2003-2004 season Dirk has shot 2188 free throw attempts in 297 games, for an average of 7.37 FTAs per game.

Tim Duncan has shot 2016 FTAs in 278 games over the same period, for an average of 7.25 FTAs per game.

Is Dirk Nowitzki simply more of a threat from the low post than Duncan is, or are you willing to accept that jumpshooting and slashing big men (like David Robinson) are capable of drawing fouls as capably as post-up players who have dependable go-to moves?

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Dirk plays with his back to the hoop about as often as David drove in from outside the 3 point line. Robinson was a complete player. He had a jumpshot, and play with his back to the hoop as well. But I'm not delusional enough to think he could slash like Dirk, but he was MUCH more of a post presence.