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The spurs will be drafting at 28 this year right? Do you think nichols could fall that far? I'm a big SU fan and i've watched this kid play all year- good size, athletic ability, great range, and active on the defensive end (even though Boheim plays the 2-3 zone)... reminds me of Josh Howard comming out of Wake a few years ago.
he only gets 5.5 rebounds per game i believe but, that could change in the pros- could be our athletic 3 maybe?
Im hoping Hansborough falls that far, but its probably only a pipe dream. And with how deep the draft is this year I do think he could slip. Is he a senior?
THe Spurs picking at 28 is not set in stone. The picks will be in place after the season is over.
Yeah but it will probably be around there
Hansborough <= Luis ScolaQuote:
Originally Posted by mardigan
They both have equal intensity, good post games, and are not quite athletic enough for the position.
Hansborough or this guy? Tyler is a soph, not sure of this guy. I think he may stay at Chapel Hill for another season, but not if he has a big tourney.
No not hansborough. I am a huge fan of his, and while he might not be great in the pros, he will be a Nick Collison type of player. He probably should go back one more year but I dont think he will
Nichols could probably be had in the second round. The main knock on him is his reliance on the long-range jumper. He's not particularly athletic, has no post game, and is a sub-par rebounder. I think he leaves something to be desired as the long 3/small ball 4 of the future.
as someone that has watched him play for 4 years i disagree about your assesment of his athleticism but ill agree that he relies on his 3 quite a bit, the thing is that he has a good medium range shot...and even if he isnt much of a dribble driver, we certainly have enough of those
You're right that I've only seen him play a handful of games, but I do trust scouts when they talk about how his abilities translate to the NBA for the most part.Quote:
Originally Posted by RobinsontoDuncan
Disagree with your last statement. The weakness of this team is that it relies on too many "shooters" and doesn't have enough "scorers". So when the shots aren't falling, the Spurs only have Tim, Tony, and Manu that they can absolutely rely on to create their own offense and draw contact.
Don't get me wrong, I like Nichols as a scorer. But he'll need to do more to be the answer for the Spurs at the 3 spot.
The long, athletic 3 of the future is one of these guys....
Jeff Green
Al Thornton
Corey Brewer
Nicolas Batum
Luc Richard Mbah a Moute
If the Spurs can't snag one of those guys (b/c they go too high or don't come out) they should settle for best player available.
If they can't get one of the above-mentioned, I hope they snag Rudy Fernandez or Nick Fazekas.
Nichols should be available in the early 2nd round. So... the Milwaukee pick.
Hansbrough... I'd love on this team. Even as a career back-up, he's tough as hell and will permanently battle for you. I can't see him staying in unless he'll go earlier.
I truly hope the Spurs can trade up for Jeff Green or maybe Corey Brewer, if he's around, but they'll likely be lottery picks.
I'm not thrilled with Fazekas. Rudy Fernandez would be awesome.
The thing is... trading up in this draft will be easier than in previous years, especially using Scola. Scola only has one more year on his contract (I think), but more importantly, as it's a deep draft teams will still expect to find good talent late in the draft. Last year the talent was practically gone by the time the lottery was up and even then those players sucked. Might have been the worst draft ever. This year, #28 plus the #35 (wherever Milwaukee is) could move us up at least to the early #20s at least.
*crosses fingers*
One thing i will say about Nichols as far as driving to the basket goes, when he gets the ball outside, he is instantly double teamed, so he often shoots jump shots over two players, or takes a shot off a screen (by the way, this kid makes some amazing shots off screens, and has a very, very quick release) in San Antonio he wouldn't be double teamed ever, so his quickness to the basket and his dribble will be much easier to evaluate in the pros.
Go Cuse! They just spanked UConn in the Big East tourney. It was fun to watch that 2nd half.Quote:
Originally Posted by RobinsontoDuncan
A fellow SU fan?
My daughter is going to college there now, and most of my family went there as well
(im slightly torn this year as Uva is having quite a good season by our standards)
You have a problem with the most versatile offensive forward in the draft? I know he's not a great athlete, but he's a smart player that can score from anywhere on the court. Not saying he's Dirk Nowitzki, but he's not Matt Bonner either.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Body
Well, I'd put Fazekas closer to Matt Bonner than Dirk Nowitzki in that spectrum. And saying he's "the most versatile offensive forward" in the draft is just silly. The last I saw, Kevin Durant was a forward, as was Julian Wright, as was... I'm not down on Fazekas, but he's not what we need. He doesn't solve any problems and is basically Matt Bonner++. We don't need Matt Bonner anything. We have Matt Bonner already. If we manage to find him with the Milwaukee pick, okay, but with that #28 there should be guys around I'd much rather have. DX has Brandon Rush there right now. He'd be a far better pick.
I think Hansborough is a lottery pick.
Yeah, I'm a big Cuse fan. I didn't go to college there though, but I lived in Syracuse for 5 years (back in the 70's) and it was the only game in town. I used to go watch them at old Manley Field House with my dad. I saw them win the national championship (beating UT & Kansas in final 4) down in N'awlins a few years ago which was cool.Quote:
Originally Posted by RobinsontoDuncan
Yes I said "most versatile offensive forward". Durant has a great outside game, but he doesn't have the muscle or moves to go inside (yet). Wright is more of an inside guy and though his 12-15 footer is reliable, he has no 3pt shot. So yes, I think Fazekas has the most developed offensive game of any forward.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Body
His inside skills and rebounding have really improved. I'm not saying he's a "need" either, but if the Spurs can't get what they really want, "settling" for this guy isn't that bad.
And the talent gap between Bonner & Nowitzki is substantial....saying that he's closer to Bonner than Nowitzki isn't saying much. I'll say he's closer to Nowitzki than he is to Bonner....how much closer is really the question.
Matt Bonner ++ you say? Try if he was on the Spurs roster right now, he'd be starting beside Duncan. Fazekas is really good. If he falls as far as #28, he's going to be a Josh Howard level steal (another Senior, pushed down on the basis of "upside").Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Body
I will admit Brandon Rush would be potentially useful at the SF spot. Same with Demitris Nichols. Neither, however is currently a stopper a la Bruce. Rush does have the athletic gifts to become one.
As I have previously suggested on this board, I expect Pheonix's later picks to be for sale. If we could arrange to pick up 29, we could get both Rush and Fazekas ... I would like that.
As far as discussions about trading up for Fernandez, I wouldn't mind, except he is really at a position that we are overloaded at already; also, it is very likely he would not be able to contribute for at least another year or two. He is currently Livingston thin - 6'6" and 172 lbs last I heard.
As a Philosphy in a salary cap limited league (what the NBA has effectively become), the teams that are contenders are usually the ones with the most unfair contracts (in the teams favor). In NBA terms, these are FA steals, Ultra Super Stars who are worth more than a Max contract (eg. Duncan), and productive Rookie contracts (eg. Josh Howard for last year, this year, and next year). The Spurs currently had/have advantages through Duncan, Bowen (who restructured for the Spurs advantage), and Finley (who signed for much less than he would have gotten elsewhere). Finley and Bowen are getting to the point where they are no longer underpaid. We need to find further financial advantage or fall back to the pack; I think the best source would be a couple of productive rookie contracts. This draft offers significant hope of getting such productive players in the 25 to 35 range...
All the mocks I have seen have Hansborough going in the late teens to early 20s. But I guess it all depends on who comes out and who staysQuote:
Originally Posted by aaronstampler
Very good synopsis overall. I wouldn't trade up to get Rudy Fernandez because the Spurs have no immediate need there right now, but if he fell to the Spurs I think he'd be hard to pass up. Yes he is very thin, but I see alot of "Manu" in him. I also think that the Spurs' SG situation will get thin very soon, with Fin and Barry only on the books for one more season....plus Manu's age and hard style of play. Again, I wouldn't trade up to get him, but I think he'd be a steal at 28. If the Spurs could get him and Fazekas it would make for a very good draft, despite the inability to get a SF.Quote:
Originally Posted by pad300
I still maintain however....SF is the primary goal.
I'm going with Georgetown and either Jeff Green or (Oh GOD I hope) Roy Hibbert.
Sadly, we'll probably be about 5-8 picks too late with either our own or Milwaukee's pick to be in play for the players we want. Green will be gone before 28 and Fazekas/other will be gone before 35. A lot will depend on hang on trading up. I could see the 28 and 35 packaged or the 28 plus Scola. Or even, I suppose, 35 plus Scola to get into the early 20s.
I don't think Phoenix would sell us a draft pick. If they did, they might demand we take Marcus Banks, which wouldn't happen.
I don't see how anyone better than Fazekas will be available, but if Fernandez is still there, you have to grab him and run. Unfortunately we may not get much done unless we can move up. Otherwise it's time to pull Demetrius Nichols or the like, who isn't likely the answer.
You're saying a #28 pick isn't going to be all that great for us?
if anyone could find value there it's sam presti...my question is will the spurs FO allow him to scout domestic talent instead of European talent, as i believe we have held off on American players in order to avoid paying them
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Body
Buying Pheonix's draft pick - we should try in my opinion. The worst that can happen is they ask us to take Bank's deal (or somebody else), at which point we can say no. They can't make us take a deal we don't want...
Presti's talents are highly overrated.Quote:
Originally Posted by RobinsontoDuncan
So who is available that could do better?
I think Derrick Byars > Demetris Nichols.
And, while he's not nearly as long, Alando Tucker might be a better fit for the Spurs than either of those.
who is alando tucker?
Yikes...is that sarcasm?Quote:
Originally Posted by RobinsontoDuncan
Tucker plays for the Badgers and puts up great numbers. He's a freak athletically and sound defensively. Unfortunately his outside game leaves something to be desired...as does his size (6'5 210). I look at him as a Desmond Mason-type player in the pros, but he's aggressive and a hard worker....it wouldn't shock me if he turns out to be more Josh Howard than Mason.
Two reasons why I think they might go domestic this year:Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirties Robbed Me
1. They realized that they were missing out on legitimate American (college) prospects because of their lack of scouting in those areas, so they hired a scout to look specifically in that direction. I don't konw how much they will lean to those college players, but at least they'll have more knowledge about them come draft time.
2. In the past few years there hasn't been a need for an immediate contributor / primary bench player. Though the Spurs should still have most of their roster spots spoken for, the players who occupy those spots are aging rapidly and/or have expiring contracts after next season (Bowen, Horry, Finley, Barry, Oberto, Elson). Barry will be a valuable trade chip, Finley might opt out, and Horry might retire.
Point is, there are some legitimate needs for some help in the near future and with only $5M to play with in FA, I think the Spurs should/will look to fill those needs with draft prospects that will not be stashed overseas for a number of years.
3. American players generally take less time to transition to the NBA since they're not used to a different style of play.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Body
Not sure I agree with this. Both leagues primarily use zone defenses, have closer 3pt lines, and are similar talent-wise. I also think that "exposure" to the NBA style of games has truly gone global. I would say your statement rang true a few years ago, but now I'm not so sure.
NCAAs use a lot of zone, but the reliance on athleticism is something foreign players take a while to get used to, if they ever do. There's a real American style of play. It takes a while for any player to transition, unless they're supremely talented. Maybe I'm putting too much stock into it. A Fabricio Oberto would struggle in the NBA as much as Ivan Radenovic might.
that's not right. the 172 lbs are still from the 2005 pre draft camp, then Rudy's weight was in fact 172.Quote:
Originally Posted by pad300
in the past 1 1/2 year he has bulked up a bit and is currently listed at 186 lbs.
still a bit thin, but not as scary thin like in the past. I guess he has a frame that allows him to finally reach 200, so he might one day be close to Manu in this regard.
more of a concern might be, that he is "only" 6-6 in shoes (6-4 3/4 without) and has a far below average wingspan of 6-7 1/2.
this and the fact that his contract with Joventut is another year (a buyout of 1.5 million $ was reported) will cause a drop of Fernandez, maybe to the area when Spurs pick.
if he is there, it would be a no brainer IMO, even if he doesn't adress the major need at SF.
all who have seen him play (and maybe also have seen the young Manu play in Europe) will know what I mean. he is so close to Manu in almost every aspect of the game, that it would be almost an insult to Manu if the Spurs didn't draft Rudy (just kidding). drafting Rudy of cours would only make sense, if Spurs either bring him 2008 as successor of Brent, or trade Brent and bring Rudy after he somehow manages his buyout.
totally agree. especiall the type of player the Spurs need (no star power, just a decent role player) will be there.Quote:
Originally Posted by pad300
I'd dance a jig if we got Rudy. Or the flamenco. Whatever.
so true.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Body
when did he start as assistant director of scouting? 2002? 2003? whenever. wasn't that the moment when the Spurs drafting turned from great to somehow "subpar".
I'll go with the Jive, or perhaps the Samba. :danceclubQuote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Body
Wasn't D'Antoni involved in scouting Ginobili for the Spurs?
Puting "foreigners" in one category and trying to draw conclusions on them is kinda ignorant.
The same thing that is done with american players should be done with euros players : you should consider that some of them are like HS players, some are like sophomores and some are like college senior.
For the 07 draft, 3 "euros" are projected to be first rounders : Splitter, Fernandez and Bellinelli. All three have a lot of experience in great domestic leagues, in euroleague and even with their NT : they have played a lot in leagues light years better than the NCAA. You can't put them in the non nba ready project catergory like Darko if you have at least a basic knowledge of the european games.
he scouted for the Spurs 1999-2000. don't know if he was already responsible when Manu was drafted.Quote:
Originally Posted by steppy
but it would explain a lot. (also the back then great Giricek deal and maybe even Tony, who was picked a year after he left the Spurs)
He's not European, but Yi Jianlin fits that young, relatively inexperienced mold, as does Nicolas Batum. Yi is definitely in this draft, and Batum is a question. But I agree with your assessment that there are differing levels of talent overseas.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruno
What seperates Europeans from collegiate prospects is the ability for teams to draft them and let them stay in the other league without taking up cap space or roster space.....a luxury for teams with plenty of talent already on a team.
agree on all of the mentioned and that any of them would be a great addition, but doubt that we have a chance to get any of them in the draft.Quote:
Originally Posted by PHAT TONY
a player like Nichols or maybe Derrick Byars, who looked great this year, are more realistic and might also pan out as exactly what the Spurs need.
an interesting case for the Spurs to consider with the 2nd rounder is Reyshawn Terry. he was nowhere, last year he broke out and most saw a future 1st round pick if not a lottery pick in him, but this year he fell back to mediocrity. looking at physical tools and potential on defense and on offense, he would have it all. he might be a steal, if he slips to the mid or end 2nd round. would be nice for the Bulls pick we likely get.
Where does reyshawn terry go to school, and is there any reason for his less than steller play this year?
Saw Nick Young play a little last night. Pretty smooth player who came up big in a must-win game. He's a junior, so I'm not sure he'd come out if he's slated for a late first. Also is a SG, but he looks pretty nice.
Reyshawn Terry plays for UNC and his nickname is 'Radio' because he's not a very smart player. Nice physical tools, though.
If the Spurs had an open roster spot to put Reyshawn Terry on the Stephen Jackson plan, he just might be worth it. NBAdraft.net actually compares him to Jackson. But I wouldn't spend either the first rounder or the high second-rounder on him.
no, that would be to much of a risk. as I mentioned, he might be a good pick with the (unexpected) pick we will likely get from the Bulls (no.51 or lower)Quote:
Originally Posted by PHAT TONY
hes been playing pretty well in summer league, probably would have been a better choice than williams
Lot of time to play ball, but that's one of the reasons I was so miffed with our draft. Splitter was good, but the draft was too deep to take Marcus Williams at 33. There were too many good players still left who were head and shoulders better than him already.
i wonder if presti's sudden departure fucked the spurs over in the second round...yeah it pretty much did
The moves Seattle's been making lately indicates the brains may have been inside Presti's head, nowhere else.Quote:
Originally Posted by RobinsontoDuncan
sam's deals were not that hold
lewis wanted to do a sign and trade to get more money
magic wanted him
lewis said must do sign and trade then I sign with you if not so long
Getting the vast trade exception for Lewis was brilliant; forcing Orlando to do it was great. And don't forget the Ray Allen trade to bring in some pieces and Jeff Green, a talented guy to play off of Kevin Durant.Quote:
Originally Posted by ducks
A lesser GM would try to retain Allen and/or Lewis to play around Durant; Presti recognized the correct path was to jettison both of them, and he got the most he could out of each one.
I wonder if Presti told the Spurs to draft Marcus Williams as he walked out the door... and then had a laugh.
:lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Body