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Every time you say something about him, it get's locked or you're an idiot.
Dude is overrated. The Spurs would be much better with a forward that could rebound, score and dunk in that position.
One of the reason the Spurs are 10 games behind Dallas is because he can't stop any of the elite players anymore.
Saying the Spurs need a long forward is just a cheap way of saying Bruce needs to go.
WTF?
Everytime you post something, it turns into a vulgarity fest between a bunch of losers. If this thread doesn't go wild again, it will stay open.
Who is rating him that you think he's overrated?
Everyone knows he's a 35 year old defender who is struggling with his shot. But his defense is still a big part of what the Spurs do.
If he hits his open shots at a high percentage and plays as good of defense as he can play then he will be fine. If against Phoenix or Dallas he shots a mediocre or poor percentage and his defense isn't top notch for his standards -- then the Spurs will likely be in trouble vs the Western Elites. Then again the Big Three are most important in the playoffs offensively, and the team defense and rebounding are also extremely important. This includes whoever is in the frontcourt with Timmy in the big moments of the playoffs.
Sequ u are a troll
Bowen is the reason we don't get blown out, when the opposing team star gets hot.
http://media.graytvinc.com/images/Br...locks+Dirk.jpg
Bowen is the enforcer in the Spurs. Remember that block on Melo? :lol
without him and we are soft as tissue
Bowen shouldn't be taken for granted. He's a key piece, as far as importance, Bruce is the interchangeable 4th in addition to the big 3--for what he does in Spurs basketball, and the core system we have established. This thread is so stupid.
http://www.liv.ac.uk/%7Esdb/Safari-2...aby-baboon.jpgQuote:
Originally Posted by Kori Ellis
http://www.liv.ac.uk/%7Esdb/Safari-2...49-leopard.jpg
http://www.liv.ac.uk/%7Esdb/Safari-2...opard-yawn.jpg
http://www.liv.ac.uk/%7Esdb/Safari-2...st-sunrise.jpg
http://www.liv.ac.uk/%7Esdb/Safari-2...ebra-party.jpg
http://www.liv.ac.uk/%7Esdb/Safari-2...ions-mound.jpg
http://www.liv.ac.uk/%7Esdb/Safari-2...vet-monkey.jpg
I love Bruce,and I think he is a great Defender,but I think the question is:who will take his place from next year?
cause realisticly we are gonna need a SF eather to the starting lineup,or to play 24 mins P/game.Considering that Bowen will be 36 and His legs are not the same tham years before.
Is there any SF available this offseason(FA),or a SF prespect for this coming draft?
Nocioni? Delfino? Garcia? Artest?
Yeah I think the FO is anticipating the new leg-replacements for the next two years..
I'm gonna miss Bruce when he hangs it up in a couple years. I think Nocioni would be cool if we could ever get him in the offseason. Which is probably unlikely since apparently, he's restricted.
Bruce needs to be replaced yesterday. His stats have never been that great and now they are down even farther.
To beat the Suns and the Mavs, you are going to have to rebound and score because of their team offense. They don't have the one guy that you can stop and you'll win. You have to stop most of them. Honestly, 35 y/o Bowen can't stop any of them. Time to move on.
I'll reiterate from a previous post in another thread. For Bowen to stay on the court and truly be an asset to this team, he needs to hit to two shots in his arsenal (the corner 3 & 20ft elbow shot). The other elite teams are too good offensively and the rules give the offensive player too much advantage for Bowen to JUST be a defensive guy.
I'm not saying he has to slash to the basket or create contact, in fact I cringe everytime he puts the ball on the floor, but he needs to be "effective" on offense.
Not sure I predicted this would ever come out of my mouth, but with the way Finley is playing, I think he might be the better option or at least get more minutes in lieu of Bowen.
Oh shoot.. there are 2 Rs in overrated.. :lol
Bowen's long ball used to be really reliable.
I think in this past season, he's confused about picking when to spot up and just go long ball, or go off the dribble a little. Take a 20-footer. But I think it's Pop's fault not Bowen, for giving him extra hesitations to actually mix it up. It's like NOooo...Bruce is limited. DO NOT MIX UP HIS OFFENSIVE GAME TO THROW OFF DEFENDERS.
he's passed up an open three to take it in within 20 ft. or to blow an easy lay up. It's just plain cringeworthy. I think his affected jumper is for the same reason Finley had a problem. He was trying to decide what he should do, instead of just taking jumpshots. (Like Finley, man the guy yesterday knew what he damn wanted to do. Hope he keeps it up :tu)
Also Bruce never learned how to rebound. Which is one slight weakness to his "defensive" prowess, but he's old. Heh.
Bruce may be regarded by this league and the national media as a "defensive specialist", but the fact is that he had developed into a reliable 3pt threat for the Spurs and his offense has been needed for some time in order for this team to succeed. And at a time when his offensive production is most crucial (other teams improved, lessened defensive impact), he has been the most offensively inept in his career.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirties Robbed Me
I'm not saying he can't get out of this funk. In fact, for the Spurs' sake...that's what I'm rooting for.
Delfino is more PG/SGQuote:
Originally Posted by nkdlunch
Nocioni or Garcia would be nice,but We comeback to the money issues.
Artest,Hell NO!
what about a good Defender SF Draft pick?
any good ones this year?(I donīt know much of NCAA college BB)
what in recent history makes you think that the spurs will draft some one out of college?Quote:
Originally Posted by ArgSpursFan
The Spurs hired George Felton in the off-season to focus on college talent evaluation (Director of College Player Personnel) Things might change.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kermit
LOCK this IDIOT. :stirpot:Quote:
Originally Posted by SequSpur
I think Sequ has a point. Bruce Bowen has been "struggling with his shot" for longer than in years past.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kori Ellis
He's on a knife edge in my mind. Pop has to seriously weigh whether his shot will recover because right now he's hurting the team in spots. I think Pop has realized this somewhat and has cut down his minutes. If Bowen isn't hitting from long range then he can definitely be a liability regardless of his defense.
Lets hope this isn't the year Bowen doesn't turn that corner because he seems close to it.
I do agree with this. His time in the Playoffs vs Suns or Mavs..should be limited. But it won't be because Pop will be stubborn adjustments.Quote:
Originally Posted by SequSpur
Yeah that's been talked about in other threads. Many think it's related to his back issues (which I hope are getting better). He definitely has to hit his 3's.Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoHandJam
I love Bruce, but I'm surprised the Spurs haven't managed to get a viable back-up/future replacement for him yet. They're probably two years behind on that one.
True. Since the summer of 2004, most of us here having been talking about them getting someone to groom behind him. Hopefully it's a major priority this summer.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Body
and I call myself a hater? the original thread starter is a moron!
A properly medicated Ron Artest?
So is Bruce really hurting now with his back? He hasn't sat a game out yet has he?
Bruce has already lost a step or 2 on defense. I was at the game in SA when we played LA before the rodeo roadtrip. I realize Kobe is one of the best offensive players in the league, but that was the worst I've ever seen Bruce play him. He was sorta keeping up with him, but he wasn't contesting any of his shots. He still has some great defensive games, but he's not the lock-down defender that he once was. His offense is horrible this season, and I believe that's because he has to work even harder on defense to keep up, so he lost whatever little shooting touch it was that he had in seasons before. I would not be suprised if he comes off the bench next year and plays significantly fewer minutes. It's been said before, and I believe it, that defense can be taught to almost anyone. It just takes someone without an ego who understands that role and who isn't concerned about getting touches on offense. If Elson improves his interior defense, that would allow us to break in someone new as a perimeter defender so Duncan and Elson could erase any mistakes made outside.
i used to (before the trade deadline, when I really wanted maggette) be huge bowen detractor. but he is starting to grow on me, out on the floor, he never does anything wrong, he hustles, can still hit the open three, and works well on a team where the 3 stars all need to control the ball for a good portion of the shot clock to do their thing.
basically, i didn't like him when i thought our 3 stars needed more help to win it all, and he was the weakest link. now, gino and duncan are playing much better and bowen once again seems more than adequate as a role player.
1.- This made me laugh.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fabbs
2.- I'm not sure I share your confindence in modern pharmacology.
3.- You do have a point.
That's what they are trying to do with White.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Body
White as all the physical tools (length and quickness) to be a great defender in the league.
shouldn't the grooming process be faster for White?
we talking one more season at max for Bowen.
I was pretty hyped when White fell to them, but have soured. I know they're trying hard to get a Bowen replacement, but was amazed they didn't get anything done last summer. Maybe I'm guilty of looking at all the other pretty, shiny things lying around, but I'd be surprised White ever sees much time as a Spur.
:dramaqueeQuote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Body
How many times have you seen him play?
Bruce Bowen = Dirty & Overrated
No such thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fabbs
Quote:
Originally Posted by lakers4life
How arew the Lakers doing these days?Quote:
Originally Posted by LAKERS4LIFE
I'd love Nocioni to become a Spur (for obvious reasons) but he needs to learn D. He misses to many rotations (I think this is the reason he lost his starting job).
On the positive, he has no problem sacrificing his body. He takes more charges than Manu :)
I'd like to keep White through training camp, especially after reading the draft thread where no one said immediate help could be found at #28. He's shown signs of being a good, versatile perimeter defender. His offense was always completely overrated because of his dunking.
Bowen was/is an integral part of our championship runs. I hope he retires a Spur and we retire his number.
There's somebody that Bruce cannot guard-----Father Time. Within the next two years, Bruce might have to settle for a role similar to Lindsey Hunter's at Detroit, minus the prohibited drugs.
bull fucking shit.Quote:
He's on a knife edge in my mind. Pop has to seriously weigh whether his shot will recover because right now he's hurting the team in spots. I think Pop has realized this somewhat and has cut down his minutes. If Bowen isn't hitting from long range then he can definitely be a liability regardless of his defense.
There was this same BS talk back in 01 02 when he first came and it was just as much bull then too.
Even if Bowen's shots not falling, look at how he did last night when ON Martin.
martin scored the majority, or all of his points when someone else was guarding him.
So this Bowen sucks arguement is horseshit to the max.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruno
Do people not understand that the "Bowen replacement" and the "long 3/small ball 4" are two different players?
White can be the answer for the "Bowen replacement" - An athletic, defense-oriented player that can guard/play the 2 and 3 spot.
He is not, however, the answer as the Long 3/Small Ball 4.....a la Ryan Gomes, etc.
The Spurs should look for that player in the draft (Green, Thornton, Nichols, Dudley, Terry), though it will be interesting to see if any of them are available or worth the gamble.
Well, they can be the same player. If that player is a 6'9/6'10 small forward who is quick enough to guard smaller players, can step out on the perimeter and score, can rebound, and isn't afraid to go down low in the post in a small ball lineup.Quote:
Do people not understand that the "Bowen replacement" and the "long 3/small ball 4" are two different players?
But that player wouldn't be White - too short.
Overworked, overpenalized, overlooked, overachieving, overanxious, overattentive, overbearing, overly self-critical, overlytrusted, yeah, Bowen, I mean the dude is ssooo over.....Quote:
Originally Posted by SequSpur
Have I said that White was a "long 3/small ball 4" ?Quote:
Originally Posted by PHAT TONY
No sorry, I just clicked on your post to reference, then went a different direction.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruno
Don't you think hedo turkoglu was that 3 the spurs coveted long and do it all type but he messed up badly and spurs lost faith in him...then we have this scout who messed with nocioni drafting..at the time i thought firing him was excessive but now we can see how his error hampered us....
I'm sure we can find someone useful next year maybe a luke walton or a travis outlaw with a little chance..
But for now it's all for the play-off and championship and bruce or not bruce i feel good....
What player within the Spurs' $$ range/draft range has the ability to guard/play 3 positions on the floor? Sorry Kori, but I don't see many players with that ability.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kori Ellis
He's never been a lockdown defender on guys like Kobe or Dirk or McGrady (nobody is). Kobe has had some pretty big games on him in the past. What Bruce does is make him work hard enough to get his 35 points that they don't have the legs to take over in the last 5 minutes.Quote:
Originally Posted by HuskerinSA
Sequ is right in that aspect. Bruce is overrated if he get labeled as a lockdown perimeter guy. There is no such thing.
Actually your right. :clap Which pained me to say. The Kings kept getting switches on picks which allowed Martin to score off of other defenders...So, case in point, there really wasn't a reason for Bowen to be out on the floor.Quote:
Originally Posted by T Park
Your a loser.Quote:
Originally Posted by SequSpur
The thing that worries me about Bruce Bowen is his inability to run up and down the court with the high flying teams like the Mavs and Suns. Although defense is what the Spurs live and die by he wont be able to play defense with the Western conference elites
have you been a spurs fan for more than 3 days?Quote:
Originally Posted by Spursfan101
I totally disagree. Even at 35 years old, Bowen has more energy than most of his teammates. He's perpetual motion and he has no-nonsense work habits with tremendous discipline. Running up and down the court isn't a weakness yet and although Bruce isn't a high-flier, his feet never stop. If you can discipline yourself to focus on watching Bruce for a couple of minutes straight, you'll see for yourself.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spursfan101
Why does it pain you to say that.Quote:
Actually your right. Which pained me to say. The Kings kept getting switches on picks which allowed Martin to score off of other defenders...So, case in point, there really wasn't a reason for Bowen to be out on the floor
And K-State Spur is overrated if he get labeled as a lick-down rim-eater gay. There is no such thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by K-State Spur
Or is there a really stupid sounding ring to absolute statements made absolutely, K-State (not a spur)
nope...Quote:
Originally Posted by Big P
you're a loser
Quote:
Originally Posted by SequSpur
Moron
The sad thing is, you are a troll, and most don't even grasp that aspect.
No, you suck.Quote:
Originally Posted by T Park
Can you honestly look yourself in the mirror and say Bruce Bowen hasn't lost a step? Well, maybe. But...
I think it's safe to say that when Tony, Manu, and TD are kicking it out to him for a 3, I cringe a little bit.
how many 3 pointers Bruce Bowen made game 2 West Semi-Finals Spurs vs Lakers in 2003? :p:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kori Ellis
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big P
Sequ's mission accomplished. :clapQuote:
Originally Posted by SequSpur
lets hear sequspur, he is rigth!
finley should start instead of him, and play more of bowens minutes. manu should start too. that would be better for the spurs than the current scheme.
this is a thread that im started some months ago about bowen....
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/show...0&page=1&pp=26
this is a great analisys of wildbill2u
Quote:
TIMVP you obviously don't even look at all the things that go into these ratings on the site your wife and you picked as giving good comparison stats. Put your cursor on the headings and the items that go to make them up will pop up.
Go back and look up what the Help value is (rebounds, TOs assists, steals, etc.). It has nothing to do with offense. Productivity adds the players points to the HV. Efficiency Rating adds everything up.
It's not as easy to equate the value of a player based on a constantly changing interaction with other players as you seem to think the +/- figure indicates.
But the individual player's Help Value, Productivity and Efficiency ratings per 48 minutes measures solely his personal contributions per 48 minutes. Bowen's individual stats are crummy.
He plays good defense, but the game is changing to a more mobile and higher scoring game. Not many games nowadays have both teams in the 80s so a defensive player isn't as effective or easy to hide as he once was.
"Holding" some player to 25 points while scoring 2 puts a hell of a lot of pressure on the other players to take up the slack. Give TD 25 points, TP 20 and Manu 20, and you've still only got a total of 65 points so thirty or more points have to come from somewhere. With Bowen getting 35 minutes it isn't getting done.
Ha! Focus on the ballcarriers that are one on one with Bowen, they pass it off to someone else after a couple of dribbles.Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymous coward
LOOK AT IT!
That specific one-on-one moment when they get rattled.
Including Kobe.
You know the game, they'll pass off the ball almost every single time.
Only if you don't see it happen well then, let's talk about something else.
:rolleyesQuote:
Originally Posted by SequSpur
Sign Pippen, cut Bruce, right?
I do agree that we need someone younger and more offensively-proficient, and that has to come by next season.
The spurs are getting below ave. rebounding from bruce bowen and minimal offense from him compared to the middle pack of sfs in the nba. That is a fact. The spurs would be better off with someone else.
bruce bowen is a class guy but a fact is a fact
Sequ's bball knowledge is less than mine. And I started watching this sport four years ago.
bro... counter my take then instead of slappin your dumb ass drivel off the crack of my ass.Quote:
Originally Posted by smeagol
No need to do that.Quote:
Originally Posted by SequSpur
When Kori, Nikos, Solid D and others have already countered your take, you know your take is dumb.
Sequ, Bowen may be overrated in your book....not mine.....but he is still an intricate part of this year's team and teams past.
Yes he has lost a step (maybe 2) but he still regarded as one of or the best on the defender currently in the league.
I do agree with many who think we need to start looking for his successor. We had the a similar problem when finding a successor for Sean.
Bowen neutralized Vince Carter tonight. The only times Vince did much was when Bruce went to the bench and Finley was on him.
It doesn't really matter so much that Bruce scores...particularly if his defense limits the opponent's best scorer. When your defense helps your team hold the opponent under 40 points in the 1st halves of most games lately, why complain about Bruce's jumper? When your defense helps lead the NBA in points differential at over +8 per game, why complain about points contribution from Bruce Bowen?
BTW, by the time the first quarter ended, VC had 2 points and 4 TOs. Bruce Bowen had 3 points. Vinsanity scored 8 points while Bruce Bowen was on the floor tonight.
notice sequ and all the haters are quiet.
Shut down his buttfuck buddy Vince Carter.
Silence is golden...
http://encyclopedia.quickseek.com/im...ampionship.jpg
Out in front...where Bruce should be.
2 years ago... :rolleyesQuote:
Originally Posted by Solid D
How about going to the store and buying yourself a fresh loaf of bread also, two year old bread is overrated.
Didn't see the game broseph.. down here at the beach chillin..Quote:
Originally Posted by T Park
How many tickets did you sell last night?
http://buttonmashing.com/wp-content/...0a%20whirl.jpg
Had a great night on the Tango.
Don't own a tilt a whirl.
Tango rode 3 thousand 114 people. Thats about ohhh 12 grand.
So yeah, great night. Way up from the last year on the same day, Spurs win.
good times
Lets just put this on this page as well.Quote:
BTW, by the time the first quarter ended, VC had 2 points and 4 TOs. Bruce Bowen had 3 points. Vinsanity scored 8 points while Bruce Bowen was on the floor tonight
But yeah, according to twohandjam and all the others our perimiter defense stinks.
the nets blow.. wgaf.. spurs fans prem.. ej.. all over themselves beating lottery teams.. typical
So Vince Carter ain't that great anymore?
Another interesting development....
Have fun! I wish I was at the beach today. :fishingQuote:
Originally Posted by SequSpur
You are overrated.:devil
By whom? Himself?Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas_Ranger
Got damn.. 12K in one night? Shit.. that's a good biz. I saw that mofo at the rodeo and it was basically full all night... I thought you owned the tiltawhirl also?Quote:
Originally Posted by T Park
Man.. Corpus Christ Padre Island beaches have to much seaweed shit on them. :pctoss
OK, I agree he'll probably be replaced in the starting lineup next year, but what would you suggest the Spurs do this season about Bowen? Even though his 3pt % is down right now, he is still a threat to other teams. Defensively, he's slowed down no doubt about that, but he is still better than alot of players in this league. You can't find too many players that would deticate themselves defensively and try to improve every year. Too many of them are trying to slamdunk their way to the ESPN Highlight Show.Quote:
Originally Posted by SequSpur
Right now the most glaring problem that the Spurs face is staying within their game. In other words use their size and ram it down the Mavs and Suns throats!! NO MORE SMALL BALL !!!!!! :nope :nope
Isn't this like your second vacation in a month? WTF?
:lolQuote:
Originally Posted by ShoogarBear
Yeah, two weekends ago, we were skiing in Ruidoso, now we went to the beach... :D Pretty sweet.. but...
Tomorrow is work.. again!!! Got Damnit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rr2418
The Spurs need rebounding and if he could get his ass in gear and get 2 more a game, that would help out. Also, if he would limit his shots to wide open corner 3s, he might bring up his average.
Seeing Bruce getting 7+ attempts a game is a nightmare.
I go to New Orleans on Wednesday for the NCAA Tournament. I may taste some alcohol while I'm down there.
You didn't give it up for lent? BTW, alcohol is bad for your kidneys.. you should know that... :DQuote:
Originally Posted by ShoogarBear
Yeah, I admit I don't like Bowen taking it to the hole. His strength is the corner 3.Quote:
Originally Posted by SequSpur
This is 2007. I don't think we can cut and paste those 3s into the box score of any playoff games this year.Quote:
Originally Posted by milkyway21
On the other hand, how many other opposing coaches and their staff are ??"wondering"?? wtf is Pop and his staff "up to". :eyebrows
Bowen's defense was never what's in question. I think this season it's the other stuff that he's clearly regressed in that's really hurting the team. His lack of rebounding and scoring could be hidden, but this season when we need it the most it's really lacking. Combined with out lack of Center option (according to Pop), it's putting way too much pressure on Parker, Duncan, and Ginobili.
I think Bowen may be near the tail-end here. His defense is still pretty good, but I don't know how much longer he can continue to be a starter...