Whoever the next Spurs FA or draftee is...

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Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

Avery would love to be able to double team Tim with two big men in the playoffs.

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True. Good thing Elson averages more points and shoots for a higher percentage than Evans.

spurs could have earmarked the 2.5 million for scola and not sign oberta
but then horry and other bigs would have had to play more minutes
and would the spurs went over the luxcury tax additional 2.5 million beacuse they did not sign oberta?

should the spurs have earmarked the money they are giving to beno since he is worthless? why do you not bring that point up MR BODY!

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Originally Posted by timvp

Shooting 7% higher than last year with the Nuggets isn't progress? More points and rebounds per minute. More steal and more blocks.

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Wow, it's scary. Don't forget too that he averages more turnovers.

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Originally Posted by timvp

But then again, getting Spurs fan to prop a player not on the Spurs is like pulling teeth.

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:lmao
It's not like I said that Dirk sucks, it's Reggie frickin Evans : a player whose coach thinks that he isn't good enough to get playtime over Eduardo " no knees" Najera and Linas "brick man" Kleiza.

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Originally Posted by Bruno

Wow, it's scary. Don't forget too that he averages more turnovers.

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Elson is also averaging a career-high in turnovers. Links to where you've brought that up?

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Originally Posted by Bruno

:lmao
It's not like I said that Dirk sucks, it's Reggie frickin Evans : a player whose coach thinks that he isn't good enough to get playtime over Eduardo " no knees" Najera and Linas "brick man" Kleiza.

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It's easy to prop a superstar. But to get a Spurs fan to prop a role player on another team is difficult. When is the last time you gave props to a role player? Link?

If Reggie Evans was on the Spurs, you'd have him in your avatar wearing a Santa hat.

Don't lie. :santahat

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Originally Posted by timvp

Elson is also averaging a career-high in turnovers. Links to where you've brought that up?

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and it still less than Evans.

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Originally Posted by timvp

It's easy to prop a superstar. But to get a Spurs fan to prop a role player on another team is difficult. When is the last time you gave props to a role player? Link?

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I've given props to role players in almost all FA/trade thread when I've said that some role players could help Spurs.

If you want an example with a link :
http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthre...th#post1434756

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Originally Posted by timvp

If Reggie Evans was on the Spurs, you'd have him in your avatar wearing a Santa hat.

Don't lie. :santahat

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:lol
No, there is only one Beno (hopefully for the nba).

Pop wanted someone with a shot at staying on the floor and guarding Dirk. Elson certainly filled that bill potential-wise far better than Reggie.

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Originally Posted by picnroll

Pop wanted someone with a shot at staying on the floor and guarding Dirk. Elson certainly filled that bill potential-wise far better than Reggie.

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To me, Evans or Oberto is more the argument then Evans or Elson.
Elson may indeed end up contributing in 2007 playoffs. Fabs, rightly or not was given 2 seconds in last years Mavs fiasco.

timvp and i do not always agree, but he has scouted Evans thoroughly.
timvp says he can board, and the stats support it big time.

Now, since clearly defined role player is the topic, with Tim Duncan in, a large wide body that can board (Evans), is just what the Dr ordered.


As with Elson and for that matter Nazr 2005 (yes and even Rasho), another large body in on D greatly helps stifle the opponent. Since "Shots Altered" or as one poster put "SMTTAT" "Shot attempts made to think about twice" are not recorded, the value of another large mobile body cannot always be measured. Yes i know Nazr was not that mobile, but snicker all you want, he and for that matter Rasho (good rotater) made the D much more effective.
Fabs is clearly not altering shots or getting muscle boards. Position boards? Yes some.

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Originally Posted by timvp

Reggie Evans
18.6 Minutes
5.5 Points
7.6 Rebounds
.540 Field Goal Percentage

Francisco Elson
18.8 Minutes
5.1 Points
4.9 Rebounds
.534 Field Goal Percentage

So Elson plays more minutes but isn't even close to matching Evans production.

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Kori put up more stats than you and there were major differences. Evans averages more rebounds (but that's his specialty), but is .4 better in points and .06 better in field goal percentage. He's better at steals, but that gap is made up in the difference between their blocks (to Elson's favor). Evans also barely shoots over 50% from the line. Point being...his stats don't monumentally eclipse Elsons in any way.

Getting Evans would've also most likely prevented the Spurs from snagging Butler. And though we're not certain what he'll give the Spurs, having a 21yr old F/C with decent post skills and some legit potential isn't a bad thing. You have to take into account the "opportunity cost" of signing a guy like Evans, who is a rebounding specialist w/ little to no offensive game/potential, and what it would mean to this team long term.

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Originally Posted by timvp

True. Good thing Elson averages more points and shoots for a higher percentage than Evans.

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I didn't know Evans was such a good outside shooter.

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Originally Posted by Fabbs

To me, Evans or Oberto is more the argument then Evans or Elson.
Elson may indeed end up contributing in 2007 playoffs. Fabs, rightly or not was given 2 seconds in last years Mavs fiasco.

timvp and i do not always agree, but he has scouted Evans thoroughly.
timvp says he can board, and the stats support it big time.

Now, since clearly defined role player is the topic, with Tim Duncan in, a large wide body that can board (Evans), is just what the Dr ordered.


As with Elson and for that matter Nazr 2005 (yes and even Rasho), another large body in on D greatly helps stifle the opponent. Since "Shots Altered" or as one poster put "SMTTAT" "Shot attempts made to think about twice" are not recorded, the value of another large mobile body cannot always be measured. Yes i know Nazr was not that mobile, but snicker all you want, he and for that matter Rasho (good rotater) made the D much more effective.
Fabs is clearly not altering shots or getting muscle boards. Position boards? Yes some.

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Evans v. Oberto can't be the argument Fabbs. The Spurs didn't have the opportunity to sign Evans in lieu of Oberto, so that case doesn't hold. If the Spurs sign Evans last year, they don't sign Elson (and probably not Butler either)...it's that simple.

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Originally Posted by PHAT TONY

Evans v. Oberto can't be the argument Fabbs. The Spurs didn't have the opportunity to sign Evans in lieu of Oberto, so that case doesn't hold. If the Spurs sign Evans last year, they don't sign Elson (and probably not Butler either)...it's that simple.

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Then sign no one. In retro that was the better move.

Same exact scenario as the summer after the 2003 Championship. Karl Malone sold his soul to the Fakers, thus the Spurs knee jerk reacted and signed Rasho at 7 million per for 5 years. Now i am not a Rasho hater, but I'm sure most all of us agree that was a very bad signing. In hindsight should we have roughed it out in 2004 or signed someone else for much cheaper then Rasho, even if they were to do just what Rasho did for one year. I'm sure someone was available either in the summer of 2003 or before the trade deadline 2003-4 midseason. (Tim, Kori, everyone help me out here. Was there not someone out there who could have done what Rasho did 2004 playoffs? Even if just for one year.)

Post 2005 same exact scenario. In hindsight would we have been better off not signing anyone instead of signing Fabs for 3 years? So we go thru 2006 playoffs without Fabs. The way it came down, that is basically what we did anyways. Surely we could have picked up a "Fabs" clone for one year at 900K. Heck one year at 2-3 mil.

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Same exact scenario as the summer after the 2003 Championship. Karl Malone sold his soul to the Fakers, thus the Spurs knee jerk reacted and signed Rasho at 7 million per for 5 years

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clearly they matched Malone with Rasho.

What in the fuck....

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Originally Posted by T Park

clearly they matched Malone with Rasho.

What in the fuck....

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4 straight losses and afterwords the lingering albatross Rasho contract.
Yeah, that was worth it.
T_Park for Spurs GM.

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Originally Posted by Fabbs

Could we please have a clearly defined objective for said players role.

Beno Undies: He's the backup to TP. No wait, he isn't. It's
NVE: Thus Beno is benched. No wait, Beno is back. No he isn't, its
Jacque Vaugn. Okay at 900K this has been one the Spurs got the price right.

Fabs Oberto. He will be the 10-15 minute a game sub who will be primarily a very PT Center who can swing over to PF to spell Tim. No, he will be a starting center in spite of being unable to jump over a piece of paper. Yeah that will get us a title. No he will be a benchee. No, he will be back to starting center. Also, lets sign him for one year so we can work on Scola. No instead lets make it 3 years since Fabs can uh.....

Jackie Butler?? Millionaire NBA players who are signed in the summer should get one year plus to get in shape and learn the system. Yet we are battling Dallas etc for our playoff lives. Butler will help, right?


White: Don't even ask. Shuffle back n forth from NBDL league so he can watch Fins Horry and Bonner combine to go 1-22 in a blowout from the bench.
Yeah yeah yeah "He isn't ready". Sure, it would really hurt him to play a bit when the others were in contstant stink it up mode. Once again, his role is??

I'm not looking for 500 comments on who does or does not suck and why.
My point is clearly defined objective vs sandcastle then wave.

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holy ****, the spurs front office is a bunch of ****ing idiots. oh wait, the spurs are good and you're the idiot. stfu

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Originally Posted by Dave McNulla

holy ****, the spurs front office is a bunch of ****ing idiots. oh wait, the spurs are good and you're the idiot. stfu

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Championship is the idea. Often takes adjustments.
Ad-just-ments.
Oh I'm sorry Mcnutty, that is a three syllable word.

you can adjust yourself all you want, you've never done anything and your opinion is w-o-r-t-h-l-e-s-s.

that's nine letters, although i don't see the point of this counting game. stfu

It would be nice to see James White at least touch the floor.

Not that the Mavericks are some sort of model for us, but at least they've managed to give their rookies (Maurice Ager, Jose Juan Barea, Pops Mensah-Bonsu) playing time, while still maintaining a high level of basketball. Ager has played in 23 games, Barea 20 games, Bonsu 4 games. None of them played over 10 minutes (or even 5 minutes many of the times), but it's playing time none the less. Garbage minutes, blowouts, doesn't matter. Have to break them in sometime... Obviously different teams have different needs and priorities, but what are those rookies doing that James White isn't doing? Does it have less to do with White and more to do with the Spurs FO?

We're on a 12 game win streak, so there's not much to complain about, but surely White can play one or two games. I'm not too knowledgable on his play, but he did seem to be doing alright in the D-League, good enough to get the 'call back' (perhaps it had more to do with injuries to other Spurs).

I just read up on what little information there is on Dominic McGuire out of Fresno State.

See profile below:

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Originally Posted by DraftExpress Article

While every team in the NBA is going out to Fresno State to watch Quinton Hosley this year, its Cal transfer and redshirt junior Dominic McGuire that people are coming away raving about. After putting up a terrific stat-line a few weeks ago against Stanford (25 points, 13 rebounds in a heartbreaking loss), we wanted to wait to see him one more time before we were willing to really confirm what we saw and have been hearing so much about. From what we can tell, it was certainly worth waiting for.

Watching him again this past week on the road against a very talented Nevada team, it’s really hard not to get excited about his potential. McGuire is a legit 6-8 swingman who plays all five positions for his team, showing freakish athleticism, a terrific frame, and the kind of emerging versatile skill-set that draws comparisons to a young Joe Johnson from his days at Arkansas. “He’s the most talented wing player on the West Coast besides Budinger,” says one NBA scout who has been out to see him on multiple occasions. “We’re talking lottery-type upside here.”

McGuire passes the eye test and then some for an NBA swingman, possessing great size, terrific length, and a very nice frame. He is silky smooth on top of that, showing outstanding fluidity, excellent body control and the type of explosiveness needed to get into the lane and hang in the air for some incredibly creative finishes.

He is used at the power forward position mostly for Fresno State, but will at times swing over to point guard for a stretch or just explode off the floor for a rebound and go coast to coast himself. His ball-handling skills are extremely impressive, being capable of shaking guys off the dribble going left or right, and creating his own shot to pull up smoothly from mid-range or quickly make his way to the hoop. On first and second glance, he appears to be a pretty smart player who plays within his team’s offense unselfishly and would rather not force the issue, even if his decision making skills aren’t always the best. He’s a nice passer as his 3.1 assists per game average would indicate, and will show some nice creativity at times by threading the needle with tough passes.

Defensively, McGuire is averaging an outstanding 3.6 blocks per game thanks to his combination of size, length, excellent timing and the quickness in which he gets off his feet. While this strength is not particularly likely to translate over to the NBA, he does have the tools to become an extremely disruptive defender on the wing, especially in terms of his lateral quickness. Likewise, he is a very strong rebounder at the WAC level, pulling down just under 9 per game to complete a very versatile picture. Just to illustrate that point, he had a triple-double a few weeks ago against San Diego, with 14 points (4-6 FG), 14 rebounds, 10 blocks. Just for good measure, he added 4 assists and 6 turnovers.

In terms of weaknesses, McGuire has quite a few wrinkles to his game he’ll need to iron out. For one, he’s not a great finisher around the basket, lacking a bit of strength and craft in terms of using the glass in traffic. His perimeter jumper shows promise at times, but is not consistent in the least bit, as he does not have very good balance or footwork, and therefore does not have a steady release point. Like many smooth swingmen who can get their shot off virtually at any time, he has a tendency at times to settle from the perimeter for off-balance shots when he’d be much better off taking the ball strong to the hoop. He shows great toughness on the defensive end as his shot-blocking and rebounding numbers would indicate, but this toughness and hunger does not quite translate over to the offensive end the way you might hope.

Generally speaking, McGuire is not the most polished player you’ll find despite his status as a redshirt junior. He is still young for his class, though, just having turned 21 three months ago. He certainly lacks some focus on the court as his up and down numbers would indicate, and there were some minor off the court rumblings from his days at Cal, mainly regarding his overall maturity level. In terms of pure talent, though, it’s tough not to be extremely intrigued by what he’s showing this year—albeit inconsistently—at Fresno. Guys who are 6-8 and possess his kind of skill-set and athletic ability certainly don’t come around every day. It probably wouldn’t surprise anyone to see his name on the early-entry list when it’s all said and done, but he’s going to have to put up more performances like he did against Stanford and Nevada to improve his chances of landing in the first round. With that said, he’s the type of guy who is absolutely tailor-made to the NBA private workout setting.

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As he has really elevated his game this year, not much is known about him on the national scene. He is a guy that could be available with the Milwakee pick as of right now, and he could be a legit answer for long 3/small ball 4 the Spurs have been looking for.

Do you think he'd stay in if he knew he'd drop into the 2nd round? He has what we need, but I don't see him coming out this year.

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Originally Posted by mardigan

I also think Morris Almond from Rice could be a good fit, he isnt the most athletic guy in the world, but can score from anywhere, and he is 6-6, 6-7 ish. I also like the 6-9 kid from Fresno State McGuire. 6-9 with good ballhandling skills and he can block shots and play defense. His shot is pretty inconsitent, but I think the Spurs shooting coach could fix that. I think he will probably fall into the second, but then again, he might stay in school his senior year to try and raise his stock

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There ya go Tony, I love this kid too. I really think he could help us in many ways. But as you know, I really love Dudley and really hope the Spurs take him late in the first, or early in the second. By the way, did you ever see those vids of Bellinelli? Kid is so damn good...

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Originally Posted by Mr. Body

Do you think he'd stay in if he knew he'd drop into the 2nd round? He has what we need, but I don't see him coming out this year.

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Yea I dont see him coming out this year either. He didnt raise his stock any from last year, and he probably realizes as we do that this years draft is deep. If I were him I would definately come back for my senior year, he would be a for sure first next year

NBA draft.net and a couple other sI have seen have us taking this guy, havent seen a lot of him, but Im sure I will in the tourney




4Derrick ByarsVanderbilt
Birthday:4/25/1984NBA Postion:SG/SFClass:SeniorHt:6-7Wt:225College Team:VanderbiltHometown:Memphis, TNHigh School:Ridgeway

NBA Comparison: Brandon Roy
Strengths: Complete player with good lateral quickness and athleticism … Defensively Byars does a great job staying in front of his man … Fundamentally there are few guards in the draft that have his array of tools … Plays the game with a good level of moxie and toughness … Excellent ball handler who has played point guard several times during his collegiate career … Above average passer with solid court vision … Has legit three point range on his jumper that he can hit with regularity … Great finisher on the break where his body strength and athleticism allow him to finish with some flair … Adequate rebounder who does a good job of getting rebounds out of position … Has the ability work off screens for the quick jumper … Is an explosive scorer who has the mentality and skill to take control of a game … Possesses an NBA ready body that is strong enough to absorb contact and finish … Unselfish almost to a fault as he will often look to pass off to open teammates … Intelligent player with a good feel for the game … Will be viewed as one of the most complete prospects in the draft …

Weaknesses: Shot selection at times can be questionable … Would benefit his game if he utilized the mid-range shot more … Settles too much with shooting from the perimeter mostly from the three point shot … Needs to work on taking care of the ball better as he can get careless … Has a habit of getting out of control on his drives … Needs to move better without the ball has a tendency to stand around a little … Defensively Byars is solid but can reach a little too much on defense trying to get the quick steal … Doesn’t explode on his first step which could be the reason why he doesn’t always get full separation from his defender … Byars isn’t always consistent in games as he can go through periods where he is aggressive and dominates and then there are times he isn’t … Surprisingly despite his shooting touch he is a below average free throw shooter

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Originally Posted by Mr. Body

Do you think he'd stay in if he knew he'd drop into the 2nd round? He has what we need, but I don't see him coming out this year.

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At the end of the article it says that the writer wouldn't be shocked if he ended up on the early-entry list, especially since he is likely to excel in personal workouts with teams. Personally, I'm not sure if he comes out, but there's always hope...

He'd come out only with a promise from a team, unless he's having troubles somewhere. It doesn't seem likely a future 1st rounder jumps the gun without some bad advice and then tumbles into the second round, though I guess there's plenty of precedent for it.

As for the Byars, Nick Youngs, Morris Almonds of the world, there will probably be one or two good pros in there somewhere, although there will be some Antoine Wrights. Nobody's a bust that late, though.

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Originally Posted by Mr. Body

He'd come out only with a promise from a team, unless he's having troubles somewhere. It doesn't seem likely a future 1st rounder jumps the gun without some bad advice and then tumbles into the second round, though I guess there's plenty of precedent for it.

As for the Byars, Nick Youngs, Morris Almonds of the world, there will probably be one or two good pros in there somewhere, although there will be some Antoine Wrights. Nobody's a bust that late, though.

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Liked what I saw out of Brandon Rush in the Big 12 Championship game. He had the athleticism to stick with Durant on D(as his drop in production coincided with Rush switching to him), and showed nice form on his long-range ball. I think he could be an excellent 2/3, but if he declares I think others will take a look at him before he gets to the Spurs. Still, the more prospects that declare, the better the Spurs' chances are of getting a contributor...