So far this season the Spurs have not found an answer for stopping Dirk. Bruce is too undersized, Oberto and Elson aren't quick enough and Tim can't guard anyone outside the paint.
any suggestions?
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So far this season the Spurs have not found an answer for stopping Dirk. Bruce is too undersized, Oberto and Elson aren't quick enough and Tim can't guard anyone outside the paint.
any suggestions?
Why isn't Elson quick enough? Oberto I get, but Elson seems pretty spry for someone who just turned 30. Bruce can defend him at times, but if he does that, no one stops JHo. I think the plan is to give Dirk different looks and mix it at times to keep him off balance. Elson's added length and quickness is an element the Spurs didn't have with Mohammed or Nesterovic.
Do you think Elson can guard Dirk on the perimeter?
I thought everybody thought Elson was the key?
Elson has the quickness but is always out of position it seems. Brad Miller was taking it to the hole against Elson.
nobody, dirk sucks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spursfan101
I wish the spurs would hire youQuote:
Originally Posted by johngateswhiteley
OK, I'll take him. He's not even a foot taller than me.
Given a choice, If he can keep him there and off the FT line, the distance argument bodes better for the Spurs. Unless of course, he is just spot on the whole game.
All one could ask from Elson is to challenge Dirk and keep him off his "spots" the places Nowitzki likes to shoot from.
Everyone knows the Spurs like to funnel to 2 bigs but when they played "Small Ball", the other Big after Duncan, was Finley? Having Elson, and to a very limited extent, Oberto, gives the Spurs funneling D a better shot at stopping the Mavericks.
It's the logic that says that if you live by the jump shot, you can die by it too.
Given a choice, I prefer layups and dunks to jumpshots any day. If Elson makes him work, then all will be better for SA. It will still be hard-fought, but I think this mix is better than what the team had last year.
But dont you think if Dallas starts to pick and roll with Dirk, Elson's at a disadvantage?
who are they going to put on TD?
Tony
In the game that Elson played ... He did impress me. Now can he do it all game, in the playoffs ... I don't know, I don't think that anyone knows.
Elson is their best bet, but Oberto will get his chances too. They are different types. In a way the Spurs will do to Dirk what the Mavs will do with Duncan .. Throw many bodys at him and hope that on any given day .. Someone steps up.
You mix it up: Some Bruce, when JoHo is sitting, some Elson, some Fab.
:madrun Oberto guarding Dirk? Id rather take my chances with Ely. Ely>>>>Oberto in just about every aspect including this one!
Who cares who's on Dirk? He's probably going to get his one way or another. What the Spurs need to do is focus on shutting the support players down. Make Dirk think he has to do it himself and see if he crumbles under the pressure.
Easy, Diop. The dude always plays Duncan well.Quote:
Originally Posted by johngateswhiteley
Duncan can and will put Diop and Dampier in foul trouble no matter how well they play him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Budkin
I think there's really only one player who gives the Spurs the offensive and defensive versatility at the 4 position they need to beat the Dallas Mavericks. And not only do I think that, Pop does too.
http://i.a.cnn.net/si/2006/writers/i...1_nowitzki.jpg
Oberto, i think. If given the chance this one could be the dirtiest player on this team who's not aftraid to harass and put his body on anybody. We saw him doing it on Duncan in the Olympics. His minutes in the last playoffs was not enough to let us see what he's capable of. And okay he used to sit on the bench all year then Pops just put him there? He was a little bit awkward at that time. But i think this time he'll be ready.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spursfan101
BTW, we talk and talk about how we beat the Mavs, on how to guard Dirk but how about the Mavs have they found the answer to Tim Duncan? If Tim won't be in foul trouble they'd be in trouble, IMO :smokin .
He's healthy now folks. There's no PF. :p:
Please, oh please. Diop "guarded" him to the tune of 32.2/11.7 over 7 games.Quote:
Originally Posted by Budkin
Elson, Bruce, and Horry... Some Oberto. Dirk is a superstar like Tim. Some tend to forget how well Tim played against the Mavs last year and he is HEALTHIER now. Who's going to stop him? You don't stop superstars. As I've mentioned numerous times in previous threads, having an Elson type allows Bruce to guard Howard and the other players to guard their positions w/ out having to be reduced in size for 75% of the game thus suffering defensively and on the glass. Think of Dirk as Amare in the '05 WCF w/ a jump shot and no hops. Think of Howard as Marion w/ Bruce guarding him. While their record shows they have clearly killed it during the regular season, SA (Tim specifically) does have another notch that he can kick into for the playoffs. It remains to be seen if Dirk and co. can do the same (remember Detroit last year). It's not a knock on the Mavs, they've been incredible all year, but the most glaring disadvantages we had last year, while not completely rectified (still no perimeter player that can rebound at LEAST 6 RBG), are not all there this year. Regardless of how many games they've won, each time they play the Spurs, the games have been tight so it's still a toss up. I personally (could be wrong) think they are playing at their best right now. But make no doubt about it.... SA is getting stronger!
Beno
Elson's our only choice really. He is quick but he's just not that great of a defender unfortunately.
:tu Sorry read your post after i typed my loooong paragraph, but your's is a nicer condensed version :toastQuote:
Originally Posted by hitmanyr2k
who?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Lanier
Pop specifically HASN'T played Elson on Dirk since he was effective back in the first game, so I'm thinking Pop is going to throw a lot of Elson at Dirk, with a little Horry, Bowen and Finley mixed in.
CIA moves...
:tu plus you double from different places and show hard off the screens. Pop might even give Bonner some turns.Quote:
Originally Posted by exstatic
Finley obviously, and I kinda agree with him.Quote:
Originally Posted by RC's Boss
That was sarcasm. Finley no, Elson, Bonner, Rob yesQuote:
Originally Posted by EssaySpur1001
Finley didn't work out well last year so I doubt its gonna happen.
I like dat!Quote:
Originally Posted by RuffnReadyOzStyle
Length bothers Dirk. Bowen also knows where Dirk likes to hold the ball.
"Elson's our only choice really"
He's a klutz, like Fabricio. Way too many defensive stands end in those two guys fouling stupidly.
If they could actually play defense and rebound as thoroughly as they foul, one could try to live with the fouls.
Elson seems to play better, when the competition is raised.
Game 1 vs Mavericks.
Vs the Pistons.
Oberto same way.
Im confident they can be solid.
Fran Elson is the ultimate utility player: his 5&5 belie the fact that he only comes to play when he judges the opposition worthy of his best.
I noticed this too, though it was said it was because on injuries. I think that he is hold his cards close to his vest.Quote:
Pop specifically HASN'T played Elson on Dirk since he was effective back in the first game, so I'm thinking Pop is going to throw a lot of Elson at Dirk, with a little Horry, Bowen and Finley mixed in.
CIA moves...
Dirk eventually will have to do more than shoot jump shots. When he gets inside the paint, Tim can guard him. Right now he's relying on jump shots, he's an exceptionally good shooter, but as he learned last year in the Finals, those stop falling once things tighten up. They can guard and stop everyone else. Dirk's shots won't always fall. So nothing too much to worry about.
The Spurs have played the Mavs better than any other team in the NBA this year. The question isn't whether or not the Mavericks are better than the Spurs, it's how much better than the Spurs are they? About one jump shot better, to be honest. If you watch and pay attention to the games between the two, ignoring their 20 game streaks against everyone else, it wouldn't take much at all for the Spurs to win.
Be ready.
elson. of course elson is not going to stop dirk, just don't play small ball. let dirk get his and make the mavs shoot jump shots.
I agree, Dirk is going to get his. What we would like to do is improve our rebounding as a team (which killed us last year with small ball), without having a complete mismatch on Dirk. Elson gives us that. Bonner and Oberto might be able to give us some usable minutes as well. Particularly, Bonner might be able to stay with J. Ho, while Bowen matches up with Dirk. Last year, that was Finley on J-Ho, and Howard killed us on the boards (7.1 rpg, 2nd highest on their team. Finley was our 2nd highest at 4.7 boards).Quote:
Originally Posted by hitmanyr2k
Not to get off the subject, but is Dirk his real name? i know it's German, but it sounds pretty fucked up. That kind of name should make him want to pretend he's Artest and his parents, Artests wife and back slap them beyatches! Dirk rhymess w/, jerk... bezerk, twerp, mini-skirt.. etc.
The fact is, the Mavericks get too much respect from other teams just because they beat SA in the playoffs last year. None of their opponents show up to play, they're too busy being intimidated by a defensive, but still jump shooting team.
It's more about the majority of the NBA being bad than Dallas being good. Outside of SA and Utah, Dallas has no solid competition. Any of the other 28 teams will be beaten on any given night against Dallas.
Make Dirk play defense is also a good way.
If he is playing weak assed defense then you need to have whoever he is guarding score. That is why if Bruces back is whack it won't work.
T-Park is that light shedding forth?Quote:
T_Park Finley didn't work out well last year so I doubt its gonna happen.
Elson for most of the game with Duncan making sure he stays out of foul trouble. Then Duncan takes over a good bit in the fourth. Sprinkle in Bowen, Oberto, Horry and whoever else may be on the playoff roster (Ely?).
What fucking light.Quote:
T-Park is that light shedding forth?
I think Finley should play, but not at the 4.
I've said that for the longest time.
Don't guard him, guard the rest ... the blondie will make mistakes, that's it. and plz explains this carefully to Manu.
Thanks for the laugh. :lolQuote:
Originally Posted by SpursDynasty
the best way to Defend the Mavs is a FIBA/NCAA TYPE OF ZONE D.When Dirk is on the perimeter Manu or/and Bruce can guard him and when he goes to the paint eather Tim or Elson can take care of him.They should´ve done that last year.
BTW,Dirk wouldn´t be able to play out of his mind all the time in a FIBA turnament like He does in the NBA.(cause of the zone Ds)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spursfan101
Do you think anyone can guard Dirk on the perimater?
The answer is no. We do, however, need someone that can rebound with him and at least slow him down. Elson is our best option here.
IMO one of the main reasons the Mavs won the series last year is because of Dirks ability to rebound over Bruce. I can't begin to count how badly they killed us on the boards. Look at his rebound totals from that series. They were absolutely monstrous.
The other thing I noticed is that other teams don't go at Dirk on the defensive end. If you can't guard him, you gotta get him out of the game. He's not a good defender and is slow of foot in that regard. Attack him aggressively and see if you can't get him into foul trouble.
Elson doesn't like players that are banging...that's not what Dirk does. He won't have a problem with Dirk.
Miller believe it or not can be a pretty physical player, especially when he's pissed. Ask Shaq......
Well if that's the case good luck against Phoenix. :lolQuote:
Originally Posted by whottt
Duncan and Elson are pretty much switchable to either KT or Amare. Unless you really think the Spurs are scared to put Duncan on Stoudamire when he's fully healthy?Quote:
Originally Posted by mavsfan1000
Utah whooped Dallas 101-79. Then lost 108-105. Looks like solid competition to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by mavsfan1000
The Spurs have won 1, and lost 2 games by an average of 4 points. Again, solid competition.
The rest of the league has played no where close to Utah and SA vs Dallas.
I find it funny that you judge the mavs season on a few games. The first spurs loss was the first game of the season. That was like a preseason/post hangover finals game. The last 2 meetings were in San Antonio and the mavs won both including one on a back-to-back night. Dallas is a much better team now that they added George and Buckner in replace of Griffin, Daniels, and Van Horn. Winning close games is what Dallas does best.Quote:
Originally Posted by SpursDynasty
So are you implying then that the Mavs will just roll over SA or Utah in the playoffs?Quote:
Originally Posted by mavsfan1000
Did I say that? No but I think Dallas will find a way to win the close games to take them out. I would say Utah would be easier than San Antonio though. Dallas probably takes out Utah in 6 and San Antonio might go 7.Quote:
Originally Posted by picnroll
:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol:lolQuote:
Originally Posted by SpursDynasty
oh yea...forgot this...
:lol:lol
The only person who can slow Dirk is Pop. He has to push the officials in to calling the offensive push offs that he and Terry do on virtually every play.
I'd personally like to see the Mavs get past a fully healthy Rockets. Yao pretty much bitch slaps Dampier and Diop when he's good to go and more often than not TMac outplays Dirk.Quote:
Originally Posted by mavsfan1000
:cry:cry:cry:cry:cry:cryQuote:
Originally Posted by dbestpro
oh yea, forgot this...
:cry:cry
Elson will probably be the main guy. That is after all why the Spurs signed him (to better match up with Dallas and Phoenix).Quote:
Originally Posted by Spursfan101
I've heard a couple of the Spurs players say that Elson is the second quickest guy on this team (after Parker, of course). That might be a bit of an overstatement, but he's as quick as any 7-footer in the league.
Now... he's not used to defending much on the perimeter, so it remains to be see how well he cay guard Dirk away from the basket. Elson is a low-post guy, and has never needed to be much of an on-the-ball defender. It'll be interesting to see how he does on Dirk. Too bad he was injured the last time we played Dallas. I really wanted to see Elson in there.
I think Elson will be at least as good as anyone else we've tried on him, and having Elson on the floor will give us another shot blocking presence. We didn't have that secondary shot blocker last year because they (Nazzi and Rasho) were too slow and had to be benched against Dallas. Or at least Popovich felt they did.
In addition to Elson, we may see Bowen spend a little time on Dirk, but not much. Horry will guard him some, as will Oberto, and maybe even Matt Bonner. But I still think Elson will be the main guy. I'm looking forward to the Dallas-vs-SA game next month. Hopefully we'll get a nice little preview there.
It's worth mentioning that we're not assured of a Dallas rematch in the playoffs. Getting through Phoenix isn't exactly going to be a cakewalk. But... based on what I'm seeing from the Spurs right now, I think they'll get past Phoenix.
It would be wonderful to see Yao get healthy and for Houston to pick up their game so they maybe they could at least push Dallas to 6 games.
Last year, the Spurs exhaustion coming out of Sacramento (thanks largely to league's asinine scheduling) really hurt the Spurs. They managed to pull together enough energy to win game 1, but I think it all caught up with them in game 2.
We can probably plan on Phoenix working out the Spurs. Let's just hope Houston can do at least a little of the same against Dallas.
Elson faster tham Manu,beno,vaughn,Bowen?Quote:
Originally Posted by Kent_in_Atlanta
don´t think so.
He may be the fastest big man in the team,not the fastest after Tony.
but he can´t guard Dirk on the perimeter.
It´s gonna take a zone D to stop him.
I'm just relaying what I've heard said. I remember one of the Spurs (can't remember who, but I want to say either Bowen or Horry) Elson might be the second fastest guy on the team. Seems like I heard one of the Spurs TV announcers say the same.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArgSpursFan
Again, I agree that such a statement is probably an exaggeration, but he is as fast as any 7-footer in the league. That’s why I think Elson will be the main guy they put on Dirk. When Bowen guards him_as great a defender as he is_he doesn’t have the length to keep Dirk from shooting over the top of him. And of course that takes Bruce away from the guy we need him to guard… Josh Howard. Of all the guys on this team with the length to guard Dirk, Elson is probably the quickest. So I think he’ll be the guy.
I don't see how a zone would stop Dirk. A zone opens up outside opportunities, which Dirk would love. The Spurs will probably use a combination of guys: Elson, Horry, and possibly Bonner against Dirk, and will concentrate on good team defense.
There are alot of zone Defense systems,not just one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kent_in_Atlanta
i´d go with a 3-2 classic zone D.Meaning 3 guys at the perimeter and 2 inside,mixing it up with some double-teams and rotations.
you can actually play zone and 1(or box and 1) in order to make Bruce follow Dirk on the perimeter ,and When Dirk goes to the low post,or by the Free throws line eather Elson or Tim can guard him.
I'm not judging the Mavs' season on a few games. They are beating everyone they're supposed to beat, which is good, but Utah and SA have given Dallas the most competition. They are still the best team in the NBA, but SA and Utah play them so closely that it won't take much more for them, mostly SA, to beat Dallas.Quote:
Originally Posted by mavsfan1000