The Ginobili Foul and the .4 Shot...

How much bigger would the impact of both these plays be if both teams who were the beneficiaries actually went on to win the championship.


I think Horry's game 5 shot against the Pistons is a bigger deal than both .4 and the game 7 ginobili foul since Horry's shot gave his team the ring.


While people will argue we would've been going for a 4 peat had ginobili not fouled and the .4 shot never happened, I still think the impact of both those plays is slightly lessened since neither team won it all the years that each of the respective plays took place. (which isn't to say that neither plays were not huge)


thoughts?

Lessened ??? Well, only if u are not a Spurs fan ; those 2 plays were heartbreakers (curiously, in both games, we made great comebacks)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by lefty

Lessened ??? Well, only if u are not a Spurs fan ; those 2 plays were heartbreakers (curiously, in both games, we made great comebacks)

---

I mean in regards to NBA history.


Maybe I'm wrong


Maybe people will always look back and remember .4 and the game 7 foul (not just spurs fans)

but then again, think how much greater the impact those plays would be if the teams went on to win it all is what I'm asking.

Okay, first of all, the Spurs would have probably gotten owned by the Pistons in the Finals in 2004 had they made it, and secondly, who the fuck cares? It's in the past and all we can do is look at the present and look to the future.

Oh, you're saying what if the Lakers and Mavs had went on to win it? Well, either way, the plays will be remembered forever, and we can never really know how it could affect the present or future.

I still remember the phantom moving screen by Billy Paultz against the Bullets. In all likelihood, that play (official's call) kept the Spurs from moving on to the the NBA Finals versus Seattle.

I think if the Manu foul never happened it's quite likely we'd be playing Detroit again. The Pistons whole existence in '05-06 was a rematch with us. When we lost to Dallas they just didn't give a shit anymore.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by aaronstampler

I think if the Manu foul never happened it's quite likely we'd be playing Detroit again. The Pistons whole existence in '05-06 was a rematch with us. When we lost to Dallas they just didn't give a shit anymore.

---

:donkey

By the way, I just got to meet Paul Simonon (bassist for the Clash) and Damon Albarn (Blur, Gorillaz) so I'm a bit disoriented right now


I'll probably come back to this tommorow and be like "meh"

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Solid D

I still remember the phantom moving screen by Billy Paultz against the Bullets. In all likelihood, that play (official's call) kept the Spurs from moving on to the the NBA Finals versus Seattle.

---

Man; that must have been frustrating ; f....ing refs ; was that series played before the 1st or 2nd Finals beetwen Seattle and Washington?
It it was before the 2nd, that means the league wanted a rematch ; Fu...ing NBA!!

That was before the rematch. Bullets were defending champs at the time.

People will always remember 0.4 just as they have remembered the steal by Bird, Jordan's shot on Ehlo, Starks' baseline jam, Dr. J's hangtime reverse layup. None of those teams went on to win the championship, but the plays were memorable plays in big games made by players from big market teams.

The Memorial Day Miracle should be bigger than it is, but San Antonio. What are you gonna do.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SRJ

People will always remember 0.4 just as they have remembered the steal by Bird, Jordan's shot on Ehlo, Starks' baseline jam, Dr. J's hangtime reverse layup. None of those teams went on to win the championship, but the plays were memorable plays in big games made by players from big market teams.

The Memorial Day Miracle should be bigger than it is, but San Antonio. What are you gonna do.

---

good point

i like the agony i feel when i reflect upon .4 and "the foul". it's a little masochistic i know, but the subsequent years made it all worth it. good thing they (the unfortunate events) didn't turn us into red sox fans.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ShoogarBear

That was before the rematch. Bullets were defending champs at the time.

---

Of course it was ; fucking NBA

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SRJ

People will always remember 0.4 just as they have remembered the steal by Bird, Jordan's shot on Ehlo, Starks' baseline jam, Dr. J's hangtime reverse layup. None of those teams went on to win the championship, but the plays were memorable plays in big games made by players from big market teams.

The Memorial Day Miracle should be bigger than it is, but San Antonio. What are you gonna do.

---

Interesting

thats 5 rings missin from the spurs cabinet, fuck this booze time

You simply cannot catch, turn and shoot a high-arcing jumpshot in 0.4 seconds. I'll always remember that play as a travesty of officiating.

The Manu foul doesn't really bother me that much, because I don't think it's a forgone conclusion that we would have won that game anyway. Small Ball lost that series, not a dumb foul.

0.4 still keeps me up nights. But again, it's important to remember that it was Game 5, and it doesn't necessarily mean we would have beaten Minnesota or Detroit. Perhaps it saved us from a greater disappointment down the line.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Spurminator

The Manu foul doesn't really bother me that much, because I don't think it's a forgone conclusion that we would have won that game anyway. Small Ball lost that series, not a dumb foul.

---

I disagree. Dallas was beaten. They had blown a 3-1 game lead and then a 20 point lead. It was over.

Quote:

---

0.4 still keeps me up nights. But again, it's important to remember that it was Game 5, and it doesn't necessarily mean we would have beaten Minnesota or Detroit. Perhaps it saved us from a greater disappointment down the line.

---

The only argument against that is that Spurs had been on a roll like no other team before or since. They had finished by winning it's last 10 regular season games (admittedly their last loss was against the Twolves) and then six straight playoff games until the Lakers won two at Staples.

I think they would have beaten Minnesota, and Detroit might have been another seven game classic.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ShoogarBear

I disagree. Dallas was beaten. They had blown a 3-1 game lead and then a 20 point lead. It was over.

The only argument against that is that Spurs had been on a roll like no other team before or since. They had finished by winning it's last 10 regular season games (admittedly their last loss was against the Twolves) and then six straight playoff games until the Lakers won two at Staples.

I think they would have beaten Minnesota, and Detroit might have been another seven game classic.

---

The Ginobili foul hurts so bad, because we couldn't buy a call at the other end. We went back down the floor, Manu drove, was fouled twice & got the shot off, without getting a call. Then Tim went up for the rebound, and was fouled twice again, to stop the putback - again, no call. He still secured the rebound. He tries to go up again, is fouled again - stopping him from elevating and dunking. He has to layup & is blocked by Dirk. 5 Fouls on the play, and the defending champions can't buy a call in their own building, that was given 1 play ago at the other end...
Don't you just love the NBA! :devil
I'm pretty confident we would have taken the Suns, and would put money on us not choking like the Mavs against Miami. Yeah, that cost us a ring...

The point 4 shot was also BS. As someone else pointed out in this thread, it is physically impossible to get that jumpshot off in time w/o the clock being started late. What is more irritating is that we had a similar situation come up in the regular season the next year. (Against Utah IIRC). Only this time, the Spurs took the shot with a bad clock start. Utah protested and the shot was cancelled - they won the game. So, the rule is, if it screws the Spurs, that's how you make the decision...

And BTW Shoogar, we would have taken Minny easy, and I think we would have beaten Detroit. Detroit caught a huge break in 2005, when Malone injured his knee. When he was able to play, he made the Lakers a lot better, because he was able to balance between Kobe and Shaq, keeping them both semi-satisfied with their shot attempts, due to his elder statesman status... We could have taken detroit. After they acquired Sheed, we beat them in the middle of a HUGE defensive streak for the pistons. Yeah, we could take their best effort, and as we demonstrated next year, simply had more people who could win games for us...

Bumps in the Spur's timeline.
Any team's history that's worth reading about by future sports afficianados is rife with bumps and untimely events at important junctures.
I'm so gotdam lucky to have had THE CHANCE to ride that horse called go-spurs-go and now I can sit down and smile at those quirky .4's and ***wwhaaatttttttt***????????? kinds of fouls, who knows what they really mean, down the road later on.

The moving pick and .4 are things that happened to us, outside of our control to a certain extent (although we put ourselves in a position to be vicitimized one could argue).

THE FOUL is something we did to ourselves, which makes it hard for me to get over...especially when you look at the photo, Manu's not even close to blocking that shot. Biggest f-up in Spurs playoff history, IMO.

I don't think we'd have done so well against the Heat. We allowed Dallas to completely discombobulate us...small ball and all that jazz.

I agree that both of those definitely hurt less because those teams did not go on to win the championship, but it still sucked for the Spurs fans that our team was eliminated on a couple of wild fluke plays. Lakers and Mavericks had no business winning those series, they both went on to WCF's that were hardly a WCF: Timberwolves sucked and went back into being a non-playoff team the next year. The Suns didn't have Amare, who was a monster until sitting out all last season.

Also, both went to Finals that would have been winnable for the Spurs. (Yes, even the Pistons)

Both of those plays have no significant NBA historical impact in the bigger context: Only the Spurs fans remember Manu's foul and Fisher's shot is more of a highlight reel moment.

But, what can we do now? Watch the Spurs on a 12-game winning streak and watch them hit their shots against the Mavs this year. Spurs have the mental toughness that most NBA teams lack vs Dallas. I've seen so many teams miss their wide open shots vs Dallas. That's just being weak mentally.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Amuseddaysleeper

I mean in regards to NBA history.


Maybe I'm wrong


Maybe people will always look back and remember .4 and the game 7 foul (not just spurs fans)

but then again, think how much greater the impact those plays would be if the teams went on to win it all is what I'm asking.

---

Well then what about Jordan's shot in game 5 against the Cavaliers? they didnt win the title that year, but its one of the most famous and legendary shots of all time.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Amuseddaysleeper

How much bigger would the impact of both these plays be if both teams who were the beneficiaries actually went on to win the championship.


I think Horry's game 5 shot against the Pistons is a bigger deal than both .4 and the game 7 ginobili foul since Horry's shot gave his team the ring.


While people will argue we would've been going for a 4 peat had ginobili not fouled and the .4 shot never happened, I still think the impact of both those plays is slightly lessened since neither team won it all the years that each of the respective plays took place. (which isn't to say that neither plays were not huge)


thoughts?

---

.4 was a very interesting series. I expected the Lakers to lose that series from the beginning. The Spurs were a much better "team" that year. That Laker team was a circus. One of my least favorite in a long time. Them getting crushed by a much better Detroit squad in the Finals just confirmed it. I believe that the Spurs would have still lost to Detroit that season, but would have taken it to seven games.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by stretch

Well then what about Jordan's shot in game 5 against the Cavaliers? they didnt win the title that year, but its one of the most famous and legendary shots of all time.

---

yeah I agree with that as well as what SRJ said earlier


also, in regards to .4, the only thing that makes it slightly acceptable is that the lakers did deserve .8 on the clock and not .4, as when the ball went through the hoop there was .8 left

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TonyParkerSux

.4 was a very interesting series. I expected the Lakers to lose that series from the beginning. The Spurs were a much better "team" that year. That Laker team was a circus. One of my least favorite in a long time. Them getting crushed by a much better Detroit squad in the Finals just confirmed it. I believe that the Spurs would have still lost to Detroit that season, but would have taken it to seven games.

---

It is hard to say what would have happened if we were to have won that series. If the Spurs would have gone on to win the series it could have been a major boost and they could have made the Piston cannon fodder.....or....that series could have drained them so much that playing the Pistons in the finals would have been a non-contest....we will never know.

The .4 shot was a clean shot they even changed the rule after that. The story of the series was the disappearance of Tony Parker after we started roughing him up a little. He was killing us in the beginning and then disappeared at the end. Also Karl Malone's defense was key.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TonyParkerSux

.4 was a very interesting series. I expected the Lakers to lose that series from the beginning. The Spurs were a much better "team" that year. That Laker team was a circus. One of my least favorite in a long time. Them getting crushed by a much better Detroit squad in the Finals just confirmed it. I believe that the Spurs would have still lost to Detroit that season, but would have taken it to seven games.

---

Spurs lost that series in LA in games 3 and 4. We were better than the Lakers that year and after 2 great games we played in SA they were awful back in LA and let the Lakers right back in the series. Spurs played badly for most of game 5, Duncan hit a miracle shot that 9 times out of 10 he would miss. Then Fisher hit a shot that 9 times out of 10 he would miss.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dbreiden83080

Spurs lost that series in LA in games 3 and 4. We were better than the Lakers that year and after 2 great games we played in SA they were awful back in LA and let the Lakers right back in the series. Spurs played badly for most of game 5, Duncan hit a miracle shot that 9 times out of 10 he would miss. Then Fisher hit a shot that 999 times out of 1000 he would miss.

---

fixed it

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Amuseddaysleeper

fixed it

---

:smokin

I've come to the realization that our own timekeeper screwed us in the "0.4" game. He should have started the clock as soon as he saw the ball leave Payton's hands. Factoring in his reaction time it would have syncronized a little better with Fisher's catch, turnaround and shoot. The buzzer would have definitely sounded before his release.

Anyways.... what could have been....

On to the future.

Actually, I believe during the playoffs the timekeepers are not the usual team employees hired for the regular season but special ones hired by the league.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Phenomanul

I've come to the realization that our own timekeeper screwed us in the "0.4" game. He should have started the clock as soon as he saw the ball leave Payton's hands. Factoring in his reaction time it would have syncronized a little better with Fisher's catch, turnaround and shoot. The buzzer would have definitely sounded before his release.

Anyways.... what could have been....

On to the future.

---

Most human reaction times are granular to about .7sec. It is a bullshit rule that shouldn't even be on the books. Anything less than about .7sec can't be reliably timed by humans.