What Sets the Spurs Apart From the Suns and Mavs?

What sets San Antonio apart from Dallas or Phoenix is that the Spurs are the only team in the Western Conference with 2 great players (Tim and Manu).

Obviously, there are other teams that have multiple excellent players, but only San Antonio has two greats. Let me explain.

Excellent players and great players are alike in almost every way… with one notable difference. A great player is simply an excellent player who has another gear when it counts the most. It’s the guy for whom the basket seems two feet wider in the final 5:00 of the 4th quarter... or who always come up with the great play in crunch time. A great player is the guy you can almost bank on taking over the game in a crucial situation. Every bone in his body screams “champion”.

The baseball equivalent in recent years would be Curt Schilling or John Smoltz. There are a number of guys who can match them pitch for pitch just about the entire way… but they have one more gear that comes out when it’s all on the line.

Guys like Josh Howard, Tony Parker, and especially Amare Stoudemire are all excellent players. You could probably throw Shaun Marion and maybe Jason Terry in that category as well. But between the 3 elite teams in the west… there are 4 truly great players: Tim Duncan, Dirk Nowitski, Steve Nash, and Manu Ginobili. As you’ll notice… two of them wear silver and black.

Let me be clear… Amare Stoudemire is very excellent. But has he proven he has an additional gear? I don’t think he has yet.

So if the Spurs have two great players, why didn’t they win last year? Because we were missing a key role player (another big man who could run). The result was that we were clearly out-rebounded, and didn’t have another shot blocker to help protect the rim on defense. We also lost against the Lakers a few years ago due to a lack of a key role player (a pure shooter who could hit an open shot when LA collapsed the paint). That's why the Spurs couldn't get Brent Barry on the phone fast enough after that series was over.

A lot of people express concern about the Spurs cast of role players this year. I think that concern was once valid, but is now outdated. Not too long ago, we had reason to be concerned about guys like Bowen and Finley, but that’s no longer the case. They’ve both stepped up their games in a big way (though Bowen needs to rediscover his baseline-3). Francisco Elson (as fast a 7-footer as there is in the league) will match up quite well against Dallas and Phoenix. Brent Barry still drains from long-distance. Jacque Vaughn has really solidified the backup point guard position. We all know that Robert Horry will be a solid contributor in the post-season. Heck… Matt Bonner could even play a significant role before all is said and done.

I think the Spurs have all the pieces necessary to compliment what no other team has… two truly great players.

Nice post but I disagree with some of it. It isn't about the Big 2 being better than their Big 1's. It's a little bigger team picture than that.

Our Big 3 has to be better than their Big 4's.

Tim, Manu and Tony have to be greater than Amare, Nash, Marion and Barbosa and Dirk, JHo, Terry and Stack.

Add to that they have guys like Bell and DHarris, you could even say it's their Big 5 vs our Big 4 (if the Spurs can find a fourth).

Oh and I think it's funny that you included Manu in the truly greats, along with Duncan, Nash and Dirk, but not any of the other players. Manu has had some great games but so have some of the other guys you are leaving off.

Kori do you think BB could be included in that 4th player when looking at some of the match ups? Bruce usually does a good job on Marion, as well as JHO. I know his offense has been suspect lately, mainly because he is struggling with his baseline 3. But I think he is our 4th player defensively at least. Do you think our best three or four can be better?

Nice post. I didn't know Brent served that purpose for the Spurs, our FA is really good.

The way I see it, in a lot of ways the Mavs are the most vulnerable of the big three because both the Suns and the Spurs have a third best player that's better than the Mavs' second best player.

But Dallas does have a lot of guys who can hurt you on a given night. I agree with Kori that for us to beat anybody we're gonna need a fourth, fifth, sixth guy to step up. Brent's gonna have to knock down threes against the Suns, Fin's gonna have to match points with Stack, Bowen's gonna have to elimanate Marion/Howard and Elson's gonna have to guard the paint and rebound.

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Originally Posted by Kori Ellis

Nice post but I disagree with some of it. It isn't about the Big 2 being better than their Big 1's. It's a little bigger team picture than that.

Our Big 3 has to be better than their Big 4's.

Tim, Manu and Tony have to be greater than Amare, Nash, Marion and Barbosa and Dirk, JHo, Terry and Stack.

Add to that they have guys like Bell and DHarris, you could even say it's their Big 5 vs our Big 4 (if the Spurs can find a fourth).

Oh and I think it's funny that you included Manu in the truly greats, along with Duncan, Nash and Dirk, but not any of the other players. Manu has had some great games but so have some of the other guys you are leaving off.

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To go back to the baseball analogy... many pitchers have thrown every bit as well as Schilling or Smoltz. The fact remains, they have another gear in big post-season games. As a long time Braves fan... Greg Maddux and Tom Glavine will be regarded among the all-time greats. However, they were never able to consistently elevate their games in the post-season. Now of course, Maddux or Glavine at their everyday level of play (back in their prime) was pretty darn good, but they didn't have another gear.

Of course Amare and some of these other guys are going to be excellent. But there are a select few that have proven themselves able to elevate thier games when it counts the most.

Again, I happen to believe that between these 3 teams, there are 4 such players: Nash, Nowitski, Duncan, and Ginobili. I could be wrong, but that's the way I see it.

And of course, you are correct that is the level of play by these teams as a whole that will matter, and not who has the best 3 or the best 4. My point is that, all other things being relatively equal (as they seem to be between these 3 teams), it often comes down a great player pulling his team over the top... and the Spurs have 2 such players.

Kori, when Manu is going off the way he did in the 2005 finals - to the point where people question the decision to give the MVP trophy to Tim Duncan!!!... do you really think players like Howard, Barbosa, Diaw (as good as they are, and they are excellent) are at the same level as Manu?

I don’t.

We all agree that Manu could have easily been award the Finals MVP. That’s a hell of a thing to say when Tim Duncan (who of course was the actual recipient of the trophy) is your teammate.

Manu has PROVEN himself to be an MVP caliber player on the post-season stage. The other players you mentioned of course play very well throughout the season and the post-season… but MVP level? I just don’t think any of those other guys haven proven that yet.

Manu proved himself 2 years ago. It could be a different story this time around. Who really knows?

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Originally Posted by Kori Ellis

Nice post but I disagree with some of it. It isn't about the Big 2 being better than their Big 1's. It's a little bigger team picture than that.

Our Big 3 has to be better than their Big 4's.

Tim, Manu and Tony have to be greater than Amare, Nash, Marion and Barbosa and Dirk, JHo, Terry and Stack.

Add to that they have guys like Bell and DHarris, you could even say it's their Big 5 vs our Big 4 (if the Spurs can find a fourth).

Oh and I think it's funny that you included Manu in the truly greats, along with Duncan, Nash and Dirk, but not any of the other players. Manu has had some great games but so have some of the other guys you are leaving off.

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One more thought... if Finley is playing as he did through most of the post-season last year and as he is playing now... I think he fills out a San Antonio "Big 4" just fine. I would certainly compare a sharp and aggressive Micheal Finley to a Stackhouse or a Barbosa in terms of overall ability.

But again... my point was never to compare who the best 3 or 4 player combinations are for each team. And you were correct that it's about the team as a whole.

As a whole... SA's team defense has once again been re-established as the best in basketball. And the Spurs certainly have plenty of offensive weapons. Especially against the Sun's defense.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not underestimating the Suns, and certainly not the Mavs, but I do think the Spurs would have a slight edge on both if the playoffs started tomorrow.

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Originally Posted by bdictjames

Nice post. I didn't know Brent served that purpose for the Spurs, our FA is really good.

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Brent started out slow, but he's top 5 in 3-point FG% this year... and that was pretty much the job description the Spurs handed Barry when he got here a few years ago.

Default Re: What Sets the Spurs Apart From the Suns and Mavs?

I thought this was a trick question or something....(3 rings thing) or distance or that all three are MAJOR US cities....

hmmmmm

B4 i go on...yes im a spurs homer....SPURS have TIMMAYYY and they don't...1 more point timmay and we are back to back champs! Timmay is key when comparing to SUNS and MAVS.....IMO they have no ANSWER for him....(ok maybe throwing 3-4 fresh bodies at him)
We'll b IGHT! If he's IGHT!

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Originally Posted by inagra

Manu proved himself 2 years ago. It could be a different story this time around. Who really knows?

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That's true, but other coaches and players have been commenting that he's playing at that 2005 post-season level right now. I would agree.

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Originally Posted by Kent_in_Atlanta

One more thought... if Finley is playing as he did through most of the post-season last year and as he is playing now... I think he fills out a San Antonio "Big 4" just fine. I would certainly compare a sharp and aggressive Micheal Finley to a Stackhouse or a Barbosa in terms of overall ability.

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I think you are either overrating Finley or underrating Barbosa. Barbosa puts up very similar numbers to Manu.

The thing that probably sets the Spurs apart from the Suns and Mavs to me is the Spurs are THE superior defensive team. At least when Pop is not overly committed to playing "small ball".

That will have to be their calling card during the playoffs....and they absolutely MUST rebound the ball better.

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Originally Posted by Kori Ellis

I think you are either overrating Finley or underrating Barbosa. Barbosa puts up very similar numbers to Manu.

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Okay... I have no problem with your take on Finley vs. Barbosa. But you're comparing Barabosa to Manu!!!!?????

Come on Kori, you know Manu could easily have 25 point per game average right now had he been called on to do so, and you also know as well as I do that the ole' "you can't measure his game in stats" cliche never applied to anyone more than Manu.

Ginobili is a helluva lot better than he looks on paper. Tell me you wouldn't trade 2 Barbosa's for Manu in a heartbeat.

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Originally Posted by Kent_in_Atlanta

Okay... I have no problem with your take on Finley vs. Barbosa. But you're comparing Barabosa to Manu!!!!?????

Come on Kori, you know Manu could easily have 25 point per game average right now had he been called on to do so, and you also know as well as I do that the ole' "you can't measure his game in stats" cliche never applied to anyone more than Manu.

Ginobili is a helluva lot better than he looks on paper. Tell me you wouldn't trade 2 Barbosa's for Manu in a heartbeat.

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if manu played on the suns he wouldf average 30
suns average 150 a game
spurs good to get 100 3 games in a row

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Originally Posted by SenorSpur

The thing that probably sets the Spurs apart from the Suns and Mavs to me is the Spurs are THE superior defensive team. At least when Pop is not overly committed to playing "small ball".

That will have to be their calling card during the playoffs....and they absolutely MUST rebound the ball better.

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You are indeed wise! Agreed, 100%. The only thing I will state slightly differently is that I don't think Elson necessarily has to be in better in the rebounding/shot blocking department than Rasho or Nazzi were. Their production in both departments would have been enough to tighten the Spurs defense and rebounding considerably. The difference is... Elson can run. So hopefully, Pop won't feel the need to send Elson to the bench as he did Rasho and Nazzi.

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Originally Posted by Kent_in_Atlanta

Okay... I have no problem with your take on Finley vs. Barbosa. But you're comparing Barabosa to Manu!!!!?????

Come on Kori, you know Manu could easily have 25 point per game average right now had he been called on to do so, and you also know as well as I do that the ole' "you can't measure his game in stats" cliche never applied to anyone more than Manu.

Ginobili is a helluva lot better than he looks on paper. Tell me you wouldn't trade 2 Barbosa's for Manu in a heartbeat.

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I didn't say Barbosa was equal to Manu, so simmer down. :lol I said he puts up similar stats to Manu. Many people consider Barbosa the main candidate for 6th Man of the Year. So I think you were discrediting him by comparing him to Finley in overall ability.

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Originally Posted by ducks

if manu played on the suns he wouldf average 30
suns average 150 a game
spurs good to get 100 3 games in a row

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That is an EXCELLENT point. PPG averages are going to look better for players on a run-and-gun team like the Suns, because there are many more opportunities to shoot.

I think points-per-game is a little overblown anyway, because it's almost the only thing people look at when measuring a player offensively (unless he's a point guard, in which case most people are willing to consider assists as well).

Field goal percentage is often much more important in terms of helping your team.

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Originally Posted by Kent_in_Atlanta

That is an EXCELLENT point. PPG averages are going to look better for players on a run-and-gun team like the Suns, because there are many more opportunities to shoot.

I think points-per-game is a little overblown anyway, because it's almost the only thing people look at when measuring a player offensively (unless he's a point guard, in which case most people are willing to consider assists as well).

Field goal percentage is often much more important in terms of helping your team.

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Well Manu shoots 47% and Barbosa shoots 48% :)

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Originally Posted by Kori Ellis

I didn't say Barbosa was equal to Manu, so simmer down. :lol I said he puts up similar stats to Manu. Many people consider Barbosa the main candidate for 6th Man of the Year. So I think you were discrediting him by comparing him to Finley in overall ability.

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You'll probably disagree with me... but I think that if Finley had played all season the way he's playing now, he would also be a viable sixth-man candidate.

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Originally Posted by Kent_in_Atlanta

You'll probably disagree with me... but I think that if Finley had played all season the way he's playing now, he would also be a viable sixth-man candidate.

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Yes I disagree with you.

In March, he's only shooting 43% and not doing much outside his scoring, averaging about 2 rebounds and 1 assist in 20 mpg. Nothing impressive.

Did you forget he just shot 2-for-12 a couple games ago?

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Originally Posted by Kori Ellis

Well Manu shoots 47% and Barbosa shoots 48% :)

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Kori, I still believe, and I think you do as well… I think you’re messing with me a little bit to see if my head will explode :cuss :lol… that Manu brings things to floor, not easily measured in stats, that almost no other player in the league, including Barbosa, can provide. And I’m convinced that there isn’t a GM in the NBA who wouldn’t trade Barbosa for Ginobili.

That said, I will grant you that throughout most of this season, what Barbosa brought to the Suns was somewhat commensurate to what Ginobili gave the Spurs.

However, correct me if the following statement is off base.

On February 27, 2007 at approximately 6:55 eastern time in Atlanta, Georgia, Manu Ginobili walked into a phone booth at Phillips Arena and emerged with a red cape emblazoned with “GIIIINNNNOOOOBILI” in big blue letters… the same one he wore in during the 2005 Finals. No reason to believe he'll be taking it off again this year.

That Ginobili will make Leandro Barbosa his woman every day of the week and twice on Sunday. Tell me I’m wrong. :toast

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Originally Posted by Kent_in_Atlanta

Kori, I still believe, and I think you do as well… I think you’re messing with me a little bit to see if my head will explode :cuss :lol… that Manu brings things to floor, not easily measured in stats, that almost no other player in the league, including Barbosa, can provide. And I’m convinced that there isn’t a GM in the NBA who wouldn’t trade Barbosa for Ginobili.

...

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Yes, I'm messing with you because you are contradicting yourself. When ducks brought up that Manu and Barbosa's points can't be compared because the Suns score more point per game, you jumped all over it and said you agreed and that FG% is a better indicator of a player's worth to a team.

So I just gently pointed out that Barbosa's FG% is slightly higher than Manu.

Anyway, I was never comparing Barbosa and Manu, you just completely overreacted to even think that someone could be compared to Manu :lol My whole point was that Finley isn't equal to Barbosa.

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Barbosa puts up very similar numbers to Manu.

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yeah with Manu getting record low minutes this season (27) and Barbosa getting 32 minutes a game :) . I still wish Pop would give him a few more minutes.

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Originally Posted by Kori Ellis

Yes, I'm messing with you because you are contradicting yourself. When ducks brought up that Manu and Barbosa's points can't be compared because the Suns score more point per game, you jumped all over it and said you agreed and that FG% is a better indicator of a player's worth to a team.

So I just gently pointed out that Barbosa's FG% is slightly higher than Manu.

Anyway, I was never comparing Barbosa and Manu, you just completely overreacted to even think that someone could be compared to Manu :lol My whole point was that Finley isn't equal to Barbosa.

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"you jumped all over it and said you agreed and that FG% is a better indicator of a player's worth to a team."

No Kori, I did not contradict myself. Read what I wrote.

Yes, I stated that FG% is often a truer indicator than a just a points per game average. But I never suggested that a player's FG% = the sum total of his worth to a team.

I was making a general point, not in reference to Barbosa (especially since his FG% is decent, as you pointed out) or anyone specific. I was simply saying that, often, way too much is made out of PPG averages. A guy could score 30 points a games while shooting 30%, and people would call him a star and he'd get a sneaker contract. But the reality is that he would be hurting his team, not helping it. I don't see how that contradicts anything else I said before that.

Here's the difference between the Spurs and Suns/Mavs:

Duncan/Ginobili - Have won 2 championships together, including dethroning LA and Detroit
Nash/Stoudemire/Marion - Have shot their opponents' lights' out, but not in tightened playoff defense (SA, Dallas)
Dirk/Howard/Terry - Gave up a 2-0 series lead, including a 13 point lead in the 4th quarter. Sure they've done brilliant things before then (eliminate Spurs) and after (Start 52-11 so far), but why not IN the Finals?

Go ahead, bring in more stuff, but it all narrows down to what I said above.

We'll all have to wait for the playoffs to start. Last year I felt the Spurs chances of winning the whole thing were better than what they are this year. However, I don't recall the Spurs playing this good this late in the season last year. The teams they are playing right now aren't that good though so this 13 game winning streak is kind of tricky. I am not taking credit away from the Spurs though. Winning 13 games in a row is difficult period.

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Originally Posted by Kent_in_Atlanta

Let me be clear… Amare Stoudemire is very excellent. But has he proven he has an additional gear? I don’t think he has yet.

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Didn't Amare hit a 3-point buzzer beater to defeat the Spurs in a playoff game?

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Originally Posted by SpursDynasty

Here's the difference between the Spurs and Suns/Mavs:

Duncan/Ginobili - Have won 2 championships together, including dethroning LA and Detroit
Nash/Stoudemire/Marion - Have shot their opponents' lights' out, but not in tightened playoff defense (SA, Dallas)
Dirk/Howard/Terry - Gave up a 2-0 series lead, including a 13 point lead in the 4th quarter. Sure they've done brilliant things before then (eliminate Spurs) and after (Start 52-11 so far), but why not IN the Finals?

Go ahead, bring in more stuff, but it all narrows down to what I said above.

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People leaving Tony out of Spurs big 3 is ridiculous.

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Originally Posted by Kori Ellis

People leaving Tony out of Spurs big 3 is ridiculous.

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yeah... pendejos...



Kspur, Did you get my text last night? WTF? U missed out on some epic ritas..

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Originally Posted by SequSpur

Kspur, Did you get my text last night? WTF? U missed out on some epic ritas..

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I got them all after the game. My phone was downstairs and I was watching the game and working upstairs.

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Originally Posted by Kori Ellis

I got them all after the game. My phone was downstairs and I was watching the game and working upstairs.

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that's weak. good game though.. huh?

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Originally Posted by SequSpur

that's weak. good game though.. huh?

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Yeah it was damn fun to watch.

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Originally Posted by Kori Ellis

People leaving Tony out of Spurs big 3 is ridiculous.

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Unless we're playing the Bulls. :(

What sets the Spurs apart from the Mavs? Waxahachie..... :lol

What sets the Spurs apart from the Suns? Experience!

ill tell you one thing that separates us from them....defense

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A great player is simply an excellent player who has another gear when it counts the most. It’s the guy for whom the basket seems two feet wider in the final 5:00 of the 4th quarter... or who always come up with the great play in crunch time. A great player is the guy you can almost bank on taking over the game in a crucial situation. Every bone in his body screams “champion”.

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And you believe that this discribes Manu?

Before I take that apart, let me say that It was not Manu that lost the game for the Spurs last year, it was the entire teams inability to play in the OT of a game seven in the playoffs. Manu simply accepted being the sacrifical lamb, when it should have been Duncan, the team leader.

With 20 seconds left in game seven .... We all know what happened. That doesn't sound like what you are discribing in the quote.

When the clock started again and the seconds started to tick away, what happened also doesn't sound like what your discribing. He was rather selfish and ran the clock to nothing before missing the shot (This is where Duncan should have said "My bad". He misses the tip-in)

Alright, so now there is 5 minutes to play in OT ... Did Manu show his "Champion form" by taking over the game? I know, they were tired, but come on, its GAME SEVEN IN OVERTIME ... There is no such thing as "Tired". You have months to catch your breath if you don't produce.

Again, I am not blaming Manu, he was not the only one to vanish in the OT. I am only pointing out for for a "Great player" as you call him, he left a little to be desired after last seasons playoffs (How many threads called for his head?)

Earlier today I stated in another thread that if Michael Finley had played all season as he is playing right now, he would be a legitimate candidate for 6th Man of the Year. I also said I feel that Finley (again, as he's playing now) is comparable to a Jerry Stackhouse or a Leandro Barbosa in terms of overall ability.

That prompted this response from Kori Ellis:

"Many people consider Barbosa the main candidate for 6th Man of the Year. So I think you were discrediting him by comparing him to Finley in overall ability."

So I looked up Finley's stats for the month of March and compared them to the season stats of Barbosa. Here are the numbers:

Barbosa (2006-2007) PER 48 MINUTES: Points 25.9 / FG-48% / 4 rebounds / 6.2 assists / TO 2.9

Finley (month of March) PER 48 MINUTES: Points 26.3 / FG-44% / 4.2 rebounds / 3.1 assists / TO 1.25

Barbosa has averaged 32.4 minutes per game this season. Finley has averaged 21.2 (21.9 in March). Using Finley’s production from March, here’s how Barbosa and Finley shape up over 32.4:

Barbosa's… Avg. 32.4 minutes: 17.5 points / FG-48% / 2.7 rebounds / 4.2 assists / TO 2.0

Finley (month of March) per 32.4 minutes: 17.8 points / FG-44% / 2.8 rebounds / 2.1 assists / TO 0.85

Barbosa’s season FG% is 4 points higher than Finley’s March FG% , but Finley shoots 8 percentage points better at the free-throw line. Also, I think Finley is a rhythm shooter, and I personally believe he would shoot a higher percentage if he were playing more minutes. Barbosa is also 1.4 assists per game better in the above numbers, turns the ball over more than twice as often as Finley has this month.

Don’t get me wrong… I’m not trying to say the Michael Finley is a better player at this point in his career than Barbosa. I don’t believe that’s true.

I am just proving my original statement which was that Michael Finley, as he is playing right now (defined as in the month of March), is comparable to some of the best 6th-men in the league. He just isn’t getting enough minutes to put up the same numbers right now.

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What Sets the Spurs Apart From the Suns and Mavs?

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The Spurs just got the Charles Barkley "kiss" of death on TNT when he predicted that the Spurs will win the championship this year.

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Originally Posted by Dalhoop

And you believe that this discribes Manu?

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In a word... YES.

Apparently you haven't been paying attention. But hey... the playoffs are just around the corner. Sit back and watch.

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Originally Posted by JamStone

The Spurs just got the Charles Barkley "kiss" of death on TNT when he predicted that the Spurs will win the championship this year.

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When did Barkley say that?

Not too terribly worried. He said the same thing the year we beat the Nets in the finals... though, he waffled in the middle of the series, switched his prediction to the Nets, and then switched it back to the Spurs so... I have no idea what that would mean as far as a jynx. I think he confused the hell out of fate until it gave up and decided to let nature take its course. :lol

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Originally Posted by Kent_in_Atlanta

I am just proving my original statement which was that Michael Finley, as he is playing right now (defined as in the month of March), is comparable to some of the best 6th-men in the league. He just isn’t getting enough minutes to put up the same numbers right now.

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As Pop always says, you can't extrapolate stats. There's reasons why certain players don't get more minutes.

Crunching numbers doesn't tell you everything. He has improved since earlier in the season, but he's not playing awesome basketball.

You seem to think he's been incredible lately but he's still horribly inconsistent. A few games ago, he shot 2-for-12 and was invisible. He's limited defensively. And no matter how you watch to stretch it, he has only been getting 2 rebounds and 1 assist in 20 mpg.

That all being said, if he can just get 10 points a game consistent in the postseason that would be huge for the Spurs.

But mainly in the playoffs, all of the Big 3 need to be Big.

Hmmm... the Finley thread got absorbed into this one. I kind of thought "The play of Michael Finley" was a separate subject from "What sets the Spurs apart from the Suns and Mavs", even though I referenced conversations from this thread... but it's your show Kori.

Do you still think I'm a lunatic for saying what I said about Finley's current level of play?

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In a word... YES.

Apparently you haven't been paying attention. But hey... the playoffs are just around the corner. Sit back and watch.

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So your saying that what he did in the final minutes of the most important game for his team in the playoffs, means less then what he doing on the court in game number ... what ... sixty some-odd?

This is a first for a Spurs poster ... most of them always say "Its the playoffs that count"

Way to step away from the croud.

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Originally Posted by Kent_in_Atlanta

Hmmm... the Finley thread got absorbed into this one. I kind of thought "The play of Michael Finley" was a separate subject from "What sets the Spurs apart from the Suns and Mavs", even though I referenced conversations from this thread... but it's your show Kori.

Do you still think I'm a lunatic for saying what I said about Finley's current level of play?

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I never said you were a lunatic. He has improved his play, but he's not good enough these days to play the major minutes that it would take to make him a 6th Man candidate, so you can't really compare him to players that play 30+ mpg. And he's very inconsistent.

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Originally Posted by Kori Ellis

As Pop always says, you can't extrapolate stats. There's reasons why certain players don't get more minutes.

Crunching numbers doesn't tell you everything. He has improved since earlier in the season, but he's not playing awesome basketball.

You seem to think he's been incredible lately but he's still horribly inconsistent. A few games ago, he shot 2-for-12 and was invisible. He's limited defensively. And no matter how you watch to stretch it, he has only been getting 2 rebounds and 1 assist in 20 mpg.

That all being said, if he can just get 10 points a game consistent in the postseason that would be huge for the Spurs.

But mainly in the playoffs, all of the Big 3 need to be Big.

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Finley has been averaging 12 points a game in only 21 minutes a game. I think that's pretty darn good. He's also shot a respectable FG%, and has brought a lot of energy to the floor.

The reason Finley isn't getting more minutes is because he shares the 2/3 spots on the floor with Bruce Bowen and Manu Ginobili (who will get the lion's share of the minutes) as well as Brent Barry.

If that weren't the case, the way Finley's playing now... he'd be getting sifnificantly more minutes.

And yes, I remember the 2-12. But that also means that he must have played pretty damn well the rest of the month to get his March FG% up to 44%. Not easy to do when you have a 2/12 in one of those 7 games.

Finley IS playing at a fairly high level right now.

low post game. spurs play inside- out

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Originally Posted by Dalhoop

So your saying that what he did in the final minutes of the most important game for his team in the playoffs, means less then what he doing on the court in game number ... what ... sixty some-odd?

This is a first for a Spurs poster ... most of them always say "Its the playoffs that count"

Way to step away from the croud.

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No. I'm saying you weren't paying attention to what Manu's done in the playoffs over the past couple of years. And while he committed that well documented stupid foul... I seem to remember Manu taking over that game to bring the Spurs back from a large deficit, to nearly pull it out.

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Originally Posted by Kent_in_Atlanta

Finley IS playing at a fairly high level right now.

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2-for-11 from 3 in the last three games. :td

6-for-23 from 3 over the last five games :td

Not high enough.

He's playing better, but he's not playing at a "high level".

Anyway, that's all I have to say on the subject. I don't really have enough passion for or against Michael Finley to keep typing about it. :lol

Hopefully he becomes more consistent and can provide 10ppg or so and shoot a good percentage consisently in the postseason.

Quote:

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No. I'm saying you weren't paying attention to what Manu's done in the playoffs over the past couple of years. And while he committed that well documented stupid foul... I seem to remember Manu taking over that game to bring the Spurs back from a large deficit, to nearly pull it out.

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But in you post you said

"It’s the guy for whom the basket seems two feet wider in the final 5:00 of the 4th quarter... or who always come up with the great play in crunch time."

That line, doesn't discribe his play in the most important game to be played by his team last year. Do "Great players" vanish when needed the most? Was the Basket "two feet wider" on his last shot? Was his foul a "great play in crunch time"?

Your words, not mine.

Great players do not vanish in the biggest games. If you give him props for what he did the year before, you have to take away for what he did last year. In fact, he didn't "Vanish" he was very visible in the final 20 seconds of last years playoffs.

His visibilty was not what you discribe as a Great player

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tony Montana

"Amigo, the only thing in this world that gives orders is balls. Balls. You got that?"

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Of course, naturally... I'll see all these good things about Finley, and he'll have a 1/10 night. If that happens, I take personally responsibility. :lol

a couple of games

i wouldnt call manu a great player anymore...he sure is a very dangerous player but i dont think anyone would take him over amare or jho

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Originally Posted by confined

i wouldnt call manu a great player anymore...he sure is a very dangerous player but i dont think anyone would take him over amare or jho

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Have you been watching Manu over the past 3-4 weeks? I'm really not trying to be a smartass, but I suspect you haven't. I don't watch all the Maverick's games, so I wouldn't expect you to be tuning into every Spurs game.

It's not just us bloggers... I've heard several players and coaches comment that Manu is playing at 2005 finals level.

And when you use the word "anymore", it kind of puzzles me. Manu's only 29, and he hasn't had any major injuries or surgeries in his career.

Really... no bravado here. I really think you will see in the playoffs that he is a truly great player.

Manu was never a great player. Always just a very good role player. Is this thread a joke? Manu a great player? LOL..c'mon.

no one in their right mind would take Manu over guys like marion/amare or say even Howard.

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Originally Posted by The_Game

Manu was never a great player. Always just a very good role player. Is this thread a joke? Manu a great player? LOL..c'mon.

no one in their right mind would take Manu over guys like marion/amare or say even Howard.

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For one game .... maybe. .... maybe yes ....Hell Yeah!!!

Golden State is 30-36. I would consider them a bad team. Didn't they beat Dallas twice?

I didn't know the word "great" was considered superior to the word "excellent" in the English language....but whatever.

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Originally Posted by mavs4ever

they are a playoff team in the west.

thats not a bad team.



what are the bucks, 12-13th in the east?

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How about the Clippers? They beat both Dallas and Phoenix.

Atlanta, Philadelphia, and Seattle beat Phoenix this year. Are they not bad teams?

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Originally Posted by mavs4ever

they are a playoff team in the west.

thats not a bad team.



what are the bucks, 12-13th in the east?

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Our game wasn't over with 4 minutes left in the 4th.

Your game was over with 4 minutes left in the first half.

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Originally Posted by Cry Havoc

Our game wasn't over with 4 minutes left in the 4th.

Your game was over with 4 minutes left in the first half.

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Man you're REALLY reaching.