Re: Ludden: Celtics finally figure out a way to defeat Spurs
You can't compare Mavs serie with this game.
Celtics PF was Paul Pierce, Mavs PF was Dirk. Elson/Oberto/Bonner are more mobile than Rasho/Nazr but they still can't guard swingmen that aren't offensive liability.
Pop hasn't another solution than smallball when they play against a team with 4 PG/SG/SF on the floor at the same time and no one is an offensive liability.
About Mavs :
I don't think Spurs will go small against Mavs as long as Dirk will play PF. However if Mavs go with this kind of lineup : Harris/Terry/Stack/Howard/a big, Spurs won't have another solution that going small. If Mavs go small by playing George at PF, I hope Spurs will try to keep 2 bigs and put one on George who isn't a good offensive player.
Re: Ludden: Celtics finally figure out a way to defeat Spurs
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kori Ellis
I know small ball worked to get them back in the game tonight.
But it freakin' sucks that the bigs aren't good enough to keep one of them on floor :pctoss
Small ball isn't going to work over big stretches in the postseason, the Spurs will get worked over on the glass. :(
Come on just one of Elson, Oberto, Horry, Bonner, Ely, or Butler, please step up.
Exactly...we have count it SIX potential Bigs we could use, I find it hard to believe that not one of them are good enough to keep on the floor. How is that possible? Maybe it's time to start looking at Pop and his coaching these players than the players themselves.
Oberto/Elson we all know suck. What about Ely, Bonner...hell even Butler? Yes, Butler seems to have a bad attitude according to everyone, but you know what? Outside of the Spurs org every team has a player like that! Give him playing time and responsibility and see how he responds. And what about Ely? Wasn't he supposed to be this proclaimed post-scorer? Why not use him? Or Bonner...he does rebounding, 3 point shooting, energizing....
We have SIX potential bigs that Pop could be using....if he's trying to say that ALL six suck and arent' good enough to be given minutes forcing him to go small than he has to look at himself or at Presti and the Spurs recruiting/scouting to see the problem. :rolleyes
Re: Ludden: Celtics finally figure out a way to defeat Spurs
Nazr or Rasho couldn't do shit against Dirk last year in the playoffs. Game 2 we played our bigs and got killed by what, 20 points? The refs put a magic forcefield around him so that no one was allowed to touch him. Versus Miami the refs let Posey and Haslem get tough with him. I know I'm not objective but Dirk seemed to have a free ride with the refs when we played him.
If Pop was able to adjust to reality we would be in better shape. Oberto will be useless against the Mavs in the playoffs so I don't see why he should play again. It's late but we need to see what Ely can do. We need another low post scoring threat. We need someone out there who Dirk has to guard in the post.
Anyway, I know I'm looking ahead and rambling, but right now the substitutions are odd and show confusion or desperation.
Re: Ludden: Celtics finally figure out a way to defeat Spurs
Some of you people are dumb blaming the loss on Pop. The players make the plays and the Spurs played flat throughout most of the game. Hell, the Dream Team would have lost this game if the came out without purpose. Blame the players for the crappy performance not the coaches.
Re: Ludden: Celtics finally figure out a way to defeat Spurs
Quote:
Originally Posted by whottt
I think their numbers would improve if they weren't matched up against Forwards that are bigger and outweigh them.
And I know Bruce isn't a good rebounder...but usually you can see why he isn't...he flat out dogged it tonight on the offensive glass..he stood there and let Duncan fight for them by himself.
I've never been as pissed at Bruce as I was during tonights game. In fact...I've never been pissed at Bruce before I don't think...but his rebounding total tonight was due to plain old lack of effort...go watch the 4th again...you'll see at least 3 posession in the final 5 mins or so where Bruce clearly can get the O board thanks to Duncan's efforts and Celtics at the top of the key beat him to it without him even taking a step to get the board.
He's just standing there waiting to shoot his open 3 while posession is in doubt...
He's standing there 23' from the basket while the rest of the team is fighting 5 guys. Other teams ignore him, especially since he's shooting so badly. No wonder we keep getting beat on rebounds. And rebounds, over time, usually determine which team wins.
Re: Ludden: Celtics finally figure out a way to defeat Spurs
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kori Ellis
Finley and Barry are too. Add that to Elson and Oberto averaging less than 5 rebounds a game, it isn't a good a thing.
Ely is average 1.5 rebounds per 4 minutes. Maybe we should use him. :drunk
And Finley and Barry's lack of D kills in the small ball lineup.
Say Ely play 11 mins. a game, a reasoable but not going to hapen total. 1.5x 11=16.5! That more than the Spurs bigs had at the begining of the 4th., or something like that. 16.5 rebs....why the hell is this guy not starting. I know he needs his lungs and stuff, but I think he could play 11 mins. then again, i think my math is wrong...yeah it is. per 4 mins... oh never mind stupid me. it'd be more like well 12 mins...at 8 he'd have 3...so at 12 mins he have 4.5....wow and I said 16.5. :lol Still as a starter...
Re: Ludden: Celtics finally figure out a way to defeat Spurs
Quote:
Originally Posted by weebo
Some of you people are dumb blaming the loss on Pop. The players make the plays and the Spurs played flat throughout most of the game. Hell, the Dream Team would have lost this game if the came out without purpose. Blame the players for the crappy performance not the coaches.
I think the Dream Team could have played without heart and still won.
Re: Ludden: Celtics finally figure out a way to defeat Spurs
as pop's coaching regresses, so do the spurs
Pop's idiotic lineups are going to bury this team
It's already bad enough that we're far worse than last year while Dallas has significantly approved.
We still lack rebounding, consistent interior defense (TD alone isn't enough to keep people out of the paint) and the fact that our jumpshots are virtually non existent
With all of those factored in, the last thign we need is Pop making foolish substitutions and his complete lack of faith in the bigs.
I would rather lose with Elson/Bonner in the floor on crunch time than to lose with small ball.
Re: Ludden: Celtics finally figure out a way to defeat Spurs
Yeah, I'd rather lose by 25 points with ineffective big men than by 6 points with small ball :rolleyes
Don't you think Pop has thought of this already? If we're all so smart, why aren't we being hired as any head coaches? For good reason -- Pop knows what he has in his bigs, a bunch of scrubs. Give Butler/Bonner/Ely a chance? They are all scrub players! It's sad, but it's true. If Elson/Oberto can't get it done, there's no way those others will.
There comes a point where you have to stop being stubborn about small ball and realize that without it we would have never taken the Mavs to 7 games. Without it we never would have closed in on Boston.
I'd like to have faith that Elson will be awesome in the playoffs, but the reality is that he is a foul sponge which stems from his poor defense and inability to block shots. Oberto can't jump. Ely/Bonner/Horry are slow.
What ever happens all depends on Elson and if he decides to pick up 3 fouls in 2 minutes.
Re: Ludden: Celtics finally figure out a way to defeat Spurs
Ely is slow? :lol Dude, just admit you haven't watched him play.
Re: Ludden: Celtics finally figure out a way to defeat Spurs
Quote:
Originally Posted by sabar
Yeah, I'd rather lose by 25 points with ineffective big men than by 6 points with small ball :rolleyes
Don't you think Pop has thought of this already? If we're all so smart, why aren't we being hired as any head coaches? For good reason -- Pop knows what he has in his bigs, a bunch of scrubs. Give Butler/Bonner/Ely a chance? They are all scrub players! It's sad, but it's true. If Elson/Oberto can't get it done, there's no way those others will.
There comes a point where you have to stop being stubborn about small ball and realize that without it we would have never taken the Mavs to 7 games. Without it we never would have closed in on Boston.
I'd like to have faith that Elson will be awesome in the playoffs, but the reality is that he is a foul sponge which stems from his poor defense and inability to block shots. Oberto can't jump. Ely/Bonner/Horry are slow.
What ever happens all depends on Elson and if he decides to pick up 3 fouls in 2 minutes.
So basically...without Finley, we can't beat the Celtics...
Got it.
And you think this team will win a championship this year if that is true?
If a team with Parker, Manu and Duncan on it can't beat a team that lost 18 in a row without Michael Finley playing PF, um scratch that, can't beat them even with Finley playing PF...how can you rationalize this team is a title contender?
Who had enormous input into the building of this roster?
Who traded Steve Kerr away...and then traded for him back?
Who had to get owned by Peter Vescey before he'd make a simple substitution to win a championship?
Pop's not a coaching genius...
He's got 3 All Stars...one of whom owned his ass in the last Olympics.... without Tim Duncan, without Tony Parker...without gasp...Michael Finley...and believe it or not...with Oberto.
Re: Ludden: Celtics finally figure out a way to defeat Spurs
God...where would Duncan and Manu be without the coaching genius that is Gregg Poppovich...probably sacking groceries or something.
I mean shit...we can't beat the Celtics or Bobcats on our own homecourt unless Finley is playing C...
So basically...like Rasho and Nazr before him...Elson is the worst player in NBA history. Not deserving of being on the court in any way shape or form...we are incapable of winning a game with him on the court...
Got it. Thank god for Pop's genius.
Re: Ludden: Celtics finally figure out a way to defeat Spurs
In a combined 27 minutes Oberto and Elson were - 17. But I think Bonner should have played more. I don't understand why Pop took him out in the 4th.
Re: Ludden: Celtics finally figure out a way to defeat Spurs
Quote:
Originally Posted by whottt
God...where would Duncan and Manu be without the coaching genius that is Gregg Poppovich...probably sacking groceries or something.
I mean shit...we can't beat the Celtics or Bobcats on our own homecourt unless Finley is playing C...
So basically...like Rasho and Nazr before him...Elson is the worst player in NBA history. Not deserving of being on the court in any way shape or form...we are incapable of winning a game with him on the court...
Got it. Thank god for Pop's genius.
Yes, I'm sure Pop is playing small just to piss whott off. That must be it !
:rolleyes
Re: Ludden: Celtics finally figure out a way to defeat Spurs
This loss is actually pretty heartbreaking to me. I know the Celtics aren't exactly the Spurs' greatest rival, but that was one helluva streak. Guess Tim owns Boston no longer. Sucks. Harsher was how the Spurs expend so much effort and energy to come back from 19 down, take the lead, at home, coming off a shitty loss, playing a shitty team...and still lose. Very f-ing nice. Seriously, they were pathetic. All those missed easy ass layups.
Re: Ludden: Celtics finally figure out a way to defeat Spurs
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1Parker1
Exactly...we have count it SIX potential Bigs we could use, I find it hard to believe that not one of them are good enough to keep on the floor. How is that possible? Maybe it's time to start looking at Pop and his coaching these players than the players themselves.
Oberto/Elson we all know suck. What about Ely, Bonner...hell even Butler? Yes, Butler seems to have a bad attitude according to everyone, but you know what? Outside of the Spurs org every team has a player like that! Give him playing time and responsibility and see how he responds. And what about Ely? Wasn't he supposed to be this proclaimed post-scorer? Why not use him? Or Bonner...he does rebounding, 3 point shooting, energizing....
We have SIX potential bigs that Pop could be using....if he's trying to say that ALL six suck and arent' good enough to be given minutes forcing him to go small than he has to look at himself or at Presti and the Spurs recruiting/scouting to see the problem. :rolleyes
add rasho and nazr to list, 8 bigs not good enough???...i dont think so.
like i said before pop coaching is not good enough.
Re: Ludden: Celtics finally figure out a way to defeat Spurs
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kori Ellis
I know small ball worked to get them back in the game tonight.
But it freakin' sucks that the bigs aren't good enough to keep one of them on floor :pctoss
Small ball isn't going to work over big stretches in the postseason, the Spurs will get worked over on the glass. :(
Come on just one of Elson, Oberto, Horry, Bonner, Ely, or Butler, please step up.
Agreed. This is very worrisome.
Really, it's the only thing that worries me about these last two losses. Elson has shown the most potential out of all those guys - what happened to him against the C's. Was he in foul trouble, or was that in the Bucks game? I can't remember.
Re: Ludden: Celtics finally figure out a way to defeat Spurs
I think Elson has been playing tentative of late because every time he does anything aggressive on the court he gets whistled for a foul.
Re: Ludden: Celtics finally figure out a way to defeat Spurs
Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronstampler
I think Elson has been playing tentative of late because every time he does anything aggressive on the court he gets whistled for a foul.
That's because at age 31, he's just now learning how to play D without reaching in. I'm not sure if he will always be a foul machine, or he can work through it.
