Flopping keeps cropping up

Flopping keeps cropping up
The NBA art of simulating an offensive foul may be hated, but it's unlikely to go away
Doug Haller
The Arizona Republic
Mar. 18, 2007 12:00 AM
http://www.azcentral.com/sports/suns...aflop0318.html

The NBA is a scorer's league. Everything favors the offense: the rules, the officiating, the shot clock. It's a jump shooter's game. A penetrator's paradise.

He flops. And, oh, how the masses cry foul.

Backed into a corner, or maybe the lane, today's defender does the only thing he can to make up the difference.

"It's definitely frustrating because guys don't play defense no more," Suns center Amaré Stoudemire said. "They call it smart basketball."

Flopping - the art of feigning an offensive foul - is nothing new, it just seems that way. Guys are falling backward - "like they were shot with a gun," Suns reserve Marcus Banks said - at what seems like a record pace.

Earlier this year, Stu Jackson, the NBA's executive vice president for basketball operations, said the league might consider penalizing floppers. It's not an unprecedented notion. FIBA, the governing body of international basketball, implemented a rule in 2004 that lets referees whistle technical fouls for flopping.

"But I don't think it's ever been called," said Craig Miller, spokesman for USA Basketball.

Regulating flopping in the NBA, where nearly everything moves with blinding speed, would be almost impossible, most say. Just determining the difference between a charge and block is hard enough.

"Sometimes it's just insinuating a foul," Suns coach Mike D'Antoni said. "A guy hits you and you overreact, but he did foul you. So is that a flop?"

Only the defenders know for sure and they rarely fess up, but that doesn't stop reputations from being formed.

The Chicago Bulls actually include an opponent's floppers in their scouting reports, right alongside the team's best three-point shooters.

"There are guys who take pride in their flopping," said Bulls forward P.J. Brown, a 14-year veteran.

Asked to name the best, Brown thought a few seconds.

"Dennis Rodman was one of the great floppers," he said. "The way he played defense against Shaq and Karl Malone, he had to flop because he was only 6 foot 8, 210 pounds. He had to do whatever he could to get an edge. And Vlade (Divac) was very good. He was probably No. 1 of all time."

And today?

"The Collins twins, Jarron and Jason, I think they might go home in the off-season and work on their flopping."

Suns veteran Jalen Rose added a few more names. Manu Ginobili of the San Antonio Spurs. Derek Fisher of the Utah Jazz.

Anyone else?

"Half our team flops," Rose said. "I'm not going to name nobody. We might need one of those calls some day, so I'm not going to throw anyone under the bus."

No need. Raja Bell is aware of his reputation. He keeps a journal for ESPN.com and often answers questions from readers. Among the first came from a basketball player named Calvin in Los Angeles, who wanted to know the secret to Bell's "flopping success."

"Yep. I've been called a flopper," Bell responded. "But I consider a flop to be when you create something out of thin air - when there's no contact and you lay down anyway."

The Suns guard elaborated after a recent practice.

"Here's the deal, man," he said. "If you got someone barreling into your chest, and you try to stand up and be a tough guy with him, very rarely is an offensive foul called. The only time you ever get a foul called is if you go down, so why would I stand there and try to man-up with somebody when I'm not going to get anything but a defensive foul?"

According to 82games.com, a Web site of NBA statistics, Bell led the league in charges taken last year with 76. This year, he ranks among the leaders along with teammate Steve Nash. Both guards aren't afraid to risk their bodies. Nor are they afraid to fall after contact.

"The guys who have to flop, that's the way the players have adjusted to the rule changes," Nash said. "It's not the game in the pure sense, but whatever rules they make, guys adjust and find an equilibrium."

The NBA has tried to eliminate hand-checking, but some think the initiative has gone to extremes. Astonished by the number of fouls whistled in a recent first half, Boston coach Doc Rivers asked an official if the league had implemented a new point of emphasis in which he wasn't aware.

"And I wasn't being sarcastic," Rivers said. "I have a son in college and their guard play is far more physical (than what goes on in the NBA)."

"This game is built around the offensive player," Suns forward James Jones said. "Guys are going to the basket, they get to jump into defensive players and a foul is called. If you're a defender, flopping is one of the only real ways you can get back and put doubt in an offensive player's mind."

Jones doesn't consider it cheating, but the league isn't sure. To help prevent flopping, the NBA added a 4-foot arc around the basket. To draw a charge, a defensive player has to be standing outside the arc when contact is made.

At least one former player, however, insists players can police themselves.

"You know how you stopped all the flopping back in the day? You stepped on them or you fell on top of them," former Celtics forward Cedric Maxwell said. "That's what they need to do today. That would make guys think twice about it."

And still there are others who think the league is looking the wrong direction.

"To be honest, I think the flopping problem is on offense," Nash said. "Guys dribble into a guy and they barely touch and they flail their arms around, trying to get a call. More than anything, that's the flopping that needs to go."

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Originally Posted by TMTTRIO

And still there are others who think the league is looking the wrong direction.

"To be honest, I think the flopping problem is on offense," Nash said. "Guys dribble into a guy and they barely touch and they flail their arms around, trying to get a call. More than anything, that's the flopping that needs to go."

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Funny. That kind of flopping (which I term flailing) is what Duncan and Dirk do a lot. :lol

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TMTTRIO

And still there are others who think the league is looking the wrong direction.

"To be honest, I think the flopping problem is on offense," Nash said. "Guys dribble into a guy and they barely touch and they flail their arms around, trying to get a call. More than anything, that's the flopping that needs to go."

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If Nash is not directly talking about Rip Hamilton......

2 things come to mind after reading this-

1. :lol :lol :lol @ Amare complaining that other teams don't play defense.

2. The locals here hate Manu with a passion. They call him all kinds of names, but it is usually 'thug' instead of 'flopper'.

Speaking of Flopping.......Devin Harris is looking to be the King of Flopping. He gets the most bogus offensive fouls for a non-All star that I've ever seen.

Add Milwaukee's Andrew Bogut to the list of didn't-quite-get-there floppers.

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Originally Posted by bonesinaz

2. The locals here hate Manu with a passion. They call him all kinds of names, but it is usually 'thug' instead of 'flopper'.

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They call Manu a thug? :lmao

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Originally Posted by SAtown

They call Manu a thug? :lmao

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When I read other forums, I find that a lot of NBA fans in other cities at least call Manu "dirty". :lol

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Originally Posted by Kori Ellis

When I read other forums, I find that a lot of NBA fans in other cities at least call Manu "dirty". :lol

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Yeah, but there's no denying that EVERY team would kill to have him on their team.

Makes you think that if they just let them play some semblance of defense again flopping might become less necessary. It would never be gone but it wouldn't be as bad as it is.

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Originally Posted by 1Parker1

Speaking of Flopping.......Devin Harris is looking to be the King of Flopping. He gets the most bogus offensive fouls for a non-All star that I've ever seen.

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He learned from Manu

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Originally Posted by SAtown

They call Manu a thug? :lmao

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Yes. They are still blaming him for Barbosa's injury. They say all the Spurs are thugs :lol , but that Manu is especially bad.

How does Amare Stoudemire provide an accurate viewpoint from a time where people used to play defense?

"The Collins twins, Jarron and Jason, I think they might go home in the off-season and work on their flopping."

:lmao
I've seen jason collins take charges on Iverson, boykins and T.J Ford and believe me that was a thing of beauty.
And I remember telling my wife that he definetely has been working on it.
________
FlexDOLL4U live

amares flop against TP during the 05 playoffs is a classic

I agree with Kori about flailing and I think it's necessary. Like flopping, you don't flail if there's no contact, but if there was you have to sell it. The call isn't coming otherwise. David Robinson used to get raked across the arms when Karl Malone would go for the strip, but he didn't sell it and wouldn't get that call.

There's a big difference between exaggerating existing contact to get the call (which I think is okay) and just flopping with no (very little) contact to try to fool the refs. But it's very hard in game action to tell the difference. We, as fans, complain when we see the no contact circumstance because we can see the replays. But I have no idea how a ref is going to just call a no contact flop in live game action unless it's blatant.

There's rumblings that they are going to start calling techs on flops/flails next year. That would be a hard thing to take.

LOL at Divac. His dirty reputation is uncomparable in the NBA.

Devin Harris flops before he's touched! I saw that yesterday so many times against Detroit, that I was hoping they would give him a hard foul! Little punkass!

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Originally Posted by Kori Ellis

When I read other forums, I find that a lot of NBA fans in other cities at least call Manu "dirty". :lol

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i'm sure if manu didn't have any rings he wouldn't be called dirty. he would be called devin harris :stirpot::ihit

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Originally Posted by Viva Las Espuelas

i'm sure if manu didn't have any rings he wouldn't be called dirty. he would be called devin harris :stirpot::ihit

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:lol

Most charge calls involve a bit of a flop to help sell the charge, but it's usually obvious when there is no charge but still a flop...

Harris had a borderline flop in the Pistons games, but generally he's pretty good at getting legit charges called....

This guy was the master.

http://www.unodc.org/images/odccp/ambassadors_divac.jpg

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Originally Posted by Kori Ellis

There's a big difference between exaggerating existing contact to get the call (which I think is okay) and just flopping with no (very little) contact to try to fool the refs. But it's very hard in game action to tell the difference. We, as fans, complain when we see the no contact circumstance because we can see the replays. But I have no idea how a ref is going to just call a no contact flop in live game action unless it's blatant.

There's rumblings that they are going to start calling techs on flops/flails next year. That would be a hard thing to take.

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I propose instantaneous instant replay.
Along with post game reviews.
Flagrant flops penalized by 20 game suspensions. See how long the flagrant floppees (Derek Fisher, Dennis Rodman etc) keep it up after that.

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Originally Posted by Fabbs

I propose instantaneous instant replay.
Along with post game reviews.
Flagrant flops penalized by 20 game suspensions. See how long the flagrant floppees (Derek Fisher, Dennis Rodman etc) keep it up after that.

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So you want to see Manu out for 20 games??? :)

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Originally Posted by Kori Ellis

So you want to see Manu out for 20 games??? :)

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Oh no she didn't... :elephant

Yes, let's see how long Dennis Rodman keeps up his flopping in all the NBA game he will be playing in the future.

:shootme

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Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

Yes, let's see how long Dennis Rodman keeps up his flopping in all the NBA game he will be playing in the future.

:shootme

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He hasn't been given an offer for some time.
Doubt he will ever get another offer.

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Originally Posted by Kori Ellis

So you want to see Manu out for 20 games??? :)

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If it's a Derek Fisher style flop absolutely.
Fair is fair.
Get this crap out of the game.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fabbs

I propose instantaneous instant replay.
Along with post game reviews.
Flagrant flops penalized by 20 game suspensions. See how long the flagrant floppees (Derek Fisher, Dennis Rodman etc) keep it up after that.

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Aren't the floppees the onces getting flopped against? :p:

What team does Rodman play for now? I wasn't aware that he was back in the league. :rolleyes

It reminds me a funny video about Italian National Soccer Team practicing flopping.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Z3ZJ...ian%20football

Maybe we should recruit their coach.

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Originally Posted by mabber

Aren't the floppees the onces getting flopped against? :p:

What team does Rodman play for now? I wasn't aware that he was back in the league. :rolleyes

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Rodman is not currently in the NBA.

His flagrant flopping vs Seattle in the Finals was not even basketball. While not the 1st flopper, this was the first time marketing forces put up with consistent flagrant flopping, with De'reek Fisher in 2000-2002 being another.

I really hate when people discuss floppers and then they forget about Wade...

Here you have a taste of the greatest flopper in the league right now

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aySGUzzxjGE

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Originally Posted by bonesinaz

Yes. They are still blaming him for Barbosa's injury. They say all the Spurs are thugs :lol , but that Manu is especially bad.

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That's ridiculous!! Manu had nothing to do with what happened to that damn horse!