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Our big 3 vs Mavs big 3
It seems to me that our big 3 (manu, td, tp) are actually less consistent than the Mavs big 3 (dirk, terry, howard)
Very rarely do we have the spurs big 3 ALL playing well in the same game.
Usually its 2 out of the 3 playing solid during a game
But with the Mavs, 90% if the time it seems like all 3 of their big 3 shows up with the occassional off game
Considering how much of a question mark our bench is to begin with, do you guys all consider it a given our big 3 will play well?
Manu tends to be a bit streaky at times, though his 2005 performance was an incredible run
and Parker is improving by the year, so here's to hoping he steps up better than ever in the playoffs
So should we meet the Mavs, are our big 3 of any concern to anyone or is it the bench that will be the deciding factor? Which I think it probably will be
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Re: Our big 3 vs Mavs big 3
Actually the Mavs Big 6 are more consistent than the Spurs Big 6. In other words Dallas' 4-5-6th best players are > the Spurs 4-5-6 best players.
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Re: Our big 3 vs Mavs big 3
I don't think the Mavs "big 3" are all on 90% of the time. Howard seems to be the most inconsistent, and the most frustrating about him is he's great in the 1st quarter and not great in the 4th for some reason...
Stackhouse is really part of the "big 4" IMO...
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Re: Our big 3 vs Mavs big 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikos
Actually the Mavs Big 6 are more consistent than the Spurs Big 6. In other words Dallas' 4-5-6th best players are > the Spurs 4-5-6 best players.
that's a good point
I was able to rewatch some games from last year's playoff series and I almost forgot how bad our D was for most of that series. For all the talk about who needs to step up, allowing the Mavs to hit 100 virtually every game (though some games went to OT) isn't going to cut it
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Re: Our big 3 vs Mavs big 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by LEONARD
I don't think the Mavs "big 3" are all on 90% of the time. Howard seems to be the most inconsistent, and the most frustrating about him is he's great in the 1st quarter and not great in the 4th for some reason...
Stackhouse is really part of the "big 4" IMO...
Well i was hoping Mav fans would post too in this thread, because I don't see too much inconsistency amongst their big 3. With the Spurs you know what you'll get with TD, Tp often shows up, but Manu is either really on or really off.
Also, at least with Howard, if his shots aren't falling he still rebounds better than anyone on the Spurs not named Tim Duncan. So he can stillcontribute efficiently.
Parker on the other hand, if he resorts to his outside shooting and those shots seem to fall less and less often for him as the season wears on, then he's rendered as virtually useless if he can't get into the lane.
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Re: Our big 3 vs Mavs big 3
Yea, when you take the next 3, (Barry, Finley, Elson), vs there next 3 (Harris, Stack, Damp) there is no contest
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Re: Our big 3 vs Mavs big 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amuseddaysleeper
that's a good point
I was able to rewatch some games from last year's playoff series and I almost forgot how bad our D was for most of that series. For all the talk about who needs to step up, allowing the Mavs to hit 100 virtually every game (though some games went to OT) isn't going to cut it
I think, if they meet, the key matchup will be Harris trying to stay with TP. The Mavs really have nobody that can guard Duncan and the Spurs have no one that can guard Dirk (assuming that Bowen will be on Howard most of the time) so that's a wash IMO. If Harris can somehow keep TP from making so many layups then the Mavs should be in good shape.
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Re: Our big 3 vs Mavs big 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by LEONARD
I don't think the Mavs "big 3" are all on 90% of the time. Howard seems to be the most inconsistent, and the most frustrating about him is he's great in the 1st quarter and not great in the 4th for some reason...
Stackhouse is really part of the "big 4" IMO...
I agree. The Spurs really had a hard time matching up with Stack. I think they used Barry on him and it didn't work out too well.
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Re: Our big 3 vs Mavs big 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by mabber
I think, if they meet, the key matchup will be Harris trying to stay with TP. The Mavs really have nobody that can guard Duncan and the Spurs have no one that can guard Dirk (assuming that Bowen will be on Howard most of the time) so that's a wash IMO. If Harris can somehow keep TP from making so many layups then the Mavs should be in good shape.
Harris is a big key for you guys because our back up PG is a mess this year and will be a big point of emphasis for the Spurs in the offseason. Duncan and Dirk will cancel eachother out, both go for 25-30 every game of the series, same as last time. Key will be how well do Manu and Tony play compared to Terry and Howard and whose bench steps up the most.
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Re: Our big 3 vs Mavs big 3
Shit, if you are gonna say the Mavs 3,4,5 > Spurs 5, you are basically saying the Mavs > Spurs period. Because their bench is every bit as good as ours.......younger also.
:(
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Re: Our big 3 vs Mavs big 3
top 3 we're pretty even. Undercover brother and Carlton are pretty inconsistent.
but yeah, Stack + Devin + Dampier are better than our next 3.
still, we have a great chance vs. them.
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Re: Our big 3 vs Mavs big 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by lebomb
Shit, if you are gonna say the Mavs 3,4,5 > Spurs 5, you are basically saying the Mavs > Spurs period. Because their bench is every bit as good as ours.......younger also.
:(
:lol
well I don't think it was any secret Mavs > Spurs but it's not like the Spurs have no chance of winning the series. It's just gonna be a very very tough series.
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Re: Our big 3 vs Mavs big 3
Key matchup for me is going to be one of our bigs (Fab/Elson) on Dirk. If they can just put a hand in his face that will be fine, they dont have to necessarily be a "Dirk Stopper". If we can get at least that from our bigs it changes the whole outlook with Bruce free to guard one of the other threats thats more his size.
A big on Dirk that can run the floor and get a hand up is going to be a huge key.
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Re: Our big 3 vs Mavs big 3
Yea, but I didnt even mention the Dirk slayer, Matt mother f-ing Bonner
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Re: Our big 3 vs Mavs big 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by mardigan
Yea, but I didnt even mention the Dirk slayer, Matt mother f-ing Bonner
Won't he only be in the game when the Mavs put in their own spare, slow white guy (Croshere)? :lol
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Re: Our big 3 vs Mavs big 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by mabber
Won't he only be in the game when the Mavs put in their own spare, slow white guy (Croshere)? :lol
And then the courts will clear, and the 2 pastiest guys in the league shall battle to the death
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Re: Our big 3 vs Mavs big 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by mardigan
And then the courts will clear, and the 2 pastiest guys in the league shall battle to the death
:lol
My money would be on Bonner.
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Re: Our big 3 vs Mavs big 3
:lol And mine on Croshere
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Re: Our big 3 vs Mavs big 3
To think the Mavs Big 3 are on 90% of the time, probably means you don't watch enough Mavs games :lol
In his last five games, JHoward has had games of seven points (2 for 9 shooting in 40 minutes) and twelve points.
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Re: Our big 3 vs Mavs big 3
key to the series
reboards and our three headed monster (BonElsBerto)
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Re: Our big 3 vs Mavs big 3
Keys to Victory
1. Kori Distracts Pop
2. TimVP sits in pops chair and does some quick substitutions to get rid of small ball before Pop turns around.
3. repeat from step one.
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Re: Our big 3 vs Mavs big 3
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Re: Our big 3 vs Mavs big 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kori Ellis
To think the Mavs Big 3 are on 90% of the time, probably means you don't watch enough Mavs games :lol
In his last five games, JHoward has had games of seven points (2 for 9 shooting in 40 minutes) and twelve points.
True but it is not like Manu and Tony are always playing well together either. Usually it is Tim and one or the other backing him up with good play.
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Re: Our big 3 vs Mavs big 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kori Ellis
To think the Mavs Big 3 are on 90% of the time, probably means you don't watch enough Mavs games :lol
In his last five games, JHoward has had games of seven points (2 for 9 shooting in 40 minutes) and twelve points.
Howard doesnt have to score to contribute. he can defend, rebound, handle the ball, and other stuff. thats the difference between him and Parker. unless Parker is scoring, hes pretty much useless. he cant defend, hes not a good passer, and is too small to do much of anything else.
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Re: Our big 3 vs Mavs big 3
It's a lot easier for your Big 3 to be consistent the bench is more consistent.
If the Big 3 have to carry the team every night, it's going to catch up with you in the long run.
I still take the Spurs Big 3 over the Mavs. What would happen if they swapped Little 9s?
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Re: Our big 3 vs Mavs big 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by stretch
Howard doesnt have to score to contribute. he can defend, rebound, handle the ball, and other stuff. thats the difference between him and Parker. unless Parker is scoring, hes pretty much useless. he cant defend, hes not a good passer, and is too small to do much of anything else.
So you think he was absolutely great in the 2-for-9 game? He got some boards, but turned the ball over, fouled a bit, and looked pretty much useless to me.
My point wasn't to bash Howard at all; he's one of my top 5 favorite players not on the Spurs. I was just pointing out that every player in the NBA has off nights.
The Spurs Big 3's off nights may look worse because they don't have much to offer outside the Big 3.
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Re: Our big 3 vs Mavs big 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by stretch
Howard doesnt have to score to contribute. he can defend, rebound, handle the ball, and other stuff. thats the difference between him and Parker. unless Parker is scoring, hes pretty much useless. he cant defend, hes not a good passer, and is too small to do much of anything else.
Tony is a better defender than people give him credit for. He is every bit as good a player as Terry with half the EGO.
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Re: Our big 3 vs Mavs big 3
Spurs big 3 > Mavs big 3
Spurs rest of team <<<<< Mavs rest of team
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Re: Our big 3 vs Mavs big 3
too bad he dissapears when it matters most. thats the 1 reason why I will take Terry over Parker. Parker is as good or better than Terry in every area except shooting, and clutchness.
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Re: Our big 3 vs Mavs big 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kori Ellis
So you think he was absolutely great in the 2-for-9 game? He got some boards, but turned the ball over, fouled a bit, and looked pretty much useless to me.
My point wasn't to bash Howard at all; he's one of my top 5 favorite players not on the Spurs. I was just pointing out that every player in the NBA has off nights.
The Spurs Big 3's off nights may look worse because they don't have much to offer outside the Big 3.
I never once said he was absolutely great in that game. But he did make a few plays that did help us well, and I thought did a solid job on Lebron. he guarded him well when on him, and did a good job of doubling him when he wasnt his man.
im just saying that he is much more capable of contributing to the team when he isnt scoring, as opposed to Parker.
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Re: Our big 3 vs Mavs big 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by stretch
too bad he dissapears when it matters most. thats the 1 reason why I will take Terry over Parker. Parker is as good or better than Terry in every area except shooting, and clutchness.
Mavs-Spurs Series 2006 (with Parker on one leg)
Parker - 20.1 ppg, 3.1 apg, 42%
Terry - 19.7 ppg, 3.2 apg, 43%
Parker had absolutely no lift in the Mavs series, but managed 20 ppg (I realize that some games he was horrible and that his shooting percentage sucked, going down to Terry-esque level but that's what happens when you can barely walk).
Parker in the Kings series 22ppg/5apg/51%.
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Re: Our big 3 vs Mavs big 3
right now, the Mavs Big 3 are a little better I think.
But there's a big difference between Regular Season Duncan and Playoff Duncan.
There's not much difference between Regular Season Dirk and Playoff Dirk.
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Re: Our big 3 vs Mavs big 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kori Ellis
Mavs-Spurs Series 2006 (with Parker on one leg)
Parker - 20.1 ppg, 3.1 apg, 42%
Terry - 19.7 ppg, 3.2 apg, 43%
Parker had absolutely no lift in the Mavs series, but managed 20 ppg (I realize that some games he was horribl and that his shooting percentage sucked, going down to Terry-esque level but that's what happens when you can barely walk).
Parker in the Kings series 22ppg/5apg/51%.
he didnt look like he could barely walk. if someone can barely walk, they would not play. no excuses like that. either way, who was the one making the big shots when they mattered most? Terry? or Parker?
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Re: Our big 3 vs Mavs big 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by stretch
he didnt look like he could barely walk. if someone can barely walk, they would not play. no excuses like that. either way, who was the one making the big shots when they mattered most? Terry? or Parker?
He was almost scratched in two games of the Mavs series because he couldn't walk the night before. Trainers got him ready enough to get on the court. That's a pretty well known fact.
Go watch the tape of the Kings series and the Mavs series and look at Parker's lift. He had very little lift at all in Mavs series. He got injured twice - end of Kings series, beginning of Mavs series.
I am not giving an excuse for anything. The better team won. I'm explaining why his shooting percentage sucked and went down to Terry's level.
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Re: Our big 3 vs Mavs big 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kori Ellis
He was almost scratched in two games of the Mavs series because he couldn't walk the night before. Trainers got him ready enough to get on the court. That's a pretty well known fact.
Ok. Still, my question was, who made the big plays when they mattered most? Parker? Or Terry?
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Re: Our big 3 vs Mavs big 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by stretch
Ok. Still, my question was, who made the big plays when they mattered most? Parker? Or Terry?
Terry made tons of big shots, but he also missed a big one at the end of game 5, along with making the mistake of putting his hand into a fist as he tapped Finley's shorts. Oh brother, I don't want a shitload of responses. How about this "made the mistake of dealing a deathblow to Finley's crotch"
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Re: Our big 3 vs Mavs big 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kori Ellis
I am not giving an excuse for anything. The better team won. I'm explaining why his shooting percentage sucked and went down to Terry's level.
or perhaps you dont want to credit that Harris and the Mavs defended him well. whether he was hurt or not... i also saw that the Mavs did a good job of swarming him when he tried to get in the paint, and that Harris was frustrating him and making good plays. that injury is not the sole reason that he didnt shoot well that series. the Mavs did a better job of keeping him out of the paint, and forcing him to shoot more jumpers, which hes obviously not very consistent at.
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Re: Our big 3 vs Mavs big 3
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Originally Posted by monosylab1k
Terry made tons of big shots, but he also missed a big one at the end of game 5, along with making the mistake of putting his hand into a fist as he tapped Finley's shorts.
and I dont recall Parker making any big shots, period. it was all Duncan and Ginobili.
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Re: Our big 3 vs Mavs big 3
I didn't discredit the Mavs, I'm sure they were part of it. I just know how hurt he was, so Pop told him to shoot 20-25 times a game and keep after it.
His jumpshot gets better and better all the time. We'll see what happens this year.
I certainly hope the Spurs-Mavs series happens. And hopefully one of the Spurs big men will step up and be able to stay on the court. Because of the Spurs have to go small again, Mavs will win for sure.
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Re: Our big 3 vs Mavs big 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kori Ellis
I didn't discredit the Mavs, I'm sure they were part of it. I just know how hurt he was, so Pop told him to shoot 20-25 times a game and keep after it.
His jumpshot gets better and better all the time. We'll see what happens this year.
I certainly hope the Spurs-Mavs series happens. And hopefully one of the Spurs big men will step up and be able to stay on the court. Because of the Spurs have to go small again, Mavs will win for sure.
Yea, I hope they meet again. It should be another good series, with some great basketball played.
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Re: Our big 3 vs Mavs big 3
I wasn't aware Kori JHo was in a bit of a slump
I got league pass 2 months ago so I try to watch as many Mavs games as I can if the Spurs game isn't on.
But yeah, like I said back on page 1, if Jho's shot isn't falling at least he contributes in other ways. if parker's scoring isn't there, he doesn't do much else really.
and I agree that small ball in the potential mavs series would pretty much be us raising the white flag
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Re: Our big 3 vs Mavs big 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by mardigan
Yea, when you take the next 3, (Barry, Finley, Elson), vs there next 3 (Harris, Stack, Damp) there is no contest
Your forgot Bruce. No wonder.
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Re: Our big 3 vs Mavs big 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by wildbill2u
Your forgot Bruce. No wonder.
No I didnt forget him, I was talking more about offensively, but I guess your right, I should have included him
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Re: Our big 3 vs Mavs big 3
It's difficult to comare these guys, but I'll give it a shot.
Dirk is a far better perimeter shooter than Tim, but Tim has better low-post moves and is a better defender. Dirks life in the NBA is pretty easy because he's usually guarded by a much smaller defender and he seems to get a free pass on the defensive side.
Jet is a better perimeter shooter than Tony, but Tony is quicker and gets more penetration. Tony's jump shot is improving, but he still doesn't pose a serious 3-point threat, which could really spread the floor.
Manu and Howard, statistically, are very similar. I think Howard averages a lot more minutes/game. I do give an edge to Manu because of slightly better 3pt FG percentage and his sick moves. Howard is more of a good, fundamental basketball player.
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Re: Our big 3 vs Mavs big 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by wildbill2u
Your forgot Bruce. No wonder.
Harris >>>> Barry
Stack >>>> Finley
Damp < Bowen
Mavs still win.
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Re: Our big 3 vs Mavs big 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarrinS
Manu and Howard, statistically, are very similar. I think Howard averages a lot more minutes/game. I do give an edge to Manu because of slightly better 3pt FG percentage and his sick moves. Howard is more of a good, fundamental basketball player.
IMO, Manu is a better scorer and is mentally stronger (mainly due to having much more basketball experience) while Howard is a better all-around player.
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Re: Our big 3 vs Mavs big 3
I agree with people saying the Spurs top 3 are pretty even with the Mavs top 3. You could argue the Spurs top 3 are better, but I wouldn't spend much time arguing if someone said the Mavs top 3 are better. Whatever. But take the top 3 out of the picture and you get basically the rest of the Mavs rotational guys are better. 4-8 or 4-9, they are overall better. Or at least those 4-9 "matchup" better against our 4-9 that makes it hard for us to keep up sometimes.
The key in another series (if we are lucky to make it to the WCF) is going to be the matchups we use regarding those other players. Guys like Bowen, Harris, Stack, Elson/Obertp (defensively), DGeorge, Buck, Fin and Barry, etc. Can Horry make an impact or is he done? Will Bonner have a role or not?
TD and Dirk dont matchup against each other. Last year we went with Bowen on Dirk. What happened? Dirk got his averages, better than average probably. Got to the line. But where he can hurt us is with his rebounding. As it is, Bowen cant rebound to save his life, but against a 7 footer? But I think Pop has learned his lesson and sees this was not the way to go. Why?
With Bowen on Dirk, Dirk wasn't gonna get slowed down anyway and now Howard had someone much smaller than him on him and actually became more of a scorer in that series and killed us with timely rebounds. So, I am betting this year Pop goes with Elson/Oberto on Dirk. Maybe even Horry in small stretches or Bonner if he's playing. But basically give him the bigger body. Dirk will probably get his anyway but a bigger body to keep him off the boards. But even better, keep Bowen on Howard which might be the defensive matchup that decides the next series.
This is the way I see it going, if Pop has learned from last year:
Terry - Barry/Manu. Don't put TP on him if at all possible, I think Terry's shown he's too big. I don't understand why Manu couldn't spend more time trying to slow him down last year. Was he too busy with Howard? That was a bad matchup for us. :-(
Harris - TP and Vaughn. Harris is a guy that can actually keep up with him? I think healthy TP will prove that's not quite the case. I hope anyway. But check this out. With Harris and Terry, throw out TP and Manu. With Harris and not Terry, get Vaughn out there! I think he can be a big role player in that series. I don't think Beno gets in. That's too bad, we could use his shooting.
Howard - Bowen. Bowen needs to have one job, Eliminate Howard's impact on the game. Treat him like Kobe, TMac, LeBron... ok, not TMac and LeBron, but VC, Kobe, Marion, etc.
Any lame center - TD. TD averaged what in last years series? Yeah, that was on a bum foot. He looks deadly this year and we might see another vintage performance from him.
Dirk - Elson/Oberto. Yeah, our own lame centers. Sure. But stay big on him.
When they go really small with Dirk at center? TD and him will basically become unstopable. Whichever coach flinches first and can't stomach that will lose. :-)
Other keys? George, Buckner. They are the new dimension this year. Will be interesting how they impact the series if we are lucky enough to see another one.
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Re: Our big 3 vs Mavs big 3
^^Damn that was long, top 3 I think is pretty even, both ways, I think Tim and Dirk cancell each other out, Terry and Tony cancel each other out, and Manu and Josh cancel each other out.
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Re: Our big 3 vs Mavs big 3
^^ Hehe, sorry about that. I couldn't stop typing.
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Re: Our big 3 vs Mavs big 3
Oh, but I don't think Manu has to cancel out Howard IF Bowen slows down Howard and makes his scoring impact low. Then Manu can cancel out the Mavs bench scorer (probably Stack). I like that better.
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Re: Our big 3 vs Mavs big 3
Question: Have the Spurs ever one a championship where someone, other than the big 3, didn't step up with huge 3-pointers?
Answer: No
1999. Jaren Jackson
2003. Steve Kerr (sorry about that, Mavs fans) and Stephen Jackson
2005. Robert Horry
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Re: Our big 3 vs Mavs big 3
I don't think that the Mavs big three are "On" all the time. Dirk is the most consistant and he is on about 95% of the time. Howard is second, about 75% of the time, but as stated, when his shot isn't falling he is still a good defender and rebounder. Terry is at about 65% being "On", The thing with his is when he is "On" He is REALLY ON, and when he isn't, Harris comes in with almost the same game.
What hurts the Spurs in the lack of back-ups. There is a big difference between Parker and Vaughn, what the Spurs do with Parker on the floor, they cannot with Vaughn. Not true with the Mavs PG's.
The same is true Manu and Barry/Finley. When the line-up changs, the playbook does as well. With Howard and Stack, their games are close to the same (On offense anyway).
Even with the "Big Two" of Duncan and Dirk. Bonner is not the inside force that Duncan is ... In fact, he is close to the opposite (In outside player), the playbook changes with him. With Dirk and Croshere, they both have the outside shot and inside moves. Obviously the talent level drops, but the Mavs can still run the same plays.
With the Mavs, no matter the line-up on the floor, they play the same way. Run the same plays and keep the pressure on. With the Spurs, when they go to the bench for any of the three, the playbook changes.
That is something that I think has been overlooked with the Mavs management through the last few years. They don't just get a player to fill a roster spot, they look for the guy that fits with what they already do at the position. you need only look to Dirks back-up, they have been Croshere, Van Horn and Walker ... all good at both inide and outside games. Howards Position? Stackhouse and Jamison ... Same game.
The Spurs big three are slightly better in the Playoffs (Duncan is a monster, Manu and Parker can vanish completely), But the way that the teams approach the bench and how they play in the system gives the edge to the Mavs.
The Spurs need all three to be "ON" to win, and even then .... Remember in one of the losses last year all three got 30+ points, it could be a struggle. The Mavs only need two of the three to hit to win.
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Re: Our big 3 vs Mavs big 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarrinS
2003. Steve Kerr (sorry about that, Mavs fans) and Stephen Jackson
none taken. Jackson and Kerr kicked our asses that day. It sucked. Really bad. But that's when reality set in... you can't win a title without defense. Hopefully the Suns and their fans learn that one day.
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Re: Our big 3 vs Mavs big 3
Top 6 combined for both teams.
1. Dirk
2. Duncan
3. Ginobili
4. Howard
5. Parker
6. Terry/Harris. They are about the same.
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Re: Our big 3 vs Mavs big 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by stretch
Stack >>>> Finley
Not sure I'd go that far. Both of them have tended to choke and disappear in the playoffs, but with Stack's greater role, he has a proportionately greater probability of killing your team's chances of winning a game.
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Re: Our big 3 vs Mavs big 3
Most people don't want to admit that:
Duncan, Parker, Ginobili > Dirk, Howard, Terry
Although Dallas bench > Spurs bench.
We have a better Big 3, but worse bench, than Dallas.
Do you all really think Howard and Terry are on the level of Parker and Ginobili? You're nuts if you do.
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Re: Our big 3 vs Mavs big 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Lanier
Not sure I'd go that far. Both of them have tended to choke and disappear in the playoffs, but with Stack's greater role, he has a proportionately greater probability of killing your team's chances of winning a game.
He also is actually capable of helping this team win as well. Finley is simply useless, and a far bigger choker than Stackhouse.
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Re: Our big 3 vs Mavs big 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by smrattler
Oh, but I don't think Manu has to cancel out Howard IF Bowen slows down Howard and makes his scoring impact low. Then Manu can cancel out the Mavs bench scorer (probably Stack). I like that better.
Thats very true, if Bowen can slow down one of their big 3, helps out one of ours. Except for the Buckners, Georges, and Harris's that can slow down our guys as well, they have some damn good defenders
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Re: Our big 3 vs Mavs big 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpursDynasty
Most people don't want to admit that:
Duncan, Parker, Ginobili > Dirk, Howard, Terry
Although Dallas bench > Spurs bench.
We have a better Big 3, but worse bench, than Dallas.
Do you all really think Howard and Terry are on the level of Parker and Ginobili? You're nuts if you do.
I think they are on the same level, why wouldnt I? I mean, yeah, they are each better at certain things than the others, but they pretty much even out when all is said and done
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Re: Our big 3 vs Mavs big 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by mardigan
I think they are on the same level, why wouldnt I? I mean, yeah, they are each better at certain things than the others, but they pretty much even out when all is said and done
Ok, ask yourselves this question: When it comes to playoff situations and winning those important games:
Would you rather have Parker and Ginobili, or Howard and Terry on your team?
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Re: Our big 3 vs Mavs big 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by mavsfan1000
Top 6 combined for both teams.
1. Dirk
2. Duncan
3. Ginobili
4. Howard
5. Parker
6. Terry/Harris. They are about the same.
Wow I actually agree with that list :lol.
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Re: Our big 3 vs Mavs big 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpursDynasty
Ok, ask yourselves this question: When it comes to playoff situations and winning those important games:
Would you rather have Parker and Ginobili, or Howard and Terry on your team?
Im not sure, depends on which duo is on. They both have their ups and downs. Tony gets to the basket better than Terry, Terry is a much better shooter than Tony. Manu has more offensive game than Howard, but Howard is a much better defender and rebounder. It all evens out to me
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Re: Our big 3 vs Mavs big 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by td4mvp21
Wow I actually agree with that list :lol.
Yea, I pretty much do to , except that Duncan and Dirk are pretty much dead even to me, I wouldnt put one in front on the other
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Re: Our big 3 vs Mavs big 3
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Originally Posted by td4mvp21
Wow I actually agree with that list :lol.
Dirk better than Duncan? :lol
I mean I know Dirk makes his jump shots, but please. Matt Bonner has more basketball moves than Dirk.
Dirk made you all do this last June :pctoss
Actually, that was Wade.
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Re: Our big 3 vs Mavs big 3
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Originally Posted by stretch
He also is actually capable of helping this team win as well. Finley is simply useless, and a far bigger choker than Stackhouse.
I strenuously disagree with that, and I'll leave it at that.
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Re: Our big 3 vs Mavs big 3
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Originally Posted by Bob Lanier
I strenuously disagree with that, and I'll leave it at that.
And why will you leave it at that? Because you have absolutely no evidence to refute it, that's why.
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Re: Our big 3 vs Mavs big 3
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Ok, ask yourselves this question: When it comes to playoff situations and winning those important games:
Would you rather have Parker and Ginobili, or Howard and Terry on your team?
If I am down by any number of points, I would take the Mavs trio. If I am ahead, I would take the Mavs trio
Looking for the comeback, Terry and Dirks shooting with Howard rebounding will win the day.
Looking to hold the lead, I would really like to have Duncan inside, but his FT shooting could lose the lead for us. In a FT contest, Mavs all the way.
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Re: Our big 3 vs Mavs big 3
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Originally Posted by monosylab1k
evidence
Evidence? Nobody is capable of quantifying the game of basketball. This forum, like all sports forums, is for smack talk and commiseration.
If you want simplistic numbers, Stackhouse's career playoff averages are 4.0 points and 3% worse from the field than his regular season averages; he owns a pathetic career playoff FG% of 38.0 (including one year in Detroit in which he shot 32% and did absolutely everything he conceivably could to lose playoff series after playoff series). Finley's are 1.0 points and 2% worse from the field.
Jerry Stackhouse is simply a loser, and unlike Finley he's never had a consistent spot-up jumpshot to fall back on when his experiments in dribbling fail. That's experience, not evidence, and I'm sorry that's all I have to offer.
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Re: Our big 3 vs Mavs big 3
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Originally Posted by SpursDynasty
Dirk better than Duncan? :lol
I mean I know Dirk makes his jump shots, but please. Matt Bonner has more basketball moves than Dirk.
Dirk made you all do this last June :pctoss
Actually, that was Wade.
In the playoffs, when the Spurs play the Mavs, Dirk does more for his team than Duncan, mostly because he has to. Thus, Dirk is better. Duncan often lets Ginobili and Parker take the reins. Overall? I'll still say Duncan is better, Dirk has just been having amazing seasons. Duncan can still do anything better than Dirk except score. Dirk's developed into a real stud, but Duncan came into the league that way.
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Re: Our big 3 vs Mavs big 3
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Originally Posted by SpursDynasty
I mean I know Dirk makes his jump shots, but please. Matt Bonner has more basketball moves than Dirk.
GTFO
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Re: Our big 3 vs Mavs big 3
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Originally Posted by SpursDynasty
I mean I know Dirk makes his jump shots, but please. Matt Bonner has more basketball moves than Dirk.
OMFG :lmao.
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Re: Our big 3 vs Mavs big 3
I think what we all know is that a series like last year's series more frequently comes down to the things you can't really analyze than it does to questions like this. I mean, for crissakes, one could make a very legitmate argument that the difference in the Spurs/Mavs series in 2006 was Keith Van Horn draining 3 huge three pointers in Game 7. If Van Horn doesn't hit those shots -- arguably -- the Spurs 4th quarter comeback sweeps the Mavs away in a 2003-like tidal wave. Nobody that I can recall ever argued that KVH might prove to be a major factor in that series, but he indisputably was.
Teams that win in a big series tend to get at least some meaningful contributions from unexpected sources. I maintain that the Spurs and Mavericks are actually remarkably close from a matchup standpoint. I think it's conceivable that either could win in 5 games and either could win in 7. But I'm certain that someone unexpected will provide some production to make a difference in the ultimate outcome.
Dirk gives the Mavs the better opportunity to determine tempo and matchups. The Spurs, I think, have the best singular player. I think the Spurs also probably have the most clutch player on either roster -- or at least the guy I'd most want with the ball in his hands (from an objective standpoint) if I had to have one play to win. But the Mavs have more guys who can do more things to win games. The Spurs have a lot of one-trick ponies who don't make much of a difference (and can actually hurt the team) if they aren't performing that trick.
I hope the series comes off. Last year's was the best playoff series I've ever witnessed in person.
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Re: Our big 3 vs Mavs big 3
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Originally Posted by Bob Lanier
Evidence? Nobody is capable of quantifying the game of basketball. This forum, like all sports forums, is for smack talk and commiseration.
If you want simplistic numbers, Stackhouse's career playoff averages are 4.0 points and 3% worse from the field than his regular season averages; he owns a pathetic career playoff FG% of 38.0 (including one year in Detroit in which he shot 32% and did absolutely everything he conceivably could to lose playoff series after playoff series). Finley's are 1.0 points and 2% worse from the field.
Jerry Stackhouse is simply a loser, and unlike Finley he's never had a consistent spot-up jumpshot to fall back on when his experiments in dribbling fail. That's experience, not evidence, and I'm sorry that's all I have to offer.
That was a pretty good exhibit A
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Re: Our big 3 vs Mavs big 3
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Originally Posted by Bob Lanier
Evidence? Nobody is capable of quantifying the game of basketball. This forum, like all sports forums, is for smack talk and commiseration.
If you want simplistic numbers, Stackhouse's career playoff averages are 4.0 points and 3% worse from the field than his regular season averages; he owns a pathetic career playoff FG% of 38.0 (including one year in Detroit in which he shot 32% and did absolutely everything he conceivably could to lose playoff series after playoff series). Finley's are 1.0 points and 2% worse from the field.
Jerry Stackhouse is simply a loser, and unlike Finley he's never had a consistent spot-up jumpshot to fall back on when his experiments in dribbling fail. That's experience, not evidence, and I'm sorry that's all I have to offer.
You speak like somebody who didn't even watch the playoffs last season. Or the season before, for that matter.
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Re: Our big 3 vs Mavs big 3
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Originally Posted by stretch
and I dont recall Parker making any big shots, period. it was all Duncan and Ginobili.
It's not so much about Tony not being clutch, it's about the fact that he had just started (and still is) improving as a shooter. Mavs took away his driving lanes and he can't do much. He's been much more consistent this year, so this postseason should be a good indicator of his actual clutchness.
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Re: Our big 3 vs Mavs big 3
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Originally Posted by monosylab1k
You speak like somebody who didn't even watch the playoffs last season. Or the season before, for that matter.
Last season Stack shot 40% from the field and 34% from 3 during the playoffs, along with sub-80% free throw shooting. Finley? 48% and 38%, and 90% from the line.
The season before: 38%, 40%, 86% for Stack; 42%, 39%, 89% for Finley.
Neither of them plays any defense or creates anything for their teammates, so I'm taking into consideration their skill as finishers. And as a finisher, whenever the pressure is on, Stack is a guy opposing coaches have to love. That Avery Johnson also loves Stack is an ongoing mystery.
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Re: Our big 3 vs Mavs big 3
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Originally Posted by Bob Lanier
Last season Stack shot 40% from the field and 34% from 3 during the playoffs, along with sub-80% free throw shooting. Finley? 48% and 38%, and 90% from the line.
The season before: 38%, 40%, 86% for Stack; 42%, 39%, 89% for Finley.
Neither of them plays any defense or creates anything for their teammates, so I'm taking into consideration their skill as finishers. And as a finisher, whenever the pressure is on, Stack is a guy opposing coaches have to love. That Avery Johnson also loves Stack is an ongoing mystery.
Again, spoken like a guy who didn't watch the playoffs. There's no doubt Stackhouse has his flaws (especially when he forgets he's a 6th man and thinks he's a star)....but to say that Finley is more clutch and could outplay Stack at this stage of their careers....well that's said by somebody who wants to look at shot percentages to base their beliefs.
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Re: Our big 3 vs Mavs big 3
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It's not so much about Tony not being clutch, it's about the fact that he had just started (and still is) improving as a shooter. Mavs took away his driving lanes and he can't do much. He's been much more consistent this year, so this postseason should be a good indicator of his actual clutchness.
The question was wether Parker was a "clutch" as Terry .... The answer was that Terry hit the shots that Parker didn't ... Now you can make excuses about defense and everything else, but clutch is clutch reguardless of defense.
Your reasoning that he is more clutch because "this postseason should be a good indicator" Means nothing, until it happens ... Or doesn't.
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Re: Our big 3 vs Mavs big 3
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Originally Posted by monosylab1k
Again, spoken like a guy who didn't watch the playoffs.
I watched the playoffs. In fact, I'm pretty sure I've watched every NBA playoff game Jerry Stackhouse has ever played, and most of Finley's, as well.
For example, I distinctly remember watching Stack losing Game 1 of the Spurs series for you.
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Re: Our big 3 vs Mavs big 3
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Originally Posted by Bob Lanier
I watched the playoffs. In fact, I'm pretty sure I've watched every NBA playoff game Jerry Stackhouse has ever played, and most of Finley's, as well.
For example, I distinctly remember watching Stack losing Game 2 of the Spurs series for you.
LOL the Mavs won game 2. Game Over. Enjoy your night.
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Re: Our big 3 vs Mavs big 3
Stack is better the Finley. Many times this year when the Mavs were facing an opposing run, AJ would put in Stackhouse because if there is one thing that he WILL DO, its get to the rim for a hard shot AND FOUL. He not afread of contact in any way, shape, or form.
He has broken more opposing runs then any other Mav. Can you say that about Finley? This by the way is on top of everything else that he does.
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Re: Our big 3 vs Mavs big 3
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Originally Posted by monosylab1k
LOL the Mavs won game 2. Game Over. Enjoy your night.
He did make a horrendous decision at the end of Game 1.
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Re: Our big 3 vs Mavs big 3
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Originally Posted by FromWayDowntown
He did make a horrendous decision at the end of Game 1.
No doubt about that....but that guy DISTINCTLY remembered Stackhouse fucking up to lose game TWO.
That is, before he decided to fix his mistake :lol
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Re: Our big 3 vs Mavs big 3
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He did make a horrendous decision at the end of Game 1.
So I guess that puts him on the same level as Manu? Everyone has a bad moment, Stack has more good then bad, he hasn't vanished for weeks at a time like Finley has this year
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Re: Our big 3 vs Mavs big 3
Well I think its pretty obvious that Stack definately has more in the tank than Fin, but I still trust Fin will make a couple of big shots in the playoffs for us. But Stack is definately the better player at this point of his career
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Re: Our big 3 vs Mavs big 3
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Originally Posted by Dalhoop
The question was wether Parker was a "clutch" as Terry .... The answer was that Terry hit the shots that Parker didn't ... Now you can make excuses about defense and everything else, but clutch is clutch reguardless of defense.
Your reasoning that he is more clutch because "this postseason should be a good indicator" Means nothing, until it happens ... Or doesn't.
Mavs fan.....living in the past? WTF?
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Re: Our big 3 vs Mavs big 3
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Originally Posted by sprrs
It's not so much about Tony not being clutch, it's about the fact that he had just started (and still is) improving as a shooter. Mavs took away his driving lanes and he can't do much. He's been much more consistent this year, so this postseason should be a good indicator of his actual clutchness.
what the fuck does that have to do with anything? if he cant shoot, then thats his problem. thats the stupidest excuse ive ever fucking heard. its as stupid as saying something like, Shaq was great because he would have been greater if he knew how to shoot. makes no sense whatsoever.
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Re: Our big 3 vs Mavs big 3
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Originally Posted by SpursDynasty
Dirk better than Duncan? :lol
I mean I know Dirk makes his jump shots, but please. Matt Bonner has more basketball moves than Dirk.
Dirk made you all do this last June :pctoss
Actually, that was Wade.
U are so full of shit.. why don't u just shut the fuck up!
Dirk >>> Bonner
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Re: Our big 3 vs Mavs big 3
mavs don't have a "big 3." dirk and josh howard. that's it. the rest alright, but none are at the level of manu or tony.
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Re: Our big 3 vs Mavs big 3
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Originally Posted by itzsoweezee
mavs don't have a "big 3." dirk and josh howard. that's it. the rest alright, but none are at the level of manu or tony.
Jason Terry averages just as many points as Manu, so how could manu be in a big 3 but not Terry?
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Re: Our big 3 vs Mavs big 3
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Originally Posted by mardigan
Jason Terry averages just as many points as Manu, so how could manu be in a big 3 but not Terry?
1) terry plays 8 more minutes a game
2) manu is a much much bigger threat to the opposing team. terry would never get the kind of attention manu gets
3) manu's impact and brilliance on any game transcends any stats.
4) manu's been an all-star, chosen by the coaches. terry hasn't
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Re: Our big 3 vs Mavs big 3
The only argument that holds weight is the minutes, the rest is just your opinion, except the all star, which is still just opinion. I think Terry can be just as dangerous as Manu, especially at the end of the game
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Re: Our big 3 vs Mavs big 3
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Originally Posted by stretch
what the fuck does that have to do with anything? if he cant shoot, then thats his problem. thats the stupidest excuse ive ever fucking heard. its as stupid as saying something like, Shaq was great because he would have been greater if he knew how to shoot. makes no sense whatsoever.
When you focus your entire defense on stopping a point guard who's only strength is driving into the lane, saying he dissapears because he doesn't have the mental toughness to be a game finisher is ridiculous.
And to bring my argument down to your level: fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck
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Re: Our big 3 vs Mavs big 3
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Originally Posted by mardigan
The only argument that holds weight is the minutes, the rest is just your opinion, except the all star, which is still just opinion. I think Terry can be just as dangerous as Manu, especially at the end of the game
at the very least, terry isn't as good as manu for two reasons. of course, in reality, manu is better than terry for more than just two reasons. but at least we've established now that terry isn't on manu's level.
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Re: Our big 3 vs Mavs big 3
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Originally Posted by itzsoweezee
at the very least, terry isn't as good as manu for two reasons. of course, in reality, manu is better than terry for more than just two reasons. but at least we've established now that terry isn't on manu's level.
I dont think that he is as good as Manu, Im a Spurs fan for shits sake, Im just saying that Terry is a huge part of the mavs team, and to say that he isnt one of their big three doesnt make a lot of sense to me
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Re: Our big 3 vs Mavs big 3
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Originally Posted by mardigan
I dont think that he is as good as Manu, Im a Spurs fan for shits sake, Im just saying that Terry is a huge part of the mavs team, and to say that he isnt one of their big three doesnt make a lot of sense to me
the reason i say that is, if the mavs' big 3 are more consistent as a unit on offense, its more b/c they've got a big 2 and a good role player. it's a lot harder for three all-star caliber scorers to play well together on offense.
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Re: Our big 3 vs Mavs big 3
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Originally Posted by SpursDynasty
I mean I know Dirk makes his jump shots, but please. Matt Bonner has more basketball moves than Dirk.
This post truly deserves an outstanding award. :lmao
What's next? Udrih better than Harris?
So are you starting that "Bonner for MVP" chant?
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Re: Our big 3 vs Mavs big 3
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Originally Posted by sprrs
When you focus your entire defense on stopping a point guard who's only strength is driving into the lane, saying he dissapears because he doesn't have the mental toughness to be a game finisher is ridiculous.
And to bring my argument down to your level: fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck
i dont think that was the mavs entire defensive focus. all i said, and the fact is, is that Terry made big plays, while Parker did not.
fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck.
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Re: Our big 3 vs Mavs big 3
I NEVER SAID MATT BONNER WAS BETTER THAN DIRK.
I said he has more moves than just a fadeaway jump shot, which doesn't say a lot. Most players do more than just shoot. Having more moves doesn't make a player better. I just said that to emphasize that Dirk is boring to watch, except when he's losing.
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Re: Our big 3 vs Mavs big 3
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Originally Posted by SpursDynasty
I NEVER SAID MATT BONNER WAS BETTER THAN DIRK.
I said he has more moves than just a fadeaway jump shot, which doesn't say a lot. Most players do more than just shoot. Having more moves doesn't make a player better. I just said that to emphasize that Dirk is boring to watch, except when he's losing.
ah ok... but you know what? call me stupid, but i've always found Tim duncan more interesting to watch than any of Vince Carter's team. Carter has probably a million times more move than Tim's.
Be objective. If you really want an interesting team, root for Phoenix. Spurs may be too boring for most people. Actually Tim has fewer moves than Dirk, but that doesn't make Tim really boring.
