Another good article on the fight.

Link

Bob Kravitz
Unreal! This NBA altercation got completely out of control

November 20, 2004

It was, by any measure, one of the most disgraceful moments in the history of the NBA, and one of the worst, and most frightening, in the history of professional sports in America.

The beer will be mopped up and the debris will be swept away soon enough, but the echoes from Friday night's horrible scene at the end of the Pacers-Pistons game will sound for many weeks to come.

The question now is this: How will the NBA clean up this terrible mess? How does the league find fairness in a situation where nearly everybody acted wrongly and, in some cases, criminally?

Even without further review, we know these things will happen:

• Detroit's Ben Wallace, whose overreaction to Ron Artest's foul started the whole mess, will get suspended, probably for five games.

• Artest, who showed admirable restraint during the early moments of the fiasco, will be hit the hardest for retaliating and running into the stands to confront the fans. Even after he escaped the stands, he cold-cocked a Pistons fan who had come onto the floor. We're talking 10 games, minimum.

• Stephen Jackson, who came to Artest's aid and was clearly the most supportive and aggressive of Artest's teammates, also will be looking at five to 10 games.

And there will be more.

A lot more.

From the Pacers and Pistons, from the NBA and from lawyers representing some of the fans who were caught up in the maelstrom.

There were no arrests Friday night, but that doesn't mean there won't be arrests down the road. This one will not end for a long time.

"It's the ugliest thing I've seen as a coach or a player," Pistons coach Larry Brown said after an infamous night that turned into the Throwdown in Motown. (Oh, yeah, the Pacers won . . . like it matters).

How did American sports come to this?

How did a fairly routine NBA altercation turn into the kind of riot we more often associate with minor league hockey?

And where -- where -- was the security at The Palace of Auburn Hills when thugs disguised at fans tossed beer and cups at Artest?

Where were they when Pacers players, led by Artest and Jackson, charged into the stands and engaged those clowns in a barroom brawl?

Where were they when Pacers players and coaches were coming off the court -- the game was smartly canceled after the riot -- and fans threw even more cups and chairs on their heads, endangering livelihoods, endangering lives?

Before NBA commissioner David Stern does anything else, he has got to hold the Pistons' organization accountable for the way things got out of hand Friday night.

How much of a fine is enough?

The damage is done. The trick, now, is making sure this never happens again.

Clearly, Detroit needs more security and/or better security, and that's probably true for almost every sports venue in this country.

The foul that started it all was nothing flagrant, nothing terribly violent. Shoot, by Artest's standards, the late foul on Ben Wallace was a love tap. It was a foul, a garden-variety NBA foul at the end of a hard-fought game between the Pacers and Pistons, but nothing out of the ordinary.

The Pistons center was guilty of a terrible overreaction, and he should get a serious fine and suspension. That said, he can't be blamed for what happened next.

As both teams stood around, posturing and taunting the way NBA players are wont to do, Artest reclined in an almost comical manner on that same table. On this occasion, he was showing great restraint, resisting any temptation to retaliate against Wallace or join the fray nearby.

He couldn't hold back, though, when debris and beer started flying into his face.

What Artest did next, going into the stands to confront the fan, was human nature. Who wouldn't do precisely the same thing?

At the same time, though, his actions cannot be condoned in any form or fashion. It doesn't matter how he was provoked. While we might understand what inspired Artest, we can't condone it, and the league won't let it pass.

It may seem unfair that this was started by Wallace and escalated by fans, yet the Pacers will be hit the hardest by the NBA. But, then, how can you argue? They went into the stands. End of story.

The fear now is what happens Dec. 25, Christmas Day, when these two teams meet again, this time in Indianapolis. Maybe, by that time, things will have settled down between the two organizations, but fans, even the highly civilized ones who fill up the fieldhouse, have very long memories.

This can't happen again.

Although, we know, somewhere, somehow, it will.

I stopped reading after they blamed it all on Ben Wallace and then said Jackson came to Artest's aid and was "supportive." Then I looked at the link and sure enough it was an Indy paper.

Nice try Pooh.

This is a BS article and Artest is a psycho as we all know. He's not the first player to have a fan throw beer on him and being hit by beer never injured anyone. The intelligent reaction would be to step back and let the league go after the fan, make a public specter of him to help stop this from happening more. Unfortunately, as much as I like Jack, you couldn't have a more immature group of players than the Pacers have to confront and deal with a situation like this.

Who took the first shot?

It doesn't matter who took the first shot.
Ben had no control on what would happen other than himself (maybe he didn't have control on himself either). Ben can only be responsible for what he actually did, but not what other people did because of him.
It is just not fair to blame all to Ben.

With 45 seconds left and a 15 point lead was that type of foul (you could see Artest give a forearm shove to the upperback) needed? It wasn't a flagrant but it sure as hell wasn't needed or called for. That would of pissed off any other NBA player. You risk injury at such a mute point in an already decided game.

Well for the next game, they could start by not selling booze. Sober people are more prone to think twice about what they are doing or going to do than a highly charged drunk guy. If I had been there and drunk, I would've thrown a chair or something, I get rowdy when I drink, that's why I don't drink anymore. I learned a long time ago, that me and booze just don't mix.

Or the NBA could start giving better psyche tests for their own players.

"That would of pissed off any other NBA player."

When the thug Eddie Jones, a real balla? so admired by the macho crowd, elbowed Manu in the kidneys so hard Manu ended up prostrate, cheek to the floor, Manu didn't get up pissed off.

I read this article earlier today at the Indystar. As with a similar one at the Detroit Free Press slanting the home team, this one is also homerish, trying to pass it almost exclusively onto the fans and Palace security.

Hey, if these jerk off NBA athletes would check themselves, Ben Wallace included, it never would have come to this! And I don't buy that racism garbage. These multi-millionaires have it way too easy. If my wish came true, Artest, O'Neal, Jackson and the moron in the suit would do some serious jail time for malicious assault. On the flip side of the coin, if you can pinpoint the fan who threw the bottle or chair etc., then you come down on them as well. However, the players' actions are utterly inexcuseable and horribly disgraceful on world TV. This game was televized WORLD WIDE. In fact, I'm gonna watch the end of the game again on replay this evening on ESPN Brasil.

Manu is soft and a punkass bitch. He's just a suburban pampered fool whos never had to defend himself in his life. Hes not a man.

observation of fight habits in basketball games in europe
throwing things (bottles, glasses, coins) on the floor was nothing special some years ago in the euroleague, specailly in the former yugoslav and then adriatic league. Then they first banned smoking in the arena and then drinkin (beers). Now it's much less frequent, but there the fans here are much more "hardcore", so at some hot games it's still nothing unusual if fights happen. But players never fight, except between eachother :) Also there is a habit of lighting tourches (ofcourse they are smuggled in the arena) in the color of your team.

hmmm... would hate to play in Europe, anyway i agree with this article's take, i would do very little to Artest if i was the NBA

I love the way the "unbiased" journalist blames Wallace. Artest doesn't unnecessarily foul Wallace he doesn't get pissed.

Neither player is more innocent than the other.

I just saw the rousing welcome the Pacers fans gave them as they arrived last night. If only I was there, I would've cheered them on too as they did.

It was like 6 morons at the airport.

Yep, just as bad as the Piston fans.

And did you see Jax soaking it up? F'N loser.

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I just saw the rousing welcome the Pacers fans gave them as they arrived last night. If only I was there, I would've cheered them on too as they did.

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One loser supporting his fellow losers. Nice.

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Originally Posted by pooh

I just saw the rousing welcome the Pacers fans gave them as they arrived last night. If only I was there, I would've cheered them on too as they did.

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so what the pacers did was ok?

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Originally Posted by pooh

As both teams stood around, posturing and taunting the way NBA players are wont to do, Artest reclined in an almost comical manner on that same table. On this occasion, he was showing great restraint, resisting any temptation to retaliate against Wallace or join the fray nearby.

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He sat on the table in a comical way in order to taunt Ben.

I wonder why he didn't attempt to retaliate against Ben and instead chose a skinny fan. Hmmm let's see .. why would he fight a scrawny fan instead of a 6-9 240 pound beast of a man? Hmmm ... yeah, I can't figure it out. It can't be because he's a pansy.

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Originally Posted by ducks

so what the pacers did was ok?

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What the three of them did? No...now the Artest part, I understand. If someone had tossed something at me like that, yeah I would've went up there and if the fan had taken a swing...then he's toast.

But would I have been at the airport? Yeah, but in showing support for the team, not for the incident at hand.

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No...now the Artest part, I understand. If someone had tossed something at me like that, yeah I would've went up there and if the fan had taken a swing...then he's toast.

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You think it's okay that he went into the stands and attacked a guy, who wasn't event he person who threw a drink at him?

You are warped.

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Originally Posted by dcole50

He sat on the table in a comical way in order to taunt Ben.

I wonder why he didn't attempt to retaliate against Ben and instead chose a skinny fan. Hmmm let's see .. why would he fight a scrawny fan instead of a 6-9 240 pound beast of a man? Hmmm ... yeah, I can't figure it out. It can't be because he's a pansy.

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Calling Artest a pansy for attempting to do the RIGHT (although somewhat immaturely) thing and not going after Wallace versus being provoked and seeing red and retaliating against whomever. I like your logic.

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Originally Posted by Kori Ellis

You think it's okay that he went into the stands and attacked a guy, who wasn't event he person who threw a drink at him?

You are warped.

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Exactly. Every single person on the face of this great planet Earth from Screamin A Smith to Joe Blow who is defending the players and Artest by either 1) placing almost full blame on the fans or 2) saying the players were justified can EASILY be refuted with:

HE ATTACKED THE WRONG FREAKIN GUY.

Thank you come again.

I can see pooh now going after that little old lady in the pile. "Did you do it" Whack. "Did you do it?" Whack.

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Originally Posted by Kori Ellis

You think it's okay that he went into the stands and attacked a guy, who wasn't event he person who threw a drink at him?

You are warped.

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I'm not warped.

If the bottle was solid and Artest was cut and bleeding, yeah...I wouldn't have a problem with him going into the stands.

I don't condone it, but hey...who thinks at that very instant? You don't...you react. Artest, JO and Jax will all be suspended for a lengthy period...(I'm guessing 15-20 a piece tops) and fined quite a lot of money.

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If the bottle was solid and Artest was cut and bleeding, yeah...I wouldn't have a problem with him going into the stands.

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He wasn't bleeding. He was wet. And you already said that you understand his reaction and would have done the same. If he actually thought he was in danger, he should have just gone to the locker room. But he wanted to fight. And he didn't care who he was fighting with.

But you're proud of the Pacers, you admit, you said you be their at that airport cheering those thugs on.

That's the samething as Piston fans throwing crap onto the players and and onto the court.

it was plastic
not glass

I think he should have not punched the guy until he made sure it was the right guy
hold the gauynot punch him

then you might jusify him going out to get the guy
(although I can not)

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Originally Posted by Kori Ellis

He wasn't bleeding. He was wet. And you already said that you understand his reaction and would have done the same. If he actually thought he was in danger, he should have just gone to the locker room. But he wanted to fight. And he didn't care who he was fighting with.

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Right, I understand that. If Artest had been sitting on the bench got hit, then yeah...he could just point out the person in stands and have security get them.

In this case however, he had just been separated from Wallace after he had been shoved back by him. The fuse had been lit inside Artest...the cup coming down and hitting him just set off the bomb inside of him.

The one player who should be hit with the most is Artest, I wouldn't be surprised if he's suspended close to 30 games. J.O. will be suspended probably closer to that, followed by Jackson. Wallace will probably just get 5 games tops, if not less.

WRF are you trying to JUSTIFIY Artest's actions!?!?!?!

Oh, because you're Pacer fan.

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Originally Posted by pooh

I don't condone it, but hey...who thinks at that very instant? You don't...you react.

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Me. My friends. Many people stop. Maybe we're not "men" enough or whatever but I've seen what happens to people who get into situations and don't restrain themselves. Ugly incidents like what happened to Artest.