Am I wrong in thinking Amare doesn't have the same Spring he used to?

Um, wow. The consensus among the Suns is Amare has his full vertical back, and maybe a little more. He caught an errant pass from Marion Wednesday night that put Amare's wrist above the backboard. And he caught it. What Amare is missing is his lateral quickness. Every now and then he shows glimpses, but it's not quite the same. He's still quicker from a dead stop than most everyone at his position in the NBA, and given his strength and his uber soft hands, a matchup nightmare for every 4 or 5 on the planet.

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Amare and Kurt Thomas are not a serviceable interior on the defensive end...

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Amare is much improved, but he's still a ways away in learning how to keep his feet and not bite on the fake. Gosh, he's foul prone, which really throws a wrench in the Suns' game plan.

Given KT's previous success against Tim Duncan, I'm surprised to hear a Spurs fan think sow lowly of Thomas.

Gaddabout, there's no way you can convince anyone who's watched 2005 Amare and the new 2007 Amare that he has his full vertical.

He's easily lost 6-to-10 inches of lift. It's why you see so many layin attempts now rather than dunks. he can't get the upward thrust to dunk on opposing centers anymore. Maybe around them if he has enough space, but not on them.

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Originally Posted by JMarkJohns

He's easily lost 6-to-10 inches of lift. It's why you see so many layin attempts now rather than dunks. he can't get the upward thrust to dunk on opposing centers anymore. Maybe around them if he has enough space, but not on them.

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Amare is 6-foot-10. If he were missing 6-to-10 inches in his vertical, he shot would be blocked by any average 7-footer. I think people are misinterpreting Amare's developing low-post game, in which he is showing remarkable body control and coordination in hitting more difficult shots. He still had over 20 dunks in 5 games against the Lakers, half of them challenged by Kwame Brown, so it's not like he's throwing up bunnies in the jungle trees.

If he had a 36" vert before the knee surgery, at worst he's at 33" to 34", and at times he appears to have full extension (as I mentioned in the errant pass he corralled from Marion in Wednesday's game).

I'm sorry, but he's not anywhere near what he once was. I'd sy it's much closer to 28" to 30" vertical now. Maybe every once in a while in transition he can muster up enough lift to harken back to the Amare of 2005. But overall actual game lift is certainly lacking. Like I said, much of his quickness has returned, but his vert is, at best about 80-to-85% of what it once was, and I believe it to be closer to 75-to-80%

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Originally Posted by sunsbum

id have to disagree with you on that, amares shot was at its peak right before he had the surgery. he was almost automatic from 15 in. he seems to be getting his jumper back but its still not where it was pre knee problems.

i think alot of people, esp you guys who dont watch the suns, dont really realize how much explosiveness amare has lost. if you go on youtube and watch some highlights from two years ago, its like night and day from the old amare to todays version.

his spins where tighter, he could drive around ANYONE. he pretty much cant blow by people anymore.

i dont think he will ever be 100% again but i do think NEXT year we will be as close to the old amare as youre going to get.

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I agree with this guy. Amare is still very athletic by league standards, but he was David Robinsonesque before he got injured. He was in that tier above Dwight Howard all by himself.

It is a complete shame when players like Amare and Baron lose their unbelievable explosiveness.

It makes you realize how great they were to still be awesome after the surgery.

Amare's decline in mobitlity/explosiveness coupled with Duncan's return to health will make him a non-factor I believe. The Suns chances will rest on Kurt Thomas being able to at least slow Tim down and the improvement in Barbosa's game. Marion has never really been a factor when Bowen guards him.

The head of the snake for Phoenix is and has always been Nash. If Tony can guard him like he did Iverson then I like our chances. If he can't then it's going to be a long series that could go either way.

Regardless, it's going to be some excellent basketball and a series for the ages.

2005 Amare never came close to pulling down 20 rebounds in a PO game. That's better than the one who can put up 37 in a losing effort.

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Originally Posted by TwoHandJam

Amare's decline in mobitlity/explosiveness coupled with Duncan's return to health will make him a non-factor I believe. The Suns chances will rest on Kurt Thomas being able to at least slow Tim down and the improvement in Barbosa's game. Marion has never really been a factor when Bowen guards him.

The head of the snake for Phoenix is and has always been Nash. If Tony can guard him like he did Iverson then I like our chances. If he can't then it's going to be a long series that could go either way.

Regardless, it's going to be some excellent basketball and a series for the ages.

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Yeah, Amare is going to be a non-factor :rolleyes

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Originally Posted by mabber

Yeah, Amare is going to be a non-factor :rolleyes

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Lots of Lakers fans said the same thing, believe it or not. They were saying that Kwame Brown and Ronny Turiaf were going to contain Amare, and that the Suns were actually better off last year when they had Tim Thomas.

My guess is, a lot of fans don't follow the league, only their team. They wrote off Amare after his injury, and they won't believe he's back until reality delivers that smack.

He seems to have more upper body strength and to command more presence. As far as vertical jump he can't be more than 4 or 5 inches under 2005. On the other hand I'd rather he be thought of by the Spurs as competing at 80% and less intimidating. They may be unpleasantly surprised at the "Playoff" Amare.

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Originally Posted by UV Ray

He seems to have more upper body strength and to command more presence.

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Yeah I remember reading that your strength and conditioning coach focused more on his upper body strength to alleviate stress on his knees and lower body.

What makes Amare "only 80%" isn't his physical deficiencies... it's all in his mind. When he wants to play at 100%, he does.... that's why he would put up crap games against the Knicks and then go off with 12 straight buckets during a pivotal stretch in the 2OT game against Dallas. There's no way there can be that much physically wrong with him when he's the only Sun who played in all 82 games this season, which is a year removed from his double surgery.

There are times I've sat around and been like, "Man, he just doesn't have the lift anymore" and then he goes and grabs 20+ boards against the Spurs and has a pretty monster game back in February. Lastly, he sucked at the beginning of the year and didn't really take off until D'Antoni put him in the starting line-up. He loves the spotlight, loves going against the Spurs, and the only thing limiting him out there is his will, desire, and dedication to any semblance of defense.

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Originally Posted by THE SIXTH MAN

Yeah I remember reading that your strength and conditioning coach focused more on his upper body strength to alleviate stress on his knees and lower body.

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Yeah...I may be wrong but he does seem a little bulkier in the shoulders and upper arms. Though I'm not sure if his overall weight has increased. I'm looking forward to a great series.

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Originally Posted by RonMexico

What makes Amare "only 80%" isn't his physical deficiencies... it's all in his mind. When he wants to play at 100%, he does.... that's why he would put up crap games against the Knicks and then go off with 12 straight buckets during a pivotal stretch in the 2OT game against Dallas. There's no way there can be that much physically wrong with him when he's the only Sun who played in all 82 games this season, which is a year removed from his double surgery.

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I don't know Ron, my brother had knee surgery 2 1/2 years ago and he says he's still feeling it. He used to be an advanced skier and I can't even get him on the lift now.

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Originally Posted by UV Ray

I don't know Ron, my brother had knee surgery 2 1/2 years ago and he says he's still feeling it. He used to be an advanced skier and I can't even get him on the lift now.

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Did your brother enter the NBA at 19 yrs old and then average 37 points against a first-team All-Defensive player 2 yrs later?

My knees hurt from when I injured them in high school playing ball and I'm only 23, but I also don't stretch like I should, ice them down properly, work out my thigh muscles to take the load off them, and I wear some older shoes from time to time... Aaron Nelson is one of the best trainers in the biz and Amare has the best service money can buy - not to mention the physical specimen he is. No knock on your brother, but Amare is quite the athletic anomaly.

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Originally Posted by RonMexico

My knees hurt from when I injured them in high school playing ball and I'm only 23, but I also don't stretch like I should, ice them down properly, work out my thigh muscles to take the load off them, and I wear some older shoes from time to time... Aaron Nelson is one of the best trainers in the biz and Amare has the best service money can buy - not to mention the physical specimen he is. No knock on your brother, but Amare is quite the athletic anomaly.

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Not to be sarcastic, but if Amare was a thoroughbred they would have shot him by now. So I'm not sure that being athletically superior necessarily equates to improved recovery time. I guess what I'm saying is that everyone is different.

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Originally Posted by UV Ray

Not to be sarcastic, but if Amare was a thoroughbred they would have shot him by now. So I'm not sure that being athletically superior necessarily equates to improved recovery time. I guess what I'm saying is that everyone is different.

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That's really not true at all, despite your sarcasm. They spent millions of dollars and manhours trying to save Barbaro (who is a thoroughbred) and people even wrote him "Get Well Soon" letters as if he could read. What was one of the main reasons they wanted to keep him alive? Because they were gonna use him for breeding because he HAS SUPERIOR GENES and it would be a travesty to waste him or that sperm.

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Originally Posted by RonMexico

That's really not true at all, despite your sarcasm. They spent millions of dollars and manhours trying to save Barbaro (who is a thoroughbred) and people even wrote him "Get Well Soon" letters as if he could read. What was one of the main reasons they wanted to keep him alive? Because they were gonna use him for breeding because he HAS SUPERIOR GENES and it would be a travesty to waste him or that sperm.

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Uh...ok... On that note, I think I'll pass.

Spurs fans--don't underestimate Amare Stoudemire. You can underestimate any other player on the Suns, but don't underestimate Amare. He's going to show up big, because he loves the playoffs, he loves playing the Spurs, and he loves winning. Amare's going to have a great series, offensively and defensively...it's the rest of the Suns that I'm worried about.

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Originally Posted by UV Ray

He seems to have more upper body strength and to command more presence. As far as vertical jump he can't be more than 4 or 5 inches under 2005. On the other hand I'd rather he be thought of by the Spurs as competing at 80% and less intimidating. They may be unpleasantly surprised at the "Playoff" Amare.

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The Spurs players and coaches will not underestimate Amare, it's just some of their fans. The Spurs front line is going to have it's hands full containing him. Of course, the Suns will have their hands full with Duncan as well.

We'll do the same before--

Let Amare get his 40 points;

shut down everyone else;

same result;

Spurs in 5

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Originally Posted by mabber

Yeah, Amare is going to be a non-factor :rolleyes

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You misunderstand. Amare is going to be a non-factor not because he won't get his points but because he and Tim with cancel each other out on either side of the equation.

The matchups to look for in this series are KT-Duncan, Parker-Nash and Barbosa-Manu.

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Originally Posted by mabber

The Spurs players and coaches will not underestimate Amare, it's just some of their fans. The Spurs front line is going to have it's hands full containing him. Of course, the Suns will have their hands full with Duncan as well.

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Now you're thinking it through a bit more....

I'm not dismissive of the Suns at all... they are scary, but you cant prove to me because of recent playoff success that they will eliminate the spurs in a 7 game series.

The media acts like Amare is going to go for 30 and 20 in every game...

If that happens, the suns probably win, but I dont think he is capable of doing that...

He might have 2 games like that this series and the Suns probably win those games because rebounds = points for not just him, but kickout 3's that are hard to guard as well...

People look at Amare's numbers alone and go.. well he's so close to duncan... He's right there...

Amare is not even in Duncan's shadow.

Points and Rebounds are great, but there are several 20 pt 10 reb guys in the league (Amare isnt one by .2 reb).

Duncan is light years ahead of all of them because of his ability to read defenses, pass out of double teams, and make plays.

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Originally Posted by Gaddabout

Amare is 6-foot-10.

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Small point of contention. Only place Amare is 6'10" is in the press guide. Duncan is really 6'10" Amare? 6'8" tops.