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Spurs have won 3 rings with Tim Duncan, and the Manu and Parker pick-ups were genius, but right here, right now, I'm defending my right to say that if the Spurs front office hadn't fucked around with Stephen Jackson and pulled his contract, the Spurs would have been a fucken dynasty
Chew on that for awhile Spur fans.
:hat
Um, wasn't it Jackson who refused the Spurs' offer? I don't really recall the details but I remember that the Spurs FO did want to keep him.
DAMM DOC BROWN...where is the delorian when u need it
Spurs pulled the contract after a week. Jackson wanted to come back.
Actually Jackson has done real good and I'm real happy for him: he deserves this success. But there is really NO reason for any Spurs fan or FO pencil neck to beat themselves up overlosing himQuote:
Originally Posted by Nbadan
I don't give a shit who was at fault. All I know is that the Spurs have never really replaced the skill set at the swing position that Jackson has.
Jackson is too reckless for our style of play. He has no handles, and is a sporadic jump shooter. He was on fire this series, but he's usually very inconsistent. I still like watching the guy play, he won a Championship with us and is forever a part of the fraternity.
If Hedo Turkoglu had SJax's balls, the Spurs would be working on their fifth title in a row this year.
Nbadan is one funny mofo.
You think the players on all the former dynasties got along? No, but the coach was strong enough to put all the pieces together (or in the Bull's case it was MJ).
It's not the pencil-pushing suit that should be beating themselves over the head, it's spur fans.
No doubt Jax and Claxton would have propelled us past LA in '04. The Spurs can solidify their chances this summer by bringing in Jax type players, and I believe they will regardless of winning it all or not.
Sjax is a nuttcase and does not fit in the Spurs system.
I am happy we don't have a coach trying to fit him in the silver and black family.
I am happy he is doing well in Oakland right now with the other rowdy playas they got over there.
Jackson played like shit for the Pacers he is a guy that is talented enough to have a hot series. Would i like to still have him on the team sure, but it was him or Manu and i take Manu any day of the week and twice on Sunday.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nbadan
You may think I'm kidding, but after the Spurs traded SJ, I stopped posting about them for a long time.
The FA period is limited in duration, and if you dick around too long with your A guy, your B and C guys will be gone, too. It didn't work out for the best for SA, but I'd say in spite of getting that contract he wanted, it's been worse for Jack. He's done some monumentaly stupid things being around bad guys on bad teams. He may well end up in jail for that firearm discharge incident, which BTW was a felony. That violated his parole.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nbadan
another Jackson thread
great!
Steve didn't leave on bad terms. That was seen when the Warriors played the Spurs last month. Spurs players going to shake hands with him when he was on the bench.
Only team dumb enough to sign him for a large amount of money was the Hawks and he only signed for 1 year.
Yeah Turk was a much better choice. Spurs should have just given JACK the JACK.
Jackson won't win the championship this year don't worry. He's awesome though don't get me wrong, but its more like Jack needs the Spurs more than the Spurs need Jack to win.
You post this as if we didn't win a ring in 2005 without Jackson?
Dude hit some nice threes on a wreckless team, beat a team with no heart and now he's the massiah?
It'd be cool if we still had him, but last time i checked, we have a player out there knocking down 8 out of 9 threes in a closeout game and who isn't TURNOVER prone. Or a constant T threat.
Pfff...you think GS is gonna let Jack go now? :lmao
Only for Manu and a few first round picks, and the caveman...
Look at this loser, championing another losser.
I wwould have loved to having SJax back, especially now. The fact is though, with all that money we would have given him we might not have been able to resign Manu.
Manu > SJax
Yeah, that's not true....they could have signed both.
If the Spurs would have drafted Jackson in '99, they'd be going for nine championships in a row.
Quote:
Originally Posted by timvp
:lol
Nah, I think it took his altercation with Scott in NJ to light a fire under JACK, but he loved playing with TIM and he loved WINNING!
Manu would have had to take less, who knows if he would have done that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nbadan
LJ was mocking you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nbadan
Manu was unproven, plus the Spurs managed to squeeze out enough for Turk and Manu, so don't give me this crap that the money wasn't there, it was. Spurs had jacks bird rights, or am I wrong?
Yeah, I know, but it took JACKs time in NJ to make Jack Jack.Quote:
Originally Posted by Buddy Holly
You always say that the pulled the contract and that's never been reported anywhere.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nbadan
Jack's agent didn't return their calls. Eventually they moved on.
Why would he have to have taken less? Jack would have just gotten the contract that Barry has.Quote:
Originally Posted by sprrs
Quote:
Originally Posted by SenorSpur
Manu became a starter when Jax left and played like a star in' 05 to get us a ring. If Jax was here now either bruce would have to go or pop would play smallball the whole time.
Or Jack would just be getting Finley's minutes.Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronstampler
I'm just saying, theoretically. The money was there, but the Spurs didn't want to deal with Jack agent and POP never warmed up to JACK, at least not like he warmed up to Malik.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kori Ellis
So you know Pop on a personal level. The type of level where he discloses shit like, how he truly feels about players he coaches?
No, I just know human tendency, and POP doesn't warm up to players like Jack, hell, it took 2 trades for POP to warm up to Sean Elliott. Jack didn't have a chance.
They offered Jack more than any other team did that summer. Jack obviously did what was best for him, but it's tough to fault the team TOO MUCH (some blame is fair) when they did have the most amount of money on the counter.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nbadan
But, as good as he is looking after this series, I think it's safe to say that in hindsight, the Pacers probably don't feel like he was worth the deal they offered.
I'm not saying JACK doesn't reserve to flame out bad sometime in some series in these playoffs, such is living life on a razor's edge, especially if GS plays the Spurs, which really could happen. I'm just saying, it would have been nice to at least seen that type of fight from the Spurs last year, and maybe this year, we'll see.
Wow, this is the first time I've heard anyone say we should have kept Jack.
Cutting edge shit.
Sheeettt.....I took it personal M.F.!
:lol
It really made me question this teams commitment to winning. (Well that and the whole Jaren Jackson fiasco).
This Stephen Jackson character must be bad ass. He's probably playing for max money the way some of you guys are talking about him.
(waiting for, "You fucking idiot, Jax was on the 2003 championship team, how long have you been watching basketball?" in 5, 4, 3...)
The Spurs didn't trade Stephen Jackson. The details fade in my mind with time, but as I recall, they made him a contract offer (IIRC, a 3 year deal worth about $3M per season). Jackson thought he could command more on the open market and spurned the Spurs offer. The Spurs had to move on, because it was their summer of mega cap space and waiting around all summer for Jax to decide whether to accept the offer could have jeopardized other possible signings -- I seem to recall that as long as the offer was valid, the offer counted against the cap space (or something along those lines).Quote:
Originally Posted by Nbadan
Stephen Jackson decided to go elsewhere. It turned out that the Spurs' offer to Jax was above market that summer, since Jax ended up getting a 1 year/$1 milion deal with Atlanta. Going to Atlanta, where he didn't really have to fit into a system and where he could put up some gaudy numbers, allowed Jackson to have a good enough year that Indiana was willing to offer him a bigger deal in the summer of '04.
He did the same for us in finals in '03, and according to you the FO let him go. I remember reading that it was supposedly Jax's agent that messed up getting in touch with him about the Spurs' contract offer, and the offer lapsed. The Spurs'Quote:
Originally Posted by Nbadan
couldn't wait too long for an answer from Jax or his agent, they had to do something before they had no options left. Didn't Jax fire his agent after that?
:lolQuote:
Originally Posted by jaespur21
mike finley last game was betterQuote:
Originally Posted by Nbadan
Lets be straight about this. When Jax made the decision to spurn the Spurs offer, it wasn't about winning or loyalty or any of that shit. It was all about ego and his overblown estimate of his worth on the free agent market.
He wound up taking two million less and playing for a shitty team that had no chance of winning, but let him shoot to his heart's content and build up his PPG stats. That earned him a better contract with Indiana.
Then Indiana decided it was in their best interest to move him out of town. And it looks from a strictly basketball point of view that they were willing to get hosed in the deal to get rid of him.
Now he's playing for GS and has shown both his upside and downside. Most players would have been banned from the playoffs after two ejections so he lucked out there. Can you imagine GS having to play without him?
But that--not to mention his coming felony trial-- demonstrates a certain erratic character tendency in Jax that can jeopardize a whole team's season like a unexploded bomb that might go off any time.
On the whole, I'm happy with where we are and where he is. I hope he has success in his personal life and a productive career. However,The Spurs proved they could win a championship without him and may prove it again this year. Let's move on.
Jack and his agent thought that he could get more than $10 million guaranteed in the short run. It took a year, but they were right.
nbadan is just trolling y'all.
Shoot, I'm more upset at the Spurs F.O. letting Barbosa go. Just gave him away to Phoenix, for nothing.
i don't think the Spurs are likely to keep or would sign someone who they wouldn't be entirely surprised if they woke up some morning and found he'd shot someone , been shot or was in jail.
Sorry NBADan, but we've looked at Jackson's stats, contributions, morale builders and downers, and the record of the teams he has played for since he keft us. For far more games than not, most of us were thankful he was gone. My guess is that McGrady, Yao and the Rockets will eat his lunch in their next series. If not the Rockets, the Jazz will.
Also, he chose to leave.
shit.Quote:
Originally Posted by wildbill2u
The Spurs proved they could win more than a championship witt him and may prove it last year.
SJax>>Manu
I like Jackson as a Spur...but sometimes the guy was just all thumbs. I don't know how many times I watched him drop a hot pass. We won without him, so it's not like he's the missing link or something.
I remember reading in the Express that Summer that after Sjax couldn't get a contract anywhere else he came back to the Spurs to accept their $10m contract. We hadn't signed Hedo yet at the time so it was possible, but Pop said the team had already moved on in another direction. For whatever reason Pop didn't want to negotiate any further. Then, SJax ended up at Atlanta.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kori Ellis
Jackson wasn't and jury still out isn't grown up just yet. Malice at the palace, guns at the nudie bar, its just a matter of time before he gets traded out of GS as well, he just can't help himself. I am happy for jack the player and ex spur, but don't get carried away, he would have done something crazy eventually. He did not like pops style and it probably lead to his decision to leave. the pacers took care of him financially and we saw how he showed his gratitude. He's tough as nails and when his head is skrewd on right there are very few players i enoy watching more, but how many turnovers did he have, how many technicals and how many bad decisions. lets not get carried away with dynasty talk because of action jackson. I appreciated what Baron Davis said about Jack at the end of the game, but what chaos would he have caussed by now had he stayed .....there is a reason he's the one that got involved with Artest.
I agree with this sentiment, and here's another reason beyond the numbers why SJax and Manu wouldn't have worked in San Antonio:Quote:
Originally Posted by my2sons
SJax's ego would demand to be a starter. And he would have been in '04, with Manu coming off the bench. But the Manu of '05 was vastly superior to anything SJax can or will do in his career: better defender, more creative scorer, superior clutch player (if you can believe it). And Manu only got to that point because he was given starters minutes without another stud playing the same position. Manu would have still been coming off the bench in '05, and maybe he would still have been nasty, but he definitely wouldn't have had the court time to develop into the player he did become in this universe. Plus, we wouldn't have been able to sign Barry the summer before and wouldn't have had room to sign Finley the summer after. Those two players together on this team are worth more than SJax, IMO.
As for the salaries, Kori is right, SJax would just have Barry's contract...$5 mil/year. But don't you think Jackson (who would likely be a starter) would demand more than that? And if we swapped Manu's ~$8-9 mil/year with his salary, wouldn't we have given up the potentially three-peating sixth man of the year open to better offers from other teams?
I will say that we might have a real opportunity this summer. If I understand correctly, SJAX's hearing for parole violation is coming up soon (I believe before GSW's playoff run will be over). He will likely be sent to jail (as has been mentioned on this thread, his gun discharge was a felony). Although he would likely get out before next season, would GSW void his contract on the morals clause? (and/or incapacity to play if jailed while they are still playing). IF they do, he will effectively be a free agent. Would he be interested in coming back to SA on the cheap (I doubt any club will offer him full MLE money, due to his characte issues)...
Actually- it was twice. The first time Jax left and signed with Atlanta after the Spurs offer was 3 years- $9M. The second time the Spurs went with Barry over Jax and Hedo- partially for the $$$ savings.
Seeing as Hedo and Jack got $700k and $900k more respectively than Barry ended up with that year, I fail to see how one can claim we had room for either after signing Manu.
The current front office has helped produced 3 titles in less that 10 years. I imagine a lot of teams would like to have choked like that.
Spurs are about an inch and .5 second away from already having 5 titles, then these fuckers would not be doubting so much. Do anyone realize spurs have won about 30 of 33 games that count. Spurs should count that last game agaist Dallas as a win and the ones where scrubs played don't really matter.
I don't remember all of the particulars, but it seems plausible to me that signing Jackson might have been enough to cost the Spurs Robert Horry.Quote:
Originally Posted by ChumpDumper
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nbadan
Those were the days.
As mentioned on NBA radio this morning. SJax hit 7 3's but missed 6 layups.
I was under the impression that the Spurs didn't want to give Jax a huge contract because they wanted to save that money for Manu. Jax would have taken Barry's money.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kori Ellis