Wish I could post this back during his stripclub scandal to compare notes.
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Wish I could post this back during his stripclub scandal to compare notes.
With respect, this is the wrong question. It should be worded "Would you want Jax back if it meant Tony or Manu would have to leave?"
All things considered, he is an asset. If I could have Jax back in place of Beno, hell the fuck yeah.
If his new contract in 2004 had forced out Manu or Parker, hell the fuck no.
I'm quite the opposite of a contract expert; maybe Jax, Manu, and Parker all could have stayed on the roster together. Someone please clarify.
i think duncan would take a considerable pay cut hahaha
True.+remember that He was gone in 2003,and them we won the 2nd ring in 2005,with Brent Barry as a 2nd shooting guard,and Manu playing out of his mind in the playoffs.Quote:
Originally Posted by SRJ
YES.Quote:
All BS aside, would you really want SJax back?
Next.
Spurs could have had SJax, Manu, Parker, Duncan and Bowen and would have won the championship every year since '03.
So, uh, yeah I wish the Spurs hadn't gotten cheap and scared that he'd turn into Jaren.
<=======
Who wouldn't want that back? I knew the Jackatar would bring good luck for the first round. Now lets hope it brings luck for the second and at the very least the Spurs make it past the Suns. Golden State has already made their dent in the playoffs. :smokin
Props to Shoogar and of course the O.G. of SJackatars -- MI21
With all due respect, I'm sure the Warriors win just goes to show how short our memories are. When SJax got charged with during the stripclub fiasco, many forum members couldn't help but mention how glad SJax wasn't with the Spurs anymore. You're only as valuable as your last act I guess.
Make no mistake. Jackson has always been a fearless individual. A great quality at times, a severe flaw at others. I hope he has straightened out, because it's that version I would love to have back.
I still want SJax back. This is a retarded question.
Like timvp said, we could have won every Championship since '03 had he been on our team.
And none of that other club shit would have happened if he had been in SA under Pop.
Nellie is the best coach for Jack. Watching him this series there is no way that his wild and undisciplined ways, playing and interacting with the refs, that he could exist in a disciplined system like Pop's. So really, no it wouldn't work. He was relatively on good behaviour here but then he had success and he doesn't feel that need to behave and his self-destructive tendencies are always boilng beneath the surface, waiting to explode.
Most teams that know basketball would want him. Only stupid fans that hate wouldn't want him. And the people of Michigan. Jackson has been great most of his career and those fans deserved to have their ass kicked and if someone tries to run you over you should shoot their ass. Maybe Jackson can be Shaq's deputy when he retires.
Great thread and an even better question. I've gone over this many times ever since he left. I've always followed his progress at Atlanta, Indiana and Golden State and after all these years and careful consideration I must say that I'm glad the Spurs let him walk. He is the ultimate example of "CAN"T GET RIGHT". He has a great game but the guy has never gotten his head on straight. He was suspended in Atlanta for conduct detrimental to the team. He got the big money that he desired in Indiana where he promptly joined in the now famous Malice in the Palace brawl. He was then traded following his wild shooting incident at the strip club during training camp. Couple this with ejections in two of the playoff games in Dallas (both losses) and I have to say his behaviour issues outweigh his playing ability. I seem to recall that the Spurs offered him $10 Mil over 3 years to stay. He turned it down for, I believe, 1 mill for a year in Atlanta. I heard that after many games in San Antonio his teammates had to constantly talk to him to raise his spirits as he would slip into strange depressive funks following games (wins and losses). My understanding is that they tired of this after a couple of years and weren't broken hearted when he turned down the Spurs offer. I also seem to recall that a portion of his salary was used to re-sign Manu. S-Jax has flashes of brilliance but I don't think he could have survived in an organization as dedicated to structure and conformity as San Antonio. Sorry for the lengthy reply but as you can see I've spent alot of time pondering the "what could've been" aspects of Port Arthurs own Stephen Jackson.
No thanks. I'll take character guys over head cases any day.
I can't really think of anything to add. Perfect take.Quote:
Originally Posted by timvp
Only morons think he is a head case. He just got bad agent that would have him take one million to go to Atlanta.
Yes. I think he didnt do anything bad when he was with the Spurs.
Sure I'd take him back. So what?
The Pacers would be in the playoffs if they had not been involved in one of the worst trades ever. Sjax saved Northern Cali basketball for now. When is his contract up?
No really, he's a head case.Quote:
Originally Posted by mikejones99
Living in Indy, I've seen enough of his antics to last a lifetime.
Props to what he and his team accomplished in the Mavs series though...he did a great job, and I'm happy for him...maybe he can make a clean start in Oakland and get his life headed in the right direction. :toast
Shit, my history must be off...
I thought Jax took LESS money and left San Antonio...
If GS makes it to the WCF to meet the Spurs and SJAx starts raining 3s on us, I wonder how many of us would want him back then.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikejones99
You're right Mike. SJax is a model citizen.
Regards,
Ron Artest
Well, the Pacers are in the Eastern Conference. A lot of undeserving teams made it into the playoffs. Maybe the Pacers would've been one of them, but that wouldn't guarantee a playoff victory, and it doesn't mean that team didn't/doesn't need to wipe the slate clean and start over to make a better team in the long run.Quote:
Originally Posted by mikejones99
Perhaps, in the end, the Pacers and Sjax will be better off.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonestar
Thanks for this lengthy answer. I've been wondering how all this went down and why Jackson moved on. You've explained it perfectly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bdictjames
You guys have got to remember that was the year SA was supposedly going to sign Jason Kidd to this huge contract. If not Kidd it was supposed to be Jermaine O' Neal. The word around the camp fire was that Kidd was almost a lock to become a Spur. Had it not been for Parker crying to Pop I guess about losing his spot Kidd would have been a Spur. Kidd wasn't looking for any unnecessary headaches since he already had it good in NJ. But I can't remember if Stephen Jacko left before, or after Kidd shunned us?
hell yes. i could give a shit about what he does off the court.
Did SJax appear to get along with all his teammates while in San Antonio. It might be hard to judge as everyone seems to get along when you win the title. Just curious if anyone has any knowledge and/or opinion on this. I found it quite interesting watching the celebrating going on last night on GState sidelines. All the players were giving genuine hugs to each other and when they approached SJax they would give him a hug but you could tell it was different (almost uncomfortable).
I think he's a good player but he isn't going to keep up this pace over the course of the next 5 years. There are going to be other players with his type of talent and a third of the thug shit he brings to the table. Enjoy watching him now because I don't see this guy getting major minutes a few years from.
Davis has done the right thing with Jax and the rest of the team by empowering them to succeed. Jax responds well to getting sucked off and Baron has done this perfectly. A true testament to Barons leadership.
His game seems to blend better with GS's style. I'm glad the Spurs passed on this one.
I totally agree with this. Davis must be a sharp dude.Quote:
Originally Posted by BacktoBasics
I noticed that too.Quote:
Originally Posted by mabber
Weren't we willing to part with him as well due to the fact that we were "supposed" to be getting either Kidd or O'Neal that year? We were going to have crap loads of cap room with David retiring and we were gunning for a big time FA that year. I thought that was one of the other reasons we were willing to part with Jacko so easily. I liked his intensity too.
I've never thought of Davis as anything more than a star player who could run a good statline from time to time but after watching this series I think he's underrated and definately underrated as far a team leader goes. Hopefully he can find a way to stay healthy rather than slip through the cracks.Quote:
Originally Posted by mabber
I didn't notice that at all. His hugs with Baron/Barnes (which were the only ones I really remember) seemed like regular celebration hugs.Quote:
Originally Posted by mabber
He got along really well with everyone here - particularly Tim and Malik.
What makes us think he'd be as effective in our system as in the Warriors bizarrely frenetic style of play?
The Spurs run a set offense. Parker looks for penetration, then passes it to Finley, who shoots a trey if he's open or drops it down low to Duncan in the post. Duncan sucks the defense in, and kicks it to Manu. Something like that.
The Warriors don't have an offense that I could ever hope to describe by Xs and Os. Jax might have sank the Mavs, but I seriously doubt having Buckets go 7-7 from downtown was in the gameplan. He might have started 3-3 from outside the arc, but he was 0-7 inside of it, and I'm not sure he stays on the court with a 3-10 shooting percentage and Pop's tendency for the quick hook.
The bottom line is that Jax is a great competitor, but not a smart basketball player. He and the Warriors won this series with pure emotion and determination. That's fine, but historically playing smart wins more 'Ships. Even Robert Horry, our assassin, simply drops a series-turning 3 on an opponent and then calmly walks off the court. The Spurs are cold-blooded and lethal that way, but they're pretty damned consistent, too. They are as likely to out-think a team -- as we just saw with the Nuggets -- as overpower them.
Jax just doesn't fit as well. He'd be a nice addition to the lineup, but not at the cost of a Manu or a Parker.
Well it wasn't anything I was looking for, just something I noticed. I don't recall which particular players it was with but there were a few uncomfortable looking embraces. Apparently, someone else on here noticed it as well. No big deal.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kori Ellis
If you saw the same thing I did, I notice a slight pause when he was approached for a hug. Just like if the guy(Barnes?) thought "should I hug him?" It's nothing big, just something I noticed.Quote:
Originally Posted by mabber
I don't see why everyone thinks he would have cost Manu or Parker. He would just be making Brent Barry's money.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cry Havoc
I think his stay in SA probably would have ended like Malik Rose's. He wouldn't have done anything near as bad as in Indiana but he would have found a way to get in Pop's doghouse.
Well do you prefer Jackson to Manu because Jackson can not play like he did last night and still have Manu getting the minutes he gets and doing what he does.
In a heart beat. he was a bit wild, but was controllable under our system. Without him, we don't win the 03 trophy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by florige
I thought I had deleted the thread while trying to edit it or something. Didn't know it had been merged in with the Jackson thread. Sorry..
The Spurs pulled the contract after a week and chose to 'go another direction', gee, Spur fans have short memories when it comes to front-office fuck-ups.Quote:
I seem to recall that the Spurs offered him $10 Mil over 3 years to stay. He turned it down for, I believe, 1 mill for a year in Atlanta.
Im not sure, yeah he is a different player than he was, but he takes too many crazy shots and is more of a thug. Granted pop would put him in check, but I guess I wouldnt mind if we didnt lose anything.
Nah, he sucks.
I would take him back in a second! He brought that fire and passion that I'm worried the spurs are lacking now.
It's not just "talent" that JAX brings to the table; he is a cold blooded assasain with no fear. He has ice in his veins. That is a trait that doesn't come along too often - see dirk. He's long, tough defensively, has a good stroke, no fear, and lives to take the big shot. If we had resigned him, we would have won in 06.Quote:
Originally Posted by BacktoBasics
His Defense on Dirk really impressed me, if we have him last year we beat the mavs.
Some interesting versions of history in this thread.
I didn't realized we "passed" on Kidd because of Tony's crying.
As I remember Jax passed on a Spurs offer that was widely considered as reasonable/good (even by some of his biggest fans on this board). He felt disrespected and thought he could get more elsewhere - he did after a year, so I guess he was right.
I don't believe that what a player does off the court has no influence on how he plays on the court. It would be nice if they could keep it separate and isolated, but in real life it's not how it works. As much as I enjoyed watching him kill the Mavs, the answer is still no, I don't want him back. In my opinion he would become an issue in San Antonio and that would disrupt the team. I feel that his negatives still outweigh his (many) positives.
just maybe denver would have made a formal offer and manu would not have been matchedQuote:
Originally Posted by Kori Ellis
manu>sj
tp was not happy but kidd came to sa and duncan went to see kiddQuote:
Originally Posted by Slomo
I do not think spurs passed on kidd
kidd said FUCK the spurs
if he did not turn the ball overQuote:
Originally Posted by shyne
I know it was Jason's decision - hence the quotes in my post. But I was refering to the ridiculous spin in the post below.Quote:
Originally Posted by ducks
Quote:
Originally Posted by florige
oh my bad did not read that
tired
Id take him quick!! People always put him down for the thuggishness he brings. But truth is...at times the Spurs could use that. Him and Malik are the only Spurs in recent memory I know that could throw their weight around like that. And the offense we run is alot better for him than the gs offense. If we had him this year I would do the same thing we did in 03. Start him with manu cominig off the bench. That formula was pretty effective in 03.
If SJax had stayed around, he and Manu would have competed for the starting job. Manu starting helped his development, though with his talent, he might have come along fine on the bench until he beat SJax out fair and square. If SJax were more of a team player, that wouldn't be a problem. If he could simply come out from the bench for high minutes (sort of as Manu does now) and score, then that would have been great.
But that was not and is not SJax. I watched him throw hissyfits and temper tantrums when he got yanked in games that he was shooting cold in favor of Manu. I watched him act sullenly. Manu wins that starting job and SJax becomes a bench cancer, and possibly doesn't score well at all, making it worse. And as for Manu - either he doesn't gain the maturity and experience to have done his thing in 2005 (so he is resigned for less) or he goes to another team. I just can't see his development happening in a similar way if SJax stays.
Beyond that, I thought his offer was a pretty good one, all things considered. He was a decent player, but a streaky shooter who pouted. $10 million/3 years sounded just about perfect to me. He felt otherwise. He tested other waters, and eventually found a place willing to pay more.
All things considered, no I don't think I would want him to have stayed. Having him again might be a different issue, but likely not.
Jack was never a cancer here, nor did he throw temper tantrums about Manu getting more time than him. He enjoyed the disciplined environment and repeatedly has said he needs it. He was a good guy in the locker room and good friends with Tim, Malik, etc.
There's 96 minutes available each game at the swingspots - there was plenty of playing time to be split between Manu, Bowen and Jack in a three swingman rotation. There would have been no issue about not enough playing time. 33/33/30 or however you want to split it up - Manu only plays 27 mpg anyway.
I'm not even sure the Spurs ever made a real offer to him that summer, but I do know that his agent chose not to return the Spurs phone calls and take him elsewhere. His agent is one of the worst to deal with in the league, and everyone knows that. In the end, it worked out for Jack financially, but if he would have busted in Atlanta that year, he could have ended up with not very much.
Didn't we bring Barry in AFTER we had signed Manu?Quote:
Originally Posted by Kori Ellis
That's my remembrance. It was after Jax decided to spurn the Spurs offer and go for bigger money through FA. It's rewriting history to say, well, he would just be getting the money of some player who was signed after he left.Quote:
Originally Posted by MannyIsGod
KIDD wasn't looking for any unnecessary headaches. Bold out in the post where it said that we ever passed on Kidd for me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Slomo
I guess if you had bothered to actually finish reading the post first you would have understood I guess... The Post didn't say that WE PASSED on Kidd. The post was saying that one of the reasons that Kidd did shun us was due to the fact that TP was already addressing Pop on PT issues and Kidd didn't want to be any part of any controversy by him already not having it too bad in Jersey already. Note they had just been to the Finals FOR THE 2ND TIME.
Jack may be available after his stint at Jackson MI prison for violating his parole.
I think he'll probably get the rich athelete or celebrity treatment and not serve any time--unlike the regular schmo who doesn't have the money for a good lawyer and star status.Quote:
Originally Posted by exstatic
jack is the one that wanted the guarantee starting postion in his contract (which spurs said HELL No to)
spurs offered him good money and he said no
no one offered more
:lolQuote:
Originally Posted by florige
So Kidd refused the Spurs offer because he was worried about poor little Tony's feeling. Kidd (then concidered as the best PG in the league) taking away playing time from a second year player would have been such a huge controversy the NBA would have been changed forever.
Yes, Jason Kidd always striked me as a sensitive soul.
Of course I want him back. That 2003 team was a monster at closing out games with Parker, Manu, Jack at the swing positions.
Would the Spurs have been able to sign Horry as well as keep SJax?
Offer me the '03 Jackson, I'd sell newspapers on the streetcorner to help pay for that SJax version.
Reality, times and events have steered his life towards other paths and now he feels somewhat in control of his life. I imagine that feels gratifying to him. What GSW did was larger than life and SJax loves stepping onto a big stage like that after '03 season with Spurs.
10 million was not enough?Quote:
Originally Posted by Clutch20
god damn people learn how to move on with ur lives...jackson is gone and he will never be back...we need to talk about bringing back devin brown not jackson who will be in prison before he ever wins another ring...get a grip
:lol We shouldn't be pining for Jack but we should be pining for Devin.
And Malik.
And Rasho.
It's like there are only five players in the potential Spurs' player pool, and they've all already been Spurs.
hell bring me the iceman
QFTQuote:
Originally Posted by ChumpDumper
There is no doubt that Jack can help Spurs more than Barry but he isn't the only player in that case.
Given all his off court troubles and the fact that he has struggled with Pacers (let me remind people that Spurs system isn't run&gun like Warriors), there are a lot of nba players I take over Jackson.
Agree, what was going through his mind.Quote:
Originally Posted by ducks
I've made some career decisions through the years, and a couple of them I wish I could of changed.
SJax parting with 10 million, just how seductive was that whispering in his ear.
His head was in the clouds, ring on his finger, and brain switch was turned off.
But I'd want him back, the part of me that goes through our scoring droughts. :lol
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slomo
I don't know, since you seem to know the guy so well I guess you would know the REAL reason why he didn't come to being as though we had plenty of cap space at the time and money shouldn't had been an issue. And again as I said in my post ONE of the reasons. I only go by what I read and for real it doesn't even matter anymore.
Jack would provide the one thing the Spurs don't have...the guy who can ball when everything else has broken down. He proved that in Game 6 of the '03 WCF. The Steve Kerr Personality Cult or whatever will always deny it, but it was Jack who ended that series, not Stevie Wonder. He's a clutch player and while he may turn the ball over or squeeze off a clip outside of a strip club he would be a huge part of the Spurs today if not for whatever went down in the summer of '03.
Yes. They used their caproom to sign Manu, then resigned Parker using Bird rights and signed Barry using exception money. That's all fucked up if Jack re-signs for too much. They needed the caproom for Manu, since he only played two years on his original deal, and they didn't have Bird rights. We might have lost him like GS lost Senor Hibachi to a team swooping in and throwing a wad of cash at him. At the time, I believe that non-Bird players could only be matched to the MCE. GS was furious and I think the NBA changed the rule to match to any amount a year or two later.Quote:
Originally Posted by MannyIsGod
Bring back Jackson.
Do it Front Office.
Never let him go to Phoenix.
I think he's already gotten that for the Malice in the Palace, and fucked it up with that weapons violation. Shit, Paris Hilton is going to the slammer for 45 days for probation violation and driving w/ a suspended license a few times.Quote:
Originally Posted by wildbill2u