Spurs vs. Suns Game 4 - Grades

*sigh*. I agree completely with timvp, this is the most let-down and mad I've been, ah well, thank god it just hit 6 PM, I can finally drink without feeling like an alkie.

But anyway, Pop messed up his rotation and substitution patterns. More than that, for a guy whose praised universally around the league for drawing up the best plays out of timeouts, that Finley fadeaway was damn pathetic. Their end-game plays were vanilla and showed a distinct lack of imagination.

Duncan was in foul trouble, granted, but by the time the Spurs needed him in the fourth quarter his rhythm was so off he couldn't come through for them.

I'll give credit to Ginobili for staying aggressive, and honestly, right at the end of the game he had a great shot at the rim, he just missed it. Parker tried his best to force the issue and carry the team.

The Suns did just enough to stay in the game and wait for the right moment to take the game. But, this was a Spurs loss, Nash was doing everything possible in the fourth to lose this game...turning the ball over twice on consecutive possessions (IIRC). Spurs didn't capitalize, didn't play with poise or mental toughness and just choked the game away. Ye gods, I need a drink. :drunk

Why doesn't Pop play Barry as a backup for Parker....??? Instead of letting Vaughn start Suns runs....

Manu F- - - - - - -

Im still too gotdamn pissed to make a comment.

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Originally Posted by Aggie Hoopsfan

Holy shit, criticism of Pop :wow

The bonehead decision of the game by Pop was calling a timeout when we were up 5 with momentum, substituting Vaughn for Parker, and watching Marion grab an easy steal from Vaughn and all momentum from the Spurs. :pctoss
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Weirdest substitution patterns Ive seen in a while, Even the timeouts he was calling were badly timed. Whats weird on that play is that he put parker back in like 40 secs later :wtf

Ginobili should take a large part of the blame. This is about the 5 or 6th consecutive game Ive seen the Spurs use Ginobili as their primary ballhandler and shot maker in the 4th and he has yet to deliver he had some costly to's and forced the issue...he deserves the F.

Im simply in shock over the Spurs. That's 2 seasons in a row they've lost to teams they are clearly better than due to choke jobs and an inability to execute during crunchtime. They were better than Dallas last season and couldn't get the job done and they're better than the Suns and there's no way they'll win this series now. They have the talent, it falls on Pop's bad execution and coaching in crunch time.

Barry should have receved bowen's playing time in the 4th when the suns were on their run and the SPurs couldn't get stops. Also, putting bowen on nash is a mistake, a stubborn one which may ultimately cost them. Bowen cannot slow down or stop nash throughout the game. no one can, stick parker on him let bowen help with the drives. bowen needs to help shut down other players...marion, diaw, bell, etc. It's a joke that Pop is going away from the game plan that helped him beat the Suns in 5 2 years ago.....

tony needs to do a better job running the offense after initial penetration is closed off. he should really be used to it by now. work the ball around and get a shot.

Just a forgettable, tragic 4th quarter. The only consolation is that the series is 2-2, where most thought it would be before it started. Obviously, its what went on between that matters, and that 4th quarter was atrocious. You got the feeling that the Spurs got nervous, gripped and were just trying to hold on. They left their brains in the third quarter, not mention their hearts.

One thing is for certain, tomorrow's game will be awesome, win or lose. The Phoenix fans will be rabid as well.

L.J. called out Spurs fans and I must admit it did seem awfully quiet at times. It seemed that before the game there was lots of cheering.

I think the worst part is losing in a classless way. If they had done it and just choked you could say ok, onto Game 5 maybe. But because of they way they played at the end, now the Suns have even more confidence that they're in the Spurs heads and the Spurs showed they have a weakness in executing and letting their emotions get in the way of close games. It happened countless times against the Mavs last season, yes the refs made bad calls, but you get up and play through it.

Spurs fans always wanted an "enforcer" to take a guy out...now that they're not labeled as soft and you got your wish, how many wish they were soft again?

Great game last night... :fro

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Originally Posted by leemajors

tony needs to do a better job running the offense after initial penetration is closed off. he should really be used to it by now. work the ball around and get a shot.

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Nonsense, he can be the hero, err zero, by going one on three two straight trips, early in the shot clock I might add, and come up with nothing but helping Phoenix seize control.

Last night illustrated two very succinct points about our Spurs:

1. For all the times Pop gets it right, and for all the criticism of guys like Manu, Finley, and Parker, Pop is just as responsible for our playoff failures as anyone else. His substitutions last night were horrid and contributed to noticeable momentum shifts (particularly in the 2nd and 3rd quarters when we had Phoenix on the ropes).

He should donate his paycheck to charity for drawing up a turnaround fadeaway jumper for Finley out of our last timeout, but then again I don't expect too much for him as far as x's and o's go - the guy just isn't that good at it.

Bowen hasn't been able to check Nash save the last 2-3 minutes of game 3. It's time Pop recognizes this, lets Parker stay in front of Nash with his speed, and sicks Bowen on one of Marion or Bell.

Bowen also needs called out for sagging off Raja to help with Thomas driving on Elson. WTF man?

The sad fact about Pop is that Larry Brown has rubbed off on him in that he has an overreliance upon veterans for the post-season, to the point he has marginalized any youth on the roster.

Which leads to guys like Finley choking away games for us when it matters.

2. We have no one on this team with a killer instinct. This is twice we've let Phoenix back in this series with them on the ropes. We let Dallas pull one out last year.

Duncan was looking like the dagger man here in this series, but then he flips out about some double teams tonight? Double teams? Gee Tim, never seen those before in your 10 year career. :rolleyes What a joke.

Not to delve into the I miss ______ whoever talk, but does anyone think this meltdown happens with Buckets still here?

He should still be a Spur (and captain clutch for us), but management was afraid to pay him 10 mil over 3 years, and instead went with the Larry Brown principle of getting veterans in - i.e., Barry and Finley.

And here we are, a couple of years later, and Buckets kills Dallas in the decisive game in the series while playing with a one legged point guard, meanwhile we get Finley choking when it matters against Phoenix.

The front office leadership of this franchise needs an overhaul, and Pop needs to get off his Larry Brownesque "I only want veterans on my team" bent if we're ever going to win another title during the Tim Duncan era.

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Originally Posted by Testing

Spurs fans always wanted an "enforcer" to take a guy out...now that they're not labeled as soft and you got your wish, how many wish they were soft again?

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Don't you see the masterful way the Suns have used media gamesmanship to get an edge in this series? Isn't it apparent that the refs are focusing on the Spurs now?
The rap on the Spurs was that they're too soft...the Suns turned that around, and today we made it worse by playing right into their hands at the end of the game.
Game 5 will be called the Suns way, book it.

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Originally Posted by Aggie Hoopsfan

Nonsense, he can be the hero, err zero, by going one on three two straight trips, early in the shot clock I might add, and come up with nothing but helping Phoenix seize control.

Last night illustrated two very succinct points about our Spurs:

1. For all the times Pop gets it right, and for all the criticism of guys like Manu, Finley, and Parker, Pop is just as responsible for our playoff failures as anyone else. His substitutions last night were horrid and contributed to noticeable momentum shifts (particularly in the 2nd and 3rd quarters when we had Phoenix on the ropes).

He should donate his paycheck to charity for drawing up a turnaround fadeaway jumper for Finley out of our last timeout, but then again I don't expect too much for him as far as x's and o's go - the guy just isn't that good at it.

Bowen hasn't been able to check Nash save the last 2-3 minutes of game 3. It's time Pop recognizes this, lets Parker stay in front of Nash with his speed, and sicks Bowen on one of Marion or Bell.

Bowen also needs called out for sagging off Raja to help with Thomas driving on Elson. WTF man?

The sad fact about Pop is that Larry Brown has rubbed off on him in that he has an overreliance upon veterans for the post-season, to the point he has marginalized any youth on the roster.

Which leads to guys like Finley choking away games for us when it matters.

2. We have no one on this team with a killer instinct. This is twice we've let Phoenix back in this series with them on the ropes. We let Dallas pull one out last year.

Duncan was looking like the dagger man here in this series, but then he flips out about some double teams tonight? Double teams? Gee Tim, never seen those before in your 10 year career. :rolleyes What a joke.

Not to delve into the I miss ______ whoever talk, but does anyone think this meltdown happens with Buckets still here?

He should still be a Spur (and captain clutch for us), but management was afraid to pay him 10 mil over 3 years, and instead went with the Larry Brown principle of getting veterans in - i.e., Barry and Finley.

And here we are, a couple of years later, and Buckets kills Dallas in the decisive game in the series while playing with a one legged point guard, meanwhile we get Finley choking when it matters against Phoenix.

The front office leadership of this franchise needs an overhaul, and Pop needs to get off his Larry Brownesque "I only want veterans on my team" bent if we're ever going to win another title during the Tim Duncan era.

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well, if parker goes back on nash who checks barbosa? tony has been guarding him a good amount of the time bowen spends on nash. i don't think anyone else could do quite as good a job on him. what i don't like about bowen on nash is phoenix automatically runs pick and roll and gets duncan to switch on nash, which generally means an easy bucket for amare.

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Originally Posted by Capt Bringdown

The rap on the Spurs was that they're too soft...the Suns turned that around, and today we made it worse by playing right into their hands at the end of the game.
Game 5 will be called the Suns way, book it.

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I really think Spurs will win Game 5. They are mad because of this loss, just like they were mad after Game 2.

The question remains if they can win Game 6 or 7. The meltdown really took away my confidence in this team, and after the choke job against Dallas last year...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Aggie Hoopsfan

Nonsense, he can be the hero, err zero, by going one on three two straight trips, early in the shot clock I might add, and come up with nothing but helping Phoenix seize control.

Last night illustrated two very succinct points about our Spurs:

1. For all the times Pop gets it right, and for all the criticism of guys like Manu, Finley, and Parker, Pop is just as responsible for our playoff failures as anyone else. His substitutions last night were horrid and contributed to noticeable momentum shifts (particularly in the 2nd and 3rd quarters when we had Phoenix on the ropes).

He should donate his paycheck to charity for drawing up a turnaround fadeaway jumper for Finley out of our last timeout, but then again I don't expect too much for him as far as x's and o's go - the guy just isn't that good at it.

Bowen hasn't been able to check Nash save the last 2-3 minutes of game 3. It's time Pop recognizes this, lets Parker stay in front of Nash with his speed, and sicks Bowen on one of Marion or Bell.

Bowen also needs called out for sagging off Raja to help with Thomas driving on Elson. WTF man?

The sad fact about Pop is that Larry Brown has rubbed off on him in that he has an overreliance upon veterans for the post-season, to the point he has marginalized any youth on the roster.

Which leads to guys like Finley choking away games for us when it matters.

2. We have no one on this team with a killer instinct. This is twice we've let Phoenix back in this series with them on the ropes. We let Dallas pull one out last year.

Duncan was looking like the dagger man here in this series, but then he flips out about some double teams tonight? Double teams? Gee Tim, never seen those before in your 10 year career. :rolleyes What a joke.

Not to delve into the I miss ______ whoever talk, but does anyone think this meltdown happens with Buckets still here?

He should still be a Spur (and captain clutch for us), but management was afraid to pay him 10 mil over 3 years, and instead went with the Larry Brown principle of getting veterans in - i.e., Barry and Finley.

And here we are, a couple of years later, and Buckets kills Dallas in the decisive game in the series while playing with a one legged point guard, meanwhile we get Finley choking when it matters against Phoenix.

The front office leadership of this franchise needs an overhaul, and Pop needs to get off his Larry Brownesque "I only want veterans on my team" bent if we're ever going to win another title during the Tim Duncan era.

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You should be calling out Ginobili, not Parker :wtf

Parker had two key assists from his drives to the basket which drew defenders in and left Finley for 2 3 pointers. Then in crunchtime he was the only spur who drove to the basket and got to the foul line.

Ginobili meanwhile in that timeframe took 2 bad 3 pointers, tried to isolate and drive to the rim when clearly there was no room to and didn't even try to pass out to a teammate. Poor decision making, which has been a trend with him for a while now. Spurs fan want 2005 manu and expect him to be when in reality he's not even close to that. Parker should be ur primary ball handler and defender on Nash/Barbosa. Why cant coaches see that?

parker did set up finley nicely, but he did make several bad decisions in the last 2 minutes which resulted in poor shots for teammates. he wasn't alone though, tim looked bewildered when the doubles came instead of waiting for them and making his move.

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Originally Posted by Testing

You should be calling out Ginobili, not Parker :wtf

Parker had two key assists from his drives to the basket which drew defenders in and left Finley for 2 3 pointers. Then in crunchtime he was the only spur who drove to the basket and got to the foul line.

Ginobili meanwhile in that timeframe took 2 bad 3 pointers, tried to isolate and drive to the rim when clearly there was no room to and didn't even try to pass out to a teammate. Poor decision making, which has been a trend with him for a while now. Spurs fan want 2005 manu and expect him to be when in reality he's not even close to that. Parker should be ur primary ball handler and defender on Nash/Barbosa. Why cant coaches see that?

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I call out Parker for his dumb one on three drive that he got stuffed on (and worse, he wasn't even trying to score, just draw a foul), and for taking a jumper early on the next possession (like 16 seconds on the shot clock) when we needed to run some clock.

Those two possessions killed us, and no one else on the Spurs touched the ball on either possession.

Wow, I guess Spurs fans like Ginobili?

Because from what I saw, he's the one that cost you the game. 10 points the entire game, botched layups/TO's settling for 3 pointers, going one on one instead of passing when he should and passing when he should score...he's been doing this 3 games out of 4. When he is supposedly your team's 2nd best player, you should expect slightly more than that....

I'm so pissed that I can't stand that.

I'm gonna kill myself


:hang

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Originally Posted by Testing

Wow, I guess Spurs fans like Ginobili?

Because from what I saw, he's the one that cost you the game. 10 points the entire game, botched layups/TO's settling for 3 pointers, going one on one instead of passing when he should and passing when he should score...he's been doing this 3 games out of 4. When he is supposedly your team's 2nd best player, you should expect slightly more than that....

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He's supposed to be third, behind Tony and Tim...

But he's hitting rock bottom now. There's a reason Finley is starting.

Pulling TD after #5 threw the Spurs off track.

duncan looked confused and his teamates say that and choked

I've only got one comment and who will fallow me will fallow


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:pctoss

tmvp: A! :clap

but the only one I disagree with is Tony and Oberto grades.
Oberto was well in marking Amare and drew foul Stoudemire, good job some offense, made Nash´s turnover in critical moment, he played smart basket.
Elson B+ and Oberto B? I think Oberto B+ or A-

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Originally Posted by leemajors

tony needs to do a better job running the offense after initial penetration is closed off. he should really be used to it by now. work the ball around and get a shot

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I agree.

Id give Duncan a D. He was the one who guarded Amare over those 4 easy points, I think he could have somehow stopped that.

But I agree, foul trouble shook the rhythm of the big guy.

Elson did nothing spectacular and nothing special either, so he deserved a decent grade.

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Originally Posted by timvp

timvp rant
I have never been as pissed off at, disappointed in, ashamed of or disenchanted by the Spurs as I am right now. That was simply a pitiful performance. Pitiful. The Suns were ready to roll over and die numerous times throughout the game. The Spurs showed absolutely no killer instinct and kept fvcking around until they managed to choke that game off Maverick style. It was just disgusting how many opportunities they had to seal the game. This is the second time this series the Spurs have shown no killer instinct and it could have very well have ended their run. It's just a shame that a team so good hasn't shown the will or the heart needed in two games out of four. Just a shame.
Grade: B+

Tim Duncan
Duncan came down off of his all-world status in Game 4. He was still solid overall, but far from his Game 3 performance. In Game 3 he finished without a turnover. In Game 4 he had six costly turnovers. He was plagued by foul trouble and that took him out of his rhythm completely in the fourth quarter.
Grade: B-


Manu Ginobili
I guess Ginobili was just making a cameo appearance in Game 3. This game, he was back to struggling. The Spurs' second best playoff player can't be going 3-for-14 in huge playoff games. To his credit, he was at times aggressive and tried to fight through his struggles. He just didn't have it.
Grade: C-


Tony Parker
Parker led the team in scoring and assists (23 and 7) but his decision making in the fourth quarter could be called into question. He was trying to take over the game himself offensively, which given the circumstances of Ginobili struggling and Duncan in foul trouble could have been the right idea. But more times than not he led empty drives when the Spurs needed it the most.
Grade: C


Bruce Bowen
At times, Bowen's defense was very good. At other times, it was downright horrid. He made perhaps the worst defensive decision of his career in the third quarter when he left Raja Bell open in the corner to double team on a driving Kurt Thomas. Thomas found Bell with one on the shot clock and Bell buried a three. It was a horrible decision and Pop pulled him right away.
Grade: D+


Francisco Elson
Elson came off the bench and looked a little more comfortable than usual. He had a dunk, rebound and a steal in five minutes.
Grade: B+


Michael Finley
Finley was the only Spur to hit big shots in the fourth quarter. He hit a couple threes in the final stanza to keep the Spurs up. But it wasn't enough to prevent the pending collapse. On the other hand, Finley forced a lot of shots early that were unnecessary. He also missed a big jumper late in the game.
Grade: C+


Brent Barry
Barry played a second consecutive quality game. He led the Spurs in +/- for the second game in a row (+8). He's shown great determination and smarts and should have earned even more minutes in upcoming games. He had nothing to do with this loss.
Grade: A-


Fabricio Oberto
Oberto got his first start of the playoffs and played decent. He had some good moments and some crafty play. His defense wasn't spectacular, but he did an okay job on that end of the court. It was a pretty steady game from Oberto.
Grade: B


Robert Horry
Horry led the Spurs in the first half with four assists. He was being his typical smart self ... until he leveled Steve Nash at the end of the game. That was a horribly classless play that was uncalled for. That's not what the Spurs are about.
Grade: F


Jacque Vaughn
Vaughn hit his first two jumpers. That probably turned out to be a bad thing for the Spurs. It made Vaughn more aggressive and an aggressive Vaughn is a bad Vaughn. He's just not talented enough to do anything other than bring up the ball and pass it to someone else in the playoffs.
Grade: C


Pop
Horrible. Even if the Spurs won this game, it would have still been a horribly coached game by Pop. The magic touch he seemed to have in Game 3 was gone in Game 4. He would put Vaughn in the game at the exact wrong times and that would lead to runs by the Suns. But my major beefs with Pop come in the fourth quarter. When Duncan picks up his fifth foul, no way you sit him as long as Pop sat him. By doing so, Pop let the Suns get right back in the game and took Duncan out of any rhythm he might have had. What Pop should have done is put Duncan in the game and tell him to play his regular style. If he fouls out, he fouls out. You don't sit him until it's too late to regain momentum. On top of that, Pop had some horrid offensive ideas in the fourth. Calling plays for Finley and Ginobili late in the fourth? Did he forget that Duncan was on the court? Did he forget that Ginobili had been struggling all night? The cherry on top was wasting all his timeouts ... especially the last one. When you go down three with 30 something seconds to go and you only have one timeout, you NEVER take it at that point. You save that timeout until you need it the most. Taking the timeout at the point that they did essentially ended the game. In about ever way a coach can F up, Pop F'ed up.
Grade: F

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Pretty dead on except for Ginobili. If the grade is supposed to be based on his value to the team as a reflection of his talent and abilities, then this C- was not even close to a low average game for MANU. This game was a D- or F because so much rode on his shoulders at times and he failed to deliver. shooting 3-14 is a disaster far below his average value.

I still love the guy, but this was a game where he let us down.