Horry should be suspended for....

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Originally Posted by JMarkJohns

There are two things pissing me off in this forum. The delight in the potential Suns suspensions by Spurs fans, and the arguement that the hit wasn't really that hard. WTF? Are you kidding me? I'm not saying Nash didn't play it up. He may have. But Horry threw his bigger body/shoulder into a smaller guard rounding a corner (therefore slightly off balance as a moving object has less control when in turn, note rollovers) in a very promt fashion. Horry clearly and intentionally leveled Nash. Whether it was meant to be that hard, I don't know, but you can't just so wrecklessly slam yourself into a player.

It was intentional, it was very hard, and it was unnecessary. Whether it was that hard, or surprising isn't any justification for his action.

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The hit was hard. Horry will be suspended. There's no argument on those points. My point is that Nash's playing it up, to whatever degree, actually backfired as his teammates angrily rushed to his defense. I presume you know that, so I won't bother to keep repeating it.

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Originally Posted by JMarkJohns

Horry clearly and intentionally leveled Nash.

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Did you catch the rage in Nash's face as he got up and went straight to Horry? He obviously lost control of his emotions too. He is usually level-headed and circumspect. I have never seen Nash that angry.

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Originally Posted by TDMVPDPOY

all of a sudden horry is massenburg about time we have an enforcer

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You must not know what an enforcer is. They don't wait until garbage time of a critical loss to draw a suspension from the league by clobbering someone half their size. Not remotely logical.

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Originally Posted by Obstructed_View

I'm not convinced that Horry was just making sure that Nash didn't whiz around him. When Horry sees Finley touch Nash and the refs don't call it, and when the clock is winding down, and when Horry knows that Nash is smaller and quicker, he's got to make a split second decision. He also knows that if he flagrant fouls Nash, the game is over, but he also knows that if Nash gets by him, the game is over.

BTW, if I hit a guy and he flopped to make it look worse, I wouldn't try to help his ass up. I'm just sayin'.

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At the time, he didn't know only the Suns would react. It would have gone a long way to defuse the situation for both sides had Horry at least looked like he was sorry his contact caused such a violent collision. Even if he wasn't.

There are way too many assumptions being made about Nash right now. You mention Nash was coming around the corner. OK, I really don't think he expected a body-check. It's not hockey. It's not a move that's common in the NBA. Not even late in games. I'm sure he was flung. I'm also sure he attempted to make sure it was a flagrant by staying down longer than he needed to, but that doesn't lessen the strength of impact.

You said yourself it appeared/sounded as if Horry hit him hard. If Horry's split- second decision/loss of control is now being semi-justified on these boards, than where's the same consideration for Amare's split-second decision/loss of control?

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Originally Posted by TDMVPDPOY

all of a sudden horry is massenburg about time we have an enforcer

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Alas in these days of the pussified NBA the enforcer has gone the way of the dodo. In the old days the 12th guy would come off the Suns bench, level Horry, and we'd call it a day.

I'm glad we finally have a reputation as being dirty. That's what we need, to intimidate opponents.

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Originally Posted by JMarkJohns

You said yourself it appeared/sounded as if Horry hit him hard. If Horry's split- second decision/loss of control is now being semi-justified on these boards, than where's the same consideration for Amare's split-second decision/loss of control?

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You are trying to justify not punishing Amare for breaking the rules. I'm trying to justify not turning Robert Horry into Kermit Washington. Big fucking difference. If we are going to have this discussion you are going to pretty much have to accept that, if we go by the letter of the law, Amare will probably be suspended.

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Originally Posted by Obstructed_View

The hit was hard. Horry will be suspended. There's no argument on those points. My point is that Nash's playing it up, to whatever degree, actually backfired as his teammates angrily rushed to his defense. I presume you know that, so I won't bother to keep repeating it.

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Yeah... we keep playing post tag. I respond to one of your earlier responses, then you respond to my response as I to another of yours and so on...

We both seem to be on a similar page. We both seem to agree Horry intentionally hit Nash hard, but maybe not as hard as Nash made it seem, but hard enough to send him flying back a good bit, letting imbalance and and momentum do the rest.

We both seem to agree that it's lame that Amare and/or Diaw will get suspended based on a gut reaction to an unnecessary action at the tale end of an emotional game.

OK... I'm done. My nerves are finally down enough I feel tired.

Good night all. Hopefully Jackson has good news for this series come tomorrow.

EDIT: Last thing. I'm not implying, nor ever have said Horry's action was equal to Kermit's. I'm saying I'm sick of hearing fans lessen Horry's action by saying Nash flopped and hammed it up based on nothing but assumption. There aren't many concrete facts here, but one of the few is Horry leveling up, and lowering an upperbody hit on a smaller player, and that said hit was unnecessary.

That's it. All my contention is against such. Not you, OV, not Horry, though I still hate him, but that's long-stemming hatred, not on the Spurs, though I can't say I'm not a little miffed right now.

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Originally Posted by JMarkJohns

Yeah... we keep playing post tag. I respond to one of your earlier responses, then you respond to my response as I to another of yours and so on...

We both seem to be on a similar page. We both seem to agree Horry intentionally hit Nash hard, but maybe not as hard as Nash made it seem, but hard enough to send him flying back a good bit, letting imbalance and and momentum do the rest.

We both seem to agree that it's lame that Amare and/or Diaw will get suspended based on a gut reaction to an unnecessary action at the tale end of an emotional game.

OK... I'm done. My nerves are finally down enough I feel tired.

Good night all. Hopefully Jackson has good news for this series come tomorrow.

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I predict at least a game for horry and one for Amare and Diaw. There might be some fines thrown in or various technicals. Horry pretty much fucked any chance at a fun series. The Spurs have been blown out this year by teams missing a superstar, so expect a Suns win in game 5.

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Originally Posted by JMarkJohns

I'm not sure if it's stupidity, though I won't question that Amare can be pretty dense sometimes. I think it was just emotions. He's a very emotional player, and this was a very emotional game. If you look at the pictures, everyone on the Suns bench was shocked and standing as if they were going to do something. Had a few of the Suns assistant coaches actually cared enough to turn and make sure player like Amare and Diaw weren't sneaking more than a step or two away from the bench, perhaps this doesn't happen.

I think it's pretty silly to tell an emotional human being to not react in a heated game like this. They aren't rebots. They won't all be able to handle the reaction the same way. Expecting perfection is absurd. I mean, we're talking a split second here. I imagine an anger emotion travels just as fast as a calming one.

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True, true....yes all true. Emotions played a big part in it and I'm not sure if Spurs bench wouldnt't have done the exact same thing (esp. if Horry was on the bench, considering his actions tonight). But I had to take a little stab at amare...playoff smack talk. Although...I do think it would be more likely that spurs bench would head to parker if he got knocked down like that...but again, no one can say when emotions get involved.

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Originally Posted by JMarkJohns

There are two things pissing me off in this forum. The delight in the potential Suns suspensions by Spurs fans, and the arguement that the hit wasn't really that hard. WTF? Are you kidding me? I'm not saying Nash didn't play it up. He may have. But Horry threw his bigger body/shoulder into a smaller guard rounding a corner (therefore slightly off balance as a moving object has less control when in turn, note rollovers) in a very promt fashion. Horry clearly and intentionally leveled Nash. Whether it was meant to be that hard, I don't know, but you can't just so wrecklessly slam yourself into a player.

It was intentional, it was very hard, and it was unnecessary. Whether it was that hard, or surprising isn't any justification for his action.

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Like I said before, in my opinion, I don't see it as a flop on nash's part AND I don't see it as a HUGE hit on Horry's part (although unnecessary force and bad choice of the type of foul to use). Horry caught Nash in the most vulnerable part of his stride...it happens in tackle, flag, heck even touch football all the time...you could get pushed w/ a bit of force and if it catches you at the wrong point in your movement, it could send you flying.

Nash didn't flop, Horry didn't do a "body slam."

Oh, sorry, I forgot to add that it was a very dirty play on one of my favorite players (nash).

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Originally Posted by JMarkJohns

Great point. Sportsmanship. Geez... talk about the one thing lost in all this.

Remember Nash helping up Parker, then Parker giving his well-wishes to Nash when he couldn't get back in? Oh the games of yesterweek... :dramaquee

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You can thank that bitch Amare for ruining all that with all his whining to the media. He started all this bad mojo by calling out the whole Spurs team.

he shouldn't be suspended.