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I hate that rule.
its obvious he saw the stoppage of play and went to check himself in
:rolleyes
Bye, bye...
Still in the VICINITY of the bench.
that's a weird looking dude right behind ivaroni (sp?) on the right
You notice his head is turned toward the scorer table to check-in.Quote:
Originally Posted by Obstructed_View
I like it. It keeps brawls from occuring, and states the punishment if they do. If you make it arbitrary to situation and make the rule muddy, it makes it ineffective. Players know the rule, only the dumbest break it in the playoffs. If you're that dumb, you deserve to sit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Obstructed_View
smells like suspension
Hopefully there's a picture of Beno and Vaughn getting up and we can force pop to trim the rotations.
On the floor and you are GONE i keep saying this people need to start listening look at Knicks/Heat 97 Ewing and others barely on the court and they were gone.Quote:
Originally Posted by ploto
If Stoudemire got suspended for this, the league would ruin a brilliant series.
There should be no suspensions for either team over this. This is the fucking playoffs, exceptions to rules should be made in this scenario. Stoudemire didn't cause any problems, Diaw didn't cause any problems, Horry and Bell didn't really fight, they just got physical.
All players involved should be on the court in Game 5.
Depends how you define vicinity. He's on the court and he ventures away from being in front of the bench.Quote:
Originally Posted by ploto
Quote:
Originally Posted by UV Ray
Yeah cause he always has that what the fuck look when he checks himself in
You see that white line that was crossed? That's the coaches box - the limits of the vicinity of the bench. Besides, the NBA precedents have already made it where one step gets a suspension. Vicinity no longer matters since the precedent has been upheld several times in the past.Quote:
Originally Posted by ploto
Yeahk, him and 18,000 other people... :lolQuote:
Originally Posted by ploto
if he was on his way to check in then why are the suns coaching staff trying to restrain him hahahaha bunch of fuckin morons
Yeah, I know it's designed to stop fights, and I understand that it's a zero tolerance rule. I want him in the building.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Blackistone
And maybe Elson too. We don't need him at all with Diaw, Amare gone.Quote:
Originally Posted by sabar
I agree ; the Knicks-Heat series (1997) were ruined because of similar incidents (and same rules)Quote:
Originally Posted by Xylus
You are right. Once you get past that coaches' box line - that's usually what would be consider "not in the vicinity" any longer.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Blackistone
:lol :lol :lolQuote:
Originally Posted by sabar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Blackistone
booo, i had to pay $54 for the mayweather/de la hoya fight...this would've been free!....anyway, i wouldn't give up anything to not have that barkley/shaq throwdown or to laugh at jeff van gundy sweeping the floor with his suit during the heat/knicks brawl, those were funny as hell
Refs ruined this series already.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xylus
I could go for that, but it could set precedents that would make the league more violent. Fuck it, they're getting millions of dollarsQuote:
Originally Posted by Xylus
I would tend to agree with you, but if the NBA doesn't suspend them, future violators of that rule will be able to point to that as a way out of being punished. The rules are the rules. NO EXCEPTIONS.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xylus
definitely breaks the letter of the law there.
in the last pic, it almost looks like the assistant is trying to push Amare over by the scorer's table in order to say "see! we were just checking him in!"
Actually the rule has been amended from the Ewing suspension. There's wiggle room for the league. I say don't suspend anybody, even Horry, and let 'em play.
Hey, if we want to watch this like the WWE - I'm all for it. Let's turn this into a combo of boxing and Roman Gladiators - see who's really the toughest and the most skilled. :lolQuote:
Originally Posted by ponky
I'd definately say that once you're out of the coaches box it's really hard to argue you're still in the vicinity.
I hate to say this but...Amare should NOT get suspended. The Suns shouldn't suffer for Horry's stupidity.
I don't think Stoudemire's actions could be seen as potentially violent. It didn't look like Stoudemire intended to enter the fight. In one of those pictures, it looks like he realizes, "Oh shit, this is against the rules," steps off the court and heads back to the bench. He didn't have a level head because a brawl broke out on the court, and because he's not the smartest guy in the world, but he might have just wanted to separate the players involved.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Blackistone
:lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Blackistone
oh well, enough talk for me, we'll see how it all pans out, should be interesting
I agree. But it depends on how hard the league wants to be about this kind of thing. If they get suspended, I'm sure they'll look at tape of the Spurs bench to see if anyone came on the court too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spurs rock
Plus who steps onto the court to check in,
Just to play devil's advocate, every player in the NBA knows the rules. Amare's developed this persecution complex about how unfair he and his teammates have been treated. He made the decision to get up and go.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spurs rock
Blame Nash's flopping for these suspensions if they go down.
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Originally Posted by Xylus
If you watch it again, which its already on youtub, the assistant forces him to the sidelines.
Good because it has to be one of our dumbfucks. Elson fits that description and we don't need him against the pathetic Suns lineup for Game 5.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kori Ellis
To all those who think Amare is "dumb" he did a great job of selling his BS in the interview about why he left the bench. I mean it was obviously a lie but he held up well and sold it.
Unfortunately, peacemakers get suspended too. That's why they came up with the rule.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xylus
Stoudemire's actions aren't violent, but throwing out the rules and just saying "play on" in this case makes it very difficult for the league to justify a suspension or punishment if anyone else gets into the cheap shotting contests in the future.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xylus
Dude, you are such a weasel. Grow a spine. Your posts consistently take opposite positions. Your posts are a complete waste of time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Blackistone
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbyjoe
Yeah, cept nobody steps onto the court to check in, cause that tends to lead to technicals.
Yup, didn't Najera get suspended even though he was already on the court but was obviously trying to break up the fight?Quote:
Originally Posted by Obstructed_View
They won't suffer for Horry's stupidity, they'll suffer for Amare, Diaw, and Bell's stupidity. Nobody forced them into their actions, they did it to themselves.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spurs rock
It certainly isn't an automatic suspension. There is some gray area.
http://espn.go.com/nba/news/2002/1028/1452258.htmlQuote:
Originally Posted by stu jackson
That's part of it, but the officials have been letting minor contact go when teams are trying to intentionally foul. It sets the stage for exactly what we saw. Nash is in playoff mode and is reflexively going to sell the contact. If they'd just called Manu for the first one (I don't think he completely whiffed on him) the whole situation could have been prevented.Quote:
Originally Posted by Purple & Gold
I'm sure his coaches told him his story many times, reviewed it with flash cards, and made him copy his statements 100 times in a manilla notepad with a #2 pencil before releasing him to the media.Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbyjoe
Yes, but it was just a preseason gameQuote:
Originally Posted by kps0001
The 1997 Heat-Knicks series prove otherwise
it didn't occur in a tunnel or hallway, it was on the court. Which is where the wiggle room is gone.
Horry, at least, should get one game for his forearm to Bell's head.Quote:
Originally Posted by Obstructed_View
Still, I'll take no suspensions. It'll be the best business and basketball decision and no team would fault them for doing it.
This wasn't an unusual situation, it was a generic flagrant foul and everyone-goes-to-the-altercation.
obviously this was not in a hallway or tunnel but it was an unusual situation where the league will determine the appropriate solution.
I think Big Shot Rob is gone and Suns are at full strength.
What opposite positions? I've said that rules are rules, and you have to uphold them if you want any kind of order. Therefore, many suspensions are warranted because of NBA rules.Quote:
Originally Posted by UV Ray
Or, I said they could just let things go from now on and not suspend anyone. Not Horry, not Amare, and not the next person that checks someone into the table or elbows someone in the nose.
Learn to read ass. I've had one position the entire time.
oh, I forgot... go fuck yourself.
Excellent post. Thanks.Quote:
Originally Posted by kps0001
Oh yeah, I'm also getting sick of refs not calling obvious intentional fouls. The players in the playoffs have been going for small stuff like slaps and the refs don't call it, so they have to step up to holds and pushes to get them to whistle it.
Yeah, but they changed the rules to "bench area" after the Patrick Ewing suspension. There's an outside chance Amare walks on this. I'm sure the league was unhappy with Amare about the escalation of the tension in the series by his comments. We'll see if the league takes that into account. If the series is as violent and contentious as he claimed, one might think he'd be mindful of his reactions to situations.Quote:
Originally Posted by ponky
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Originally Posted by Trainwreck2100
Basically the rule isn't just black n white. The league will look at the entire situation. Nothing is gonna happen to Amare or Boris.
CBS Sportsline reports:
Game 5 is Wednesday night in Phoenix and it's possible there could be suspensions from the league for players leaving the bench after Horry fouled Nash.
I guess the point is rules and rules, but they are up to interpretation. The league will figure out two things 1) If they believe Amare was on his way to check-in 2) If they don't believe that, if they consider him "in the vicinity" of the bench.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Blackistone
It's not a hard fast automatic thing that he'll get suspended just because he stepped on the court.
lol thanks Captain Obvious.Quote:
Originally Posted by milkyway21
It certainly appears that if he was "checking in" his typical sideline path was taken up with coaches and other players. His only real course for such an act was on the court.Quote:
Originally Posted by Trainwreck2100
Again, I'm not buying the whole "checking in" alibi. I think it may have occured, but also think Amare may have used it as liberty to see what was what.
Thank you CBS :lol :lol :lolQuote:
Originally Posted by milkyway21
Quote:
Originally Posted by kps0001
Diaw's gone cause he wasnt checking in, who knows whether stern/jackson will buy the checking in argument, cause that was his only defense
Stern can always change the rules in the off-season - I'd say he starts right now...
(please....)
I agree that the closest thing to a slam dunk suspension in my opinion is the Horry contact with Bell, but since Bell was rushing at him, one could make a case that he was just defending himself. Horry is five inches or so taller than Bell and there were a lot of people's hands in there. I don't particularly give a shit if they suspend Horry, I just thought it might be cool if they just kind of gave everyone a do over so we could all enjoy the rest of the series.Quote:
Originally Posted by JMarkJohns
They all broke rules that warrant a one game suspension. Either suspend all of the violators or suspend no one. Anything else destroys all credibility and turns the NBA into a fixed league with an agenda against certain teams.Quote:
Originally Posted by JMarkJohns
If they choose to not suspend anyone, they better not start suspending people later who cheap shot opponents. If they do, it will take away all credibilty because it means they broke their own rules for this one instance, and this one instance alone.
why would he get suspended just because he stepped on the court? Isn't that rule intended for fights? If you step on the court during a fight. Was that a fight? Guys step on the court constantly during the game. All this speculating and we all know the rules are pretty much up to the interpretation of the league and the situation at hand.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kori Ellis
That's the problem. It's that selling a foul is now a reflex. If refs continue to buy it then players will continue to flop. It wasn't needed in this instance and will probably end up killing the Suns. If Nash would have took the foul without trying to sell it, they still would have won and all of this would have been avoided. He just chose a bad time to sell the flagrant.Quote:
Originally Posted by Obstructed_View
:sleepQuote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Blackistone
No doubt that Horry has to be gone... but for how long? Does he get the Raja clothesline 1-gamer? Despite what Blackistone says, I think we might see Bell's tech rescinded because Horry led with the elbow to the neck and Raja hadn't thrown anything yet.
The rule says during an "altercation" I believe.Quote:
Originally Posted by kps0001
And yes, this would be considered an altercation.
http://assets.espn.go.com/photo/2007...ffight_412.jpg
So it's just a matter of them interpreting "vicinity" in regards to Amare.
Amare got up, walked past the coaches box limit and onto the court, and attempted to get in the altercation. He was then held back by coaches. If that's not breaking the rule, then I don't know what is.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kori Ellis
I will say this - I already question the NBA's integrity, and if they break their own rules just for the Suns I will never watch another NBA game again. I cannot watch a sporting event that's supposed to be on a fair playing field being fixed by the league officials just because they feel like it.
Wow - you've become immune to flopping and must think it occurs on every play. I don't think Nash was "selling the flagrant." I've been hit by guys 6 inches and 80 pounds bigger than me and I didn't have to "sell anything" when I got lifted off my feet and slid 15 feet across the hardwood on a foul before.Quote:
Originally Posted by Purple & Gold
i think the only way the front office doesn't suspend him is if 1) they ignore the urgent manner in which amare was going to check in during a dead ball/free throw situation, and 2) they ignore the precedence they've already set for vicinity.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kori Ellis
it's possible they do it just for equity and fairness, but they'd still be cheating everybody and every team that had to suffer under the rule in the past.
I agree, but don't you think the League understands that and takes it into consideration.Quote:
Originally Posted by Purple & Gold
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kori Ellis
Gotcha. I didn't know the exact wording of the rules but I remember hearing 'altercation'. Thanks
A quick question here....Where are the pics of the Spurs bench?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kori Ellis
Looks to me like Nash is getting raped
Yeah it depends, but I just can't see them suspending anybody for coming on to the court for a big game. I think they'll just hand out fines. Horry is prolly gone for game 5 though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kori Ellis
I'm sure the league has them or will have them. There's cameras from most every angle.Quote:
Originally Posted by kps0001
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trainwreck2100
Its been a common theme throughout the series why would you expect something different now. :p:
I saw a few quick shots but that was it. It didn't look like anything happened over there but I am still curious as I am sure alot are.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kori Ellis
So the fact that it's a playoff game means that they should get special treatment where others before them were punished with suspensions for far less? Sure.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spurs rock
So for Amare, it's just going to come down to how they rule on "immediate vicinity".Quote:
c. During an altercation, all players not participating in the game must remain in the immediate vicinity of their bench. Violators will be suspended, without pay, for a minimum of one game and fined up to $50,000.
The suspensions will commence prior to the start of their next game.
Amare didn't help his case when he bold faced lied in the postgame interview. :lol He shouldn't have said he was already off the bench and trying to check in when it happened.
Actually, Nash was selling the flagrant. It looked like he had just been murdered. Horry, like you said, is already much bigger. You can't tell me Nash didn't know the contact was coming.Quote:
Originally Posted by RonMexico
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Originally Posted by kps0001
doesn't really matter, all our important players were on the floor.
Exactly. That's my whole point here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave McNulla
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Originally Posted by Kori Ellis
yeah, that was pretty bad
That's going to be a big consideration. As much as we, for selfish reasons, would love to see no suspensions, the league can't very well sell that to the rest of the league and retain credibility.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Blackistone
It also looks like Finley is trying to get a little Steve Javie action.Quote:
Originally Posted by Trainwreck2100
Yes, I really can't imagine the "just trying to check in" excuse will work--like Barkley said, it didn't work for him when he tried it. I would neither be surprised nor offended if the league didn't suspend either Stoudamire or Diaw, even though I think they weren't quite in the "immediate" vicinity of the bench. In general, I think the rule is fine, but the bottom line is I don't want the Spurs benefitting from the frustration caused by their own poor play (not that I can read Horry's mind). If Stoudamire and Diaw get away with a broken rule, I don't really care.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kori Ellis
Either way - I just watched the replay again - it was Finley, not Manu, who had the touch foul on Nash. Definitely could have been called, but maybe they thought the Spurs were going into "Rockets mode" for some reason and letting 10 seconds wind off the clock.Quote:
Originally Posted by Obstructed_View
That's been my whole point. I want to see a game six with all the stars as much as anyone, but not at the expense of upholding the rules of the game. Once the rules are deemed arbitrary and not everyone is subject to them the game is ruined.Quote:
Originally Posted by Obstructed_View
It's the fucking principle of the matter.
I have no idea why you say I've become immune to flopping and think it happens on every play. But I know that won't stop you from assuming it.Quote:
Originally Posted by RonMexico
Nash sold it. Of course I could be wrong because I'm not Steve Nash, but it sure did look like he was selling it. Horry dug the shoulder into him a little bit and Nash looked like he was in a pinball game.
And if you're flying 15 feet across the hardwood you might want to seriously think about taking some type of steroids. Or at least pick up a fucking weight from time to time.
If he sells the contact and his own teammates are enraged by that, they can't very well penalize the other team for that.Quote:
Originally Posted by UV Ray
I'm still not sure - the angle with which Nash got hit makes it hard to "sell the flagrant" in any specific way because he was already losing his footing. Perhaps he hoped to squeeze past Horry on the right? I'm not sure, but the only other way I could see his body go is if he turned as he was hit and kind of fell sideways toward the mid-court stripe. The leverage that Horry has on him is so immense with his size, height, and Nash's momentum.
:drunk So would you still feel that way if people came to your house, robbed you, then shot you but the court decides that they don't mind if the perpetrators get away with a broken rule?Quote:
Originally Posted by miss paxton
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Originally Posted by Kori Ellis
I agree. I do have to say though, even though biased. How can you honestly say that Amare wasn't told that on the next whistle get your ass up and in the game. He heard the whistle and got up to the scorers table unaware that an "altercation" would be taking place.
It all happened pretty quickly. We will just have to wait to see what the league comes down with but I wouldn't say it was an outright lie by Amare. We truly don't know.
and for those that think Nash did a great sell job...Did you hear how hard he hit the freakin scorers table? That was a fucking hip check by Horry that is used in the NHL. There was no selling of the play needed.