Ranting about the series, has Manu's luck running out?

I had a fear that Manu was due for a poor playoff performance, and so far he has certainly done horrible. Eventually it was time to regress to the mean after his ridiculously productive 2005 run. Actually he has done solid almost every single playoff statistically.

I am not sure he can reverse this debacle into a respectable playoffs. He would pretty much have to average 23ppg+ the rest of the way with good efficiency to even think about calling this a solid or respectable playoffs for him.

Now with Amare out, it pretty much puts a big stain on the Spurs should they survive this series. Surely Phoenix had momentum going into Game 5. Not that the Spurs didn't have a chance, but you have to give the Suns at least a slight edge in the best of three with two in Phoenix.

Unless the Spurs can blow the Suns out by 20+ is it possible to feel to respectable about winning this series? Even despite Amare being out, they can still beat the Spurs. Either way the Spurs don't look like champs coming out this series. Unless maybe it went to Game 7 and the Spurs won it.

This has become a nightmare in the sense that the Spurs won't look to impressive beating on an Amareless Sun team, and if they lose they would like really bad on top of it.

Is their really anything to take positively out of this series, unless somehow the Spurs either romp the Suns 2 games in a row, or find a way to win a potential Game 7 on the road? I am not sure this sits right with me. Manu playing crappy isn't too fun to see either, and given the Spurs might need a lucky break to win this series is disheartening.

Anyone else feel the same way?

I feel like this after every loss.

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Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

I feel like this after every loss.

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I usually feel bad. But with Amare being suspended, how else can the Spurs really look like a championship team unless they either blow the Suns out, or somehow end up in a Game 7 and come out victorious? Isn't it a damned if you do, damed if you don't kind of thing?

Gee maybe its because raja is locking manu down, ever think of that?

take a look at how manu does vs raja for the past few years... its a beautiful thing if youre a suns fan.

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Originally Posted by sunsbum

Gee maybe its because raja is locking manu down, ever think of that?

take a look at how manu does vs raja for the past few years... its a beautiful thing if youre a suns fan.

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Manu sucked versus the Nuggets.

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Originally Posted by sunsbum

Gee maybe its because raja is locking manu down, ever think of that?

take a look at how manu does vs raja for the past few years... its a beautiful thing if youre a suns fan.

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raja is playing good d, but manu is still missing a lot of wide open shots.

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Originally Posted by leemajors

raja is playing good d, but manu is still missing a lot of wide open shots.

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yea that last layup, i was suprised he missed that.

This is a great point.

And this is all the more reason for idiot Stern to change his beloved rules which are well intentioned but horribly legislated and worded.

I mean under his rules there is zero differentiation for your actions AFTER you leave the bench.

A guy who puts one foot onto the court and is trying to hold back his teammate is treated the same as someone who comes dashing onto the court and gets right into the middle of the mele.

Stern has made it so if the Spurs win all anyone will remember is that it was tainted, which isn't fair to either team really or any NBA fan who wants to watch quality basketball.

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Originally Posted by bobbyjoe

A guy who puts one foot onto the court and is trying to hold back his teammate is treated the same as someone who comes dashing onto the court and gets right into the middle of the mele.

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neither diaw or amare was trying to do that. every assistant on the benches knew what would happen to them and were trying to get them back as soon as possible. the blame lies nowhere but with those two players.

Manu is ruining us, almost ruined us against denver too.

Manu isn't a basketball player, he's a force of nature. The Spurs would be nowhere without him.

Manu cost us Game 7 against Dallas last year. He's ruining the series with the Suns as well. I say trade him while he still has some value.

Just wait until he hits a game winning 3pointer and he will be god again

If he does not play well the rest of this series win or lose it my opinion of him is tarnished, what he's doing is just not playing 'bad' but he's playing bad in almost every aspect possible..

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Originally Posted by SuperManu!!!

Just wait until he hits a game winning 3pointer and he will be god again

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When has he ever hit a game winner for the Spurs in the playoffs? He has made many clutch shots or plays, but nothing really resembling a game winner.

And it isn't even about that. The Spurs are playing an Amareless Suns team, even if Manu explodes, it will be against a disadvantage Suns team. And even one great game won't make this playoffs a good one for Manu. Unless Manu averages 35ppg in the next two or three games, I don't see how anyone can say he had an even mediocre playoffs by his standards. In fact he has had a shitty playoffs compared to his regular season play, and that just sucks.

manu does not have any playoff confidence
after that stupid foul AGAINST MAVS

Manu is done. Like they say in France, si vous laissez tomber la pomme de terre sur le chateau de sable, le gros chien vous mangera, or something like that.

To be honest, they don't say that shit, but it's believable right?

Spurs Should Have Traded Him Last Offseason
It Looks Like :( :( :( :( :depressed

I was shocked Manu came up so empty in game 4 after he played so well in game 3. That was the difference, Tim even in foul trouble played well as did Tony it was Manu that cost the Spurs the game. If he just had a good night they win that game. Bell has played him well but he has not been agressive enough settling for too many jumpshots and i can't figure out why?

Manu is in a horrible slump. Poopavitch better pull his head out of his ass and start giving Manu's minutes to Barry.

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Originally Posted by peskypesky

Manu is in a horrible slump. Poopavitch better pull his head out of his ass and start giving Manu's minutes to Barry.

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All he has to do when he is out there is committ himself to going to he hoop period. If he does that he puts great pressure on the Suns and will be effective. Manu got too 3pt happy this year and is not going to the hoop in the playoffs and it is killing his game.

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Originally Posted by dbreiden83080

All he has to do when he is out there is committ himself to going to he hoop period. If he does that he puts great pressure on the Suns and will be effective. Manu got too 3pt happy this year and is not going to the hoop in the playoffs and it is killing his game.

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He CAN'T GET TO the hoop. He's lost the first step, and he can't jump. He can't slash through defenses like he used to. And when he flails into the paint, he throws the ball up in the air and hopes the refs will call a foul.

And he seems unable or unwilling to pass the ball when his drive gets cut off.

He's bringing nothing to the game and he should ride the pine.

People called me crazy when I said at the start of the season that this might be Manu's last season as a Spur.

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Originally Posted by peskypesky

He CAN'T GET TO the hoop. He's lost the first step, and he can't jump. He can't slash through defenses like he used to. And when he flails into the paint, he throws the ball up in the air and hopes the refs will call a foul.

And he seems unable or unwilling to pass the ball when his drive gets cut off.

He's bringing nothing to the game and he should ride the pine.

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Yeah, I've noticed that too. He seems physically drained and banged up after driving to the hoop the past couple years. All he does is take jumpers and it's pissing me off. At least Finley hits his damn 3s. 12.8 PPG on 33% shooting(26% from beyond the arc) is not going to cut it. Manu's finished.

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Originally Posted by Nikos

I had a fear that Manu was due for a poor playoff performance, and so far he has certainly done horrible. Eventually it was time to regress to the mean after his ridiculously productive 2005 run. Actually he has done solid almost every single playoff statistically.

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Manu has had a poor playoffs so far, I don't think anyone can argue that. However, I don't think it's as historically bad as you are making it out to be. If you compare his numbers from the 2003 championship run, the numbers for this year's playoffs make him look like Michael Jordan. Especially if you take out the stats from the Lakers series.

2003
29 Minutes
8.6 Points
4.0 Rebounds
3.0 Assists
.349 FG%
.333 3P%
1.09 Points Per Shot

2007
29 Minutes
12.8 Points
5.0 Rebounds
4.0 Assists
.327 FG%
.263 3P%
1.05 Points Per Shot

Basically, in exactly the same amount of minutes, Ginobili's numbers were much worse in 2003.

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Originally Posted by Nikos

Is their really anything to take positively out of this series, unless somehow the Spurs either romp the Suns 2 games in a row, or find a way to win a potential Game 7 on the road?

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Just win the series. When it's all said and done, nobody remembers specifics. All that is remembered are the wins and losses.

We need Manu to bounce back and find his game and shot the way Kirilenko bounced back from the Rockets series to play very well vs Warriors.

We need Manu to play a lot better. A LOT better. No question. But I don't understand why he's the one getting dumped on and Tim and Tony are getting a free pass.

Think about it, on offense you can do two things wrong. You can either miss a shot or you can commit a turnover. Both of these are bad, and if anything turnovers are worse than missed shots because A) they cannot be offensively rebounded and B) they often lead to fast breaks the other way.

When you add up the missed shots + turnovers, Manu had 11, Tim had 11, Tony had 15. So explain to me why Manu is the one getting shat on.

GiG got it right . Manu played ok in game 4, doing all the other things on the court like he usually does. I thought he played a great first half but in the second half went cold with his shooting. I mean that last miss of his just said it all.

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Is their really anything to take positively out of this series, unless somehow the Spurs either romp the Suns 2 games in a row, or find a way to win a potential Game 7 on the road? I am not sure this sits right with me. Manu playing crappy isn't too fun to see either, and given the Spurs might need a lucky break to win this series is disheartening.

Anyone else feel the same way?

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I wont feel bad at all if the Spurs win this series and win it all. Basketball is a team game and we play the best of seven series for a reason. The Spurs had already taken 2 games with their full side and If they closed out better would of won game 4. If the Suns are the better team they will come back stronger in game 6 and take the series. When it's all said and done, who comes out on top will be the story-line.. while a few will remember the "what ifs."

The problem is you think Manu is an all star level player. He is not. he got a gift all star appearance two years ago and had a good 2005 playoff run but he has always been inconsistent and not at the level of the true all stars.

And yes the spurs should have traded him last year.

Something tells me we'll see a bit of him tonight. Just a hunch...

Manu has been less agressive. He's too in love with his 3 point shot. Good things happen when he attacks the basket, but he's stopped doing that, for whatever reason. No one is biting on that fake penetration move he does at the top of the key.

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Originally Posted by rascal

The problem is you think Manu is an all star level player. He is not. he got a gift all star appearance two years ago and had a good 2005 playoff run but he has always been inconsistent and not at the level of the true all stars.

And yes the spurs should have traded him last year.

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This is not the issue. Parker hasn't even had one excellent playoff run and you think he is an all-star. Actually Manu's 2005 run was clearly better than even Parker's two best all-star regular seasons.

The point is most players don't do well in the playoffs. Even guys who you might assume are legit all stars, whatever that means. Manu got lucky to have done so well in 2005, but he was one of the biggest reasons they won the title in 2005 after Tim. You could argue he was the playoff offensive MVP even that year. That doesn't sound like a 'gift' to me, when he was actually more productive statistically on offense then Tim Duncan. That sounds like a true playoff all star in that year. You could argue it was luck or whatever, but I could also say this years playoffs he is just unlucky.

Manu's regular season was very good this year, why did the Spurs need to trade him. His value isn't even high enough to other teams to trade a young all star calibur player. Manu is too old to get equal or superior value anyways via trade.

BTW timvp comparing 03 with 07 is a poor example because Manu's 2007 regular season was miles better than his 2003 regular season. I tend to judge players playoff statistical performances in relationship to their corresponding regular seasons and expectations -- not just being purely comparing statistics.

Manu was actually superior in the 2003 playoffs to his 2003 regular season. Right now he is WAY below his 2007 regular season. And that is the issue.

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Originally Posted by aaronstampler

So explain to me why Manu is the one getting shat on.

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ginobili set the playoff bar high.

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Stern has made it so if the Spurs win all anyone will remember is that it was tainted

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Well, for a week or so maybe. Unless of course Phil Jackson reminds everyone on a bi weekly basis. Otherwise it will pretty much be forgotten by the time the next series is well underway.

Does anyone remember that Frenchman (I think he was French) that blew the British Open a few years back because he took like a 12 on the final hole, and lost by 1 or 2 strokes? Of course not.......They only remember winners. In a few days if the Spurs win this, all that will be remembered is that Phoenix lost. Like they say in golf, "they don't ask how, they only ask how many".

:ihit :madrun :flag: I have a feeling that manu will have a good game tonight and prove all of you wrong!!!

I dont think we should blame Manu. Right now he is physically banged up. He has lost his first step and cannot split between the double teams like he used to do. I remembered that during one stretch in the regular season Manu played superb basketball. Now I think Manu just does not have it in his tank.
I blame the Spurs management for not bringing more young legs. The players they brought last offseason have been a waste so far. Elson, etc

Which amazes me is that considering Pop is such a control freak, everybody asumes that Manu's game has nothing to do w/gameplan.
Let's talk about Manu's best game in this series. Manu had 7 shot attempts by the middle of the 2nd half. 7. I don't think that's Manu's decision.
Of course if Manu fails to knock his shots down (as it happend in that game during that stretch) it's not coach's decision.

While I agree Manu is sucking, he does not need to make 35+ points a game to redeem himself!

Hell, all he really has to do is just win one series for us, just one, and all will be forgiven.