Sarver "The team that plays dirty should not be rewarded"

Sarver "The team that plays dirty should not be rewarded"


Speaking specifically about the Horry-Nash incident, Suns owner Robert Sarver told reporters in Phoenix on Tuesday night: "The way this worked out for us, it was, I believe, extremely unfair. . . . The team that plays dirty should not be rewarded and the team that plays fair should not be penalized."

Sarver added that the "first thing on my agenda" for next season will be making a push at ownership level to have the leave-the-bench rule re-examined. Sarver also said that NBA commissioner David Stern has canceled a schedule appearance in Phoenix for Wednesday night's Game 5.

Jackson said the league would consider re-evaluating the policy for next season "if a change is warranted" but insisted that "right now that line is very clear."

"The rule is the rule," Jackson said.

"It's not a matter of fairness. It's a matter of correctness."

Jackson added: "The purpose of the rule is to prevent the escalation of these types of incidents and in turn protect the health and safety of our players and diminish the chance of serious injury [for] our players."

All three of the suspended players, according to Jackson, have the right to appeal their suspensions at the end of the season to perhaps retrieve lost salary, but there is no appeal process that could restore eligibility in time for Wednesday's tipoff.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playof...ory?id=2871615

maybe he needs to scan the team payroll and realize that raja bell is on his team.

Sarver also said that NBA commissioner David Stern has canceled a schedule appearance in Phoenix for Wednesday night's Game 5.

sun fans would kill him

sun fan seems to possess a weird sense of entitlement and angst. maybe it starts from the top down.

Spurs are not being rewarded. The Suns are being punished for breaking the rules. . Too bad for you, Sarver, that it wasn't two scrubs that jumped up like thugs wanting to get into a brawl.

Quit the crying already.

LMAO. Stern cancelled? Now THAT's funny!

No wonder the organization is nothing but a bunch of bitches and whiners.


Sarver - instead of blaming the league and the rule, blame the fucking idiots on your team who broke the rule. I bet this guy would blame a rape victim for getting raped because she was wearing a short skirt and obviously deserved to be raped. He should be strung up and beaten San Antonio Pinata style.

Maybe Stern will let them play if you chicken-dance for him. Bitch.

I am done with this issue. I said my piece and over my frustration with the ruling. Hopefully the Suns win if not Amare will be back in Game 6.

Is going to walk into the league office doing his chicken routine?

I wonder if Sarver will donate the same amount as his fine to a charity like Cuban does.

Stern doesn't like it when owners go public with criticism of the league.

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Originally Posted by Kevin Blackistone

No wonder the organization is nothing but a bunch of bitches and whiners.


Sarver - instead of blaming the league and the rule, blame the fucking idiots on your team who broke the rule. I bet this guy would blame a rape victim for getting raped because she was wearing a short skirt and obviously deserved to be raped. He should be strung up and beaten San Antonio Pinata style.

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:clap

Having seen the replay again this morning, I don't really see how the Suns can argue that Stoudemire was doing anything other than trying to get involved in the altercation. He might have been running to check on Nash, but he clearly makes a move towards Horry, but gets restrained.

Stu Jackson, on Mike and Mike this morning, said that the suspensions struck him as a no-brainer when he initially saw the play. His point was that Stoudemire and Diaw strayed more than 20-25 feet from the bench. He also argued that had the incident occurred across the floor, Stoudemire and Diaw's movement would have put them well onto the floor and there would have been no question about whether they should be suspended. I don't necessarily buy the extension argument he made, but I can see his point that 20-25 feet from the bench is easily beyond the immediate vicinity of the bench, and that the league really had no wiggle room to do anything with Stoudemire and Diaw but suspend them.

I guess the point is that the Suns have only themselves to blame for losing their poise, even if the Spurs played dirty. Had Stoudemire and Diaw not responded -- had they just maintained their poise as the rule requires -- the punishments would have gone entirely against the Spurs.

Jackson also said that the dispositive factor with regard to the Duncan part of the equation (on Elson's dunk) was that there was no altercation.

Why not just roll the suspensions over to the next regular season? Punish guys for breaking rules, fine, or suspend them immediately for landing punches, but why should this affect the potential outcome of a playoff series?

If you truly care about your product, why wreck a great series because Amare and Diaw wandered 20 feet away from their bench?

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Originally Posted by Findog

Why not just roll the suspensions over to the next regular season? Punish guys for breaking rules, fine, or suspend them immediately for landing punches, but why should this affect the potential outcome of a playoff series?

If you truly care about your product, why wreck a great series because Amare and Diaw wandered 20 feet away from their bench?

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Then guys could do as they wish in the playoffs, knowing that their suspensions won't take place until the start of the season in much less-meaningful games.

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Originally Posted by Findog

Why not just roll the suspensions over to the next regular season? Punish guys for breaking rules, fine, or suspend them immediately for landing punches, but why should this affect the potential outcome of a playoff series?

If you truly care about your product, why wreck a great series because Amare and Diaw wandered 20 feet away from their bench?

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yes the series is wrecked. But Amare and Diaw's dumbasses wrecked it.

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Originally Posted by Mr. Peabody

Then guys could do as they wish in the playoffs, knowing that their suspensions won't take place until the start of the season in much less-meaningful games.

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Do as they wish? A good rule of thumb would be to suspend guys immediately if they land punches, but in the case of Amare and Diaw, no harm, no foul. They can still be punished next November.

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Originally Posted by Findog

Why not just roll the suspensions over to the next regular season? Punish guys for breaking rules, fine, or suspend them immediately for landing punches, but why should this affect the potential outcome of a playoff series?

If you truly care about your product, why wreck a great series because Amare and Diaw wandered 20 feet away from their bench?

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that's the stupidest thing I've read in the last 20 minutes, and that's saying a lot. You just shamed yourself, go to your room and say 10 hail mary's and make sure to pray for Dirk's mental recovery.

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Originally Posted by cheguevara

yes the series is wrecked. But Amare and Diaw's dumbasses wrecked it.

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And Horry as well for carrying out the Code Red.

fuck bending the rules to accomodate stars who can't follow them. that goes on enough in pro sports and to a more general extent, in our society. you don't want players coming off the bench when there is a fight so that such a situation can be contained and controlled. especially in the playoffs when emotions are raised.

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Originally Posted by Kevin Blackistone

that's the stupidest thing I've read in the last 20 minutes, and that's saying a lot. You just shamed yourself, go to your room and say 10 hail mary's and make sure to pray for Dirk's mental recovery.

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No response to a well-reasoned argument, other than to acknowledge you're out of ammo by saying "That's stupid." Look in the mirror, please.

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Originally Posted by FromWayDowntown

Having seen the replay again this morning, I don't really see how the Suns can argue that Stoudemire was doing anything other than trying to get involved in the altercation. He might have been running to check on Nash, but he clearly makes a move towards Horry, but gets restrained.

Stu Jackson, on Mike and Mike this morning, said that the suspensions struck him as a no-brainer when he initially saw the play. His point was that Stoudemire and Diaw strayed more than 20-25 feet from the bench. He also argued that had the incident occurred across the floor, Stoudemire and Diaw's movement would have put them well onto the floor and there would have been no question about whether they should be suspended. I don't necessarily buy the extension argument he made, but I can see his point that 20-25 feet from the bench is easily beyond the immediate vicinity of the bench, and that the league really had no wiggle room to do anything with Stoudemire and Diaw but suspend them.

I guess the point is that the Suns have only themselves to blame for losing their poise, even if the Spurs played dirty. Had Stoudemire and Diaw not responded -- had they just maintained their poise as the rule requires -- the punishments would have gone entirely against the Spurs.

Jackson also said that the dispositive factor with regard to the Duncan part of the equation (on Elson's dunk) was that there was no altercation.

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I've said it before, and I'll say it again, if they hadn't stepped past the coaches box they'd still be playing. Since they broke that seal, the NBA had no choice.

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Originally Posted by Findog

Why not just roll the suspensions over to the next regular season? Punish guys for breaking rules, fine, or suspend them immediately for landing punches, but why should this affect the potential outcome of a playoff series?

If you truly care about your product, why wreck a great series because Amare and Diaw wandered 20 feet away from their bench?

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Punishment is supposed to be a deterrent. Allowing the suspensions to be rolled over to a meaningless season opener game would negate the fact that the league is extremely image conscious and does not tolerate fighting and on court post play altercations...Especially on national TV...

Stern has always been an egotistical dickless fuck.

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Originally Posted by Findog

Do as they wish? A good rule of thumb would be to suspend guys immediately if they land punches, but in the case of Amare and Diaw, no harm, no foul. They can still be punished next November.

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Seriously, the rule is in place to keep combatants on the bench from charging the court as well as keep peace keepers on the bench from being mistaken as combatants and retaliated against. If you lessen the punishment, people won't take it seriously. The rule is fine as is, and 99.9% of the NBA has no problem following it. When was the last time this was an issue in a playoff game? Stoudemire and Diaw are just that stupid.

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Originally Posted by cheguevara

yes the series is wrecked. But Amare and Diaw's dumbasses wrecked it.

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The series is not wrecked. At most, one game is wrecked.

Suns still can win game 6 and 7...


shit, Suns can win tonight! Nash will be playing like a maniac, and the PHX crowd will be ready to rumble.

I was talking to my friend last night about this whole thing and I was like, nobody has a problem with rules until they get caught breaking them. That goes for everything in life. Nobody really complained about this rule when 12th men and bench warmers were losing one game salaries because of it, but now that two key players of a contender get 1 gamers for it its all of a sudden the worst rule in the league.

Everybody knew about this rule and it was no big secret. I can recall numerous times in games when commentators (including Kerr) would talk about how this rule has helped to keep fights down in the NBA and made it a lot better for the safety of the players. So I don't feel sorry for people when they bitch and moan about it now. For the record I like the rule but think it needs a little more room for interpretation and not be so iron-clad. But I don't agree with all the complaining now when you probably wouldn't have complained about it if it was Burke and Piatkowski running on the court and nobody would have asked that the rule be changed. Everybody would have went about their business calling the Spurs dirty and loving their life.

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Originally Posted by Findog

No response to a well-reasoned argument, other than to acknowledge you're out of ammo by saying "That's stupid." Look in the mirror, please.

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I'm sure you've ready my last post by now and are rescinding this one as we speak...

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Originally Posted by Findog

Why not just roll the suspensions over to the next regular season? Punish guys for breaking rules, fine, or suspend them immediately for landing punches, but why should this affect the potential outcome of a playoff series?

If you truly care about your product, why wreck a great series because Amare and Diaw wandered 20 feet away from their bench?

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Because the infraction was committed in the playoffs, the penalty must be in the playoffs. Otherwise you get things like players taking out other players b/c they know they don't get penalized until the regular season when WGAF.

(that said I don't agree with ANY of the suspensions)

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Originally Posted by violentkitten

fuck bending the rules to accomodate stars who can't follow them. that goes on enough in pro sports and to a more general extent, in our society. you don't want players coming off the bench when there is a fight so that such a situation can be contained and controlled. especially in the playoffs when emotions are raised.

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No harm, no foul. Better to punish acts of violence after the fact that permanently alter the complexion of a series.

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Originally Posted by Findog

Why not just roll the suspensions over to the next regular season? Punish guys for breaking rules, fine, or suspend them immediately for landing punches, but why should this affect the potential outcome of a playoff series?

If you truly care about your product, why wreck a great series because Amare and Diaw wandered 20 feet away from their bench?

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I'd take part of this ruling to be the league's unwillingness to cave into the notion of ignoring its own rules for purposes of putting on a better show.

It would have been very easy for the league to say that Stoudemire and Diaw are too important to the Suns and that it would affect the overall quality of the NBA product if each was suspended. Of course, a counterpoint to such an argument is the argument that the quality of the NBA product is compromised when the league makes exceptions for star players because they're star players (see, e.g, complaining about D. Wade, 2006 NBA Finals).

This is a rule that has always been enforced in this manner. Had the league done anything differently here, there would have been all sorts of reasonable cries from some corners that the league was playing favorites and making the very sorts of exceptions that lead to concerns about conspiracies.

Even as a Spurs fan, I wish that there had been some basis to diminish the punishment for Stoudemire and Diaw. But, the exception that would have been created would have been untenable on a going-forward basis because, really, the question about whether these guys left the bench area wasn't a very difficult one.

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Originally Posted by Findog

And Horry as well for carrying out the Code Red.

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now that was the stupidest thing I've read in the last 20 minutes. You're somehow finding a way to top yourself, keep it up.

starver did not have a problem with it last year
when aj's wife and sun fan went at it and dallas's 12 man went up to her rescue and got kicked out

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Originally Posted by CosmicCowboy

Punishment is supposed to be a deterrent. Allowing the suspensions to be rolled over to a meaningless season opener game would negate the fact that the league is extremely image conscious and does not tolerate fighting and on court post play altercations...Especially on national TV...

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If the League is extremely image conscious then they wouldn't decide a playoff series in the commisioner's office. They wouldn't institute a felony punishment for a misdemeanor offense. Amare and Diaw broke a rule, fine. Let them sit out their season opener for 07-08. But don't tell me that Stern and Jackson had this scenario in mind when they crafted it as a response to Pacers-Pistons. The correct thing to do would've been to say "Wow! We never anticipated a situation like this when we instituted this rule, and to be fair, it's helped the referees keep order. But we can't in good conscience continue to enforce it in such an ironclad manner."

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Originally Posted by FromWayDowntown

I'd take part of this ruling to be the league's unwillingness to cave into the notion of ignoring its own rules for purposes of putting on a better show.

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That is the best way to put it IMO, and I wish I had said it that way. I'm glad the NBA at least took one stance towards the integrity of the game and not just towards "sports entertainment".

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Originally Posted by Findog

No harm, no foul. Better to punish acts of violence after the fact that permanently alter the complexion of a series.

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So wait until there's an injury, rather than taking affirmative steps to prevent that possibility?

I'll steal this from another source I read this morning, but with the rules as they are, it's relatively easy to avoid larger fights. The three officials can usually take care of the 2 combatants and, at the very least, there are only 8 other players to be concerned with. There are no extra guys flying in from out of the play with the opportunity to Rudy T someone who wasn't accounting for him. It makes sense that the league wants to keep fighting to a minimum and it makes sense that one way to do that is to limit the number of potential combatants.

With that said, the league will undoubtedly change the rule this summer and the rule change will, almost undoubtedly, incorporate some determination of intent to become involved in the altercation. But, still, that allows for some proactive effort to avoid 24-player fights and to punish those who intend to become involved in the fight. It's better to prevent than to simply punish, I think.

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Originally Posted by Kevin Blackistone

now that was the stupidest thing I've read in the last 20 minutes. You're somehow finding a way to top yourself, keep it up.

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"I can't make an argument, so I'll just resort to ad hominem attacks."

You keep that up, and from this point forward, I'll just ignore you, since you have nothing to add to the conversation. HAND.

again then players would break the rule all the time in the playoffs
knowing they would get punished in game one of 82

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Originally Posted by Findog

If the League is extremely image conscious then they wouldn't decide a playoff series in the commisioner's office. They wouldn't institute a felony punishment for a misdemeanor offense. Amare and Diaw broke a rule, fine. Let them sit out their season opener for 07-08. But don't tell me that Stern and Jackson had this scenario in mind when they crafted it as a response to Pacers-Pistons. The correct thing to do would've been to say "Wow! We never anticipated a situation like this when we instituted this rule, and to be fair, it's helped the referees keep order. But we can't in good conscience continue to enforce it in such an ironclad manner."

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So what happens when the next time Stoudemire runs out on the court to actually see if Nash is OK and get's leveled by TD who thinks Stoudemire is running up on him and he therefore acts in self defense? You think the league wants to deal with that shit? That's why the punishment is strict, because the possible outcomes of letting people rush the court are really bad.

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Originally Posted by Findog

"I can't make an argument, so I'll just resort to ad hominem attacks."

You keep that up, and from this point forward, I'll just ignore you, since you have nothing to add to the conversation. HAND.

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Are you reading my posts? I am adding to the conversation, I'm just taking the time to fuck with you as well.

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Originally Posted by Kevin Blackistone

Seriously, the rule is in place to keep combatants on the bench from charging the court as well as keep peace keepers on the bench from being mistaken as combatants and retaliated against. If you lessen the punishment, people won't take it seriously. The rule is fine as is, and 99.9% of the NBA has no problem following it. When was the last time this was an issue in a playoff game? Stoudemire and Diaw are just that stupid.

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Fine, if an infraction occurs during the playoffs, roll it over to the next regular season, where it's a 10 game suspension without salary, as opposed to one game and $35K.

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Originally Posted by Findog

No harm, no foul. Better to punish acts of violence after the fact that permanently alter the complexion of a series.

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better to allow a situation to escalate so that the probability of a significant player injury is increased? um, no.

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Originally Posted by Findog

Fine, if an infraction occurs during the playoffs, roll it over to the next regular season, where it's a 10 game suspension without salary, as opposed to one game and $35K.

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But then you're punishing the same conduct very differently just because of when it occurs.

It's funny to me that after years of hearing fans scream for consistency from the league, those same fans are now upset because the league is actually being consistent in its application of a rule that has always been enforced in this manner.

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Originally Posted by FromWayDowntown

But then you're punishing the same conduct very differently just because of when it occurs.

It's funny to me that after years of hearing fans scream for consistency from the league, those same fans are now upset because the league is actually being consistent in its application of a rule that has always been enforced in this manner.

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yeah no shit. i guess a +15 FT disparity or whatever it was in game 4 gives one a sense of entitlement.

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So what happens when the next time Stoudemire runs out on the court to actually see if Nash is OK and get's leveled by TD who thinks Stoudemire is running up on him and he therefore acts in self defense?

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I have no problem with fining and suspending guys for leaving the bench, but if it occurs during a playoff series, roll it over to the regular season and give it some teeth with regard to more games to sit out and more money to fork over. The rule has been beneficial in helping the refs keep order, but Stern and Jackson couldn't have anticipated a situation such as this when they implemented it. They need to give themselves a certain degree of flexibility in meting out punishments, because by following precedent, they have swung the series to the Spurs over a sequence that was initiated by an Horry cheapshot.

If I care about my product, I'm not going to diminish it.

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Originally Posted by Findog

Fine, if an infraction occurs during the playoffs, roll it over to the next regular season, where it's a 10 game suspension without salary, as opposed to one game and $35K.

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That takes away all of the consistency in how the rule is enforced because you're making allowances for when the violation occurs.


Make it a 50 game suspension and all lost salary is directly deposited into my bank account and you have a deal.

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But then you're punishing the same conduct very differently just because of when it occurs.

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There are no good alternatives here: Enforce the rule here with consistency and you've degraded your oncourt product. Or acknowledge this is a fucked up situation and from here on out, grant yourself a degree of flexibility in meting out punishment. I'd say the latter is preferable.

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Originally Posted by Findog

I have no problem with fining and suspending guys for leaving the bench, but if it occurs during a playoff series, roll it over to the regular season and give it some teeth with regard to more games to sit out and more money to fork over. The rule has been beneficial in helping the refs keep order, but Stern and Jackson couldn't have anticipated a situation such as this when they implemented it. They need to give themselves a certain degree of flexibility in meting out punishments, because by following precedent, they have swung the series to the Spurs over a sequence that was initiated by an Horry cheapshot.

If I care about my product, I'm not going to diminish it.

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That's actually a good argument, but I still think you have to punish the player when the violation occurs. In your argument, what happens to Horry in the event he retires after this season? There would be no next year to give him a 10 gamer.

It's a zero tolerance rule. For better or worse, Stern was brought in to clean up the NBA and create a product that appeals to wealthy conservative middle age guys because thats where the money is. There was a time that most of you don't even remember when the NBA's image was that the players were coke snorting thugs and ratings and TV money were going down the tubes. "Middle class" viewers were deserting the NBA in droves. They spend years and millions on creating a squeaky clean image for their players and their "work in the community" and they don't want the public to see their "good citizens" slugging away at each other at center court on national TV.

Get over it.

Findog:

Are you suggesting changes to rule for the future, or changing the rule now?

Because the NBA can't change the punishment now. But your ideas are interesting, if they want to make the rule more complex.

I think Stern likes the simplicity of it, so there's no room to argue: You leave the bench, you're out. No IFs, ANDs, or BUTs.

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Originally Posted by Kevin Blackistone

That's actually a good argument, but I still think you have to punish the player when the violation occurs. In your argument, what happens to Horry in the event he retires after this season? There would be no next year to give him a 10 gamer.

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Dock the funds from his retirement pension.

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Originally Posted by ducks

Sarver added that the "first thing on my agenda" for next season will be making a push at ownership level to have the leave-the-bench rule re-examined.

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Re-examine the rules because they did not benefit the Suns? Go ahead and bend the rules. All the NBA need is another bench clearing all-out brawl.

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Originally Posted by Kevin Blackistone

Seriously, the rule is in place to keep combatants on the bench from charging the court as well as keep peace keepers on the bench from being mistaken as combatants and retaliated against. If you lessen the punishment, people won't take it seriously. The rule is fine as is, and 99.9% of the NBA has no problem following it. When was the last time this was an issue in a playoff game? Stoudemire and Diaw are just that stupid.

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And you are just that much of a douchebag! You have shown it over and over with all your comments. Spurs fans should be ashamed that you are ACTING like a fellow fan right now and trying to be on their side.

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Originally Posted by Findog

Dock the funds from his retirement pension.

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That doesn't do anything to compensate for the time lost, just the money.

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Originally Posted by Spider TX

And you are just that much of a douchebag! You have shown it over and over with all your comments. Spurs fans should be ashamed that you are ACTING like a fellow fan right now and trying to be on their side.

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Actually, Suns fans should be ashamed of blaming the Spurs for the stupidity of Amare and Diaw....

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Originally Posted by Kevin Blackistone

Are you reading my posts? I am adding to the conversation, I'm just taking the time to fuck with you as well.

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You have yet to add anything constructive to any conversation in the last 3 days. You are worthless, but it's all in keeping with your name, because he is extremely worthless as a reporter/analyst as well.

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Originally Posted by Spider TX

You have yet to add anything constructive to any conversation in the last 3 days. You are worthless, but it's all in keeping with your name, because he is extremely worthless as a reporter/analyst as well.

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Kettle, meet Pot.

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/sear...earchid=340809

All you do is slam other posters. Give it a rest.

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Originally Posted by MadDog73

Actually, Suns fans should be ashamed of blaming the Spurs for the stupidity of Amare and Diaw....

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You act like that was a stupid move when they were going to check on the REAL MVP of the league. Yeah is wasn't thought out when they got up, but take out the small guy who is the best player on any team, and I GUARANTEE players get up and do the same thing every time. If you don't think so, you are an idiot as well.

I blame the childish Robert Horry for all of this. If he wasn't throwing this little fit about his team falling apart at the end, he doesn't lay that cheap shot out on Nash, but instead, he still has never grown up as a man and does it anyway, because he can't handle when is team choked.

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Findog:

Are you suggesting changes to rule for the future, or changing the rule now?

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I'm saying change it now. Why not? You think the player's union is gonna get upset over a unilateral move that benefits the players? The rule was put in with the best of intentions and it's largely worked, but this is a situation where the rule isn't doing anybody any good except the Spurs -- the Suns are punished more for a sequence they didn't start, the fans suffer for it, and the inflexibility of the punishment means you can't take into account the context -- Nash has that spinal condition and was hipchecked into the scorer's table right in front of the Phoenix bench. I think it's a perfectly natural reaction for Diaw and Amare to hop up and check on their floor leader. It's the playoffs, it's heightened intensity and emotion, you have to make allowances for that and take that into account. Neither of those guys did anything to escalate the situation. By keeping the rule intact but granting themselves flexibility in when and where to mete out the punishment, you can have the best of both worlds. For instance, when a violation of the bench rule occurs, the team can have a choice: Serve a 1 game suspension and get docked $35K right now, or roll it over to the next regular season, sit out 10 games and lose the salary for those games. If it had been Pat Burke, the Suns would no doubt elect to serve the suspension immediately. For Amare and Diaw, they would wait.

I have only slammed him, and maybe one others, but that's just because they are more clueless and idiotic than most others.

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Originally Posted by Spider TX

You have yet to add anything constructive to any conversation in the last 3 days. You are worthless, but it's all in keeping with your name, because he is extremely worthless as a reporter/analyst as well.

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:lol I've added a level of intelligence to the board that has just been degraded by your presence. Just because your team didn't get let completely off the hook for breaking the rules doesn't mean I'm not stating the truth.



$1000 says this idiots IP is from Arizona.

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Originally Posted by Spider TX

You act like that was a stupid move when they were going to check on the REAL MVP of the league. Yeah is wasn't thought out when they got up, but take out the small guy who is the best player on any team, and I GUARANTEE players get up and do the same thing every time. If you don't think so, you are an idiot as well.

I blame the childish Robert Horry for all of this. If he wasn't throwing this little fit about his team falling apart at the end, he doesn't lay that cheap shot out on Nash, but instead, he still has never grown up as a man and does it anyway, because he can't handle when is team choked.

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You blame Horry for your young stupid players running on to the court? Had they stayed Horry would have been done for 2 games.. Can't handle his team choking? And this coming from a franchise that has accomplished ZERO? :lol

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Originally Posted by Findog

If the League is extremely image conscious then they wouldn't decide a playoff series in the commisioner's office. They wouldn't institute a felony punishment for a misdemeanor offense. Amare and Diaw broke a rule, fine. Let them sit out their season opener for 07-08. But don't tell me that Stern and Jackson had this scenario in mind when they crafted it as a response to Pacers-Pistons. The correct thing to do would've been to say "Wow! We never anticipated a situation like this when we instituted this rule, and to be fair, it's helped the referees keep order. But we can't in good conscience continue to enforce it in such an ironclad manner."

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Of course they anticipated this scenario when they crafted this rule -- and when they amended it. They drew and redrew the line and Amare and Boris knowingly crossed it, end of story. Your excuse making simply doesn't fly here.

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Originally Posted by Kevin Blackistone

That doesn't do anything to compensate for the time lost, just the money.

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I'd rather Horry get off scotfree than the Suns get punished in this situation. If it means that much to you for my proposed remedy to work that Horry gets punished somehow, someway even if he retires to escape a suspension, then that's my solution.

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Originally Posted by Spider TX

You act like that was a stupid move when they were going to check on the REAL MVP of the league. Yeah is wasn't thought out when they got up, but take out the small guy who is the best player on any team, and I GUARANTEE players get up and do the same thing every time. If you don't think so, you are an idiot as well.

I blame the childish Robert Horry for all of this. If he wasn't throwing this little fit about his team falling apart at the end, he doesn't lay that cheap shot out on Nash, but instead, he still has never grown up as a man and does it anyway, because he can't handle when is team choked.

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This is Sig worthy for stupidity. Blame Robert Horry because he obviously walked over to the Suns bench, picked up Stoudemire and Diaw, and carried them on the court.

Take your externalist ass somewhere else and blame others for your own personal stupidity.

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Originally Posted by Spider TX

I have only slammed him, and maybe one others, but that's just because they are more clueless and idiotic than most others.

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"one others"?

Go back and read your posts. All you do is call Spurs fans "stupid" and "idiotic".


Your generalizations are worse than your arguments! :lol

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Originally Posted by George Gervin's Afro

You blame Horry for your young stupid players running on to the court? Had they stayed Horry would have been done for 2 games.. Can't handle his team choking? And this coming from a franchise that has accomplished ZERO? :lol

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No I said I blame Horry for being the worthless, childish prick that he is and laying out the league's REAL MVP because he couldn't handle the situation. I blame the players for wanting to check on their own guy and making a mistake than anyone else on any team would have made.

You need to read closer next time so I do not need to repeat myself again.

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Originally Posted by Findog

I'd rather Horry get off scotfree than the Suns get punished in this situation.

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:lol

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Originally Posted by Findog

I'd rather Horry get off scotfree than the Suns get punished in this situation. If it means that much to you for my proposed remedy to work that Horry gets punished somehow, someway even if he retires to escape a suspension, then that's my solution.

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Why don't you want the Suns to get punished for breaking the rules? Is it because they are playing the Spurs and not the Mavs? You can't let personal feelings dictate how you enforce the rules if you are the league. It has to be consistent no matter who the teams are.

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Originally Posted by Findog

I'd rather Horry get off scotfree than the Suns get punished in this situation. If it means that much to you for my proposed remedy to work that Horry gets punished somehow, someway even if he retires to escape a suspension, then that's my solution.

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the rule has been effective because of how it has been enforced.

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Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

Of course they anticipated this scenario when they crafted this rule -- and when they amended it. They drew and redrew the line and Amare and Boris knowingly crossed it, end of story. Your excuse making simply doesn't fly here.

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How did they anticipate this scenario?

And where did they redraw the line? I thought the League has been consistent on this: break the rule, it's a 1-gamer and $35K in lost funds.

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Originally Posted by Spider TX

No I said I blame Horry for being the worthless, childish prick that he is and laying out the league's REAL MVP because he couldn't handle the situation. I blame the players for wanting to check on their own guy and making a mistake than anyone else on any team would have made.

You need to read closer next time so I do not need to repeat myself again.

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Yet everyone else on the team didn't make the mistake. Only Stoudemire and Diaw.


You're done... NEXT!!

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Originally Posted by Spider TX

No I said I blame Horry for being the worthless, childish prick that he is and laying out the league's REAL MVP because he couldn't handle the situation. I blame the players for wanting to check on their own guy and making a mistake than anyone else on any team would have made.

You need to read closer next time so I do not need to repeat myself again.

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That's the silliest argument ever...

Yes, Amare is suddenly the team doctor and needs to check on Nash...

no, the only thing Amare needs to check is his emotional maturity.

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Originally Posted by Kevin Blackistone

This is Sig worthy for stupidity. Blame Robert Horry because he obviously walked over to the Suns bench, picked up Stoudemire and Diaw, and carried them on the court.

Take your externalist ass somewhere else and blame others for your own personal stupidity.

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I'm not even sure why I respond to you because it gets me nowhere, but I put the blame for seperate aspects in multiple places.

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Originally Posted by MadDog73

That's the silliest argument ever...

Yes, Amare is suddenly the team doctor and needs to check on Nash...

no, the only thing Amare needs to check is his emotional maturity.

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No, you moron, every team would have players running up to their fallen guy had this happened to them, it's instinct. The fact that you think that nobody would ever go to him shows how little you know. And this response from you might actually be one of the worst I've ever seen.

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Why don't you want the Suns to get punished for breaking the rules?

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I do want them to get punished -- I don't see it as a problem to roll it over to 07/08. As a basketball fan, I want to watch two of the three best remaining teams go at it fullstrength.

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Is it because they are playing the Spurs and not the Mavs?

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For what it's worth, I am actually rooting for San Antonio in this series. And this makes it easier for the Spurs to advance. I just wish they had to do it with Phoenix at full-strength. You have little to no margin for error in a series against San Antonio. In a deadlocked series, you can't afford to give the Spurs a game.

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How did they anticipate this scenario?

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When they amended the rule.

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And where did they redraw the line?

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They changed the rule from "stay off the court, period" to "stay in the vicinity of the bench" after Patrick Ewing was suspended for having a foot partially on the court. So they have made their exceptions. The rule will not be rewritten again to allow a player to run 30 feet from the bench. That's stupid.

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Originally Posted by Findog

I do want them to get punished -- I don't see it as a problem to roll it over to 07/08. As a basketball fan, I want to watch two of the three best remaining teams go at it fullstrength.



For what it's worth, I am actually rooting for San Antonio in this series. And this makes it easier for the Spurs to advance. I just wish they had to do it with Phoenix at full-strength. You have little to no margin for error in a series against San Antonio. In a deadlocked series, you can't afford to give the Spurs a game.

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So in your scenario would you postpone all suspensions until the following season for any violation of the rules, or just the "running on the court" rule?

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Originally Posted by Spider TX

No, you moron, every team would have players running up to their fallen guy had this happened to them, it's instinct. The fact that you think that nobody would ever go to him shows how little you know. And this response from you might actually be one of the worst I've ever seen.

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take it from Spurs fans - the Spurs team sees Ginobili get cheap shotted and sprawled out on the court in virtually every game. Yet, not once has a Spurs player gotten up and ran on the court trying to start shit. I think if you really want to look at it, Bell started the confrontation by charging Horry. If he doesn't do that, you probably can't call that a confrontation and nobody would have been suspended.

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Originally Posted by Kevin Blackistone

So in your scenario would you postpone all suspensions until the following season for any violation of the rules, or just the "running on the court" rule?

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If a guy runs out onto the court and lands a punch, even if that guy happens to be your main guy and not a scrub, serve the suspension immediately. If a guy wanders 5 yards out onto the court and does nothing to escalate the situation, then what's the harm in letting him serve his suspension in November?

"Wanders."

Yeah, Amare was just strolling about. He didn't even know there was a game being played.

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Originally Posted by Kevin Blackistone

take it from Spurs fans - the Spurs team sees Ginobili get cheap shotted and sprawled out on the court in virtually every game. Yet, not once has a Spurs player gotten up and ran on the court trying to start shit. I think if you really want to look at it, Bell started the confrontation by charging Horry. If he doesn't do that, you probably can't call that a confrontation and nobody would have been suspended.

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No, not once has a Spurs player ever gotten up because they know Ginobili is really only flopping and acting anyways. Any team he actually gets hit it is very warranted. And we all know TD doesnt have any fight in him anyway, so we would never have to worry about seeing him come off the bench, unless it was to complain with that dumbfounded look about something.

Doctors say you should take a 30 minute constitutional for your health.

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Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

"Wanders."

Yeah, Amare was just strolling about. He didn't even know there was a game being played.

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He was checking on Nash. And did he do anything to escalate? Nope.

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He was checking on Nash.

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No, you said he was wandering about 5 feet. Why do you have to change your story?

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Originally Posted by Findog

If a guy runs out onto the court and lands a punch, even if that guy happens to be your main guy and not a scrub, serve the suspension immediately. If a guy wanders 5 yards out onto the court and does nothing to escalate the situation, then what's the harm in letting him serve his suspension in November?

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And that's probably what the amended rule will generally say. May not be worded and interpreted exactly like that, but when they redo it, it will most likely be close to this so no other team gets the shaft like the Suns again.

There is no reason to amend the rule further. Players should be less stupid.

I said "wandering" in a response to a hypothetical scenario about how and when I'd punish rules infractions that occur during a playoff series. You attached that phrase to Amare's actions, not me.

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Originally Posted by Findog

I said "wandering" in a response to a hypothetical scenario about how and when I'd punish rules infractions that occur during a playoff series. You attached that phrase to Amare's actions, not me.

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So why bring up that scenario at all if it doesn't apply here?

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Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

There is no reason to amend the rule further. Players should be less stupid.

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You don't get it though, the rule WILL BE amended, and you can bet anything you own on that fact.

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Originally Posted by Spider TX

No, not once has a Spurs player ever gotten up because they know Ginobili is really only flopping and acting anyways. Any team he actually gets hit it is very warranted.

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So, it's not just "warranted," it's "very warranted." :lol

I think spiders actually have bigger brains than this guy...:lmao

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Originally Posted by Findog

If a guy runs out onto the court and lands a punch, even if that guy happens to be your main guy and not a scrub, serve the suspension immediately. If a guy wanders 5 yards out onto the court and does nothing to escalate the situation, then what's the harm in letting him serve his suspension in November?

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It gets very dangerous (as in to the league's reputation as a fair sporting event) when you start allowing certain suspensions to occur next season but then others have to occur in the playoffs. That's not being fair or consistent, if the violation warrants a suspension it should be served immediately.

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Originally Posted by Spider TX

You don't get it though, the rule WILL BE amended, and you can bet anything you own on that fact.

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I don't think it's Spurs fans having trouble understanding rules.

Nobody cares to go check on a guy when all he is really doing is flopping. They know he's fine and just trying to serve his only purpose.

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Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

So why bring up that scenario at all if it doesn't apply here?

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Who said it doesn't apply? You're simply picking nits over a word you believe I used to describe Amare's actions. I take it you object to somehow characterizing his actions in leaving the bench as nonchalant, which "wandering" would imply.

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Originally Posted by Spider TX

You don't get it though, the rule WILL BE amended, and you can bet anything you own on that fact.

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Why? What would the wording for that be. There is enough ambiguity in the rule now to actually make exceptions. Amare and Boris simply went far outside that boundary.

So you're new rule will say "Players can run 20 feet onto the floor during an altercation if ____________"

Please fill in the blank for all of us.

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Originally Posted by Spider TX

No, not once has a Spurs player ever gotten up because they know Ginobili is really only flopping and acting anyways. Any team he actually gets hit it is very warranted. And we all know TD doesnt have any fight in him anyway, so we would never have to worry about seeing him come off the bench, unless it was to complain with that dumbfounded look about something.

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HAHA, that's fucking great. TD has no fight in him... damn you are one dumb ass fuck. Wait... Come on, surely you're just a bored ass who's trolling, nobody could be as stupid as you seem.

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Originally Posted by Findog

Who said it doesn't apply?

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Originally Posted by Findog

You attached that phrase to Amare's actions, not me.

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So, now you are attaching that phrase to Amare's actions.

Take a time out and come back when you make up your mind.

So the Suns owner is a whiner too. Anyone surprised?